Thanks Gib, ... Just awakened from a nightmare where I was at a church class and my parents barged in the class.. looking for me, it was an evening class... b/c they could not get me on the phone... now this is something they very well might do- but have not... then proceeded to start arguing in front of the classroom when i did not get up immediiately and leave considering they thought I should be home with my kids instead of at the church spirituality clas.s... one of the classes was on surviving divorce, I was choosing which ourse to be in that night... well my parents thought me and the kids should be home having bedtime or bath or whatever... so they had searched me out and found me and preceeded to yell at me in front of 15 or so adults how I should be doing things THEIR WAY.

I am so tired of this... and they still think they are right... and I am wrong and I am not honoring them as my parents when I tell them to BUTT ouT... excuse me... sometimes trying to help is oging to far, and taking over someone else's choices and responsibilities,

and of course tonight they wanted to know... why doesn't jiim take the kids to a haircut, he needs the money for beer they sd?

UGH! I am so mad at them... it is not the haircut, it is the pt that regardless of me asking them NOT TO DO IT, they ignore me and do whatever they damn well please... with my kids.

OK, vent.. thanks GIB... sorry I felt the need to explain this again.. the nightmare mkind of made me think there is a problem... I am 34 yrs old. It reminds me of a job I had whre there was no personal phone calls... conisdered the norm... well my parents had the number... don't remember if I gave it to them for emergencies or what.. but would call on a regular basis and even talk to my employers about personal things about me without my permission.... etc. and CoMPletely embarrass me and make me look ridiculous.. my coworkers did not have overconverned parents doing this...

Also tonight my dad told me a story about when I was a child how I refused to pick up blocks for 3 hrs while he tried to make me in my room... and says I am still the same.... well great dad, only thing different is now I am an adult and you don't make me do things your way now... OK?

The drive thing is making me irate. I want to call his dad and or grandparents and find out if they are encouraging this...? DOn't know if I should or not, as they are all in denial over his addiction.... just kind of blow it off... like oh yea, he drinks a lot.. his dad anyway.. not to mention the pot.... and never mind he hasn't had a job for a yr.. they just don't notice that stuff...

TOnight he told several lies to the counselor, bold face.. I am not even sure if he knows it... he insists he has given me 18k in child support this yr... yea right... I will add it up , and it is not even a third of that.. if that , maybe a fourth...

What else??

Just aggravated,... feeling like my parents are nonsupportive unless everything is their way... they just don't get it? I want to decide when my kids get haircuts and not be criticiazed and told i am a BAD MOM, b/c I did not do it on my mom's timetable... AGHHHHHH! OK, I am screaming now.

My ws is clueless... he was drinking tonight when I called, ... I was tempted to let him watch ys tomorrow instead of my mom.. but they are better off with my mom.... and thye are trying to help in lots of ways b/c I am a single parent.

Also I am afraid my ws, will just take off with the kids driving to atlanta... see he suddently gets whims... and even if he doesn't have 3enough money for gas.. dad , his dad.. will wire him the monye half way through the drive, so why worry , right?

He has gotten a dui in mississippi, about 5 yrs ago when we caravaned b/c he had been over there a while and I came to get some remeianing furniture out of storage and he drove back with me... he was arrested on part of the dirve and had sped way ahead of us... drunk as a skunk...

I KNOW he would not make the drive completely sober. I doubt there has been a day he has been sober in ages.. parts of days yes... but a whole day?

He resents this... I just care about his welfare and the kids... especially the kids.. if he wants to drive drunk I can't stop him.. but can stop him from driving me or the kids... as much as possible. I have not kept the kids from visiting pretty much every other wkend.. b/c I want them all to have a relatiosnhip... but he insists this is his right and does not want alcohoilsm raised as a pt.. though my older son is witness to his drinking when he visits.. younger one is too young to really know, etc. he is 4.

I am feeling exasperated.. will go back to bed.. I need rest... it was hard to fall asleep and now a nightmare about my parents CONTROL issues.

