Kily,

I think you are doing a good thing by turning it over to God. I also think you are beginning to reach closure on this subject.

However, there is one thing that was said that puzzles me. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He expressed that he was sorry that I turned to them instead of him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But, Kily from everything you have said, when you turned to him, he wasn't there. Is this revisionist thinking on his part or your part. It seems to me that you may have NEEDED him to much, but he did turn away. He certainly turned away with the break-in.

I point this out because if it were ever to pass that you and he got back together, his issues with commitment, support, and love need to be addressed. I suspect some of them have as he searched his soul for what happened when you left.

My thinking here is that may have a chance to rebuild or start over only if GF proves not to be who he wants to marry. I am sure he is thinking about these things, but it often occurs that as a relationship deepens one discovers that marrying that person is not what they want.

Frankly, I suspect that was what was happening in your relationship. However, you abrupt and painful departure caused him to reevaluate. If you hadn't departed he may have never committed. Having a child in the relationship really mixes this stuff up, as you know.

So let this settle. Continue to be nice to him. Take good care of your son. Begin to enjoy your life and keep learning. I can attest that you are never too old to learn something new. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

I received this email at work today! I am so ANGRY that he completely disrespected me like this. He couldn't even tell me in person.

Kily:

2 Things.

I'm sorry to bring this up but I need too. Especially at work. But its easier for me to write this. I don't want to hate you and to yell anymore like yesterday.

1. I applied for a refinacning loan back in September liked we talked about then and the papers are finally done. It includes the home equity loan liked we talked about which I believe you charged @$XXK. Can I trouble you to meet me to sign the papers next week? I need to set it up with the agent for a day & time. This way you can look at buying something now.

2. You almost ruined my relationship this weekend and I don't appreciate it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You told DS not to talk to A and DS told her that and that you were mad at her and hated her. She didn't do anything wrong so please don't bring her or DS into it. DS doesn't need to know that you hate her, just like DS doesn't need to know I hate OM if you were to continue your relationship with him. I'll stop the name calling as well. Please don't take it out her. She means a lot to me. Just like you did at one time..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I want her in my life. But I would like you to be friends for me and DS. Please...........She does want to get along with you.

I just want peace already and to move on.

Sorry for the pain. I really like her and she likes him. I know its not easy but please try. I'm doing the same.

Lets just try to be friends.....Please.

I am so ANGRY right now. We never agreed to ANYTHING as far as a settlement goes!!!!!! He NEVER mentioned a refinancing loan and I have made payments for the last three oths that he hasn't cashed!

He has some kind of balls to send me this at work! ARGHHHHHH!

I informed him that the last conversation I had with DS was to enjoy the time he had with DAD and his GF. GOD, I HATE HIM RIGHT NOW!

I told him that I wasn't going to settle and that I wanted the name of the Mortgage person that he dealt with. I also told him that I wanted a key so that I could get my stuff out of his house. How can he be such an insensitive BA*[censored]?!?

Then he has the NERVE to accuse me of causing problems in HIS "R"!!!!! What an insecure selfish SOB! I never even met the woman.

Then I REALLY LB"D and you know what? It felt WONDERFUL!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I told him that he was a worthless piece of Sh*T that didn't deserve me. I told him that I wished that he and his GF have a long HAPPY life together because I surely don't want ANY part of a person that could be so manipulative and conniving! Here I am beating myself up for running to another man, when at the same time I neglect to remember what a spineless, [censored] he was!

Then I told him that he was a fu*king liar and that last Sunday he could careless that I lived or died. I told him to stop trying to make himself feel LESS guilty by telling me that he and his GF WANTED to come and HELP me! WHAT A JOKE!

I just want him to completely HURT right now! I know that this is not the "Graceful" thing to do, but you know what? He has HURT me for too long and I have stood by and blamed myself for HIS shortcomings. I want for HIM to FEEL THAT PAIN!

What A BAST@RD!

Well,

Last night the saga went on-and-on-and-on. XBF called me several times to see how I was doing. I am just so confused by this because he keeps telling me that he wants to move on, and for me to let go, but at the same time, he continues to rage about the details of the "A".

I calmed down after a while last evening so each time he called I was able to keep my composure. If he wants heis freedom so badly, WHY did he keep calling me to argue and fight? He was so caught up in his anger that he was literally acting like a two year old throwing a temper tantrum!

I'm so confused by all of this. He tells me that he wants to have her in his life, and when I say okay I am going to support you in this, he starts ranting about why I want to fix it and how confused he gets about my actions.

