H4F:

"2long and SS, thanks so much for dropping in! 2long, hubby and I had a similiar sitch with the christmas lights last week, lol! I told hubby just to GET OFF THE ROOF and let me do it! It's just easier than arguing about it sometimes, hee hee. I do well not yelling and throwing things like I did when I was younger and dumber....but when I get extremely frustrated...well...the anger comes out and I yell. I working on it!! WORK IN PROGRESS!!"

I have days like that all the time! Like this am. Stayed home so I could help my W go through boxes 2 find stuff for her class this afternoon. I needed 2 get 2 work. So, we go through ALL the boxes in one of the rooms, and I start wondering what we're doing. Do I ask? No, that would tweak her gain knob (she was getting short with me as it was, for other s2pid things). Then, she has 2 go get a bird for BirdDay, and I have 2 stay home and wait for the phone guy 2 reattach our fone since the winds last night. She goes 2 the hardware store and picks up a space heater in the process, so she's gon a long time. Do I ask "why?" No. Instead, I don't get in 2 work until about 11:30 this morning, and have a lot 2 do. (...do I get right on it? NO! I POST, INSTEAD!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...who's fault is that?).

I worry about these incidents and the effect they can have on our "recovery". It's what I've done for all these years, and if I don't "speak up" if it starts over, neither one of us will ever be able 2 trust the other 2 be open and honest about how we're feeling...

I wasn't very "interested" in working on our M after this, and it wasn't even a big deal! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> (at myself, not her).

BTW, Pepper,
2long and I come around and we talk a lot, but I think you have done most of the work on this thread. I wanted to give you credit. I commented about Orchid on another thread, how much respect I have for her, and I feel the same about you. Too often we don't say what we think, and I wanted you to know how much respect and even admiration I have for you.

Actually I shouldn't tease 2long like I do, he may think I don't respect his contribution, but I do.

SS

SS:

I was thinking the same thing (between the 2 of us, we've got a BRAIN working on this! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

Pepper can really pack a lot of philosophical whallop in2 a few short lines! I wish I were so smart (but that's why I need half your brain 2 think with!).

"So, are you willing to wait as long as my wife waited? "

This isn't an "or else" kind of deal. I lost that kind of thinking when the fog cleared. I LOVE my husband, even just as he is...heck, even just as he WAS (but he was a LOT harder to live with then). There is no ultimatum...I'm not going to demand to have romance or I'm out the door. I'm pretty sure that even if this same cycle that's occurred throughout our entire marriage (ie not getting flowers or any romantic gestures until I'm at the point of major frustration over it) continued throughout the rest of our marriage, I'd still not get to the point of neediness that I was at when the EA began. I've learned a lot about filling MY OWN needs, even without hubbies help! I now recognize the warning signs of a draining love bank and know what to do about it.

These last few months I didn't do as I had been doing....I had been buying MYSELF flowers every couple of weeks and planning all the dates. It worked pretty well...I still was having my need met...not quite as well as I'd like, since I WANTED the gestures and dates to be from my husband, but it still worked. I just let it go for a few months for a couple of reasons. One...I wanted to give him a chance to do it. Two..I'm busier than all get out with taking my business to a store front.

Hubby does "get it" to a certain extent. He's changed in many large ways from the husband he used to be. The first year of our sons life he acted like he was the uncle. I was sooo frustrated, and he didn't help much. Romance wasn't even thought of...let alone civil appreciation for the huge job of raising our son and still making sure hubbies needs were met. I know I played a huge part in our marriage getting to the point it did...but it's also very true that hubby did take me for granted. He doesn't do that now, and I don't think he ever would again...nor I him. I think we've matured from our younger idea of what marriage was about.

Hubby is now a fantastic and completely responsible father. He doesn't play the uncle any more. If you were to put H and I on a marital scale...we would balance out in many areas, whereas before H would have tipped the scale on the financial responsibility area, but I would have tipped it on the parenting and household responsiblity areas. We're more of a team than we ever were.

This last year hubby has done TONS more around the house. Dishes and laundry, even sweeping the floor. He thought by doing that, and buying me candy bars on occasion, that he was filling my needs. I tried to explain to him that although I appreciate those things, and when I have a long, difficult work week it does feel good to know he's helping....it still doesn't even touch the romantic area for me. I think that frustrated him...he had been doing SO MUCH, and yet it didn't do what he thought it should do. I tried to explain again, that HIS needs are met by domestic service...not mine. I started trying harder to do those things, since I knew that met HIS needs.