It makes me want to move to EUROPE, ALSASKA or Antartica...

Funny, I know my ws sees me as trying to control his world and wants to run from me as well.... he can do what he want, just not with my kids... well he seems to think he is rational , capable , father.. etc. but actions do not correpsond with words....

So- question mbers? Do I tell his parents... he really is not capable of making that drive sober? Will they run to tell him I called, so that he can hate me morE???? And hate me for saying it? What if he steals them for the drive???? This is good reason to have temp. orders in place... but he has wanted to take them there for a yr and I have continually refused.. I think it is a big show and deep down he knows the answer is no.

And true... what the heck is this all aobut for a an unemplyed man who can't pay child support? Are his parents offereing to foot the bill for the trip, and begging him to take the kids over, as he says... ???? are they nuts?

I offered to caravan and stay with his stepmom and he will not see that happening.... he doesn't want to make that drive with me, even in sepearte cars!!!

Topie, thanks for the idea... perhpas his parents will buy train or bus or planefare... they have the money.... and it would b e much safer? Maybe I will suggest that one....

the grandparents are too old to travel here probably.. I mean they cld and the grandmother did a few yrs ago, but the grandfather won't and his dad and stepmom could, but prob. won't... fact is that they prob don't care enough - who knows? I am rambling....

Hugs and thanks, HONEY

Bramble..

Thinking aobut the button thing... well in my mind, he has already abandoned me.. and truth is... I don't think driving kids to see gparents... is ok b/c of drinking situation. WS wants to say that it is not a problem... of course he can take kids over there... never mind his dad's comment abuot stealing the kids, either, right?- and forming residency over there.. not to mention he is unemployed and very unstable... and recently got evicited.... all the while ignoring this reality back in denial land.

Ws of course shows at counseling dressed nicely and not at all looking like the bum he is.... lately. He says he had an interview today.... SO? He is concerned with the image he projects to the counselor and counselor even emphathizes with poor jim and how I won't let him take kids to atlanta.. that is a reasonable request, right? HA.

Anyway, we did not have enough time to discuss.. but at end of sesssion that was what ws wanted resolved. He did say the counselor was ok , and that he might go back... we'll see...

One thing counselor mentioned is that we can't change each toher and that we need to stop arguing... ws was attacking me throughout session and I did defend myself and get a bit angry, but mostly I sd... I am willing to change for the better, and would like him to be willing as well.

we mentioned everything he could bad about me to throw the man off.... continually throwing in insults.. like I beat up the ow, but he doesn't think I would do this if he got antoher gf???? well I won't take him back if he gets antoher gf? so his loss at this pt???? right.

I am sick of it, and why does alcoholism have to be ruining my marriage b/c I have to tell him he can't drive kids there... I am crazily tempted to say what the hell.. drive them there... and I guess that is the button he is so desperately trying to push... getting me to go against my safety standards for kids and get back into denial with him over his drinking....

Well, not happening. I always knew he couldn't make such a trip.. the wkend visits are at times questionable... why I allow them , b/c you never know when he is going to do somthing strange bc of the drinking.. so this is big LB, and so he is mad and angry at me.

Mainly wanted to mention, I guess he might not want to be with me while I say he can't do such things as it angers him so??? SO what to do???

