Hello. I am new and I'm sure, like many of you, am in desperate need of help. I haven't read through many of the posts b/c I'm so desperate for any help. It's been so long for me now and I'm tired of not having any answers.

My story is as follows:
I am a married mother of one child, and have been married 10 years. After 5 years of marriage, had an affair with a co-worker. This happened 5 years ago. The affair lasted 9 months before my husband found out, but still continued for a while after. Since then, my husband has forgiven me (I cannot praise him enough -- this man is beyond a saint) and we are still together. For the most part, I am very content with my life. I want to be with my husband but the hard part for me is getting over my affair partner. Every time I think I'm over him or think that I've found closure, some kind of emotional trigger has gone off inside me and I'm back to where i started.

It was very hard for me to end the affair and I'm so afraid I'll never get over it/him. I hate feeling this way and hate hiding it from my husband, but I don't want to hurt him anymore. It was hard enough on him, plus he's read things I've written about the guy when I tried to journal and it kills him. I hate myself for missing the sex and missing him. I hate that I cared for the guy and didn't want to hurt him. I hate that I cared for him more than my husband.

I'm so tired of feeling this way over him. I can't help how I feel, but nothing has helped. I've been to counseling and that really hasn't helped much. I've read a few books, but those haven't helped either. I've tried to reach out to others, but I just end up feeling insecure because no one understands or seems to care. So far, the only thing that I could relate to is the article on this site where the topic is not having sexual desire for your husband and the "electric fence" personality.

I know it hasn't helped that i had continued contact with the guy and that has only gotten me further in a hole. But I can't keep living my life like this. The past few months, i really truly thought I was in recovery, b/c i finally reached a point where I was content and wanted to have another baby. But it's kind of hard "trying" to conceive when you don't want to have sex with your spouse!

I'm so tired of having feelings for this other guy. I have so many mixed emotions about him. I go through hate, indifference, caring, sometimes love again! I hate that I feel this way and feel so ashamed and alone. I don't want to be with the other guy and my head can tell me all the commen sense stuff. But why do I feel this way? I want to get over him so bad and not care about him any more. I don't even want to hate him. I just don't want to care.

I don't know what to do. I can't take this anymore. I've been through so many bouts of depression with this and even went on medication a few times. How much more suffering do I have to go through? Why am I hung up on this jerk? Why can't i be turned off by him? I used to feel this way about him, but each time I went back to him, he manipulated me in some way and I kept blaming myself. I can't even blame him! Nothing negative i feel about him sticks. For some reason it all goes away. I have felt like an addict with this guy and now I feel co-dependent.

I'm so am my wits end. Can someone please help me so I can let go of this and move forward? I don't deserve this and neither does my husband or child. Are there any answers? I don't want to live the rest of my life just accepting that I'll never get over him.

Hi,

Welcome to MB. You have a forgiving H. YOu are doing better than most.

Please read the concepts section above. It will familarize you with some of the MB principals designed on restoring your M. The books Surviving an Affair and the book His needs/Her needs is helpful. Also taking the emotional needs questionnaire will help you refocus.

Find out what it is about the OM that keeps enticing you? Your fantasy or reality?

Do you have a good MC? If not, try phone counseling with Steve or Jennifer. They are qualified counselors.

As long as this system continues temptation will always exist around us. However where we focus our thoughts and keep our priorities requires individual choices.

Ask yourself this question, if your life were in danger who would you want besides you? OM or your H? Who would make the best decision for you and your family?

Another thought....can you change jobs?

JMHO and thoughts,
L.

<small>[ December 01, 2002, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Absolute, 100% no contact at all. That is how you do it. Remove him from the picture and work with your husband to help you rekindle that love and desire you had for him. You can never be with your husband,if everytime you are with him, you are actually thinking of the other man.

Move if you have to. Tell your husband that you want to be with him, but you are having horrible difficulty with the whole situation and need to get away, so that your marriage can remain. I know that if my wife had ever said something like that I would have been quitting work the next day. My family was always more important than my career. She didn't think so, but it always was.