Anyway...last night hubby did GOOOOOOOOD!!! REALLY GOOOD! I came home late...tired and grouchy. It's ALREADY been a long week because it's such a short one. I was working overtime trying to get caught up so we could take today off and xmas shop, and the rest of the week for Thanksgiving. Still a full weeks worth of work to do, but only TWO DAYS to get it done in. Anyway, I finally got caught up and went to take a bath. While in the tub son started talking about my christmas flowers and a letter on the bed. WHA?? I hadn't even gone in the bedroom since I'd gotten home! So, when I got all dried off I ventured in and sure enough, ,there was a single rose on my pillow with a sexy love note <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hubby says for christmas he wants me to write him a book of romantic ideas. I'm not sure on that one. For one thing I'm not sure I'll have the time...but I can certainly get it started and add to it as I think of things. But the other thing is that I don't want him just to pick out things and do what I thought up!! I want HIM to show some creativity. Ok...but back in reality land...although that would be NICE...I guess if I want to be realistic...giving hubby some ideas to go off of would show him what I think is romantic...and if he ventured off from there, wonderful...and if not...SO WHAT!!!

Ok...I wrote a novel now.

Lor, funny story! THANK GOODNESS it turned out to be MARSHALL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SS, I think my hubby gets some of it...and I know he really really wants to get all of it...so that's something. His attitude alone helps me feel loved. In the past he just didn't seem to care...no wonder I didn't believe he loved me!!

I re- read some of this, and then I thought about it for a couple of days and I've made a judgment. Here it is:
I believe you must be married <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Sure, laugh if you want, but it fits so well. I can't think of any other reason that would explain these problems you are having.

There is a thread I want you to read, ( I hope I haven't recommended it before.) I can't find it right now. I have the address stored at work, so will post it Monday. I searched for about 30 min., but this search engine is kind of - well, kind of ...... what's a nice way? It needs work.

You guys are coming along and I believe you will do well. It is good to hear the nice things about H, and there are many. I am impressed.
Hope, I believe there are some more things you can do, and I'll get back to you after I find that thread. In the mean time, listen to Pepper.

SS

PS, I'll give you a hint, it's not the thread about "Teenage Vixen Stewardnesses from Transalvania."
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hope4Future,

I am very sorry that you had a bad night. Your argument reminds me of the old Honey, learned from my Mom....

I used to get angry, very angry at my h, later in our M it turned to going to my room to cry... when he had hurt me.. b/c I wanted to stop being so attacking.... and honestly real early in our marriage I didn't know how to cry, but started it, and felt great relief... as a child I never got attention on how I FDELT,or voiced emotions like that ... b/c the answer would be... HOW I SHOULD be RESPONSDING... nonemotionally, etc. and with poise and responsibility..

Anyway, I think I acted childishly a lot to my h during arguments.. when the A came I came full swing back into anger.... and trying to punish by my actions.. even if I did not even intend it.

Now, I don't know if this helps you... but it didn't really help to rant and rave- the crying was a step... but my h would even get mad about that.. thinking it was a guilt trip thing.. or it meant he had to fix it.... which is wasn't it was my feelings, and I even went to another room to get away.. which would anger my h... if I locked the door... so be careful on that.. I just wanted to be alone.. but my h wanted to come in and argue.../ sometimes comfort... but how was I to know when his old style was to argue to.. possibly back with angry me? But who even knows anymore.

YOur extreme anger for not being treated lovingly, not being comforted, and being left alone... reminds me of me.

Now 14 months into a seperation... I have learned I have to take care of my own emotions.. my h cannot do that for me. I have to be OK being alone... I have to release him to his higher powere and I have mine. I can't control antoher human being.

The best hope is to calmly talk aobut my issues with my h when we both can do that... no fights, guilt trips, etc.

I hope you can learn a little from what I said.

I know how it feels to feel hurt and like the one you need the most to be there for you just isn't.. but like jd sd above perhps your h is just not getting it.

My mother still throws a fit when she is unhappy... I learned it well.. and my dad makes everything OK for her... she is still acting like a child... I am glad I am growing beyond that.... Honestly as a child, I acted like the grown up.. never overreacting or acting emotional for fear of punishment, etc.... and as a wife I let all those stuffed emotions out . . and thought my love of my life was here to let me hang it all out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Doesn't always work best.

We all learn on our own timetables- I hope you liked the flowers... and I hope it gets better.