What should I do here?

I am willing to settle the house, just not for the $ amount that he offered. I feel that 30% is a reasonable amount, and he is accusing me of being selfish and out for myself! I told him that if I was that way, I would have stayed in the house and fought him for EVERYTHING! Instead, I let him have it all because I didn't want to inflict even MORE damage to him.

Right now I just feel like running away again. I will not do it, but I am really finding it hard to stay in my anger and find the truth behind the conflict. I don't want to fight with him, but I feel that if I don't stand up for myself, I will be steamrolled again.

I agreed to meet with his GF, and now he is afraid that I will try to break them up. Where does he think that I would have the power to do something like this? To be honest, at this point in time, it will be just a matter of time before his ANGER destroys him. He told me last night that everyone is remaking on how different he is since I left, and he said that he didn't care what people thought of him.

I see a VERY WOUNDED little boy that is headed for serious trouble. I want to help, but he won't let me. I am so sad for all of us, and I just want it all to go away. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hi All.

Interesting development in the robbery......

It seems as if the one of the persons suspected in the neighborhood breakins was killed in a police chase. From ehat I've heard, the police came across this guy breking in a house, he ended up leading them up on to the freeway (headed in the wrong direction) and killed two other people when he hit them head on!

When it rains, it pours.

Kily,

What a terrible thing for two innocent people to be killed by this man. It makes you wonder doesn't it?

As for your interaction with exBF, I think you need to do as we were discussing. Meet with GF, get the house issue sorted out, and then settle back. You, can only do what you can do. You cannot deal with his issues. He doesn't want to let go of what happened and I can understand that to a point.

However, it isn't helping him and it isn't helping you either. As I posted to you earlier, you need to let him heal. You have apologized. You have shown him the changes and growth in you, now it is up to him to grow.

I still think that this GF is probably a transient thing. I believe she is his first since you left, right? That certainly explains the pain and damage doesn't it? So, let this relationship go its way.

As I said before it is important to his healing,and to the future of you two together. He needs this to resolve his issues, and if they aren't resolved, then you will not have a good relationship with him.

Must go. Have a good Thanksgiving.

God Bless,

JL

Kily,
I've read through your posts, and I'm sorry for all the pain and upset you've had lately. Life sure can be difficult at times.

I don't have much advice to offer, but one thing seems certain. Your exBF seems to have some sort of interest in you. He calls to check on you, etc. My exH hasn't EVER called to check on me since he moved out over two years ago. Never once, even when he knew I was quite ill. I think
there is hope for you. I see the GF relationship as transient too.

I think that you and I need to simply focus on being the best we can be, (how cliche!!)showing our continued devotion to our 'ex's', and remembering some of the AA sayings. "Let go, let God", comes to mind. OH and ...'One day at a time'. (I'm not in AA, but I have long admired many of the sayings...."one is too many, a thousand is not enough")

It's easier said than done! I still feel my life is a nightmare, but at least it's a liveable one for now.

You have taught me a lot, Kily. Please know that you've helped me immensely, and you've pointed out many things I never would have come up with on my own.

Have a great Thanksgiving,
H_P

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the love and support. I am feeling MUCH better and I'm really looking forward to a nice quiet holiday tomorrow.

I've just been wondering about this argument/Anger cycle that keeps happening between XBF and I. It seems as if he is like a bull dog and once he digs in, he just can't seem to LET GO of the fight.

I appreciate the fact that he is angry, and he still HATES me with all of his might. I'm just VERY confused as to WHY he wants to ARGUE. It gets to the point where I actually hang up the telephone on him because he is so completely out of control. He calls right back and continues right where he left off. This cycle repeats several times throughout the argument period. I know that he needs to vent, but is there something I can do to help us get to a more positive exchange. I feel so hopeless that we will ever be able to speak to each other.

Today I asked him if we could go to counseling together to just learn how to talk to each other. He seemed receptive, but he's leary that I'm trying to "Get" him to change his mind about the "R". I tried to assure him that I only want a better way of communicating with him.

I feel like everything I do is the WRONG thing!

To be honest, at this point, he doesn't even see me as a human being. I am literally a target for everything negative that happens. What I wish for in this moment is to simply have him recognize that I am human, and I do have feelings. It hurts so badly to be utterly written off the way he has. Just this morning he called again, and we got into ANOTHER huge fight!