But I am not sure that you really want to stay with your husband. If you did, you WOULDN'T stay in contact with the other man. NO CONTACT AT ALL is your only hope. The feeling of him will fade, the thoughts of him will fade if they are not renewed all the time. You will be able to see your husband for who he is, not who he isn't.

I hope and pray that you and your family will hold together and get through this, but it is up to you. If you are unhappy, then you will find a way to sabatoge your marriage. Continuing contact is exactly how you are doing it now.

I hate feeling this way and hate hiding it from my husband, but I don't want to hurt him anymore.

This is the part I have a problem with. Part of a succesfull marriage is RADICAL HONOSTY. You must be completely honost with your H no matter what. Even if you think it might hurt him. Think of it this way. If your H were to stumble onto this site and somehow find your post and realize how you felt, would he be more upset than if you had told him and maybe asking for help in getting over this OM? If you don't tell your H how you feel you are doing your M more harm than good.

BTW, sorry you have to be here, but welcome to MB. Keep us up.

Hard topic for BS to reply, let me try. I assume you already read MB basic concept judging from "electric fence" statement. Please don't make a mistake, my WW did and I would never want her again. Make sure you learn about MB inside out, read HNHN & SAA. Get marriage counseling, we are not professional, we are here only to lend our support if you want to safe your M and we give our oppinion. You are in the wrong board if you are looking justification for having A. There are plenty of fog talk on your post.

This is my 2¢. You know you do a wrong thing but you can't stop it. I sum it up in one word, addiction. You have to treat it like one !. Read up on "how A should end", NC is a requirement ... you can't be around/have access a drug dealer if you are a drug addict. Read up on "4 rules of recovery", it is a basic foundation of MB. After that find time to talk to your H, let him know that you need his help and fess up. Amends him ... if you have to switch job or move town to avoid trigger so be it. This is one reason why MB don't beleive in unconditional forgiveness, your love to your H is conditional and you prove it with your A. Listen, if you need one thing to sink in between your fog let it be this one ... "in-love" is very conditional. Give me a woman that is willing to coorporate giving care, protect, time & honesty and within 6 months I beleive we are going to fall "in love". The key is willing. The help is call SH or Jennifer you need it.

Please read up TrueHeart's post under my sig.

-rh-

Thank you all for your responses. I've already read the Concepts. I will read the books/resources in hopes they will help.

I forgot to put in my original post that I don't work with the guy any more; I stay at home. Just fyi.

A couple last thoughts...

To "redhat": 1)I am by NO MEANS looking for "justification of my A", rather am trying to deal with it. I didn't mean for my message to come off as a "poor me", and if it did, I apologize. That wasn't my intent. This is the first forum I've found that I've felt comfortable in sharing my story. Believe me, I have suffered from this and know what a mistake I made. I live with it every day and will live with it for the rest of my life. I think it's hard for the BS to understand any of this no matter how hard they try. They are the "victims" in this situation and no one is going to feel sorry for the betrayer. And why should they? Before this happened to me, I had my judgements towards others too. My husband loves me and forgives me and we deserve to be happy and that's what I'm looking for. I sought help on this forum -- not judgment. If I wanted justification, then I'd keep blaming my husband, but I believe I wrote that all I can do is blame myself. To me, that doesn't sound like I'm seeking justification.
2) I've already recognized that addiction aspect of it b/c I wrote it in my original post. Your insights are very correct though, with your drug dealer analogy.

To "Madly,Truly,Deeply": I have tried to be open to my H regarding this, but each time it backfires on me. Why would I want to hurt him again? He doesn't want to be with someone who can't get over another guy and I don't blame him.

Orchid, you had good advice and i will look into that. I want to get to the bottom of this.

I know the continued contact hasn't helped and I accept responsibility for that.

You all have given me things to do and think about. For those of you who truly tried to help, thank you. For those of you who are passing judgement, please rethink your thoughts before posting. I'm sure enough of the betrayers out there have had others get in their faces for what we've done. We don't need more guilt. We need to heal.

