T- You sound better in the last post or so... GREAT, YOU GO GIRL!

It is sooo hard to deal with this. My wh's attorney he was using for a car wreck dropped him today and he called screaming saying it was all my fault.... Oh gee, how could I of caused that...

Long story, but he thinks it is my fault.... b/c people are beginning to find out how he operates and who he is.... right now.

What isn't my fault?

Anyway, You will get stronger and it will get better. You have improved so far down the road a lot, right? You have more to journey in recovery, but we will make it!

Hugs to you T. DO the fake date! I love it.. don't be too out in the open ab out it.. once I just looked very nice like I was going out when I dropped off the kids, and he was upset over that. Funny they want to lea ve us, but don't want others to take us?

Hugs to you, HOney

Terr,

I hope you're doing okay, hon. Just thinking of you.

Lv,
Jo

Hi all, Okay, I have to get stronger. I HAVE to...I've been a mess. Crying. Asking the LB questions of WHY?HOW?...IL's are involved again. I'm accused of not keeping the peace but it wasn't ME that said anything to them. It was him.

Okay. Breathe. Breathe. Breathe. I'm really UPSET because last night was an "event" at my IL's...one that H wanted my D to attend with him. Well, at first, I said no but then I felt bad. She went. They came home. I was just plain ANGRY. Ripped up a card. Okay, I wasn't right. Just felt sad, lonely, left out...no, I'm not victimizing myself. I'm just unhappy. I hate everything about these holidays.

Am I thinking of my D? In ways, yes. Do I hate myself for acting that way in front of her? Absolutely.

I'm WRONG. Hate myself for my behaviour. I need to get some control.

My FIL told me that maybe my H had to go to another woman. Our marriage was wrong from the beginning, etc. He could tell it just wasn't "normal".

It just feels like the world is caving in...my H tells me I'm alienating everyone. I believe it.

He sent me this email this morning.

"I am sorry and I do understand your hurt and devastated . You were my first love and I will never forget our love and our past. But it is in the past....don't make me hate you ....."

Thank-you PB, Honey & Jo.

I'm just too emotional to say anything else.

Terrified - I just had to post to you - I can feel your pain - the unanswered questions - of Why did this happen?? What is his problem?? Why is he doing this to our family??? Why, Why, Why??? and believe me I am not one to give any great kind of advice but in my experience - I am beginning to realize after a year and 2 months - and one divorce later - is that we may never know the answers - they put the blame on us because they cannot handle what they did - we get the I love you but I am not in love with you?? The you knew there was something wrong?? Why can't we just get along for the kids sake ?? Oh and my personal favorite - the sex life was boring - I forced him to have the affair.. OK well I guess what I am trying to say - is that it will get better - when I don't know - I am not even there yet - but I do have good days - thrown in with the emotional wreck days - but I will say they are coming less and less... I guess what I am becoming to realize is that I deserve to be loved.. My husband has my girls now - he took them last night and he will bring them back on Christmas eve - after they have dinner with his family - do I feel left out yes - I do - but I am trying to look at it as ok I have this free time I can clean, wrap gifts, bake... I will have my girls on Christmas Day and he will have nothing - but you know that is his choosing so... I guess - try to think happy thoughts - think well life is bad - but somewhere - someone has it worse - You didn't deserve this pain - I don't think anyone does - but you have nothing to be feeling bad about - he has to live with what he has done and or continues to do.. I am looking forward to 2003 as a happy year for me - I for once am going to be selfish... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> happy holidays...

Hello everyone,

Well, H has never swayed publicly from his resolve, his certainty, his confidence in his decision to leave me. Perhaps I've enabled his confidence? In any case, I visited friends tonights. Mutual friends. Friends that H went to visit on Sunday. Friends who "know" my H and his confidence. Once he's "sure", he's sure. Yes, I know my H too. I JUST DON'T WANT TO HEAR THIS ANYMORE.

Christmas is such a hard time to accept.

Maw, same old, same old, isn't it for WS's? The dreaded script...you have a good attitude. I wish I was there. Yes, I absolutely agree. There are people in much worse conditions than us BUT...right now, it feels very painful. I hope you have a wonderful Christmas with your girls. Somehow, being without my daughter is the worst possible punishment and something I can't get past...

Thank-you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Terrified:
<strong>.......
He sent me this email this morning.

"I am sorry and I do understand your hurt and devastated . You were my first love and I will never forget our love and our past. But it is in the past....don't make me hate you ....."

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok T, I don't get his logic but then again, I never was good at WS logic!!!

