Okay all. Things are getting close to the end here. It is 11 days until the custody hearing. I do not want this! But I sort of feel that if I back down now, I will have a problem later protecting my kids. But if I dont back down now and go back into Plan A (there are indications to those around us that it would finally work this time...I am not sure), then it is surely over! I am panicked because I dont know what the right answer is. If I back down on divorce/custody, and give her some money to help with her car and help her make it for awhile. I dont know what that will do. I do know if I dont do some Plan A stuff soon, and if this custody/divorce paperwork doesnt go away, then WWIII is about to happen!

So, what am I to do. she is all over me lately because she says I am just proving that I dont love her, that I just want things my way, etc. I know, selfish fog talk. But that is HER reality right now. And forces her into the decisions she is making. Then she turns around Friday and says something about making a decsion "one way or the other January 1st." What is that? I thought the decision was already made by her. I thought this custody/divorce stuff had solidified everything and that this was over. She tells me this morning that she knows me by my actions. That I have been all talk about making changes. Well, I know that isnt fair, but she has herself so wrapped in the fog, I do not know what to do.

But this is really a faith issue now for me. Is it suicide to stop the proceedings, go to Plan A and hold on and wait for something that may never happen, or is it just the fact that I need faith that God will come through and that she still cares deep down and still wants her marriage back (although it is only a glimmer now). That I just have to do the right thing, and make sacrifice...and pray that God will reach her?

I dont know what the right decision is...for me...for my marriage...for my kids. But I have run out of time. What do I do?

MM,

I really don't know what you should do. I can offer my thoughts on what I would do, given my limited knowledge of the situation.

1. I would speak with the lawyer about the ramifications of slowing this down: ie with regard to child custody, payments, settlements, etc. I would ask him/her very specifically about the ramifications of talking very honestly and openly with your W. If the lawyer says that is OK, then...

2. I would ask her over and tell her you want to talk with her. I would request that she simply listen. I would then simply start: "I feel the need to proceed with this divorce because..."

"I fear stopping it because: you don't see any changes in me and there are, you don't/won't commit to trying, the OM is still a major part of your life, I love you but I don't know who you are any more, I want to love you, but I fear you won't give me a chance, etc."

"If I were running the world, you would be happy, the children would be happy, and I would be with the love of my life. I want that more than anything, but failing that I must protect and take care of the children. I cannot lead your life for you, but I would like to lead my life with you."

Then, MM I would ask her, what she would do if she were in my position and hearing what you are hearing from a spouse that you love, but cannot trust.

Then sit there and let her talk, sulk, cry, whatever. Let all of this sink in, and finally ask her if she has any idea she would like to try, what can you do, and what can she do to give this a chance? If she really cannot answer, then MM I think you know where this is heading.

I suspect your W has painted herself into a corner and is too head strong to figure out how to get out. Ironically, I suspect it is easy. A simple apology and some effort in seeing the good in you, would solve most of your issues with her and lead to your complete forgiveness. She may not be able to do even the simple things MM. In that case you cannot help her.

So, I you have gotten advice that is probably worth what you paid for it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I just hope something I have said is of use.

God Bless,

JL

Custody hearing is a step on the road to plan D, it's not the end in itself. Your WW knows this, feels the pressure, and reacts accordingly. Stay firm, it's for your own protection. She knows pretty well the conditions, which have to be in place for the marriage to work, notably dropping her OM hard and fast. As long as she isnt doing this, there's no point in you not taking the custody-hearing step. However, whenever you see/talk to her, be nice, show your best side. Prove that it is safe for her to come back to you, if she only wanted to. Stay friendly, fair but firm and strong.

If you back down now, you will only be emphasizing to her that if she just holds out long enough you will be forced to do things her way. You will be showing her that she can keep her OM *and* have Mortarman dangling on a string as long as she refuses to meet you halfway. That as long as she stays away from you and keeps on sleeping with her OM, you will become so hurt and desperate that you will back down from your insistence that she give him up and go along with anything she wants.

She will tell herself that as long as she stays "strong" she can have both OM and Mortarman, since both of them want her so badly. She will tell herself that she is so, so very special that two men are willing to put up with each other if it means having even a small part of her.

By all means, keep on letting her know that you WANT to reconcile and you WANT the marriage -- but the operative word here is "marriage." Marriages do not have three people in them. There is no room for an OP in anyone's marriage and she knows that just as well as you do.

Don't let her spook you into caving in. You are almost there now and that's exactly what she wants. She is convinced that if she holds out long enough, you'll panic and do whatever she wants just to keep her.