NO CONTACT. PERIOD. Then deal with everything else. Until this happens nothing will work. Have a strong enough character to STOP. Feelings for a non-entity are irrellevant. The OM is a non-entity...your husband is the real man.

To redhat: One more thing, thank you for suggesting the letter from trueheart. A real eye-opener. I feel like an idiot for writing what I posted. I need to read more of this stuff, but more importantly, I need for it to stick.

This is what I'm having problem with -- not only seeing the OM for who is really is but BELIEVING it. When i'm in this "fog" or whatever, everything negative about him goes away, even though I don't want to be with him. Hopefully, the more I read and learn, the more I'll understand.

It is like a heroin addict even though every vein is blown they know things would be ok if they could only get the fix. They cant really even get high they just dont want to get sick. So all the destrcutive reality of the addiction falls by the wayside. Only willpower, strength of character can stop the behavior.

The OM is the fix...not that things are utopia with him but the outside world doesnt actually exist in the same way that it does without him. It is not easy DT's suck. Reality isnt always pretty but one thing is a certain fact the addiction will kill the addict...no question...no 50/50 chance. The OM will kill the marriage. Extricate him from your life. There is nothing good about a man who would involve himself with someone elses wife. NOTHING. Now he has the chance to not be that man...that is up to you. You have to say goodbye to the woman that would associate with such a man. Mourn her and bring life back into your marriage. Not many get the chance you have...do everything you can to make the most of it.

Ok, I'm on my way to finding what I'm looking for. I just wanted to post this to those of you who were quick to respond to my dilemma, so that others experiencing the same thing can get a start to the answers they are seeking.

In reading the article on Plan A & Plan B, I'm already getting the insight I'm looking for. I don't feel so alone and crazy after all. I'm actually looking forward to reading his book "Surviving an Affair" and am very hopeful.

It's more than just telling someone to stop all contact. When you're in the fog, and addicted, as explained in the article, this isn't as simple as it sounds.

If you are to reply to another post to someone who is going through what I am, please refer them to this article first!

" don't deserve this and neither does my husband"

That is why you should tell your husband so he can make a decision to stay or leave this marriage. As long as you play this sleazy game behind his back you are still show complete betrayal of him. In my book action speaks louder than words. You may be trying to talk yourself into believing that you want to be only with your husband but the facts speak otherwise. Your husband has a right to know that you continue to behave as an adultress and to treat him as fool who thinks he has a an adoring wife. If you are truly serious about getting your life back on a right course be honest with your self and your husband.

Please,
I think you would be over the affair, so to speak, if you would have seen it more in reality's light of day. You broke it off relatively early, when there was still that true 'addictive' quality.

Mine lasted longer, was exposed to real life, I separated, and am now divorced. OM is gone (I broke up with him in July) and my exH will not forgive me or consider any sort of reconciliatory effort.

I don't have much to add, all the others here have said such good things. I will say though that perhaps thinking of my reality, being alone,full of grief for the family I destroyed,---might be a good way of putting the fantasy thoughts out of your mind. I hope that makes sense. As someone else here said, an A is simply an escape from life, the 'real' world doesn't exist.

You are so fortunate that your spouse forgives you. I NEVER thought my spouse wouldn't forgive me, took him for granted... and here I am--divorced. I realized far too late how much I truly, deeply loved my exH, although all along I knew the A was pure baloney.

Just my 2cents worth.

take care,
H+P

tommaz, obviously you did not read my whole post, nor did you understand it. Before passing judgement or giving your opinion, be sure to read the entire message, as well as the others. thank you.

Just another fyi, my h has known about the continued contact in the past and has tried his best to help me. I obviously left out some info in trying to tell about my situation in a condensed version.

I'm glad I came across this site and am finding the help I was searching for. HELP that is, not judgment.

PHM ... Deep down inside, do you feel worthy of your H's love and devotion?

I sensed a tone of self loathing in what you wrote. Do you love and like yourself? Do you feel proud of yourself as a human being? Do you see yourself as a growing, learning woman ... a woman you think is really quite okay?

You keep saying "I hate that ___ ", and then you mention something about yourself.