Thanks, H

Honey - I read this and I am so - oh I don't know !!! I don't want to make you angry and I do support you - but first of all I think you need to stop - stand outside of the circle - look at your marriage - Right now you do not have a marriage - in any way shape of form - you have three children basically - For one - you have got to protect those children from him - I know he is their father and I know he is your husband but right now he isn't acting like either one of those things. Do Not let him take the children - what if he does decide not to bring them back ??? I mean he has nothing really keeping him where he lives now other than you and the boys - Right?? He could very well pack up for the 16 hr. drive and not come back - How do you know??? Really stop and think about it - maybe you should go to court and stop him - !! OK now about the parents thing that is petty - sorry but it is - I mean they are trying to help right ??? But maybe they see you as their child who has been hurting for so long - and they are trying to help you because you are in an unhealthy situation for you and for your boys... I mean getting a haircut - no big deal - I assume they paid for it ?? And they just want their grandchildren to look good - !! So if they are trying to run your life right now maybe because in their eyes - you are not doing a very good job - I know you are trying but you said that it is hard - you are overwhelmed and I believe me can totally feel for you in the same situation but I do it all myself - I don't ask anyone for help - Yes they offer sometimes - but I try to arrange it so I can do it myself - and when I can't I get help but I don't get mad at them if they overstep their boundaries - because they are helping me - they do not have to - they choose to !!!! I think in respect to your parents - and you are not going to like this but they are treating you like a child because you are acting like a child to them !!! I can see you stomping your feet and yelling they are my boys.... You have got to set boundaries for yourself - stop trying to fix Jim - he isn't going to get fixed until he admits he is broken - no matter how much you want it or your boys want it - or any of us want it for you...... You and you alone can make the changes in your life... Go to court - set up visitations maybe if the court knows he has a drinking problem they will make him have supervised visits and maybe that will give him the kick in the butt that he needs to admit he has a problem... You have got to protect those kids - who cares if you lb Jim - those are your children - they cannot protect themselves only you can do that for them - who cares about his manhood, or his fatherhood - you have to think about the safety of the boys - It is time that you grew up and took responsibility of the situation and go to court - make him face the consequences of his actions - make him change - stop hoping and praying that he will - stop bickering with him - Stop being so afraid that if you make him mad he is going to leave - at this point does it really matter - the only that matters is that you are their mother - they can depend on no one other than you - you have to set an example - YOU have to be the grownup !! Get the courts involved - Protect them before he does take them away - Just think what is keeping him where you are now??? The boys????? Good Luck... It is now time to take charge of your life back from everyone else - !!!

Hi All... that think I am too worried about the haircut... i admit it is a little deal... but seriously... I have had this talk at least 5 times... before with my parents.. no haircuts without asking me. I don't like the way they get it done, I don't like the self righteous way they do it etc. Seriously, this is codependent behavior and overstepping of boundaries.. the reason I have trouble with my parents... enough sd.

Thanks, H

Hi Honey,

I'd like to respond to this but its gonna have to be later tonight. I'm trying to get some work done, since I'm totally behind after being out of work most of this week due to my own health problems and my daughter's ear infection!

Anyway, I do agree, the haircut thing is serious, because I think it is one of many small symptoms of a huge problem.

I'll post more later.

Thanks for the reply..BR- I am busy too! I appreciate your alanon thoughts on this! Thanks for taking the time to think about it.

Thanks, HONEY

Hi Honey,

You've got several big problems to deal with here.

First and most serious is your children's safety and your relationship with them.

I think it is very possible and likely, from everything you have described over the months, that your husband has every intention of taking the kids and not returning (and probably fleeing with the kids completely drunk). You absolutely must not let that happen.

I know $$ is a problem for you. But many attorneys offer an initial consultation for free. Pick up your phone book and start calling - go to your free consultation and ask questions about your legal options regarding this situation.

Information is POWER. Start collecting yours, so you know your options and can choose wisely.

I don't know if you have to file for divorce or not, an attorney can tell you. But you need to get a motion filed that keeps your husband from leaving the state with the kids. I suspect, that if you tell the judge that your husband has been having multiple affairs, that you have been separated for X amount of time, and that he has NO job, been evicted already once, is an alcoholic (use any and all proof including his DUI), and no family here....that you can convince the judge that your husband is a flight risk. Any attorney types out there reading this? Maybe some of you can jump in and give better general advice.

I know this is scary sounding. But you MUST protect your children. It will be much harder and much more expensive for you to get your children back from out of state. If Texas is like NJ, Honey, it may mean that you have 2 options: 1. Let him take the kids, or 2. file for divorce and then file for support and custody and a motion to keep him from taking the kids out of state.