It is hard not to be loved the way we need, just be grateful he is trying.... My h left and he had the A... he says he did it to get away from me... nice, huh?

Hugs to you,

Honey

Hope,
Here is the thread:
Discussion on fear, training spouse

You need to read the whole thing to get it all. The first few posts don't seem like much, but they set the stage for what JL says. There is more good stuff in the responses that follow JL right on to the end.

Here are some things to look for.

Why do we get so angry when our spouses don't get it?
Why don't they get it?
(hint, more than one reason)
What should we do when they don't get it?
(hint, "get angry" or "be hurt" is not the right answer)
How can we train them to get it? ( how can you train him to get it, and how can he train you to get it)
What battle are we really fighting anyway?

Can you find ways of reacting to the bad things Hubby does that will help him improve, or not just help him, but cause him to really desire to improve? Like that song " I want you to burn for me baby."

Read, and let me know what you get from it.

SS

I'm going to bump this up so I can find it if I get some time to read at work today. I'm open late on Thursdays for holiday shopping so surely I'll get caught up (HA!).

Wow! Very good stuff. I'd say it's stuff I've read and "heard" here before, but probly stuff I really still don't "get" in action. I think hubby and I were doing pretty well, but then after the anniversary thing I decided just to back off and see what happend for a while. I actually didn't need much "need fulfilling" for a while because things were so fast track for me with the business expanding and moving and all. But then by the time I noticed the need it had been quite a while and I noticed that.

So what I get from my reading is:

I need to start speaking up more and asking for my needs to be met.

I'm going to have to figure out the best way for hubby to meet those needs and make it as much priority to myself to speak up about it as I feel it should be priority to him to actually think about doing those things.

I need to start encouraging and praising hubby for what he does do.

Hubby and I both read His Needs Her Needs, but maybe I need to read the love buster book. I thought I got the idea of disrespectful judgments and the like...but I still haven't gotten the hang of how to ask for what I need or how to verbally appreciate what he does do.

Am I on the right track atleast??

Hi Hope,
I thought I would finish this one before I start on your other one. Besides, It sometimes takes me a day or two to work up to an answer, and often someone has already given a better one and then I don't have to type it out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wow! Very good stuff. I'd say it's stuff I've read and "heard" here before, but probably stuff I really still don't "get" in action.
I have always considered you to be one who understands. In fact that is one of the reasons you have the problem you are working with on the other thread. Your mind is quick and you are used to the answers coming so fast that you do the open mouth thing sometimes when you ought to think. ( I am worse than you, so I feel I can say that.)
Hmmmm, well, I am getting off subject, better get back.
Anyway, you are pretty sharp, but we all fail to apply logic to things that affect us emotionally. At least until we can get ourselves to react differently. The trick is to train ourselves to do things another way. Wow, this is closely related to the other, no getting around it. My main point here will be different though, so stay with me.

I think hubby and I were doing pretty well, but then after the anniversary thing I decided just to back off and see what happened for a while. I actually didn't need much "need fulfilling" for a while because things were so fast track for me with the business expanding and moving and all. But then by the time I noticed the need it had been quite a while and I noticed that.
I kept waiting after the anniversary trip for you to give us a resolution to what had happened, but it never came. When I heard you say to someone on one post that you were going to have to change your expectations, I worried. Sounded like a prescription for a blow up. ( remember, I have lived this part, and I know.)

So what I get from my reading is: I need to start speaking up more and asking for my needs to be met. I'm going to have to figure out the best way for hubby to meet those needs and make it as much priority to myself to speak up about it as I feel it should be priority to him to actually think about doing those things.
Yes, and this is what I came back here for.
I propose that you take H around for about 6 months and teach him how to get started. When you feel a need for something, grab him and take him to the flower shop, and show him all the different kinds, and let him pick something. Teach him about variety, and help him learn to be careful not to get wilted ones, and everything that is important to you. Show him how to pick a card to go with them. I know it sounds........well..... bad, but that's what I suggest. Show him how you go about planning a date. Teach him when to sit down monthly or weekly to do it, and train him to do it ( the planning, not the date) at the same time, same place. Get him in the habit of taking the time to put it together. The "what to do," and "how to do it" will come in time. At our house, we trade weeks. We have a date every week. One week, it's my turn, and one week, it's her turn. We have done everything from overnight camping, to sitting on the lawn at the middle school filling out EN surveys. We have gone to high school plays, quilt shows, and out to dinner. One of your needs is for him to understand that he needs to do the date, and other things on his own, just because he loves you and because it makes you happy. That part will come in time, at least I believe it will after he is comfortable - knowing that he knows how to make you happy.