Hold your ground. You know you cannot have a marriage as long as the OP is in the picture. You cannot ever let your children think that this is somehow acceptable by any stretch of the imagination.

This is going to take time -- and time is the one thing you do have on your side. Let her have all she needs until the reality begins to sink in. Your only alternatives, right now, are to either 1) give up all hope, push the divorce through and never speak to her again, or 2) accept having another man in your marriage.

sorry, double post

<small>[ December 09, 2002, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: psycho_b ]</small>

Mortarman, I agree with Nick.

What do you gain from stoping the divorce if she is still not willing to drop OM? Absolutely nothing, but more importantly, what you stand to loose (your credibility in her eyes) is enormous. If she realizes that her actions do not have any consequences, she'll more than likely continue with not only this OM but others as well in the future. Trust me, my xWW lost all respect for me because I was willing to endure her initial A for the sake of our daughters and felt totally free to go on having more A's. Is this what you want?

MM:

I've been lurking on this forum for a while, but not too long, but I'm familiar with your story. It seemed to me that there MAY have been a time when it would have been more appropriate to go back to plan A (yet again), but probably not now. I think that Nick and TMCM's observations are probably right. Though there is certainly no need to rush a DV, you do want your W to see a consistent MM, don't you? I have always liked JL's advice, too. His suggestions to others have been very useful to me in my situation. But based on where you are right now, can you go back? Or just stall? It might have been better not to have gone to plan B, and not to have filed, but here you are.

I wish you all the best.

I am not sure what how much help this will be. I went through a nasty custody battle, and ended up just wanting the thing overwith. I can tell you the second you get in front of the judge and the lawyers start going at it, Thats when I knew my marriage was over. My best hope was just a big setback. But in reality its been 4 years and My Ex is still bitter and angry. My only advice is Keep the lawyers out of it as much as possible. Don't let them take control.

Mortarman,

Once I ask SH on what is the condition to go back to plan A ?. He said when WS is willing to work on M. Now willing to work on M opens a pandora box. It could mean NC w/ OP or it could simply willing to go to conseling or in between. You have to make the judgement ..... I ask SH when you go back to plan B again ?, when WS is breaking the promise on "working on M". Sorry you have to make this dance but I agree w/ other to continue the process since it will take a while to settle down anyway. The most important is you have to be able to convey to WS that you love her but hate what she is doing ... and you need to do this not to punish her but to move on with your life. The door is still open if she is wiiling to work on M (by your definition).

Good luck -rh-

You know what, MM, I say you just stay on your path, follow God, and don't let her manipulate you into backing down. Because that is what she is doing now. If she was serious about the marriage, then she would be making arrangements to come home. She is not doing that. There is nothing stopping her. She simply wants you to accomodate her and has no motivation whatsoever to change. She is making threats to get what she wants from you. And as long as she can get away with that, then she has no motivation to come home and you and the children stand unprotected.

I also think it is a dreadful idea to help her financially. Granted, God expects you support your wife, but He sure does not expect you to support her in a sinful pursuit. You would just be enabling her and HELPING her stay away from her family by giving her any money. There is no virtue in funding her little enterprise.

If this marriage is to be, then God is not going to let a child custody hearing stand in the way. I know you know that. Please calm down and get out of God's way, MM. You have a clear, concise, workable plan and you are becoming panicked when God does not work according to your plan on your timeline. He will work on HIS timeline and there is nothing that will stand in His way when He is ready. Move over, MM. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Stay strong, remain calm. She knows every button to push. She will say anything and everything to get her way. She will lable your actions in whatever way she wants. You know what you are doing is right. Your children need the stability you bring them. She knows the parameters in which you live. No matter what you are doing, no matter what you have changed she has one thing she must do to change the process even the smallest fraction...EXTRICATE THE OM. You know war is hell. She drew the line in the sand, she knowingly consorts with the enemy. Now she wants you to raise your white flag and surrender for what...more betrayl...more maybes? She knows the terms for peace. NO OM=NO MARRIAGE...That is not your rule...its God's. Praying for you always.

ayslyne

Hi Mortar,

I'm sorry to say this, but I agree with the others. You need to proceed forward. Be honest with her. Let her know, this is not what you want, but what you have to to, as long as she will not come home and work on the M.

As far as what you hear from others, she knows they talk to you and she knows they will tell you. She needs to know that you are firm in your decision that the only way for the M to work is for OM to be completely and totally out of the picture.