My husband's xOW took her kids and fled the state recently (we know this from the PI and attornies who are trying to find her). There's a warrant out for her arrest as a result...but that doesn't do much good does it...when she has no reason to come back to NJ?

I wonder what your husband's motivation in going to counseling with you.....could it be that he wants to appease you long enough to let him take the kids?

Frankly, I'd call his bluff. My husband threatened me with a court order to let him take the kids to see OW. I hired an attorney and started building a case to protect my kids. My husband never did....and in fact, signed a letter stating he agreed not to take the kids near her. He knew it was that, or have me request a motion for full psych evaluations on all three of us (me, him and the OW).

Your husband is probably too darn broke to hire an attorney. He's not got money to come up with a retainer I'm sure. Get your ducks in a row Honey, he won't have a chance if you do this right.

That doesn't mean that he won't just up and take the kids though....so you need to be very careful.

Ok, now i have to go again for a bit...and I didn't even get to your whole parents mess. I'll write more later tonight if I can!

I do think the counseling is seperate from the trip to Atlanta... I just think it is the Holidays and he really wants to visit and that... he is trying to get my ok to visit relatives.

Well, I did bravely muster up my spirits and strength and call his father and ask if his dad was encouraging jim to make the drive... well , dad sd they would love a visit... but, ... when I mentioned the dad.. IN DENIAL most of the time dad... that j would not be making the drive sober, and that was a very unrealistic expectation and that I do not want grandparents, grt grandparents.. barred from kids etc. but that safety,... SAFETY is the issue here....

Anyway father in law agreed to discourage him from the visits... and tell him that it is not a good time to do this, considering our seperation...

I also told fil a little more info about how bad off his son, my ws is.... and I think he actually heard me... granted he is in more denila than me... but it is hard to deny he is not working and is not being resonsible... by any means...

OK, I don't think the trip will be something he can do... fil is not sending money for treip he says, and will now discourage visit...

Anyway.... I have talked to him today and he has agreed to go to counseling on monday again... we seem to have made some progress anyway....

I do have the legal advice already and I know what I can do if I have to, and have the people to do it....

Thanks for the advice, I will definitely preceed with caution... I truly don't think stealing the kids is what he has in mind right now... I think somewhere deep down he wants his whole family back... but can he be the man we need???? This is the million dollar question.

Through my changes can he change as well... I am willing to go first and love this man as much as can in the situation we are in... he claims to be working hard and about to be employed on a more regular basis though not on a high pay basisi... more of a low pay, but hey a steady job??? !

Thanks for replying..> Bramble I do take this seriously.. I just think I know these people and I do not think stealing the kids is going to happen... for one, I don't think he or his family want to take care of them like me and my family do...

Thanks, H

Honey - Why would you trust the father in law ?? I thought you said he doesn't think his son has a problem?? Wouldn't he call his son and let him know that you called him?? I would think that would give him all the more reason to want to go.. I agree with Bramble Rose - You have got to get into court to put something in writing about your children-- You say you don't think he will steal the kids - but then again you didn't think he would have an affair either?? You have to protect your children - they have to become your top priority not your marriage - if they are in any kind of danger with the husband - because you keep saying safety issues - drinnking etc. Could you live with yourself if something happened???

Maw, Just thought I would reply.. we have been through this before... I am not ready nor do I want to file... despite the craziness of the situatiaon... filing would only make it less likely to work things out in my situation...

Frankly, My h does not want to steal the kids, and honestly, I made great progress with my fil the other morning when we talked.. he knows.>> KNOWS his son is an alcoholic/ addict and struggling, he is not stupid... he just likes to DENY it. If he tells, I figured for safety's sake... that will be ok... just another lb in my book of them... that is why I have not contacted in laws lately. I big time lb'd fil a while back b/c father in law.. also a musician type... but an attorney... had a's and also drank a lot in his younger day... I blamed my h's behavior on him... WRONG.. I have since apologized, and now it seems we might even have a chance of our once 10+ yr good relationship again- I do trust him not to hurt me....