After thinking about the farming part of your lives, that is part of his problem. You can get used to having tasks rule your waking hours. Often you have so much to do, all of it important that you just go do stuff, and keep doing it and you know it will never get done so you just go with the flow. I never did work for any of the corporate farm, agribusiness companies so that's the only type of farm work I was used to seeing. He needs to cultivate and care for his family as he does the land. It is after all, more important. Well, I t sounds like he has the care part down now.
When he thinks you are high maintenance, he is just expressing your differences. Because he doesn't have the same need, he doesn't understand that yours is different. He will get that in time also, if he is as good as you say he is. I believe you on that, because I don't think you would have married someone without good potential.

I need to start encouraging and praising hubby for what he does do.
That would be a good help. Praise for doing it right will do far more than telling him what he does wrong. Telling him what is wrong makes him gun shy. I believe Dr Harley has a story about that in one of the books, but my memory is so bad, I can't remember where it is...........now what were we talking about?

Oh yeah, you said John Deere was the only kind. That's what I drove mostly but one of my good friends had Massy Fergeson, and my dads cousin used International Farmalls.
Wait, did I get off track again?

Hubby and I both read His Needs Her Needs, but maybe I need to read the love buster book. I thought I got the idea of disrespectful judgments and the like...but I still haven't gotten the hang of how to ask for what I need or how to verbally appreciate what he does do.
YES, GET LOVE BUSTERS ! ! ! !
It helped me a lot, because once things were explained to me, I was able to see when I did it, and modify my own behaviors. I am still working on it, but my W said it has been months since I have caused any real problems. That may be part of the answer to the other thread you have started.

Am I on the right track at least??
I think you are doing really good. Like I said at first, you get the concepts better than most, but we all need work on getting them out of the books, into our lives. Don't think you are the only one.

It does get much better. It can be as good as Dr H says. Thanks to a special W, I get to live that some days. Thanks to me, she doesn't some days. Oh well, we are getting stronger and better. You are too, at least it looks like that to me.

So, to recap, not everyone drives John Deere's.
Oh, shoot, that's not it.
To recap, take him out and show him exactly what you want. Once he is comfortable and knows he can do it, let him take over. This will drive you crazy, but help him a great deal. I got this from someone else, I can't remember if it came from a book or a post.

Then, after he knows, then you can ask him what he wants, and he can show you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SS

<small>[ December 06, 2002, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

It's so funny you used the farm analogy...I actually thought of that one the other day! It always seemed to me that hubby had no problem dropping everything when the farm needed him. He always knew if the corn needed watering you watered it or else you'd lose the crop. I also knew that although losing the crops is a bad thing, it doesn't compare to losing your marriage! I wanted to take as much precedence as the farm did and I didn't feel loved because I rarely did. Hubby said on many occasions, I always thought there was more time, or I thought about doing XXX but I didn't have the time or opportunity. He's an excellent farmer, so I know he knows how to make the time when it's important.

But farming has been his life since he was a child. He KNOWS how to farm and although things change farming is certainly are more predictable than a spouse <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> So marriage doesn't come naturally to him, but farming does. I get that. Plus, he can see when the corn is drying up...if I'm stifling my feelings trying to be the good little wife...he can't see me shriveling inside. I need to learn to be a better judge of myself in that area and learn to SPEAK UP in an appropriate manner.

I'm definatly going to get lovebusters...I know I could learn a lot from it. I also like the idea of teaching him. It sounds so simple when you say it, but it really never occurred to me to help him pick out the kind of flowers I like. I just wanted the effort and thought from him...but if I want it how I like it it wouldn't hurt to show him!! It's a neat idea!

Since I posted this hubby has done MANY little things that have meant a lot to me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Little notes at work and at home. Flowers and gifts. He even did a special thing for our "anniversary" of being back together for one year!! It was really sweet and made me feel good! I know he wants me happy and I know he loves me...that's tons more than I felt a few years ago. Work and life certainly don't make it easy for us to feed our relationship, but we both know that we CAN make it a priority and SHOULD!

You're also right on the "quick to mind quick to mouth" thing too. Ideas and reactions spring forth QUITE rapidly for me...it's figuring out whether or not they're appropriate or the right thing to do or say that takes me quite a bit of time!!

Anyway, sounds like the family is home. Thanks for the thoughts!!