Hi Guys,

I'm really hurting right now so I need to just vent. Thanks for reading.

Yesterday afternoon at 2:30, I left my house to meet XBF and DS at Chuck E Cheese for an hour. I was invited by them, and very suprised because we have had VERY limited contact after last Sunday's blowout. After this, I took DS to visit with OS for a couple of hours. When I returned home at 7:30, I discovered that someone kicked in my front door and stole some items from my home. One of these items was an expensive laptop computer that I had purchased for my OS for getting straight A's on his report card. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I was so traumatized and scared that I couldn't sleep in that house. I called my landlord and the police, and then called XBF. I could not get through to him on his Cell phone so I left the message about what was going on. I then called OS's DAD and told him about the incident and the loss of OS laptop.

When the police arrived, they went into the house to determine if there was anyone still inside. DS, who is only 5, was traumatized and began running around the house gathering the possesions of his that mattered most to him. These he threw in the car and there he stayed while I talked with the policemen. XBF called while the Cops were gathering information and he asked me if I needed for him to come and get DS. DUH! WHY DO YOU THINK I CALLED YOU! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I told him that I would call him right back. After the police left, the landlord came to secure the door. I told him that I didn't feel safe there anymore and that I could no longer be in the house. I got in the car and proceeded to call XBF. He didn't bother to pick up his CELL! I waited about 15 minutes and tried again with the same results!

The third time I tried, I left him a voicemail. He finally called me back. I asked him to let me stay on the couch that night. I still own the house and am paying on the mortgage, and I felt that it was important for DS and I to feel safe together in a familiar environment. His answer was "NO". I'll pick DS up, but you have to find somewhere else to sleep. I told him, ANY nice person in the world would open a sofa up to me in a situation like this. THIS isn't about our "R", it's about mine and DS's personal safety. His response was: "I'm not a nice person. Go back to the house and sleep there, nothing will happen to you." I told him: "I'm TERRIFIED right now and I just need a safe place to stay. For once in your life when I'm asking you to be there for me, can't you just be there for me?" His answer "NO".
*&$*#^(!

Then he asks if he should come and get DS! I told him to have a NICE LIFE! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I am so hurt that I don't even rate as a human being in his eyes. He could care less whether I lived or died! He wasn't even concerned enough about DS to get in the car and come see if he was okay. I feel so hurt and hopeless right now! I'm trying so hard to piece a life back together and this is the last thing that I needed.

Then the SOB has the NERVE to Call my cell phone this morning (3) times and elaves a message that he's calling: "To see what's going on!" I get to work and there's a similae voice mail message waiting for me. My telephine has rung about every hour since then, with NO other messages left!

What the F**k!

He didn't give two Sh*ts about me last night, but today he wants to see if things are okay? I am SO ANGRY that I called a lawyer today to get the issues with the house settled!

AM I REACTING BADLY TO ALL OF THIS? Were my EXPECTATIONS OUT OF LINE HERE? CAN SOMEONE PLEASE LET ME KNOW! I WANT SO BADLY FOR HIM TO FEEL THIS TYPE OF FEAR AND TO BE TREATED AS IF HE WAS LOWER THAN THE SCUM ON HIS SHOES! I'm SORRY, but I WAS HURT TOO! NO ONE DESERVES TO BE DISMISSED LIKE THAT!

I'm done.

Thanks for letting me rant.

<small>[ December 13, 2002, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: kily ]</small>

Kily,

I don't think you are reacting too strongly. If the answer was NO for some reason, then maybe, but he offered no reason. Since it is as much your house as his, I think his answer was way out of line.

Perhaps you now have your answer. I don't know but it is another piece of data for you to consider. You have learned alot but it appears that he has not.

Hope today goes better and that things settle down.

God Bless,

JL

((((((((kily))))))))

I"m sorry to hear about the break in. That's one situation I can honestly say that I have not had to deal with. My uncle had his house broken into TWICE, and he had a tough time 'reclaiming' it in his mind. He and his W eventually moved.

I agree, that yes, it was pretty darn selfish of your BF to not let you stay at his house for the one night. I cannot imagine a person turning someone else in need away like that. And I'm sure he'd expect you to let him stay at your house if the situation were reversed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Reading how you were turning to him, and he still let you down, made me see myself in your shoes. I'm always looking to my H for help and reassurance. And he can never give that to me. Yet I continue to go back to him - it almost seems to me as though I WANT to be punished by him!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I'm now in the process of letting him go, b/c I can see that he's never really been there for me, and I have to learn not to go to him. It's hard.

My situation is different from yours I"m sure. I'm dealing with addictive personalities (mine and my H's), and that makes this whole thing all the more confusing.

I just wanted you to know that I read your post, and that I'm thinking about you.

(((((((((kily)))))))))

Karen

Kily,

My apologies that I don't know more of your story... but it looks like xbf is ds parent?

First let me say, I am sorry you had this happen, and it is awful... but...

I can see where he might be coming from if ya'll are not together right now...

Please don't let the break in be the defining moment.