I haven't called him at all, and have honestly been avoiding his calls because they are so demanding and punishing. What can I do to distill this situation. I sincerely want to be at peace with him......

Do you all think that the request for counseling is unreasonable?

Kily,

It is very clear that his counseling hasn't really addressed some of the core issues he has with himself and you.

In my humble opinion counseling would be good, if you find a good counselor.

In the meantime when he calls simply ask: "Is this to be a discussion or an arguement?" If he starts to argue, simply state "fine you win the debate" and then hang up. Don't argue with him, don't get angry, simply cease dealing with him.

That is my best suggestion.

Have a good Thanksgiving,

JL

Hi All,

I'm in quite a lot of pain today so I have a feeling that this will be a LONG post.

Well, Thanksgiving went pretty well, all things considered. XBF and I were arguing about DS and where he would spend his day. I am feeling VERY threatened by GF's presence in general, so it was painful for me to allow DS to spend TG with DAD and her at the "FAMILY's" house. I did allow this though, because I looked deep inside and I realized that my insecurities were stemming from the fact that "she" was where I am wanting to be. I was punishing all of them because I was not getting my way. I decided that DS and XBF deserved to be together, and that I would be showing them both that I loved them by stepping aside. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

It was difficult to make that call and tell him that I was allowing DS to go with them. He asked me what changed my mind, and I told him that I didn't want to talk about it and asked to talk to DS. (The fact is that I was in tears and I didn't want for him to hear me cry AGAIN!) After talking with DS I hung the telephone up. DAD called me four times after that and left me two messages to say THANK YOU for allowing this. I didn't hear from them for the rest of the night.

Today I called to say hi to DS, and XBF hits me with "I'm going to a wedding, Saturday. Can you watch DS all weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Haven't I given him enough this week? First he hits me with an email that he wants to settle the house, then Thanksgiving, and now a wedding. I feel so invisible.

Right now I feel so mixed up inside. I'm sitting here at work, just crying, because I am so completely lost. I know that I should be at the point where none of this should be bothering me, but I can't help getting caught up in the feeling that fourteen years of our lives means nothing to him any longer. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> He has gone and erased everything that we ever had together, and has completely replaced me with his GF. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Why didn't I ever measure up enough for him? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

The other day we were at the ice skating rink and I happened to look at his hand. For some reason, I had this psychic flash that his wedding band was supposed to be on his hand. I could see the gold band as plain as day mounted in his finger, and I found it very strange that this was missing from his hand. So bizarre because he never married. I almost had the impression that this was something forthcoming in his life. I just wasn't sure if it was going to be me putting that ring on his hand.

It just made me think how much I really want to committ and share my life with him. Pretty dumb desire, considering that he has moved on and is VERY happy with her.

Sometimes, I wish I can just go back into the FOG because at least then, I wouldn't feel this pain. The thing that I keep struggling with is "Why is his moving on so painful to me now, when I was completely capable of walking away last September? Why did it take him less than 8 months to replace me? Why can't he see that I want the same things that he does and that if he gave me the "gift" of an attempt at a reconcilliation that he would receive the gift of "me" in return?

I believe in my heart that he has very deep feelings for me. Why can't I touch that place and draw it out? Instead, he closes it off even more and drives me away with all of his might. Why am I still believing that he has feelings for me when he has made it so VERY clear that he has MOVED on and has no interest in me AT ALL?
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Am I wrong to still want this? Should I still carry the hope that the damage is not too severe?

Okay,

This is to Bizarre! What do I make of this?

XBF calls me up at work and we calmly talk about EVERYTHING going on in HIS life right now. This was just so strange. He kept telling me over and over how he is having the time of his life right now, and how he is living for himself for the first time! These are things that I have been trying to tell him that needed to change in his life. He talked about the anger and pain that I caused him. He then expressed sorrow at how he felt he had to LOVE everyone and didn't have enough to go around. He expressed his anger at the person that I was while we were together and we talked about what my "gift" was to him yesterday. I asked him what that action meant to him, and he was able to see VERY clearly that exact change that I wanted so desperately for him to see. Basiaclly, I wanted to offer him the LOVE that I never did, and the support that I never could. He worded it all himself so I know that he finally recognizes it!

Then I was able to express that I had a hard time dealing with the fact that he was now living a life that we should have been experiencing together. He told me that he agreed, and had I just taken a chance on him, instead of staying in the FOG, that things could have been this way for us. The exact statement that he made applied directly to us today so I said to him: "You know, I feel that way now. That if you just take a chance on me, we could have a great life."