I know what I sd about his idea of stealing the kids... I think that is something STUPID this man sd, and I think he KNOWS that... especially as he faces his sons current situation.

Hugs and thanks... I again, am not filing. I appreciate your concern and can see where you are coming from.. however the situation may read here as more threatening than it is.. it is really my H stomping his feet and saying he wants respect and wants his kids to visit his relatives, all reasonable... of course if he was not drinking, YET, he is in DENIAL... of his true problem...
alcoholism.

Thanks for your thoughts- I am sure it sounds worse than it is when you read it, and knowing the people makes it easier for me to know what is safe and what is not! Hugs to you... these used to be my friends/ family... and still are in the seperated way.... that things are...

sad- yes, this was a bunch of venting, and when I am angry I don't typically mention the good pts of these people.

thanks, H

<small>[ March 21, 2005, 12:22 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

Oh, also, Honey, I agree with BR - that the haircut thing is serious - its part of the bigger problem with your parents, which is that they don't respect your boundaries.

How can you not have problems setting boundaries with Jim when you have parents that don't respect your boundaries? They seem to consider it normal to treat you as a child. From what you have said about your mother, she is also verbally abusive to you when you try to set boundaries.

In my life, this is what is wrong with my H's R with his parents - they still treat him like a child, refuse to recognize his boundaries and are verbally abusive to him. I am sure a lot of my H's problems won't be handled until he deals with this aspect of his life. I'm still waiting.

Go girl!
LIR

Thanks Lady In Red:

No, there won't be a drive, in fact I saw J last night and he was kind, nice and spacey... we all know why he was spacey..

Anyway, progress is coming in the R department- despite the drinking, but with it, it is hard to have a mature adult relationship.

Things are better with my parents... my mom is grumbly and a bit pouty, but my dad has calmed her down and convinced her I want to decide when haircuts are.... so she agrees,- she watches my ys, fulltime while I work, so she sees him more than I do... and I know it is a rough job.. in her defense... But I just want to be asked about certain things.. she has issues with lots of stuff.... anyway... I think she will be respectful of this in the future. Did I get an apology for her verbal meanness? No. My dad calmed her down.

I think I learned from her, unfortunately, that I could pout, stomp and get mad.. and get my way... it works for her... but obviously MOST of us don't like to be treated that way.. or even act that way.

I think my dad really babies her- he takes good care of her.. but I do think allows too much even in his relationship .. for her to dish out unacceptable verbal stuff.. or anger at him - she has always done this to me... I always hated it, and then she wonders why we aren't closer? She is the queen of criticism and I think influenced me to tell my ws... he wasn't good enough , etc.

Mom would say.. he's not treating you right , etc. and I wuold go home and say the same to him... Nice of me, right? She got my mind to thinking he was being lazy, and not working hard enough,e tc. While quite possibly true, I didn't need to say it to him in a point blank mean or rude way.. like Mom.

I am truly learning to let go and let God - and release my ws to his higher power.. thank you alanon!

I am sad about his drinking.. and hope and pray he will one day be what he is capable of being, a sober successful contributing member of society, blessed with honesty and integrity in his life.. and hopefully our wonderful family...

He is ultra sensitive and suffers from low self esteem... so this is part of why I do not file... I know it would be a slap in the face. He seems to really want to reconcile deep down, I know it... but can he? Is drinking more important than we are.. it is a LIFESTYLE issue so much so... but I also know I was mean , abusive verbally, etc. due to the drinking issues.. and my crazy way of dealing with them.. confrontational and angry! Did not work...

Talking with fil was great, and I do not think he will reveal the call...

Anyway, thanks for being here.