I get the feeling you are pushing your H away emotionally and sexually because you can't get over who YOU became during the affair. Keeping contact with the OP is not very nice. How can you feel good about yourself if you are keeping secrets again?

Open up and be emotionally naked .... to your H. Take a chance and drop all your defensiveness ... your emotional and sexual attachment usually will lie with the person who knows all your secrets.

Secrecy WITH your H will bring you closer together. Secrecy AWAY from your H will pull you apart.

Reading your 1st post was revealing to me ... where is your lioness roar? Where is the strong powerful woman? Where is the mature determination to face fears and push herself toward her own emotional growth?

Are you aware of how helpless you portray yourself? Is this intentional? Are you ready to throw off your cloak of weakness and run your own personal spiritual marathon?

Take care. How old is your child?

Pepper

Dear Pepper,
No I don't like myself. I hate what I've done -- to myself, my husband and my life. I do feel helpless -- until now. Now that I'm finding some answers (or feel like I'm on that path) I'm a bit more hopeful and feel like I will have some resources to finally (HOPEFULLY) help myself and especially to heal.

I've never felt good enough to be with my H. Even before any of this. That's how low my self-esteem is.

Part of me is trying to forgive myself and tell myself I do deserve him, but for the past 5 years, I've created a huge hole for myself and have been going round and round in circles of guilt I've created.

Why do you think I'm so frustrated? My counselor has been of little help these past few years. (In one session, she spent 1/2 hour talking about how to clean my wedding ring!) I don't need to be beat up anymore and I want to stop hating myself and hating who I've become.

I probably AM pushing my H away from me b/c I don't feel like I deserve him. We've talked about this before. Even moreso b/c he has forgiven me and has tried to help and has been so good to me.

I know I'm the one who's messed up. But i know I can't run away from this. If I were to leave him b/c I feel the way I do (about myself, not the OM), that wouldn't help b/c i'd still be messed up. I want to fix this and move on.

I'm just grateful I've stumbled upon this site. I really hope the information offered here will help me. thank you for your post.

Please Help Me --

Whoa, Everybody! Step back a pace or three. Here's someone who is asking for our help (read her Screen Name), not vitriolic judgments. We're usually much more accepting of the WS's. Read her cogent, sincere posts again...and again. What she needs is the same basic courtesy extended every day to the BS's. What she doesn't need at all is somebody coming down hard on her.

Why? Because she's hurting (#1) and because she's seen the light (#2) and because she's here on the MB board (#3). Also, it's a chance for us to A) understand more what's going on for the WS, and B) help turn her relationship around; the same thing we'd do for a BS in pain.

PHM: you've got some very good people on board here (Orchid, Redhat) who have been around the horn and back again on this site. They know whereof they speak. I'm glad you're among us now; we'll help you all we can, but we're really all just fellow sufferers, not professionals. Steve and the staff here are very good at what they do. I certainly recommend counseling, both individually and as a couple.

How can we help you the most? What do you need from us? Understanding?--well, you've got it. Sympathy?--that too; we are sorry you're hurting with this. A sounding board?--most definitely. What else?

Where some have a problem is certainly in the "nature of the beast," since almost all of the several thousand here are BS's. A natural, understandable, and rather obvious shield has gone up automatically and some responses reflect that bias. But we trust that clarity as well as charity reigns supreme and that we can give you the help that you both need and deserve.

Ammon

Please Help Me,

Don't let how you are feeling get you down. It's okay to feel the way you do, really it is. You are a human being, you have emotions, and you can't always be expected to be in control of them.

Right now my wife is in an affair with a man from work, similar to what you went through. She has been seeing him for 2 months now and will not stop. I'm not sure if she is planning to stop soon, and if she did, if I'll be able to forgive her. The longer it takes, the harder to forgive.

I will say this though -- If my wife said the things you are saying in these posts to me, I would LOVE to hear it. I really do believe you should tell your husband all of these things. Don't expect him to be overjoyed about the feelings you still feel for the other person, or that you still see him and talk to him, but trust me, he WILL be happy you were honest with him. It will make you and him feel SO much better.