He, xbf, is maybe just not ready for you in an overnight fashion even in an emergency... you have to remember he is not on your emergency back up plans right now... - at least I have to do with my h I am seperated from for now a yr. I don't expect him to be there for me.. now if we work this out, yes.. but not now.

I do think as an adult you can find other options , even staying in the house with everything locked tight... if you had too, or a hotel, or another friends, or even xh? Is that os's parent?

I hate that this trajedy happened to you and I am sorry.. but I hate to see you end your chances of getting together especially after a nice time out at chukee cheeses and all.

Give it time and take a deep breath.

Don't answer those calls for now, it is surely his guilt.. and the guilt may make for him to change into what you need.

Don't bless him out or file legal charges, etc.... push d forward, because of his reaction... he may not be ready for an overnight on the couch, and may have thought it meant he was letting you in.. when he is not sure yet...

Men don't understand our fear .. women's , after a break in and such- or may not fully comprehend.

Give it time if you can.

i understand, I would be po'd too, but don't turn it into you lbing him, let him lb, and you just say something like

It is ok, we are fine, thanks. Don't dig in your anger with him and tell him how awful he is b/c he didn't let you come over- let it go.

This is plan a.

Hugs, H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Was there an elephant in the room? Seriously, could it be that the reason he couldn't give 2 cares about your situation last night, but now is concerned today, that there was another woman at the house??? Just a thought.

Brit's Brat/BS-41
FWH-43
DS-13 months today
Status: One Day At A Time

Kily

Just a quick note as I am off to bed - how sorry I am to hear of your break in. It must have been awful for you. IMHO, I think your XBF was out of line. People's opinions here will obviously vary, but as the mother of his traumatised son who perhaps needed both mum and dad, he should have thought about that.

With my H's girls (although much older now), there has never been any question at all of any half measures involving the children. If H's XW rang up and had a break in and the girls were upset, all of them would be welcome here, no questions.

One thing though, don't let your upset and hurt overwhelm you with this. You have had the trauma of the break-in, plus him letting you down. Don't act in haste about what you do next.

Thinking of you in London.

Lisa

Hi All,

Thanks for your love and support during my times of trouble.

JL - After going back to my last few posts and looking at the events that transpired recently, I have to say that I was wrong in wanting to depend on XBF in my time of NEED. I shouldn't be expecting anything at all from him. I could have very easily checked into a MOTEL or something. I was looking for someone to TAKE CARE of me. This is all part of the deep issues that I really need(ed) to address in order to heal me.

I am dissapointed that he thinks that little of me, but he obviously had his reasons. By handling this situation on my own, it made me see just how strong of a woman I am. I know that he was feeling guilt from his decision the next day because he called me at least 10 times before I finally broke down and picked up the phone. He again offered me advice on what I could have done differently to prevent this from happening, and made some suggestions on what to do for the future. I suppose this was his way of "takng care" of me and apeasing himself for whatever it was he needed to address internally. Truthfully, I really didn't want the input from him. I'm not sure what it is I'm feeling towards him at the moment, but I know that I have lost some of the respect that I held for him and have gained some for myself. I know that I am wrong to judge him at all, and I am trying to let go of all holds that I allow this to have over me.

Topie-Thanks for your input. I was VERY co-dependant during this whole "R" and I completly understand that need to go back for more. I'm still doing this, but now it's for healing purposes, not fulfilment ones.

Honey-Believe ot or not, I agree with you. It took me a while to get past my neediness to see what it is that was really hurting me. Truthfully, his rejection of me was more traumatic than the break in. That tells me that there is something I need to address internally. I do know that I would have handled this situation differently, no matter what the circumstances were. I know that the person that I cried for help to was NOT the person that I had a long term "r" with. He will eventually have to face himself, just like I did.

Brit's-Brat- I know that he was with his GF and I firmly believe that this is why he didn't come for DS immediately. Had he been home, he would have dropped everything to come for him. This reaction was SO out of character for him. I'm not too upset about it because I know he did himself some damage and I know the proces. I went through it myself.

Lisa- Thanks for the support. The experience actually turned out to be an adventure for DS. We have been sleeping at hotels for the last two nights and have turned it into something fun! It almost intensified a bond between us because he KNOWS that I was able to take care of him and me. I didn't NEED to depend on anyone else!

I believe that things happen for a reason. When I think about the questions and searching that I have undertaken lately, I realize that there were several lessons here:

1. I know that the person that did this was hurting much more than me. If he needed that "fix" that badly, then his demons were much worse than my own.

2. I see that I don't need to depend on anyone else for my survival. It would have been nice to have someone hold my hand and tell me things were going to be okay, but it felt even more rewarding to know that I could hold my own hand.

3. I don't own much, and I had been beating myself up until I was blue in the face for not being able to give my kids "more". Truthfully, someone else had much less than me and was so desperate that he had to brutally bash in a front door just to get to that next quick fix that would help him through.

I'm still very depressed and will not get back into the house until Saturday. I'm not sure if I really WANT to go back there. I feel like the breeze of change has been blowing and because it wasn't strong enough, a storm had to come through to get my attention.

Peace and love to you all. Thanks again!

Okay GUYS!

