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• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So last night I'm helping my WW pack boxes for her move this weekend and she asks me if I will be her first dinner guest. She also invited me to Thanksgiving at her restaurant (she gets so much in comp dollars each month). And she made a point to wait to go upstairs to bed until I was ready, too (I was doing a lot of laundry of hers for said move).</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On Monday night she got a message from OM on her cell. But as of this morning at 11:15 a.m. she had not returned the call (at least not on her cell).</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The last few days she's been saying things like "your house" and "your fridge" and "your *insert any piece of joint property here*" ... as if she didn't own it, too. (Except, of course, the stuff she's taking to her apartment is hers or ours.) Then she talks of what WE'RE sending our families and friends for Christmas.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Today was tough. She was going through CDs and grabbing stuff she wanted. I ran a record store for about 10 years so we have a couple thousand. There were many that we both wanted and she would ask. All I did was sweetly say "You may have it." (Except I put my foot down for Boston "Boston" ... whippit DOES have boundaries, you know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course, I don't consder any of these things related in any way nor am I taking them for anything other than what they are. But I do sometimes quietly question her motives (without trying to analyze them much) and then I smile at her.

<small>[ November 09, 2002, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

Add to the list:
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• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yesterday afternoon she took possession of her keys to the new apartment and she called me immediately after. I figured she would. No biggie. Then, later from work, she called to ask me if wanted to go look at when she got done after 2 a.m.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I checked her cell this morning. She called OM late last night and chatted for about 15 minutes.</font></li>

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<small>[ November 09, 2002, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

Another observation ...
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• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She's not taking a single photograph with the both of us in it.</font></li>

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So what's the sound of one hand clapping? I dunno, but this is the sound one person talking to himself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Update on photos front ...

She's taking them all now.

So, what you do is remember what we have said about plan A.

You run the plan you have outlined. You treat her nice, because people tend to like you more if you treat them nice. You judge how you are doing by how you run the plan, not what she says/does.

You remember than on weekends many of us have things to do, like dig a trench in the back yard for eletrical conduit for the future carport I will build, but since it started getting dark, I came in and looked you up to see if you were behaving your self. Weekends are often dead, don't take it personal.

I would go along with all the plans she has, it sounds like it isn't real for her yet. Drop hints about how you would be happier if she moved home, but be careful how you say things.

Plan A, every day.

Also, ask her if you get a key to the apt, for when she invites you over, you can let yourself in while she is still in bed. Wink when you ask, and see what she says.
( no, I am not kidding, if she says no, you can laugh and say " well, I had to try." )
SS

<small>[ November 09, 2002, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

SS ... no offense taken. Just wanted to bump before it got lost and have a little fun at the same time, too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> In any case, thanks for checking up on me. I do truly appreciate it.

Sometimes it's hard to know how the plan is running without the "what she says/does" part. But, of course, using her as the yardstick now is pure folly. Really, I am just rolling with it all. It's been a difficult few days to keep up appearances so I come here.

So you were out laying pipe, huh?

<small>[ November 09, 2002, 09:31 PM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

So far the move has gone well. Doing well getting my WW set up in her place. Last night there was a breakthrough. She stayed here at the house and the sheets were cold. Reached my arm over to her to pull her close to me to warm her and she immediately turned to me. We hugged passsionately and asked me if we were going to be okay. She also admitted to me for the first time that she's scared ... which I've known all along. I also know that she is seeing for the first time how what we're doing is crazy ... as she looks around our house and sees it nearly empty with mismatched second hand furniture (she has all the nice stuff). She sctually said she feels bad ... especially after how much I've helped her make her place cozy.

SS ... didn't even have to ask for keys. She asked me to take the spare set!

I'm rolling with this ... OM is still in the picture in some way. This is what it is and there's a long way to go and lot yet still to be decided. But for those of you having trouble with Plan A ... sort it out, keep trying. It can be pretty powerful when you get it right.

Last night was her first night at the new place. We went and got some take out and on the way back she asked if I would stay with her ... new place and all and then she said that Lucy (the cat I bought for her 9 years ago) would be scared without me there. It was really pretty sweet. Then this morning we went to her court date (click here to learn more) and breakfast. I still had a few things to fix at her place and she wanted a nap. She asked if I would stay for the nap, but I surprised her. I declined. But I said I would give her a wake up call so she wouldn't be late for work and then come back later to finish fixing her stuff.

Holding off on the letter for now ... it's a gut thing. Don't know yet if I'm winning the war, but I took a few battles this past weekend!

W,
( I still want to say coguy)
If you can keep from LB'ing, and meet her needs, I feel you have a good chance. She wants to spend time with you, and that is better than most here. I still can't figure out why she wanted to move out. Hard plan A, don't stop now.

SS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by still seeking:
I still can't figure out why she wanted to move out. Hard plan A, don't stop now.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This has me scatching my head, too. But what can I do? The only thing I can think of is that she made up her mind and doesn't feel she has a choice without looking bad. And, perhaps, the fog is burning away ... slowly. I will say, too, that she and I both agreed that we needed to do something differently if we were ever going to save us. However, it hasn't been until recently (the email snooping incident of a couple of weeks ago) that her armor has really begun to weaken. I believe she fully intended this to be her exit. Tonight will be the test, as that place will be pretty empty with just her and the cat. I expect her to call.

As I sat there in her apartment this weekend, two things kept popping into my mind as I looked around. 1. If OM spends any time there he'll be surrounded by pictures of me and my wife. 2. If he eats at my table, there I'll be ... looking at him. If he sits on my couch, there I'll be ... looking at him. It's the first time I've felt my WW and I have both taken steps forward at the same time since this began to surface.

Ain't no way I'm stopping now. Gonna pull back a little bit and let her pursue me ... because I think she probably will.