Financially, she does not want to come home, then she should not be asking for financial help. She should be making her own way.

<small>[ December 09, 2002, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Sue with hope ]</small>

Thanks for all of the advice. it seems thru all of you that responded that there is definitely a thread there. I want to respond to each of you, but first let me update you on what happened yesterday after I posted (before all of you responded) and then I'll respond to you individually.

The update...

Well, after I posted this, I was not feeling real well, and rather down since it was my birthday and my wife was not around. Add to this that my birthday is a very significant day because it was the day 19 years ago that my high school sweatheart (we were engaged) had an abortion when she was three months pregnant...all on the day where I was in Baltimore signing on the dotted line to enter the Army to take care of my family, effectively dropping out of college. So my birthday has always been a rather rough day for me, except the first 8 years of our marriage. My wife understoof how rough that day was, and found a way to make me laugh again on that day. That is until last year and this year.

Anyway, I left work around 11am not feeling well. On the way home, I decided to drop by my church to see if I could talk with one of the pastors about what I posted above and the things that were going on. On Sunday, I had met for about 5 hours with VERY close friends of my wife and I who had been gone the last 5 years as he had gone away to be in the ministry. He is very much like me, and his wife is very much like my wife...so the information I got from them especially since they KNOW us, was very eye opening. I remember his wife saying to me at one point: "mortarman...if I was your wife, and heard you say you wanted her back, but got served with divorce paperwork, I would be very confused and would not believe you." Something my wife has said recently (on the morning of my birthday...that my actions dont back my words...stuff like that).

So, I took what I had to the church and sat for 3 hours with one of the pastors. I told him everything. when I was done, he gave me this advice. First, he said that it sounded like I had grown a lot. That many of the problems I had that led to all of this I seem to have got a handle on or are no longer factors. He said my recent submitting of the paperwork (the beginning of November) showed him that I had finally stopped wanting to manipulate my wife back into the relationship...that I had let her go to her decisions. And then he got down to where I am now.

He said that all of the things...financial, work, my fie now, etc were getting in the way of me having my relationship with Jesus. He said that as long as I worried about all of this, that I couldnt get that relationship. that it looked like Jesus was still trying to get me to have that relationship, and any rewards from that relationship would not come until I laid everything down that was between me and Him. I asked "then what else is left? I have lost everything, or given everything up...money, career, my wife, everything." He told me that wasnt true...that there was still one more thing that I was still holding onto...still not giving up to Him. Can anyone who has followed my threads figure out what that is?

It is my children. He said that I am motivated now to protect my children, and there is nothing wrong with that. But, I am making decisions now, not based on what God says or wants, but based on my distrust of Him to protect my children. I looked at him sort of confused. He said "Look, Mortarman. No one, including God, is going to blame you or hold it against you if you divorce your wife…if you seek physical custody of your children to protect them. Nobody. The Bible even says that there is the clause of adultery that allows you a way out. And God will honor that and help you build a new life at His direction. But…if you are waiting on Him to tell you to divorce your wife, you will be waiting a long time. God will never tell you to divorce her…it says in Malachi that He hates divorce. But He will allow it in your case. So, you can go forward with this and feel justified that you have done the right thing, and done so for your children…and to protect them."

But he then gave me the caveat. He said: "But…what is it God really wants? He wants reconciliation. Look, you don't trust God right now because He "failed" you. You left for Bosnia and asked and trusted Him to protect your wife and your kids…to take care of your family, and in your eyes, He didn't do that. Now I am not going to get into the free will issue here, but suffice it to say that what has happened is not His fault…that this is laid at your wife's feet. That if she had trusted Him also, then He could have protected all of them while you were gone like He wanted to. But, Mortarman, you live in fear now. Fear that you can no longer control the situation. Fear that your children, while significantly scarred by your wife's actions, will be sucked further into her destructive behavior…maybe she even gets custody and marries the OM and they have to live a good chunk of the rest of their lives around this dishonorable man that your wife has consorted with. You fear being alone…with all of your family gone (wife and kids). That someone is taking away everything that means everything to you. But you have all the cards right now…right? You can "protect" your kids from your wife…from the OM, right? That if you do this right now, you can control the outcome…right? That you will protect them, protect what is left of your family, because God just cannot be trusted to do so. Right?"