You should maybe ask him at some time if he might like to sit and talk with you, and try and convey your feelings to him as you have been in these posts. It sounds like you have a great husband who loves you very much. I bet he is more than willing to talk about all of your feelings with you, or just listen.

All I got from my wife was continued lies after I found out about her affair, and it made it SO much worse. If she just would have sat down, and told me the honest truth about everything, it would have been so much easier to take.

So, from my point of view right now, as the betrayed husband, I can definitely say I'd love for my wife to say things to me like you've been saying in these posts. At least I'd know how she was feeling about me and our future. Let your husband know.

ALS

PHM,

Ok, let's slow down a bit. First, let's review what I think I have read. One, your H forgave you and although you apparently aren't very enthusiastic to be around him,sexually and otherwise for the past 5 years, he is still there. Second, you have had continued contact with the OM. Third, you still think of the OM fairly frequently.

Do I have this about right?

Ok, If you read here, as it seems you are doing, one of Harley's thoughts on the matter of affairs and contact is that they are very addictive. Yes, actually addictive. You get a pleasant response from seeing OM, and so you want to see him again. It is brain chemistry and it needs to be changed. How this is done is through NO CONTACT. Now, you will feel bad, and this period of time is, surprisingly, called withdrawal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Since you have been trying it your way, not having an affair but having OM around for 5 years, I think the data would suggest that continuing contact does not work for rebuilding your marriage or even making YOU happy. Oddly, enough although you are the wayward spouse (WS) it is important that you are going toward a goal that will make you happy.

So step one is to go to no contact. One, way of helping this is for you and yes your H to write or at least him review a letter that tells OM that you will have no more contact. This can be signed by both or you, and mailed by your H. This formal declaration of separation helps in several ways as you can imagine.

Now, as for you deserving your H. I think you are missing something very important and boarders on what is called a "disrespectful judgment" of him. (Please read about disrespectful judgements.) It is HIS choice whether he stays in the marriage or not. It is HIS choice whether he wants you for a wife. It is clear he has made HIS choice and YOU are who he wants as his wife. It is clear that he needs you in his life. It is clear that he loves you and it is clear that he wants you to love him.

YOU don't get to make that call. Your guilt, while well founded, is of no use in this situation. It is there to tell you that you ARE doing something bad and to stop it. So stop what remains of doing a bad thing and let the guilt go. If you feel remorse, then help your H build happy loving family.

PHM, there is much more for you to learn, but please accept these things as true. You can rebuild your marriage and be far happier than you have been or are, but you have to let go of OM and trust that your H really does love you. The data is all there.

This whole thing will take some time. Withdrawal from a habitual relationship such as you have with OM will probably take 6 months. Meanwhile, look at the list of needs in the Book HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS by Harley and see where you and your H stand.

It is time for you to assess really what started this affair and why you are hanging on to it. But, the first things I mention are where you should start.

I think you have a good chance of getting your marriage and yourself back on track. Keep posting, asking questions, and do some reading (it seems as if you are).

Good Night and God Bless,

JL

I am familiar with the way you feel. I urge you to change counselors until you find one that can help you.
My perspective is that there is something very broken about you that prevents you from fulfilling you own emotional needs. I do not believe that a marriage can be based on getting anyone else (H or OM) to fulfill you. The real answer and the way to break out of what you call an "addiction" is to learn how to take care of yourself so that you do not "need" anyone else.
Then you can choose a relationship for the right reasons and get what you want. I believe that the things MB call "needs" are really "wants." But they are good ways to build love and closeness in a marriage. The only problem I have is that calling them needs makes one dependent upon your spouse or lover and I believe makes you still susceptible to an affair in the future. If your spouse or lover fails to meet these "needs", you are forced to look elsewhere to find someone else to supply them.
More than 25 years ago I found some good psychotherapy and was able to break the grip of needing and was able to love from another place and for another reason. I found myself able to simply give love without it being necessary to get something for it. The result was something akin to bliss.
Be aware that your spouse may also be locked into a way of loving that requires getting some "need" fulfilled to maintain it. I found that out the hard way.

to the last 4 of you who have posted -- THANK YOU!!! (especially Ammon). I can't thank you enough for not being harsh with me like the others. I went to bed last night wondering what the hell kind of "support" forum i got myself on!!!!! Like Ammon wrote, I don't need these judgements from anyone, especially any BS's out there. I've gotten enough of that from myself, "friends", others and my spouse.