We both remarked at how wonderful it was to be able to sit and really talk and listen to one another. I told him that it had been years since we talked this way. Even thoush he talked about her and how much he cared for and loved her, I told him that it was okay to share because I wanted to really listen to him.

I told him that I am here for him and that if he needed to talk to me day or night, all he had to do was to pick up the phone and call. He didn't really understand what I meant when I said that I'd be there for him, but I think he needed to hear that.

I got the sense from this phone call that he is involved with this woman, and he is sincere about is relationship with her. I also feel that there are certain things that he is struggling with about me. I'm still VERY confused about it all, but I have a feeling that if I can simply be supportive of his "R" with her, it will help him open up to me and trust me again.

He told me about their holiday together, and stated that he knew how hard it must be for me to listen. I told him that it wasn't hard for me to listen because I missed having him in my life. I told him that being able to talk to him this way was something I missed for too many years. I told him that I know what he is feeling towards her right now, because I have recently walked in those shoes. I told him that I don't blame him, and I sincerely want for him to be happy. I guess for the first time in four years, I felt as if we were friends again instead of enemies. He isn't really that demanding, overbearing, monster that has been looming over me for four years. That is why I believe it is worth investing the time in to rediscover each other.

GOD I've missed him.

Funny how the rollercoaster goes. Just when you are about to give up, something happens to remind you of what it is that keeps you here.

Hi Guys,

Decided to change the thread name. I hope you all don't get lost!

Well some interesting small developments in the life of KILY.

I feel as if I am on the verge of another Epiphany about things. Slowly something has been working it's way to my consciousness, and I have been in so much pain, I have not been open to recieiving the message. JL i believe that it is directly in effect of the things that you have been trying to get me to see. TIme will tell.

Anyway since my last posting, the bizzreness continues. XBF and I seem to be getting along better than we have in years. I feel like I've regained that "friend" that I lost during the course of our "R". I see the person now that I haven't seen in years, and it makes me really WANT to spend MORE time with him, talking to him, and sharing with him.

We don't have much contact, but when we do I feel the caring that is there between us.

Interestingly enough, I had to work a full day friday. It turns out that my Boss let us out early. I was planning to pick DS up at 6:30 and since I had some time to kill I went XMAS shopping. Later XBF informed me that DS was restless so he took a chance on driving up to my JOB (1/2 hour from where they live) so DS could see me! I was so sad that I wasn't there! My heart broke because I thought for sure I ruined any potential of this happening again. XBF said not to worry. He figured he would come on a whim and didn't get angry or accusatory that I wasn't where I said I would be. I JUST WISH THAT I WAS! What a LB deposit that would have been for both of us.

Then on Saturday while we were at ice skating, XNF started to question the pants that I was wearing. They were very different from the style that I normally wear. Enough so that he felt the need to comment. We laughed about it because I have always been VERY picky about what I wear. He and I both remarked at how cute the jeans were that I was wearing, and we laughed about the whole thing. Then he inquired about my family - ( I keep very little contact with them ) and he suggested that my mom was not going to be around forever. I told him that I appreciated what he was saying, and that I wasn't holding grudges, but that I simply didn't want to be around that type of environment. I'm at peace with letting go, and I have a hard time conveying that to him.
Then I asked him to look at me and see if he notices anything different. He looked at me for a long time and said "NO". I said: "I'm growing my hair long again, just like I promised I would." He said to me "Why would you keep a promise to me. You don't owe me anything anymore." I told him that I was happy with who I was and that the short haircuts were a part of the identity thing that I have been going through. i told him that the unhappier I became, the more I wanted to change, but I wasn't sure what needed to be changed.

DS then told me that Grandma told him that I didn't like him anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I told him that I'm sure that she didn't mean to say that. I told him that I think that she feels that I don't like THEM anymore. THen I told him that this wasn't true but that Grandma was sad because she doesn't see me anymore. i asked his dad, in a loving supportive way, what this was about. He told me that he tried to get to the bottom of things yesterday but couldn't get a straight answer from either of them. I'm not sure what to make of this, but I simply asked DS what he thought about my feelings towards everyone. After he answered in his words, I told him to remember that the next time that someone said something like this. I hugged him and let it be.


Then today I receive an email. Just one of those joke ones, but with a message that said he wanted to start my week off with something funny! I haven't responded because I have nothing funny to return. I want to, but I don't want to come across as desperate and needy. I don't want to ruin this "new" situation between us.