And then he said: "Mortarman, I say again that NO ONE will fault you for these actions. They are natural…they are human. You have every right to do so. But if I could offer you one bit of advice, I would say that this way is not God's way. That He is trying to do something in your life, in your kids lives, even in your wife's life. That He is in the business of miracles. That He is about taking our worst, and turning it into the best. I am telling you that He wants you to let go…of everything. That doesn't mean giving up, or giving in. It means trust him with everything. Are those kids REALLY yours? Or are they God's, on loan to you? Can you REALLY protect them? If you get custody and it forces divorce, have you REALLY done your kids a service? What if you just blew God's efforts out of the water, efforts that would have put their family back together? And instead of waiting on God to do this in His time, and His way, you did it your way. Can you control what happens? Really? How has your ability to try to control your marriage and reconciliation going? My point is this Mortarman…if you want to go, then go. You have every right. But every decision you make will have consequences. If you do it your way, then be prepared for those consequences. But if you do it His way, it says in the Bible that He will work all things for the good of those who love Him. You have to let go of your kids…give up trying to control the outcome. Allow God again to decide what is best for them, for you…even for your wife. If you do, then the consequences of those actions will be based on His decisions, and His will…not on yours. And you may find that He takes such faith and obedience and turns it into something you never expected…something grander than was ever possible if you did it your way. I am not saying that means your wife is definitely coming back. She has free will…she can continue to be disobedient. I am saying that your faith and obedience may mean all the difference. And if she doesn't come back, it will mean all the difference in how that life post-divorce is worked out."

Guys and gals…I was blown away! This is not natural. This goes against even the advice I am receiving right now. I have to back off, trust God, don't launch the nukes? Give up my control to Him? Well, I have been receiving this message somewhat over the last week. So, after some lengthy prayer in his office, I walked out and decided to take care of things before my wife calling in anger, or some other fear, caused me to change my mind. I went straight to my attorney's office, and sat with him and told him to call it off…to shut it down. He asked what was up. I just told him that this was not the right thing to do right now…that I would let him know when things changed.

So, as of yesterday (or whenever all the paperwork is processed), Mortarman is fully back in this marriage. I have turned over my wife and my kids to God. This doesn't change my standing in court, not now…not ever. It just means that I am not going to initiate this. That, as a friend of mine asked recently "have you done EVERYTHING you possibly could to save your marriage and to protect your kids?" And right now, the answer is NO. I have not trusted God, I have tried to do it my way…and failed miserably. I have Lbed constantly, lied to my wife, manipulated her…even lashed out at her in an attempt to make her hurt like she has hurt me. This is not God's way.

So, I am asking for prayers of peace now. Peace in the place I am as I have only Jesus to look at, to trust. That I watch Him protect my kids, and go after my wife. And in the end, it very well may mean that there is divorce and that I will receive custody of the kids. But, it will happen through my obedience, not through my effort. Definitely not my way.

I talked to my wife last night twice. First to tell her I had pulled it back. I talked for an hour, with her being very quiet. I cried during the talk. But I told her, whether she believed it or not, from this moment on, I will do it His way. But, since she wants to continue to talk about me as untrustworthy, liar, terrible husband…as she wants to continue to change the past around to make me into this horrible husband and person (fog!!), I told her I will not listen to this anymore. If she wants to work on the marriage, then I am open to discussing past events and hurts as a way to work through them. But the historical revisionism, and the angry insults and descriptions of me will not be allowed anymore. I told her she now gets what she wants. She said no one is getting what they want. I told her not true. That now she could get done with school, continue to date the OM, wait until August so she can file for divorce…and who knows…maybe even get custody of the kids. Everything she said she wanted when she walked out the door over 15 months ago into the Troll's arms. And the troll gets what he wants. I said even her mother gets what she wants because even though she doesn't like what my wife is doing, she still is mad at me for trying to get custody of the children. So, I told her that the picking of my bones by my MIL, by the OM and by her was over. If she isnt going to work on this, if she is just going to call to bring up ancient history or berate me and accuse me of being who I am not, then I will not listen to it. She can take it to someone that will listen to that crap. If she wants to work on the marriage, she knows the conditions. I told her I love her and want our marriage very much and that I am sorry for many of the LBs I have done over the last 8 months. And that they were over with.