Honey

Honey - I just thought I would reply not once did I say to file for divorce - I said file something for visitation - or restrictions when it came to the children... I said to put the marriage on the backburner to make the children your top priority... And you are right - I thought that your inlaws were terrible people and that yes your husband was maybe gonna steal your children... You know if someone said that to me I would take him seriously - because he isn't living with me and we are together as a couple - I might not want to think it but it might be the reality of the situation... If you are making more of what he says to you - like the stealing the kids situation -?? Is he really an alcholic?? Does he drink all of the time?? Is he a pass out drunk or is he just a guy who likes to drink on the weekends??? I am sorry if in any way I offended you - But I will tell you from my experience on these boards - divorce and this one - the people who give me the harshest advice is the advice that I take the most and listen to their words carefully... Mimi

Hi Honey,

Sorry it took me so long to get back to you.

Ok, lets talk about boundaries and control and what the difference is.

You've given me some really good juicy examples to outline what I want to say!

Let's start with your parents. It's totally understandable that you are upset with your mother for taking your kids for haircuts despite your specific request that she not do so. However, being angry because she stepped over your boundary is more than a tad misdirected. You see, your mother is NOT responsible for respecting your boundaries. YOU are.

There's nothing wrong with asking her not to do it. There IS something wrong with expecting that your mother will do something differently than she always does. She hasn't changed. Why would she do anything differently?

This is why in Al-Anon we say: Expectations are premeditated resentments.

By asking her not to get the kids hair cut, and then expecting her to do something that she has never done (respect you), you simply set yourself up to be angry and upset.

Also, Honey, setting boundaries does NOT mean changing the other person's behavior, it means changing YOURS. Your boundary wasn't really one at all - you asked your mother to change her behavior, instead of yours. That's really what we call control instead of boundaries.

Now don't get me wrong. Normally, there's nothing wrong with asking someone respect your wishes regarding your children. Normal healthy people respect your position as the mother. Your parents are NOT even close to healthy people.

Asking them to respect your wishes regarding your children is like asking an alcoholic to stop drinking, or a WS to stop the affair, or asking the WIND TO STOP BLOWING! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Unfortunately, I think the haircut issue is simply the tip of a HUGE complex iceberg. I suspect that your parents have alot more to do with your current difficulties than either your husband or his family.

I'll write more about the last paragraph later. I have a sick daughter to put in bed, and my husband is working late tonight since he took care of her this afternoon while I was working!
I'm afraid I'll fall asleep before I get back here tonight, but I want to give you some more things to think about.

Thanks BR-

Very insightful... perhaps I think in my own crazy way that if I keep asking, it might happen?

Perhaps growing up with a MOM who one day loved me and was kind and the next went a little crazy on anger towards me... taught me that if I was just good enough she wouldn't treat me that way? But truth is, I did figure Out I could never be good enough for my mom....

Don't know how growing up around her... made me attracted to alcoholic types???

Both my parents are stone cold sober, but there is alcoholism in the past.... my mom's grandfather... and maybe some unknown about in my dad's family... there was at least an uncle of my dad's.

I know I was always attracted to wild types and was one myself for a while.... still like to drink, just not on a regular out of control basis....

Anyway, I guess I don't have the addiction gene... or something... maybe it is my morality, I don't know???? But I hate that I like alcoholic's... and still do in a sense... like the laid back hippy types.... or the partying intellectuals... that was my scene.

Anyway... I am thinking on what you wrote, and I do know I can't expect my mom to be different... or my spouse... or whatever he is, ws? - if even that anymore.... I feel so seperate from him now.

It is very difficult to stop beating one's head against the wall now isn't it?

I am tired... and I appreciate so much your input and insight, as a true alanon....

Dealing with the alcoholic situation is so so hard.

Hugs and Happiness to you,

Honey

Maw,

Just in case you ck in.

In TX there is no legal seperation, if there was I would of filed for it. My H will get very hurt if I file D and maybe let it just go through... I KNOW HIM WELL.... NOT THAT I SHOULD CARE ABOUT HIS HURT< RIGHT? But I do want to save my marriage still.

I seperated once before from him , b/c of the drinking and etc. irresponsible but not cheating behavior, and he just about never got over my betrayal of him.... COULD YOU IMAGINE?

Anyway, I just get the d tone from your posts.... sorry... I know you aren't saying D, D, D! I just don't want to file. I know how he will take it. If I were truly done with him and had nothing in me to save my Marriage, then I would file.