He admits you were his first love.... ok, it is in the past.....ok.....don't make me hate you???? what's that? Reply to him "then don't yell at me and I can't make you hate me!!!"

Babble back deary.

Your H is one confused WS even by WS standards. FIL says M was doomed from the start? I would reply well having an FIL like that sure makes it seem that way. Again more babble back.

Hey, I am getting good at this babble stuff...... you should see what it does to those whose heads are messed up. Stops them in their tracks long enough for you to jump out of the way. That's the objective. Then you move on.

Hugz,
L.

Hey O, Good to hear from you. Thanks a million times. I just posted (looks like the same time as your last post).

You think my H is confused?? Look at my last post. People think HE's SURE. Actually, so do I.
"Move on", he tells me, "you're alienating everyone by HOLDING on"..

Merry Christmas O. Thanks for everything.

<<<"Move on", he tells me, "you're alienating everyone by HOLDING on"..>>>

What exactly is it that he wants you to do? What specifically has he asked/told you to do? Is there something here you're not telling us?

Hi T and happy Christmas Eve... I am feeling a bit terrified of my interaction with my wh today, if it happens. He is broke and trying to sell a motorcycle.... if it sells he will have presents, and be happy, etc- he is holding out that someone will buy it today.. if it doesn't sell.. then who knows what kind of mood he will be in...?

He wouldn't give me a time to be here, etc? Who knows what he wants. A small step I guess last yr he refused to be here.

I think my eye is infected, just a little.. due to stress... ugh! What a happy day!

At least your young D is not big enough to throw fits.... about christmas presents.. my older son is mad b/c he got to open an early gift and it needed the speakers on the computer and they weren't hooked up last night.. now this was around 11pm, and I sd I would work on it today and he had an absolute fit.. wanting to try his new cd, which is a german tutorial....

He told me I am a cheapskate. He was grouchy, but I fear this reminds me of his dad. A temper fit aimed to hurt others when he didn't get his way.

Hugs T, Maybe your h will grow up one day. Maybe you won't want him anymore IF he ever does.

Think about the bad times if that helps you feel better about being apart. I have had to start to think about the bad ways he treated me during the marriage, and how they are just super magnified now.

I am not going to give him the benefit of the doubt and dwell on all his good pts when he keeps acting bad. No counseling this week for us, and he is more out of control... the counselor keeps him in ck. But I have had to say I can't talk to you when you talk that way...

And that he can't come over here unless he is loving and kind...

Thanks for being here, about 2 make 2 key lime pies for a friend who is actually buying them from me, and of course I am behind on schedule...

I hope you have a happy day. Put on your suit of armor if you deal with him and let it all roll of that suit of armor.. I felt like I couldn't just let it roll off my back I had to have a suit of armour... however you spell? sorry?!

OH, I cannot , repeat cannot, believe your FIL is stooping SO LOW> Be extra nice to the inlaws in every chance you get, don't let them start to isolate you too. I did that and am now trying to rebuild with small steps. . such as a photo of wh and kids and inlaws without me in it, that I took... I have framed in 4x6 frames and am mailing... not going to push me on them, but send a gift they will like.

UGH.

Hugs, H

Hi PB,

I'm telling you everything. My H doesn't want me to hope anymore. Doesn't want me to ask him to come home anymore. Doesn't believe in our marriage and doesn't want me to either. Doesn't want me to wear my wedding rings so basically, it's everything I've told you. Hasn't asked me to "DO" anything else at this point.

Merry Christmas PB. Thanks.

Hi Honey, Merry Christmas to you too. Scary isn't it? I am now at the point where I fear most of my interactions with H. Scared of what I may or may not hear.

I'm glad your H is spending the Eve with you. Not a chance with my H. Not a chance. Before I found out about the Yugo trip and blew up, he had actually thought of sleeping here tonight ( I guess I made it safe enough) but after my LB, no way. I guess I blew everything in many ways.

My IL's came to visit yesterday evening for a little while. All very emotional. We love each other very much. I broke down just a little when they left. D and I had a Christmas visit so I recovered just a little.

I wish you good things, Honey. Thank-you for your kindness.

T -- HUGS.

If its gonna be Plan A for a while still, then PLAN A with ALL you've got.

I think that him seeing you moody and depressed is becoming a LB'er. Its just not working. You've got to get a grip on your Plan A.

What are his most important needs? And how are you meeting them? What more can you do to improve things?

You're approaching the two year mark from discovery. Does it seem reasonable to you to Plan A your heart out for the next few months....then go to B?