Anyway, she was silent and then I hung up. A couple of hours later, she calls back to talk to the kids and then I get on the phone and she asks if we can go Christmas shopping together on Thursday for the kids. Huh? She told me two weeks ago she had already started shopping for them from her…added to that, it appeared that there would be two different Christmases on Dec 25th…one at my lace and one at hers. I was confused why she wanted to go out, hang out with me at the malls, and us buy the kids' presents. I had already planned to do my buying (and that of Santa) this weekend. What's up with that? I started to answer her and she said that she wants to, if we can get along. I told her that I know we can get along…for life. That I would go with her shopping. We are to talk tomorrow I think on the logistics (time, etc). so, why the interest in going shopping together? She out of money and just want to shop for the kids on my dime? I think she had money set aside, so that doesn't make sense. She believe or want to believe in what I told her. She even said at the end of the conversation that it appears that I had a rough day, but that I had learned a lot. Or, is this kind of a little safe baby step to see what is going on with me and to see if it is safe to stick her head up out of the foxhole?

She did call me back an hour ago at work angry at me. It seems that she went to the courthouse to see if what I said yesterday was true. She said nothing had been changed at the clerks office. She said she even called to confirm with my attorney, who was in court at the time. She said that I had lied again. I told her that I am not going to listen to this anymore…I told her that yesterday. I did not lie. Just because I said I went to my attorney's office, that I told him to shut it down, that the aide there took papers across the road to the courthouse, and this morning she hasn't seen any changes to the disposition of the case, doesn't mean I lied. I have a call into my attorney to find out what happened, or if everything has been taken care of, then when it will show up there…and show up at my wife's place. But it was very heated at the time…as she was mad and saying she was headed to her attorney's office because now she had to send in her rebuttal to the charges in the divorce motion. I told her that I had shut it down…but she said she cant believe me…that there is no evidence that I am telling the truth. I told her I am not a lawyer, I don't know how it works or what exactly the lawyer did or is going to do to shut things down. Obviously it has to be done soon, with the court date next week. So, now she is off spending money she doesn't have to have her attorney rebut the divorce and custody documents…al which have been or are going away. And when they do, will she apologize for doubting me or calling me a liar? No, she will just say "Well look because I cant trust you, I had to go out and spend money I don't have…that YOU just cost me a bunch of money!" I still live in a no-win situation. But, be that as it may…there will be no more lies…no more LBs. She hs to find her own way out now.

Instead of answering each one of you individually, since I think I have here, I would love to hear what you have to think about all of this now, and advice on how to push forward (Plan A..Plan B…a hybrid?). I know this was long…but the last 24 hours has been HUGE!!

Mortarman I personally beleive that you made a terrible mistake, but it's your call. Don't be too surprised if you don't get many responses to your latest development because some of us will just throw our hand up in the air and say 'what't the use?' and clam up for good. But in any case, I wish you the best for you and yours.

Coffeeman: Please do not feel this way, or anyone else out there that has offered advice. Believe me, what you have told me rings so true...and may have to happen. And when that time comes, it will happen in the way that you all describe. This all may be for naught anyway, at least when it comes to the marriage. I might get down the road and still be right where I am at. But it wont get worse. If things dont change, and I decide to do this later (months from now?), my standing is still the same as it is now legally. As my attorney said...the facts are the facts. But I just believethat I have not given God a shot at this...that I have never done a good Plan A by being myself, and trusting Him to get through to my wife. If I do this, and the marriage doesnt work out...at least I know that I actually gave my all...that I did it right. And I believe the Lord will bless me for my obedience. But maybe, just maybe...if I get the hell out of the way...then He might just get my wife out of that fog...and back where she belongs.

Again, my position legally with the kids still remains the same. This is just pushing off until some unknown point in the future when this all will go down...if ever! Sure, this may allow her to cake eat. My birthday was yesterday, so I may have handed her a very large piece of chocolate cake. But, I now believe that if I'll let God work on her, with no effort on my part (which usually results in LBs), that He actually may cause a severe case of indigestion for her. Again, some may disagree and think that I should lock things down now. That I should stop her cake eating now. Well, first...the time now is not magical. I will have the same legal position in March or august as I have now. second, and more importantly, I do not plan on letting her cake eat. The rules are still the rules...OM gone and working on relationship. Otherwise, I will control what things and needs she gets taken care of by me. Okay, we're going shopping Thursday together. But, I am going to chock this up to the kids things. If she had asked for us to just go somewhere to talk, have a drink, etc, I would have turned her down...until the two conditions are met.

So, while I have stopped the countdown for the launch of the nukes, it by no means shows that I have surrendered or that I will allow her unacceptable behavior to continue. But, for now, I will let someone else deal with her. That's why I see a modified Plan B (interaction ONLY on kid related stuff) as the plan until those two conditions are met.

so, you and others keep responding...please! Like I said...your advice and prayers have helped more than you know. and in the end, you may be right and it all comes out the same. but I have to make sure that MORTARMAN has done everything he was supposed to. if I do this, if I let God do His work, then it wont matter how it turns out. I can look at myself in the morning and face my kids as a man that did everything he could have.