BIG VENT HERE! I promise I'll make it short!

XBF wants nothing to do with me based on the latest events and yet...........

He calls me today and I tell him that I will not be in the house until Sat. at the earliest. He starts flying off the handle. Immediately he starts to go into "fix" mode and starts telling me what I should and shouldn't be doing. He tells me that the landlord should have had a carpenter there THAT day to fix everything, and that I should deduct at least $350 from my rent payment to cover hotel and time lost in my house. (All things that I have already been considering on my own.)

After a few more (ANGRY) suggestions, he informs me that I should pick up DS tonight so HE can attend teachers conference. I was planning on attending this too. Of course he was VERY resistive to this. Also, He wants me to keep DS at the hotel with me again this evening. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I've had him for two nights already and I have enough STRESS to deal with. A night out at a movie or something sounds really nice right now.

JL you will tell me that I am making a disrespectful judgement here, but I THINK that he wants to go out again and wants DS out of the picture for the evening! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Why does he want to fix things for me? It's obvious that he and "J" are WONDERFULLY happy together, so why still try to "fix" me?

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I know, I know, I know, can I please answer the question Ms. Kily??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Actually, I do know the answer to this one. One he is a male and we do the "fix" things rather well, if I do say so myself. Second, he is used to "fixing" things or trying to fix things for you. In fact, he probably expects that the only time you call or want to be around him is that he is supposed to "fix" something.

Now having said this, does it give you a clue to his response to you when you contact or call him? He expects that YOU want something from him, not that you want to GIVE something to him.

As for your S, take the little guy to a movie or something. One, more night isn't going hurt, plus the little guy is probably a bit concerned with everything that has happened.

As for the landlord, fixing things and paying for things, his insurance may cover part of this. Do talk with him/her, but also do some independent checking. Office of consumer affairs in your state might be able to give you some guidance as well. Or any consumer or renter's rights groups.

As for you response to this, well if you need exBF for protection, then it doesn't seem he is your man right now. May not ever be. I understand what you are saying that you are growing from this and that is very good.

Frankly, Kily I am of mixed feelings about part of what you have said. I think it is important that you become independent and realize that you don't NEED him or anyman. Problem is, if you are going to be happy, you will need to have that self-respect and confidence but also be willing to let someone help you. Do you see my mixed message here? A good marriage is where both spouses NEED to be with one another, but can live without the other. They can be vulnerable but they aren't.

Does that make sense? Frankly, no one can hurt you like someone you deeply love. But the solution is not to harden your heart so that you don't love anyone. I sense that in your growth you are starting to grapple with this. Especially with exBF. On the one hand you handled things just fine and you really didn't need to call him. It messed up his hot date <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . But on the other hand, it would have been nice for him to have come through for you would it not?

Sort of a mixed thing isn't it. You are growing Kily and it brings me back to my questions to you. If you went back with all you have learned how would you have handled it differently? How would you have analyzed the situation?

You have expressed your sorrow for what you did. You have offered to work on getting together. You seem willing to wait for awhile. All of these things are good. And frankly all you can do. The only other thing to do, you are working on. Healing yourself and getting a new perspective on your life and your strengths.

So I would recommend that you let this issue drop. It is a data point on your highway to learning. It is sad that the computer for your other child was stolen. Hopefully, insurance will cover some of it.

By the way, can I be so impolite as to ask how old you are? If you are uncomfortable don't worry, I won't get mad if you prefer not to answer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

I am very proud to say that I am 33 and loving it. I am proud of how far I've come.

Thanks for your words.

Last comments of the issue and then I WILL let it go,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Frankly, Kily I am of mixed feelings about part of what you have said. I think it is important that you become independent and realize that you don't NEED him or anyman. Problem is, if you are going to be happy, you will need to have that self-respect and confidence but also be willing to let someone help you. Do you see my mixed message here? A good marriage is where both spouses NEED to be with one another, but can live without the other. They can be vulnerable but they aren't.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's strange that you touched on this, but last night I had four different people offer me a place to stay for the night. I chose to go to the hotel because DS was SO looking forward to this.

My point?

For the first time in my adult life, I really NEEDED to depend on someone. When I couldn't do this, I faced that I could handle it. I also realized that the help was there, and that people were genuinely concerned and wanted to lend a hand. It was nice and refreshing to learn that I was really valused, and that offers were made out of sincerity, NOT obligation.

I was okay with leaning on the support network that I never knew I had. Never in my past would I admit that I needed a hand because I viewed this as a weakness.

This was very humbling for me.

Kily,

Humble... is a very good thing.

The smartest, the strongest, the best people I have ever known were humble. If you ask anyone to describe this people they were non-assuming and humble. Then they would start on all of their attributes.

You do have friends as I knew you must given your posts. You do have people that will help you. Sometimes let them help you, but realize that you can often do things yourself. This is part of the mixed message I am sending. I think it is great that you handled this on your own, and you did because the little one wanted to go to a hotel. That is cool. But, if don't let people help you sometimes then they will feel you don't need them.