Not trying to figure all of this out, but here's what I know:

OM was over at her apartment on Wednesday. I know this because I drove by on my way home from work and lots of light were on and she was at work. I drove by again later and only the hall light was on. I probably shouldn't have done it, but I did and I gotta live with it. I should have been more upset but all I could think of was him sitting there with all my stuff and how uncomfortable that must be.

Wednesday night she called me after she got done with work to see how my day was and to ask for a wakeup call. She also came by the house while I was at work to play with the dog. Left me a very nice note.

Last night she brought me dessert from her restaurant. We chatted a while and had a good time. I mentioned I was planning to take the dog to the dog park on Monday and she asked to come along. Then ... as I was walking her out she stopped and leaned for a smooch (on the cheek) and hug. It was clumsy and tenatative just like what people who are first dating do.

Again ... it is what it is, but it's more than it's been in a long time.

Whippit-

I've been reading your ongoing dialog and am glad to see the progress you're making! You've showed a good measure of constraint so far and it appears as though it's paying off for you. I was SO non-functional for several weeks after the news. Keep up the good work!

Thank you, litchfield. I was a sobbing wad of loser for a good number of weeks, too. But I got it all out of the way before D-Day. I was ready for the inevitable ... as ready as I could be, anyway.

<small>[ November 15, 2002, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

In the nine days since my WW moved out she has called me every day. She has stopped by four times ... including once to do her laundry. I finally gave -- more like left -- her the letter yesterday. I assume she's read it but i don't know. She did call me after she had plenty of time to read it. This life we lead is quite a puzzler.

A struggle between dependence and independence. Does this mean that OM is out of the picture? Doubtful. Or are the rules of the same game changing? Maybe. Is it just the same game? Probably.

In any case, it's frustrating. In any case, my W is hurting and I want it to stop. In any case, my plan continues. In any case, I love her.

<small>[ November 19, 2002, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

Hi W,
It is indeed a puzzler.

You seem to be doing as well as one can do in the spot you are in. I admire your courage, and I hope you can keep it up.

I hope you make it through the bad days without too much damage. I know it's hard.

Thanks for the on going dialoge, I don't have time to post to everyone every day, but I care.

SS

W,

You seem to be doing great! How do you do it? I know your signature line is for the most part your advice to everybody but what has kept you steady? How have you restrained yourself? What's your secret? You knew what you had to do and you are doing it, plain and simple. How do you stay on track?

Be well.

SS ... thanks for keeping tabs. I'm not expecting any replies to this ongoing dialogue (monologue?) but I appreciate it when I get them. This place, in a way, has become like family in that we're all separated by distance and it's not always possible to talk to one another every day (or every few days, even). But there's a bond that keeps it all together and you know there's love.

UC ... thank you. I've been at this a long time. My D-Day was in October but I knew something was terribly wrong since July. So I came here and read and lurked and implemented what I learned. And I screwed up a lot along the way and learned from that, too. I sought advice and support from my family and a close friend. And the thing that stuck out to me time and again was the notion of addressing myself first as the key to unlocking my future ... whether or not that future included my W.

The thought of not having her by my side forever is still scary to me, but to be a whole person I had to reconnect to my core as if she would not be there. The realization that I cannot count on my W to contribute, or even care, about my happiness wasn't the hard part. (In fact, during the eight weeks my wife outwardly hostile toward me awakened me more than before). The hard part was standing up to my fear and facing it and doing something about it. The more I do it the better I get at it and that carries over into all aspects of my life. And I still screw up and I still have hard says. But I brush myself off and get right back in the game.

Then, once I was diagnosed depressive, I educated myself on my disease and how it affects families and relationships. I opened myself up to treatment because I knew if I didn't I wouldn't survive this. My D-Day was a week after I started my meds.

I think the thing that keeps me going is that I try to learn something new about myself every day because that means there's growth. I don't always succeed ... and there's growth in that, too. A couple of months ago if you asked me how I was doing I would have answered "I'm doing pretty well for a man whose marriage is failing." Now, if you ask me the same question, I answer, "I'm doing very well." I answer that way because I am and it's much further along than I thought I would be. And it's much further along than my wife is right now ... but that part is up to her.

After yesterday I know two things. 1. My wife has read the letter. (She hasn't said so, but point two will reveal how I know.) 2. She called me about six times between 4 pm and 9 pm yesterday. Each call was about little things - she was making smoothies, the movie she was watching was boring, her dad sent her bagels in the mail, she bought a blender and some glassware, etc. But she also had a horrible phone conversation with her mom and she wanted to vent (my MIL is having a hard time biting her tongue and being supportive of her daughter). I believe she's reaching out to me. And I am being careful.

Hey W,
One of the hardest things to take here is the people that come and say " poor me, things are bad and there is nothing I can do about it."

You realized that you COULD do something and you are doing it. We can never change the other person, we can only change us and hope our change is reflected in them, and you seem to understand that.

I am glad she made the calls, it does seem as though she has read the letter. Keep up with the plan A, it is doing wonders for you and it looks like it has some affect on her.

Again, I am sorry for the bad parts, but glad you are copeing.

SS

SS: I agree with you on the people seemingly interested only in self-pity. We all know how important that can be to our healing, but it must be only a fraction of what we do for ourselves during this. From the outset I knew that I was not a victim, because being a victim means I wasn't involved in creating my own life (existentially speaking) ... that I have no accountability. And that simply isn't true. And I guess that's what upsets me about some of the BSs here. We're surrounded by people who believe they are not accountable for their own behavior because they're "in love," so how can we possibly live without accepting our own share of the responsibility? Thank you, but I would rather participate in my life than have it merely happen to me. I played that game and I got tired of losing.