Dear Mortarman,

I am sorry for your obvious distress. Well where you are now???. You decided to tell her that you were going to wait. Forever???, allowing what??? everything???. Expectations???? I don't mean to sound cruel. But please protect yourself and your children. I understand preachers all to well, i am sure that they mean well, however. Have you talked to God, personally.( i don't mean weird) but the God i serve is not the authorof confusion. And bless your heart you have walked right back into confusion. I applaude your heart wanting to do what is right. I hope that this turns out to be God's perfect will for you. S

Notgoing...believe me, I have gone over this a thousand times, and had the same questions as you just stated. Allow it forever? well, no. I dont think God will allow it forever. Plus, if I give Him a shot FINALLY and then it doesnt work because of her disobedience, then I will do what I was doing...divorce/custody. I am not laying down, nor surrendering. Think of it as a pause in the battle in order to let a negotiator go over to the otherside and work on her. When either the negotiations work, or I feel that they are just not going to work, then it will be decision time.

And I understand what you are saying about the confusion. but one thing has been certain, most of the confusion has been caused by my disobedience, and by my efforts and my LBs. If she is going to reject this marriage now, it will be her rejecting Him, not me. No more mmo to throw at me. No ability to say to herself or others that I was the one that gave up. This is all on her. I have no doubt that all the weight of that pressure from God, from the guilt, from being where she shouldnt be, will crush her. I dont need to help. How long wil that take. dont know. Hosea, in the Bible, waited 10 years. I'm not saying i can or will wait that long. but I am saying I am going to give God a chance to maybe work His miracle and see if the wife I knew still exists inside her. if she does, she will respond relatively soon to His efforts. if she isnt, then I will KNOW...and I will walk away from this alien because the wife I know and love will have proven to be dead.

I understand what you are saying and asked myself the same questions before doing this. But I need to give Him a chance, even her a chance, to extricate her out of the hole she has dug. I cant reach her...and am not quite sure I am ready to abandon her in that hole she put herself in. Let me see if it is possible to rescue her. Then make decisions.

As for me personally, I actuall am rather calm because I now feel the weight off of me. The weight of the divorce, the kids, and our future. now the battle rages between her and christ. Not with me. I am an infantryamn, and I now realize I have been trying to fight a tank with a bayonet. There is no way I win that battle. Why dont I let the guy who has the tank take out the tank. So, I'll sit back and watch Him do His work. In a sick sort of way, it'll be fun to watch. Instead of me trying to cause her pain to make up for the pain she is causing me, now I can watch the pain she is causing herself and God is allowing engulf her. And as she struggles and feels even more alone, that part inside that will feel justification in me will laugh. Good for her! She did it to herself. And then see if she has the guts and courage to ask for help getting out of that hole.

Right now for you maybe you should b in plan b. In other words, let go and let God. I know that it is hard becasue you have 3 kids. Do you see them regularly, do you have someplace to pick them up and a schedule so you don't have to really communicate with her about anything but them?? Will she allow them to go to church with you, What are your options now??

Not going...

No, this is what I am saying...I am in a great position when it comes to custody. She left, and left the kids with me. She sees them on average one night a week. I take care of them fulltime. So, what I have been saying is that by pulling back and letting her sink or swim, it does not change my reality nor my children's for quite awhile. and legally, it never changes the position I am in when it comes to custody. So, the only thing I lose during this time is maybe feeling like crap. So, I have to let everything go to God. And trust Him. And hopefully that will be enough to give me peace through this.

Mortarman you have my support no matter if we disagree with the handling of the situation. I sincerely hope that I am dead wrong and that your tactic will rebuild your M, but you must understand that it will be difficult to give you much advise that hasn't been given already pertaining to how to proceed with your situation. So don't take it as a sign that I have given up on you because that is just not the case, although I must admitt that it's fun taking out my virtual kangaroo bullwhip and give you a couple of lashes when you so richly deserve them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Think of it as a pause in the battle in order to let a negotiator go over to the otherside and work on her. When either the negotiations work, or I feel that they are just not going to work, then it will be decision time."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What definite signs will tell you that the negotiator was unsuccesful in making her want to come back to rebuild the M? and Are you going back to plan B with no contact except to discuss child related issues?