People do want to be needed as well as helped. I think you are sorting this out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

33 huh??? Gosh, you could be my daughter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
You don't realize it yet, you are still very young and many many good years ahead of you. Be happy that you are sorting through all of this now. It will make the rest of your life so much better and more fun.

You know Kily, I realize you feel you are sort of in a bad place and that you have done some very hurtful things, but I really do sense that your life is about to really start moving forward and you will find a lot of happiness once you balance out all that you are dealing with. It will happen soon Kily, that is what I suspect.

Have you found a new place to move yet? Someplace with "good" light, and a peaceful feel.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

Kily,
I only had a few minutes here before beginning some homework for a class I'm taking. I haven't answered the posts on my thread since yesterday, but had to see what your news was.

Bottom line--I'm so sorry for the break-in!! This happened to us once here, about 12 years ago. It feels like you've been violated, indeed.

I can't imagine how upset you were, not to have the help of exBF. How very, very disappointing for you. On the other hand, he did care enough to feel guilty,so perhaps that's a good sign.

JL and the others said many insightful things.

I don't really have much to add at this moment. I do, however, know how awful you must have felt when exBF refused to help you out. I really find it hard to believe, too. Perhaps my ExH would do the same thing to me. If he did, I would find it hard to continue carrying hopes of a reconciliation with him. On the other hand, maybe your exBF did the whole turn-down as a show, for the GF's sake. Then, the next day...while she wasn't around, he called. (sorry to bounce around here--just trying to figure it out.

Again, Kily, sorry for your break-in. Please know that I'm thinking of you. It sounds like you've gotten much stronger and learned a lot from this incident.

HP

Hi Guys,

I spent the night in the house last night. It really wasn't a safe thing to do but at this point, I'm tired of running from fear. When I got home, I was ANGRY because the house was in SHAMBLES. I spent some time cleaning up while DS painted pasta for an ART project.

Suprisingly, XBF called me at work yesterday. I have noticed over the last few days that this is becoming almost a predictable ocurrance that happens at the same time every day. This is consistent with the person that he is, and I find myself looking forward to hearing from him, even if it is only to confirm the details of DS for the evening. I don't want to look into it any further than what it is because I'm tired of having false hopes.

I received an strange VIBE from him that his wall of protection was WAY up, and when he spoke to me He sounded very weird. It's hard for me to put into words what the exact issue was but I was immediately concerned and asked him what was wrong. He seemed to let the guard down a notch after I asked the question, and he basically told me mothing. I told him that perhaps it was due to having to talk to me, but that I sensed that something was wrong and if he wanted to talk, I was here to listen.

Quickly the subject changed to my plans for the evening. I informed him that I was picking up DS and that I was planning on sleeping in the house. I told him that I could put the cofee table in front of the door so no one could force their way in. He went into "FIX" mode again, and strongly suggested that I buy a "club" for the front door. He explained how it worked, cost, and where I could purchase it. I thanked him and told him that it was a good idea and that I would buy one when I left work. The conversation ended there.

I picked DS up at the usual time and went home. About 3 minutes from the house, my cell rings and its XBF. He asked me how I was and I told him that I was scared. He then informed me that he had gone out and bought me the "CLUB" for the door! I was speechless. He offered to drive to my house and drop it off, but I had to get groceries and decided that I could meet him at the store to make it easier for him. We met. He gave me the club. I asked him if I owed him any $, he said don't worry about it. I hugged him and said thanks. He was stiff as a rail, but did not try to stop me. Then he said: "I'm sorry it happened." I said: "me too." Then he left.

I went home, and had a really rough night. I am proud of myself for getting through the night without crying!

JL - I believe that you are right in that my life is moving forward and that all of this "stuff" had to be dealt with first.

It's funny, but the other night when we went to the teachers conference, I looked at XBF with a different set of eyes than I had ever had. I wasn't seeing him from the guilty needy place, or the dependant take care of me place. I felt like I was just observing any other human being. I think that the break-in has affected both of us in ways that aren't very apparent yet.

He looked VERY tired, and weary, but I didn't feel that it was due to the "R" issues. It went deeper than that, almost a projection from his soul that he was defeated. I felt that even though we had spent many years together, this person that sat there was a complete stranger to me. I realized at that moment that his GF may make him momentarily happy in the great timescale of life, but that in his core being, he was not happy at all. I felt very sad when I saw this.

I only wish that he could find the courage to forgive me and let go of the pain. That alone is killing his spirit, and I HATE that I am responsible for this. He is a GOOD man but he has been ANGRY for way too many years. Long before I ever had any EA or PA. I pray that he can find peace, and I will be there for him REGARDLESS.

HP - I know in my heart that his reaction was related to his "new" relationship. I don't think he consciously was trying to put on an act for her, I felt he was subconsciously trying to protect himself from the feelings that he has buried for me. You see, I believe that he needs to keep a barrier up so that I can't get inside to hurt him again. Part of the barrier includes the place where he resides. Although legally I still own a part of the house, it is HIS territory. To let me in, even under the dire circumstances, would be a betrayal to his commitment to banish me from his life. It would alos be a betrayal to the "R" that he has started with his GF.