One thing I realized yesterday was how much I missed sitting with him and just sharing a moment in time. I miss having the family that we built together. I miss HIS family. I want to settle down with him and rebuild. I want for HIM to WANT this too.......

Is it possible with everything that has happened? I still want to believe that it is.

Hi All,

I'm really starting to get confused about all of this stuff. I'm seriously considering contacting the priest at the church XBF and I used to attend together. I am hurting so much and I'm not sure what the right thing to do is anymore. We had turned to the church once before, when XBF wanted me to abort DS and I refused. At that time, the priest actually encouraged me to move out and go live with my family in WVA! I'm hoping that because of the knowledge of the history there that I could get some spiritual guidance on this. I'm just wondering what is wrong with me that I had to run away and couldn't get to Marriage with this man. It really is all I ever wanted and because I couldn't get to this, I felt like such a failure.

Monday night I was out with DS, Christmas shopping and I ran into a couple that were "friends" of ours a few years back. When I told then about the break up they both seemd very sad and disappointed. The reaction really influenced me in very suprising ways because it actually magnified the feelings that I am having of loss and regret that we ended this.

This started me thinking again about what is important to me, and I am filled with this overwhelming urge to go home to my family. I want so much to be a complete unit again. I want to work as a team to make goals and share dreams with them. I want to be the person that I AM with them, and for them to feel the same around me. No more judgements, or blaming! I want to sit home with them on a cold winter's night and just watch the snow fall from the sky. I want to shovel the driveway the next day and play in the snow like we did so many years ago. I want to show complete devotion to XBF and give him the LOVE that he deserves. I want so much for him to want this too.
I want him to be PROUD of me for overcoming all of my faults.

Why did I get SO lost?

I am receiving daily emails now. They mainly center around the events of DS and stuff. At times they are VERY painful to receive because they are descriptive of the events that I want to witness, but am not allowed to. I'm trying so hard to just let go and accept the "gift" of his friendship without expecting or desiring more. Sometimes this is VERY difficult.

Here was his latest email:
Morning KILY, DS took a bath this morning and I dressed him in the same outfit with the dog sweater. He wanted to wear it again. I did remind him to give the old pictures back.

In his bookbag I put in the lego jacket and the yellow jacket since you have the outfits to go with them. The lego zipper is broken but not the zipper part just the tab for the puller.

I also made him a snack.

He also has swimming in the afternoon program today. He will go to the Y at 4pm, go swimming, and then back at Oranage Ave at 5:30PM. So if you pick him up before 5:30 you need to go the Y.

He saw himself in the video last night and laughed and was so proud of himself. I'll make a copy for you. It also has the Thomas trip on it. You'll like it.

Have a good day.
XBF

Yesterday DS put on a show with his kindergarten class, and both of us attended. It was a really hard thing for me because it brought home to me just how much we have lost as a family. I kept thinking to myself that we both should be working on fixing this for DS! I could tell that XBF was also affected because he had that crease in his brow that he gets when he is very upset or angry. I just wasn't sure if this was because I was there, or that he might have been feeling similar things.

I just WISH with all of my heart that he would give me an hour a day!

Have I completely LOST my chance at this?

Kily,

No, I don't think you have lost your chance. He is communicating with you, he is being civil around you.

But, Kily I must return to somethings you said. You two were never a family. He didn't want to marry you, he didn't want your son, and he didn't have any idea what to do. What you are remembering is more of a fantasy than a reality.

I am not trying to make him out to be the bad guy. He is who he is. You are who you are. I realize that you two had many good times together how could you not over this period of time.

Kily, when I read your posts and see how you are growing, I wonder if he is the right man for you. I wonder if you are the right woman for him. I don't know that you are not meant to be together, and I think you will be very unhappy if you don't give this your best shot, but don't force a round peg into a square hole.

Let this develop, but realistically assess it as things evolve. It is important that you two be friends for your sons sake. But, it is also important that if you two end up together that you both have what you want and NEED.

So give it time, enjoy the season, enjoy your son, and Kily, celebrate your growth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

Hi All,

Just when I thought I was done posting here, something happens that totally leaves me wondering.........

I have gone into the "silent friend" mode in regards to XBF and his life. I have been doing what I can to be supportive of his wants and needs in life, and have basically resolved myself to developing my own interests WITHOUT a man in my life (for the first time since I was 13 years old). I'm sure some of you can imagine how hard a task this is after isolating yourself for so long......