The take the kids thing, was over a yr ago... and I know it was fil's sick way of reacting to my h and all the BAD THINGS he sd to fil about me.. so he could justify his A, etc. etc.......

I know fil knows his son is sick and irresponsible, and he is sick over it, as am I.... he is afraid to make his son mad... in fact... so are lots of people.. he is not very forgiving lately... his sister called it the WRATH of J. She didn't want it, she was afraid to confide in me how she truly feels about things, or he would give her the wrath.
His stepmom currently experiences the wrath... so do I... a lot of the time...

This is the wrath of an immature alcoholic who inside is acting like a little boy who is hurt and angry and just wants to be loved... not a pretty picture for a grown man who should be supporting his family.

He needs help. He was abandoned as a child by his mom, raised by his dad who married 3 more times, and raised by one stepmom who his dad had an A on, and still claims she is crazy.. the dad claims the stepmom is crazy, so that is why he did it and left his family..... there is a stepsister by the step mom.. that was the real family.... for 13 yrs or so...

Anyway, it is quite sad, I know inside he is hurt and angry, and in truth, alcoholics hate themselves... I can call his bluffs, but he likes to threaten and think he has the upper hand. he has a lot of pride and for me to be making more money than him is a real blow to this southerners pride...

Anywy, Of course there is WAY more to the story... my venting makes it look quite bad.

Truth is, we were so in love and so happy at one time... - yes it has been a while- that is was the most I could ever want... I felt like a fairy princess with our love, it was that wonderful... wonderful - wonderful , wonderful... the underlying love is still there, and that is why

When I love him, he loves me back.

When I am mean, lb, etc.... like filing for a D... he lb's back, SEE? Plan A works in this sitaution... but it is unfortunately complicated by alcoholism and things I can't accept ... with how he lives, etc... but he is DENYING that he does them.... OK, we are very confussed now... He thinks he is responsible, yet he is very much not. He thinks he is thinking rationally, yet he is very much not.

Anyway, yes, he is an alcoholic, no questions asked. Does he think so, now that is one big question, I would gather the answer is no.

This man is smart, intelligent and capable... yet, living like a college bum... ??? WHY we ask? There is some serious underlying problem.. and it is an illness.

Can I abandon the love of my life in the depths of alcoholism? NO.

Can I protect me and my boys? YES.

Will I accept unacceptable treatment or behavior from him? NO.

Will I still be as loving as possible at all times, while praying for his recovery and our marriage to be restored. YES.

Thanks for the input- hugs to you.

HONEY

Hi Honey,

Sorry I could not let this one go...

Bramblerose said:

"Asking them to respect your wishes regarding your children is like asking an alcoholic to stop drinking, or a WS to stop the affair, or asking the WIND TO STOP BLOWING!"

Well, I'm an alcoholic, yet I quit drinking.

My W was having an EA, I asked her to stop.

The next time I need to hit a 7 iron against the wind, I know what to do!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

BR - You are one of my favorite posters to read here. But I had to set that one straight!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Honey, I still think the parents thing is a side issue and one that needs attention, but maybe not right now in your topsy turvy world...

Gib

thanks GIbby, Doing better.. getting a sponsor almost 2 wks ago really is helping and doing some extra step one work... I really thought I was getting closer to 3... I had a sponsor 5+ yrs ago,... but now have a new one... but anyway.... I am starting at step one.

Saturday would be my 11 yr anniversary... so I wonder what will happen.. my h has sd he will call me and we will do something? What exactly? i don't know.

Hugs and thanks, H

Honey - Well ok fair enough - but I am not pushing divorce or legal seperation - I never once said that - Bramble Rose did... anyways - this is your life and how you choose to live it is up to you - It is just when I read your posts I get actually quite worried for you and for your children - because you are putting up with so much and you do not seem to be changing the pattern - it keeps going round and round but I wish you luck and will refrain from posting - because I get the feeling you definately do not like what I have to say --- So good luck