Right now, that is an infatuation that has provided him some relief from his pain. He needs to protect that "R" with his life because at the moment it os the only thing that has "saved" him from his pain. He was empty, and has found something to fill his well up. In a way, he is going through the same dynamics that you and I did when we ran to the OP. He is justified in doing so because I threw him away. THAT is why I have to respect him and stay in the shadows.

What will happen is that he will either FALL in LOVE with her in time, or he will forgive and decide to look inward. It's really in his hands to decide what he NEEDS in his life. If I step back, and truly love him unconditionally, it only helps him and me grow in our "R".

I think I'm starting to reach CLARITY because the whole situation has less power over me.

Sorry, I'm very reflective today.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

Here's an email from XBF:

I need to tell you that "J's" name is really "A".
DS came up with the name "J" so I just left it.

She was concerned too about you and Stephen on Sunday and wanted to come and assist you and him. But I know you said you are not ready to meet her.

You would like her but given the circumstances I know its tough.

I'm glad the lock helped..............

XBF.

What is this man thinking? He just got off the telephone with me 2 minutes before sending this.

Okay, I've calmed down a little! In looking at this from a non-emotional place, I see that he is feeking guilty about something. That is why he had to tell me her real name. Cool! I can respect that he wants to come clean.

She was concerned about me and DS on sunday, yeah right! They were so concerned that he told me that he cared only about DS! He could care less about what happened to me. She is just pacifying him so he will believe that she has a GOOD heart. OH she cares so much about me.

I figured out why he wants me to meet her. He feels TORN and he figures that if she and I become "friends" then it's okay to have BOTH of us in his life. He's thinking that we will grow to be one BIG happy family. NOT!

Well, on the bright side, at least he's willing to start talking about her to me. That means that he values some part of me in his life.

I'm so confused!

<small>[ November 21, 2002, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: kily ]</small>

Kily,

I am sitting here sort of giggling. Not really. Kily the walls have just lowered abit. He is feeling guilty and he is telling some truths.

I think you need to meet his girl friend. Why? The answer is complex and I don't have much time today. Some short snippets.

He wants YOUR approval. She wants to meet you. He wants to be more open with you.
You need to see her. You will need this for some of the closure you seek. You hopefully will see him healing. It is a way to normalize your relationship with him.

It may lead to the end of your hopes to rebuild and perhaps marry him. But, if she helps him heal then you will know that much of your current regrets will be eased. You are getting much stronger and this may NOT be the man for you. You will be much more ready to face this IF he is happy. You are already becoming happy with your life and will continue to do so WITHOUT his help.

There is much more, but I suspect meeting her is a good idea, she is around your son after all. Plus, it shows him your growth. Would the "old" Kily be able to do this?

So don't be mad at him. You just witnessed a breakthrough of sorts. Just remember all breakthroughs are not necessarily what we expected or even wanted.

You will do fine Kily. Your life is going to be good. Have confidence in that.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ November 21, 2002, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

JL,

You KNOW that I will be requesting more of your insights on this.

You wrote: So don't be mad at him. You just witnessed a breakthrough of sorts. Just remember all breakthroughs are not necessarily what we expected or even wanted.

I'm not MAD at him. I am really just hurting. I know that this is all a part of the growth process that is necessary to heal, but that doesn't diminsh the pain. I know, time and patience.

You asked if the new KILY was capable of meeting her. Truthfully, I don't want to and if I did want to I'm not sure if I could. I am still very attached to him and I feel that being around her will bring out the jealous insecure child in me. I don't want to have my behavior be something that drives them further together. It's obviously MY issue because I need to LET GO.

I know that my best plan right now is to just be there for him when he allows me to be, and to continue to be TRUE to my feelings and growth. This may lead me to a new "R" at some point, but ultimately I still wish to wait this out for a while and see what happens in a year or so. I know what happened in my own case, and I have to believe that at some point his walls will come down even further.

In being the supportive "friend" and mother, I can hopefully nuture the seeds that are buried so deeply within him.

I'm going to New York tonight to see a concert at MSG. At least this will help me feel a little better.

By the way, I bid on a few laptops on EBAY to replace what was taken from my son. I'm hoping to get one for each child as a Christams gift! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ah! Young Grasshopper

( You need to have seen the old Kung Fu series to appreciate this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

You have much to learn. This GF isn't your competition, she may be the salvation of your relationship with exBF. She will certainly be the person through which you will grow into the person you want to be.

Are you ready for me to lay some ideas on you? Hope so. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

First, your BF needs to heal even more than you do. He also needs to see you as a grown, stable, happy woman. He needs to see you as someone who has his best interests at heart.

If he sees these things, he is likly to reconsider his opinions of you, but more importantly he will have healed.

Why is the healing so important? Well, you simply will NEVER have a decent relationship with him until he does. If this woman can heal the wounds, you will benefit for sure in one way, and possibly in several others. The one way for sure is that you will know that the damage done by you, has been healed and the rest of your life can be led without regret or worry for this man. He has healed. That is very good for you.

If he heals and sees you in a new light, then there is a chance for you two to have the relationship that you want and need. A healthy one with things better balanced.