Well Saturday morning we had the usual swimming lessons, XBF and I sat near each other, and we exchanged greetings, but that'a about all. After a while I mentioned to him that my mother was planning on buying a house in WVA and moving there in two years, after her retirement. All of a sudden he starts telling me what I should be doing for her. I am utterly suprised, but listen and add my input when I feel it is required. After listening to his suggestions, he even asked me if I would mind if HE called her to see if she would listen to HIM! I told him that this would be fine.....maybe they would talk about me and how much I've shared with her about rebuilding......

He even went so far as to suggest that I take a cruise with just HER and ME to Mexico. He seemed to think that she and I need to heal things with each other.......(I'm thinking....Inseret you instead of my mother and I see what this is possibly about) This is the second week that he has pressed this issue. I'm really trying to understand WHY it is such an issue with him.

Then we leave for ice skating. I decide to run to buy breakfast for us, and meet up with them. Once DS was settled in, Dad and I sat on the bleachers in silence for a while. After soem time had passed, he floored me with his next commentary.

It started out with:
"Do you know what really hurt me? You running off to MAUI, all of the lies, and then you running off to Vegas. The worst part for me was that I really care(d) about you then as I really cared/care for you now." I moved down the bleachers until I was sitting at his feet. I looked up at him with genuine tears flowing down my cheeks, and I said to him "Every day I wish that I could take all of this back. I regret everything I did then. I'm truly sorry."

He talked about his feelings and expressed how much OM and I hurt him. After a while I said to him that when I went to Maui, I was VERY ANGRY at him. I told him that I had tried desperately to change the situation and no matter what I did, nothing was working. He interpreted this to mean that this trip was a way of punishing him for all that had transpired before. I suppose it was, but that wasn't the motive in my heart when I made the decision to go.

I told him that for me, MAUI was my way of forcing a change in my life. I told him all of the other details and feelings behind all of it, as I have done so many times before, and fell silent again.

Then he started on the topic of OM. He laid his conclusions out for me to see. His view was that OP was someone that I have been carrying a torch for from the time I was seventten. He felt that I always cared for him, and when OM came back in contact with me after seven years to apologize, it fanned the flames. He then asked me "Where is OP now?"

I can see why this situation is hurting him so deeply. Although what he said is not the "truth" as I know it to be, I can see why he believes it. Basically, if this thought is true, then he can jump to another conclusion which is that since I was holding a candle for OP, then I was never REALLY in love with him. This is pure BU!![censored]. I tried to address this, but he blocked what I had to say. Either he isn't ready to deal with it, or he simply doesn't want to hear my side yet. It's okay though. At some point I believe he will ask again. I also informed him that OM WANTS to be in my life. I am the one that decided that I didn't want him there. I told XBF that OP simply wasn't the man for me.

I then told him that all I ever wanted was what I want today: To be his wife, have his children, share in creating our life TOGETHER as a team. I offered to support the household while he went to school to get his degree, as long as he worked a part time job at night to supplement the food costs. I wanted a combined checking account where we ran the household TOGETHER as a team. I told him that I wanted to WORK OUT our differences, and get to the love and COMMITMENT level that we both seem to be seeking, but not able to obtain. I want the deep friendship back that we lost.

He laughed at me in a sarcastic way and responded with: You weren't feeling that way when you ran off with OP to Maui.

I told him that this was simply not the truth.
How can I get someone to understand the complexity of pain that led to this decision?
I'm not trying to defend myself, the choice was not the right one. I wish in hindsight that I just took a chance and let him see how deep the pain really went. I know I tried, but he wasn't ready to see it.

How do I explain to him that I was in SO MUCH pain from living so many years with him, and not getting to commitment with him. How do I tell him how worthless I felt, and how I shut my "real" deepest feelings off because I "knew" in my heart that we would NEVER change? How do you express to someone that you get so afraid of losing something that you build walls to protect yourself because you know that eventually the loss will happen? That when this loss happens, you know that the pain will be so overwhelming that it's completely maddening. Instead, you numb yourself to it and pretend that everything is fine.

How do you get someone to recognize that after trying to "fit" into the mold that he envisioned for so long, I simply didn't know how to do it any longer. That I literally drove myself into depression because I didn't want to face the "truth" that he was never going to accept me for the person that I was. That my life was a fantasy that I had been living in, with hopes of someday actually being a part of a real family.....

The last thing that I said to him was:

"I have made many mistakes in my life, and I'm sure I will make many more. The fact is I am human. I can only learn form them and move forward."