I didn't even want to read any other posts b/c i was afraid I'd get more of the same. I was thinking about posting a different message entitled, JUST WW's ONLY!!! But I know that the BS's can give a different perspective, just as the WS can. For instance, a friend of mine went through a divorce a few years ago, b/c her H was having an A, and although i never disclosed mine to her, i was able to give her understanding of what was going on with him.

Anyway, I don't expect sympathy from anyone -- just understanding and help. That's why i sought out this site and took a chance. I realize none of you are professionals, but was hoping that someone out there might be in the same situation as me and could offer some suggestions (such as reading the Plan A/B article, which i ended up "suggested" to myself!)

The first few who responded really wanted to lash out. I think all they read was "continued contact" and got pissed. You last 4 really READ what i wrote -- EVERYTHING -- and tried to help and understand.

Last night i also tried not to feel sorry for myself and thought, "ok, maybe these are the types of replies i'm going to be getting", but after reading what Ammon wrote, I'm not going to think that way or let myself and especially OTHERS beat me up anymore.

A couple last questions,
Michael A, you wrote some great stuff, but how do I get there? I feel like I've tried different things to fulfill my own needs/build up my self-esteem/take care of myself and it shatters when I have a setback. It also comes crumbling down when I have a friendship fall apart. I start to withdraw and close off from others, except my H and child.

How does one find a good counselor/therapist? It's not like you can ask around as if you're seeking a regular doctor. I didn't want to give up on the one I was seeing b/c 1) she knew so much about me and I didn't want to start over, 2)she didn't talk about herself like some do and 3)I didn't want to "run away" and dismiss her like I have a tendancy to do with others.

Finally, i've read a couple times now that the "withdrawal" process takes about 6 months. Not true in my case. Over the past few years, the contact has been about 4 months between and this last time, it had been over 6 months. So what happened that made me depressed again? I knew I wasn't over him, but felt like I was on my way. When the setback came upon me, it felt like no time had passed at all. I don't understand this. The only thing I can think of is that i haven't fully dealt with things.

The problem i face is not feeling better if I don't contact him. You hear about drug addicts who think "if i can beat this craving", etc., and then feel better. But not in my case. I've tried that and I don't feel any better. I know, I KNOW...contacting him does me no good. Every time I have I walk away thinking, "what was I thinking/doing???" My problem is that I have no one to turn to (THUS, finding this site) and that is one reason I had turned to him.

To "JUST LEARNING", thank you for what you wrote. I keep forgetting that my husband IS making the choice to be with me. Others have told me that as well, especially when he has learned of lies and contact. He sees the good in me and knows what a rough time I'm going through. He knows what i feel for the OM isn't real and i know he wants to help me get through this. He also wants us to put it behind us and move on. I think I wanted that too, but didn't deal with it -- just pushed it aside so it would seem like we could move on. I told him last night that i dont' want to relive this again and was sorry he has too as well, but that it's something I have to do b/c i don't think i really dealt with it in the beginning.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but like I said, the past 6 months did nothing to make my feelings for the OM dissipate. This is one of my main frustrations. This is what I want help with. I feel like I'm going crazy. I keep saying "what's wrong with me?" Besides time, what will help me get over him?

Actually, reading what trueheart wrote did help, and maybe if I can continue to read stuff like that, there will be hope for me. Up to this point, I've been "understanding" of him and forgiving of him b/c i blamed myself for the continued contact. I just wish any blame i have for him would stick so I could build up that wall. For some reason, it comes down. I know forgiveness is a healing part of life and like I wrote before, I don't want to hate him, b/c that is wasted energy as well. I just don't want to care about him at all, in any way, shape or form! I don't want to feel ANYTHING for him.