If this woman IS THE ONE, the your exBF will be happy and if you really care for him you will be glad that he is happy. I am not trying to say that you won't wish it had worked out, but in the long run you will be happy.

There is more to say but the phone keeps ringing so I am getting interrupted. Finally, if you come to normalize relations with your exBF and his GF, you will grow. You will find the jealousy is not really a great thing, especially for something that you do not have or for someone that is at the moment lost to you. Further, you might find you like her, and that will be good for your son as well.

Kily, I know I am asking an awful lot of you. But, this is a test. Can you accept that what your exBF feels is best for him right now, may not be what you want? That is the question. Do you love him enough to want to see him happy above all else? If you do,then Kily you are where you need to be and he will see the differences. Will it lead to a reconcilliation? I don't know but I think it ups the odds.

He needs to see you as a mature (yet young <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) woman that has her act together,sees the big picture and cares for him deeply. Now if he can address his issues, that image of you and his new mental health offers the best chance for you two to have a long and successful relationship (better known as a marriage <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Frankly, I cannot see how you would want a marriage to him under any other circumstances.

Hope you enjoy the concert. Who did you see/hear?

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Kung Fu on a Saturday afternoon was a big deal to me when I was a young lass. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I understand what you are saying, and I know that this is the way it HAS to happen, but it is VERY difficult to pull back my emotinal reactions to the situation.

I am realizing that this is hurting me so much because I am feeling like he TOTALLY forgot that I even existed in his life. Even when I was with OM, I always made time to sit and have a cup of tea and at least have dinner a few nights a week with him. I may not have been giving him the "R" that he wanted, but I was still trying to have some sort of contact with him to let him know that I valued his presence in my life. He HAS completely SHUT me out. I feel as if I am invisible to him.

I am feeling a very deep loss and the fact that he is OUT, having lots of fun, when he never WANTED to do things with me is hard to deal with. I keep wondering WHY that "R" is so special, and WHY I wasn't. There were times where I had to get down on my hands and knees to beg him to do anything with me. It seems like he is ALL too Willing to do everything for her. Yes I guess the GREEN EYED MONSTER has reared it's ugly head.

I'm working hard to forgive all of this and work on why I'm so insecure about it all. I am trying to figure out why this whole mess has such a deep hold on me. I'm starting to believe that this is branching from some unresolved abandonment issues from when I was a child because the pain is much deeper than it should be at this stage of the game. I'm ANGRY because I seem to be the only one with the ISSUES. He seems to be perfectly fine. Even his therapist has said that he no longer needs to go there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It makes me feel like I am REALLY screwed up.

You're right, I should be happy for him that he has finally found something that he wants. I am, I'm just hurting because as much as he said it was, it was never really ME.

I know that I lived with him for over 8 years and although he claimed to be happy, I simply see it differently. We were two strangers living under a roof. I felt I always had to BEG for LOVE, and I felt that no matter what I did, I was never going to receive it. The sad thing is, I am such a great person and he really doesn't have a clue about that. All he can see is what he allows himself to see, and THAT is not who I am.

Sorry, I'm really trying to let out the pain so that I can get to the deeper issues. Sometimes this forum is the only place I have to turn to.

Last night's concet was Peter Gabriel. I'm not to interested in his latest stuff, but I do like the older stuff quite a bit. The show was VERY artsy and full of many suprises. I had fun, but didn't get in until 3:00 this morning. I'm tired and that is partly why I am so sensitive.

Thanks for listening and for the feedback.

Kily (Grasshopper,somehow that seems to fit you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ),

I cannot possibly answer all of your questions to the level I am sure you want the answers. I don't have the knowledge or the know how to do so, but I will give you my thoughts on your questions and comments, THEN I have to get back to work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kung Fu on a Saturday afternoon was a big deal to me when I was a young lass. [Big Grin]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know I thought the show was a bit dorky when it was actually on, but the reruns are actually pretty intertaining.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand what you are saying, and I know that this is the way it HAS to happen, but it is VERY difficult to pull back my emotinal reactions to the situation.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My guess is that you shouldn't pull back so much as examine them. And learn from them. Your reaction isn't bad and it sure is normal, but it seems to me it is time for another evolutionary jump in your view of things. "Oh! Good" she says. "Another gut wrenching jump, just what I want." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Several of my daughters friends used to say: "Character is what you get when you don't get what you want." Stronly suggesting that us parents had probably over relied on the standard, "it builds character" when something happened in their lives they didn't like. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am realizing that this is hurting me so much because I am feeling like he TOTALLY forgot that I even existed in his life. Even when I was with OM, I always made time to sit and have a cup of tea and at least have dinner a few nights a week with him. I may not have been giving him the "R" that he wanted, but I was still trying to have some sort of contact with him to let him know that I valued his presence in my life. He HAS completely SHUT me out. I feel as if I am invisible to him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NOPE, wrong answer here. He has not forgotten you. First you two share a child. Second, his reaction to you is very clear. He still has deep feelings for you, alot of them are pain, but others are the memories of how it used to be. He is trying to shut you out, because it is easier with this new GF and he isn't certain about either you nor himself. That is my guess.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am feeling a very deep loss and the fact that he is OUT, having lots of fun, when he never WANTED to do things with me is hard to deal with. I keep wondering WHY that "R" is so special, and WHY I wasn't. There were times where I had to get down on my hands and knees to beg him to do anything with me. It seems like he is ALL too Willing to do everything for her. Yes I guess the GREEN EYED MONSTER has reared it's ugly head.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, several hard things here. First, he is having fun in the relationship because he wants to. Now this is likely because he has learned a few things from your R with him. He no doubt went over every conversation, every interaction to see what he failed at when you left. My bet is having fun with your GF came to mind. So he is doing that. Second part of this reality, is that this GF may not be asking, expecting, or interacting with him as you did. It is possible.