Why does he keep covering the same issues? What does he need from me that I am not giving him?
Is he looking for some change in my story that will convince him that I am the LIAR AND CHEAT that he believes me to be? If he ash MOVED on as he says, Why is he still rehashing things? Is he looking for forgiveness?

I mentioned before that I want to make an appointment to see the preist that baptised me into his parish. Does anyone think that inviting XBF to this meeting is a productive thing?

At soem point I need to open up more about the Vegas trip. I mentioned to XBF that I had a legitimate reason for going there, and I do. He said that there was NO reason in the world that he felt could justify a trip like this. I told him that he didn't have all of the facts, but that I wasn't emotionally ready to open up yet.

It's very difficult to talk about, and at some point I will be ready. I'm thinking that talking with Father Tom will help me to get the strength and support I need to make this decision.

All for now. Happy Monday.

Kily,

I think he is covering the same issues over and over, because for the first time he is starting to react with conscious thought rather than out of pain. He isn't yet ready to face that he wasn't a perfect BF. That he did indeed hold you at arms length, and you bolted from his grasp. He seems to be just entering the questioning and thinking phase.

Just recall it probably took you years to get to this phase rather than just reacting out of pain.

Kily, you are doing very well. Just don't sell yourself short in this relationship. It seems to me that both of you will need to start afresh and with a wholy different perspective of each other and each others strengths.

Must go, but hang in there "Young Grasshopper", you are doing far better than you think. I believe that you will have this thing settled to your satisfaction sooner than you imagine.

God Bless,

JL

Kily,
I can only second what JL said. It seems that you have come a very long way these past few months, haven't you?

Please take care and thanks again for the inspiration you've given me.

God Bless,
Hopeful

Hi All,

Quick questions for you all......

XBF just called me to verify that I was picking DS up this evening. He was calling me from a mall somewhere and made it a point to tell me that he "left work early" to go Christmas shopping.

I called his job because a warning bell was ringing inside. Turns out that my suspicions are correct - he didn't work at ALL today.

The questions I have are:

Why did he feel the need to hide this information from me? He made it plain and clear that he is in a "new R" and that I am no longer a part of his life.

Why is the fact that he lied to me about it bothering me so much?

How did I pick up the fact that he was lying when I really had no reason to doubt him.

Why am I checking up on him when he is NO longer a part of my life?

Kily,

I am curious. He calls you and says he "left early" and is Christmas shopping. What about this statement made you call his work and check on him?

Whether he was there or not is of no moment to you.
That he was setting up picking up son was.
Christmas shopping shouldn't have been a problem either.

So I am curious why did you check?

He isn't a bad guy for doing any of these things. So are you holding him to some new standard? Are you expecting him to lie, so you check up on him to confirm it? Is the GF friend still bothering you, so you don't give him any slack?

Just really curious about this as you are as well.

God Bless,

JL

JL,

You wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am curious. He calls you and says he "left early" and is Christmas shopping. What about this statement made you call his work and check on him? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This whole phone conversation is one that I've had with him thousands of times in the history of our relationship. All I can say is that there was something in the tone of his voice that sent the all familiar flutters in my stomach that tip off that he is lying. I was calling to verify whether or not my instincts were correct.

I'm just puzzled as to why the fluttering was happening in the first place. Why should I care WHAT he is doing? I am really not ANGRY and I wasn't doing it to point out a finger at him and say SEE YOU LIE TOO! It just more of a curiousity to know if I could trust my gut. I hope that makes sense.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He isn't a bad guy for doing any of these things. So are you holding him to some new standard? Are you expecting him to lie, so you check up on him to confirm it? Is the GF friend still bothering you, so you don't give him any slack?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I agree he's not a bad guy for doing any of those things. I'm not really judging him. I am more confused as to why he had to hide the truth. What is so hard about telling me he took the day off? Why say anything at all?

Some deep part of me wants to believe that he is lying because he still is not 100% gone and he feels some small obligation towards my feelings. I know that this is foolishness and will only bring me pain. Right now, that's all I have to hold on to.

After going through my own issues about lying and self protection, it really hits home when I am on the receiving end. I know what my motivations were for telling my lies, and I'm trying to understand what his motivations are for telling his. I'm hoping to understand his vulnerabilities better, and understand the dynamic that is present here.