I know this doesn't make you feel any better. BUT, as an outsider looking in, I cannot help but wonder why you want to be back in the relationship you describe.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm working hard to forgive all of this and work on why I'm so insecure about it all. I am trying to figure out why this whole mess has such a deep hold on me. I'm starting to believe that this is branching from some unresolved abandonment issues from when I was a child because the pain is much deeper than it should be at this stage of the game. I'm ANGRY because I seem to be the only one with the ISSUES. He seems to be perfectly fine. Even his therapist has said that he no longer needs to go there. [Frown] It makes me feel like I am REALLY screwed up.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, SEEMS is the opporative word here. You KNOW he has issues and surely did when you were with him. He still has them, but this new relationship allows him to avoid addressing them. LOVE cures all don't you know??? I am sure you have abandonment issues. You upbringing was not good. BUT, Kily, no one likes to be abandoned, so I am not sure how seriously you need to worry about this.

Frankly, I think this whole mess has a deep hold on you because you did not handle the relationship they way you knew you should. You should have left it and properly ended it, rather than running off and having an affair. You know that, and you know that you hurt him deeply. I think your conscience bothers you, and you would like to make it right.

You are a good woman for feeling this way. But, while you continually say you want to rekindle this relationship and you love your exBF, your descriptions of the interaction between you two suggests to me that you would be NUTS to want to be back there again. So I wonder if these deep feelings are more empathetic to the pain you know he went through and the fact that you could have handled better.

This is why I am saying GF is the best thing happening. Your exBF is healing and feeling better, that means you can forgive yourself now. It is time you did that. If he tires of her, as he probably will (most BF/GF relationships don't end in marriage), then he will be a different person. STronger, more confident. You will be as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right, I should be happy for him that he has finally found something that he wants. I am, I'm just hurting because as much as he said it was, it was never really ME.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not sure what this meant, but is it that in the past you loved him deeply, but he never really acted in a loving way to you? Are you feeling down, because you can see he is capable of loving like you would have liked? If so, this is reasonable, but it should cause you to stop and think about what you would do if you were magically transported back to that time. Remember my questions to you? What would be different? Would you tell him to go pound sand, if he treated you the way he did then?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that I lived with him for over 8 years and although he claimed to be happy, I simply see it differently. We were two strangers living under a roof. I felt I always had to BEG for LOVE, and I felt that no matter what I did, I was never going to receive it. The sad thing is, I am such a great person and he really doesn't have a clue about that. All he can see is what he allows himself to see, and THAT is not who I am.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hello Kily. You have reached the final point. You lived with a guy 8 years, had a child with him, and he wouldn't marry you. You were undoubtedly a good person,and interestingly you are becoming a even better person now. Don't you think this is more about him than it is about you? I do. I know you did some horrible things to him, BUT... he hasn't covered himself in glory either. In fact, he may just be a person that wants what is removed from his grasp. Sort of like a child with lots of toys but is only interested in a given toy if a friend picks it up and starts to play with it. Then throws a fit. As soon as friend show now interest, the the child moves on to other things.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry, I'm really trying to let out the pain so that I can get to the deeper issues. Sometimes this forum is the only place I have to turn to.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is the pain about what you have lost? Or is it about what "might have been?"

I know I sound pretty hard hearted here. But, I think your relationship with exBF will only have a chance after he has been with the GF for awhile. He needs the validation and he won't accept it from you. I also think you need to really evaluate your past relationship with him. I doubt seriously if you would want such a relationship today or need it.

You do love him that much is clear. And because you do, you want to be back into a deep relationship with him again. However, the conditions must be right, the relationship must be right, and you both must have gotten your own issues sorted out.

I think you need to allow him to introduce her to you. I think you need to see how she interacts with your S. I think you need to see how he really treats her when you are around. I am sure he will be on his best behavior, but it will be a clue to the man he has become. You and, presumably, he are still young, but you are experienced adults.

I think you need to come to a place where you enjoy being around him, but don't need to. You can handle him being around the GF and be there as well. He will see you in a different light, but as you become able to do this you will have the ability to step back, detach, analyze, and then decide how much you want to enjoy a given relationship.

I am sure a trained "shrink" could give you much better advice worded in a more eloquent fashion, but Kily this is about you growing. I realize it is about your wanting to reestablish what you think you lost, but I think you will establish somethings within yourself you NEVER knew you had. That i my mind is far more important to your future happiness.