As far as his GF is concerned, at times I am bothered that DS calls her and tells her he loves her on the telephone. I hold that pain to myself and tell him that I'm glad that there are so many people that love him in his life. Truthfully, I try not to think about her or them as much as possible. I'm truly happy that he has found something that makes him feel great, but I am still sad that we are where we are.

This is the type of slack that I have given to XBF:

I have given XBF all of the space that he has requested. In fact, I do NOT even call XBF any longer. Basically, I am living my life, and loving him from a distance. He has now adopted a routine of calling me at a certain time every day +/- 5 minutes. He is the one opening the door to conversations about our past. He is the one that is offering to shovel my sidewalk after a snowfall. He is the one that calls when his job overwhelms him.

I am the one that patiently supports him through all of the turmoil in his life. I am the one that offers to help take care of the small things when he is buried to his arms in responsibilities. I remind him that I am here for him if he ever needs to justy pick up a phone and scream or cry. I try to build him up when he is low. I try to let him know in a non-demanding way that I am there for him.

He notices, says thank you, and reminds me that things are different now.

Here is an email I sent to him a few days ago when he called in a very frustrated mood about his job. He voiced to me that work was no longer fun and that he needed to get out of there:

In thinking about your current dis-satisfaction with the demands of you know what, I just wanted to tell you what I think about you:

In the many years that I have spent knowing you, I have seen a person that goes WAY THE HE!! out of his way to get the job done. You give it your all and then more. You are an amazing man that is completely competent and self reliant, and at times I am in awe at how much you accomplish because of your dedication. You have inspired me to strive harder and to try to become the best person that I can be. Lord knows that this is a long and diffcult task.

What I'm trying to say is that I BELIEVE IN YOU. I know that no matter what you set your mind to, you will not fail.

I hope that these words have helped. They are meant from the heart.

The funny thing is that this morning on my way to work, I was listening to the song "field's of grey" by Bruce Hornsby.

I was reflecting on the lyrics in this song and it triggered a memory in me of something I read. The lyrics went:

When I was younger I saw things in black and white, Now all I'm seeing is sad hazy grey, Sometimes I see a narrow flash of light, Sometimes I look and you show me the way......

Then I though about this passage in a book that said that you weren't truly an adult until you let go of the black and white and realized that life was completely grey......

After thinking about this, JL ithought of the gift that you are in my life. I thought that YOU at times bring that flash of light into my life....Then I thought of XBF and I thought that for a VERY long time, he was the one that showed me the way. I found myself crying tears of joy because I recognized the blessing that he was and is in my life. All I wanted to do at that moment was to send him this:

XBF,

Your involvement in my life has brought me much happiness and joy. I know that we have been through some VERY dark times together as well. The darkness may have clouded the memories for a small moment in time, but they were regained after the clouds drifted by. This has not diminished the things that you have added to my world, it has only made the lessons more valuable . It is through knowing you that I have learned how to spread my wings and fly. It has helped me to feel touch of the wind on my face and the warmth of the sun in my soul.

Thank You so much for everything.

Kily,

I don't think you have to worry that your exBF has lost feelings for you. I am sure he has them. It may be that he will end up in a long term relationship with GF, but I somehow doubt it. She sounds like a very nice person. How do I know? Your son likes her. Kids are very good at seeing people for who they are.

My guess is that eventually your exBF will have to face his issues. I am sure he has faced some during the time you were gone. But, ultimately he must face them, and it may occur too late for GF to be there.

You know I thought about your black and white statement. I think part of is correct, as you get older you realize there are shades of grey. But that was the old days, to day we have color. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> What we have instead of the simple yes/no decisions are many varieties, shades, pastels. It is hard to get a good color match with so many options. Yet, the joy of all of this is seeing the complexity of things and how things work in strange and often lucky ways.

My father when he was in his 40's explain to me that the world was going to H*** in a hand basket. When I was in my 40's I tended to agree with him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
But, then I realized that my Grandfather probably thought the same thing and his father, and his. Why is it that we all reached the same conclusion? It wasn't that life was bad, it was because as you get older you see how things work, and they don't work as they should or advertised and certainly not as politicians would like you to believe.

But, Kily they do work, and interesting things happen, and those shades of grey are really just the shadows of what is going on in color. You just have to look harder and see the possibilities. They are facinating to watch.

I think you need to be looking for the colors and the good things. Just as I cannot really show them to you, your exBF cannot either. YOU have to see them. The complexities of these things have to interest you, but if they do, you will see the good things that can happen.

Things work in cycles Kily. I think you are on an up cycle. I must go.

God Bless,

JL