Now have I said a single thing you don't already know, Young Grasshopper? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Have a good weekend Kily.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

I will meekly admit that everything you have said I truly did already know. I just couldn't verbalize it.

It's been an interesting weekend. I think I have made some headway with my internal struggles.

I had a small epiphany over the weekend that started with the courage to give it all to God. I arrived at a place where I realized that part of my pain was due to the fact that I was fighting the "plan" that is in place for me. I chose a path when I moved out of the house. I made the decision to change what was stuck. You are right, I feel EXTREMELY guilty for the manner in which I carried it out.

At the time, I realize that it was the best that I could do because I was so completely lost and hopeless. It was obvious that no matter what we both tried, it simply wasn't right for either of us. I struggled with the hard facts that things had to change between XBF and I. I NEEDED someone to lean on for strength because I had none left. Unfortunately, I had no support network in place so I turned to a very valued male friend for that strength.

There are several million reason I can offer as to "why" it happened. I can only say that it did, and there is nothing I can do to change what simply "is". Just as I can not change the path that XBF has now found himself on. I have reached acceptance towards his new life. I will be okay with all of it. If I did go back in time, I would have been more supportive, and would heav voiced my feelings instead of burying them. Yes, I believe I would have told him to get lost if the treatment was the same.

I think for me, the biggest contribution to my current pain is that, YES, I see that he has the capacity to love someone the way I needed for him to love me. I am hurting because I am not able to "reap" the rewards of the hard effort that I put into that "R". Yes, I'm glad that he is happy, but I am now alone and watching him play "happy homemaker" with his GF and my child. It hurts me because I wanted what he now has, and I am the outsider.

It's really funny, but once I gave it to God, I felt much better about everything. I was able to step away from the need to be "seen" by XBF, and when that happened something interesting occurred. He seemed to get ANGRY at me again, but the wall has started to show severe signs of structural damage. I guess an Engineer might even say that it may have to be torn down because it is non-repairable.

During a brief conversation yesterday some key points were made by him and me:

1. His mother is a nervous wreck over our break-up. - I asked him of she took comfort in the fact that he found someone that made him happy and he said yes, but that she was STILL very upset. I asked him if sitting with her and explaining things would help her understand it and he said that she doesn't wish to see me. I asked him what specifically was bothering her - i.e. was it that we were not going to be raising our son together? He never really pinpointed her issues.

2. He told me that he "loved" "A". He really "LOVED" "A". - Not to be disrespectful to him, I really want for him to be happy, but he sounded as if he was trying to convince himself more than me of this fact. It wasn't me trying to deny the truth, I sincerely felt that this was not a true statement. I did not feel threatened, jealous, or angry when he voiced this to me. I completely understand why this is important for him right now and I told him that I supported him no matter what decisions that he made. I told him that his happiness meant everything to me. I told him I was glad that he could find love again, and that if he really felt this strongly then perhaps he should consider marrying her. I sincerely meant this.

3. He told me: "If you really want me to like you again then please leave me alone." I asked him what it was that he felt I was doing to bother him. I pointed out that I was only calling to talk to DS. I voiced that I haven't asked him for ANYTHING since the Sunday that the house was broken into. He acknowledged this and was very quiet when I asked him that question.

4. He begged me: "PLEASE DON"T TURN MY WORLD UPSIDE DOWN AGAIN." All I could do was to sit back and think: "WOW, What is it that you are saying here?" I didn't answer because I didn't know what to say. I was completely taken by suprise with this comment.

The conversation was suprisingly open and there was much anger expressed as well as SOME small vulnerable moments on his part. Mainly, I allowed him to steer the direction that the discussion took, and I was suprised at the reactions I received from him.

Once again we discussed my leving. This time he didn't phrase it as ABANDONING, which is a major shift for him. At some point I made a statement that I had always LOVED him, has never stopped LOVING him, and would always feel LOVE for him regardless of what happened in our lives. He blew me away when he responded. His comment to me was "Yes, I know that you loved me. I realize that you didn't LOVE yourself." I told him that I was sincerely sorry again. He said he acknowledged this but wasn't accepting my apology. I told him that I wasn't trying to force an apology, I was trying to convey how SAD I was that I hurt so many people and myself. He was suprisingly supportive.

Then for some reason we were on the topic of "us". I said to him that I wished way back when that I knew how to talk to him about my feelings. He took off with this and started to open up about my OS father, one good PLATONIC co-worker that I first started to explore my pain with, and then the "A". He expressed that he was sorry that I turned to them instead of him. I felt from him that he really UNDERSTOOD some of what I was feeling. For the first time in I can't remember how long, I actually felt compassion and caring from him. It is too weird. One of the last things we discussed was that I regret that we lost the opportunity to explore our issues with the commitment from both of us to try and repair the damage. I told him that I felt that we could have fixed it had we both been willing. He was very calm as I said these words.

I think for the first time in a REALLY long time, we FINALLY communicated.

Yes I DO LOVE him, enough to let him go and move on if need be.

All for now.

Thanks JL for your answer to my post. It really has helped me.