Not only Plan A him, but Plan A his family too.
I'm sorry that your FIL said such a hurtful thing to you. But remember, your WS is still trying to gain allies and re-write history to get support for this new life plan he's come up with.

I'd keep talking to them. Maybe let them know that its your belief that J owes you and your D to at least ATTEMPT to work on the marriage. Its not fair for him to find another woman, decide its over, and do NOTHING to try to fix it. I'm sure they would agree with that point of view.

Maybe you need to change the focus of your posts from what abuse WH has lashed out at you with today -- to what success you had in your Plan A.
Try everyday to find some way to Plan A him, and share your success with us -- maybe we can all help you come up with some new ideas to try!

(personally there's one need he's approached you with many times -- wonder what it would do to his relationship with OW for your D to get a little brother or sister...hehehehehe)

HUGS T!

Thanks for your note T.

I am glad you got together with inlaws.. hopefully that nasty comment was just a slip of fil's tongue... wonder how son learned to be so nasty? Huh?

My inlaws actually sent me a card with gift... I am veryy suprised, as I have not been remembered all yr except for this card, well last yr at xmas, but we had words sin ce then.. which I have apologized for.. my fil had many wives and a's... ugh. and a drinking prob. Wonder how he contributed to his son's behavior?

Anyway, about all... oh, wh decided not to come over as he is sick... wouldn't want us to get sick and die? so he claims...

Be calm again and keep being kind to your h, even from a distance. he still considers you very special, as he says... just dosent see things working.. be kind, and show him how good it could be when you get a chance.. otherwise stay away.

Creme always rises to the top, and that is you T. This is going to be fine.

Hugs and happy holidays. Enjoy them.

Honey

I am utterly astounded that anyone here would be giggling over the idea of you STILL having sex with this man. Please read the following current thread. It describes what you must do if you want this relationship to have a chance of surviving:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=021827

Bottom line here: this man is angry at you because he has no respect for you. No man can love or respect a woman who eats his crap with a smile and then asks for more.

Until you stand up and show him that you respect YOURSELF, and stop letting him treat you like his maid, his mommy, his nanny, and part of his harem -- and most of all, stop reacting to his abuse with nothing more than a sigh and self-pity -- you will only further erode any respect he has for you and this will only get worse and worse.

Sorry to be so harsh but I think you are definitely taking the wrong approach here. You've been trying "Plan A" for months and months and months, and what are the results? The definition of insanity is, "Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result."

In the words of Dr. Phil -- how's this workin' for ya?

T-

Please let me share what has helped me get my angry angry wh to try to work on this... b/c deep down he wants to.. he just could not see the use.. esp. with my constant attempts to work on marriage , etc.- now it still gets him angry.. but counselor is encouraging him to try now, not me.

Your h also claims to have religious beleifs, I say get into christian counseling, it is a Godsend for me.

I told my h I was starting to give up, I have started to exhibit some moving on behviors.. don't get me wrong, I slide.. but they help. No clingy behvior, less phone calls, less asking him to do stuff etc. Letting him see what it is like alone for real...

But also saying I still want to save marriage, firmly, but saying it take s 2 and this is my last try ... counseling for now. I am ready to let him go... that scared him.

B/C major cake eater he is. Firmness in boundaries.. politely getting off the phone when he is abusive or rude, telling him he can't come to my home unless he acts lving and kind to me... or he can just get kids at the door and go... Me h olding the door cracked at him like he does me one night bothered him... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> A dose of his own behavior.. I wasn't inviting him in or even letting him see in... he didn't like it...- but that is how he does me.

I have filed of legal child support enforcement while seperated, and that is upcoming to be worked out.

He is diligently going to cousneling, I did plead a little for him to at least try.... he is reluctantly.

Act like you are giving up, but leave the door open. Don't do anything cruel, use your manners at all times. Treat him like you would a coworker, stranger on the street , or a sick person you feel sorry for.

That will all help....

Hugs, I know you are trying, and I hope some of th suggestions- that is all they are- might help a little. My little progress is taking me a long way. Baby steps.

Hugs, and more later.

Happy new year! to you! I want you to have some fun!

Honey

Hello everyone...well, I survived Christmas somehow. It was for me, the saddest I can remember.

Christmas Eve, I did host my family members with my D. They did everything possible to make it special. I did not shed a tear. My mother asked not to see H on Christmas Eve. I warned H courteously. H was angered by this. "Why? She blames only me for all of this?" I replied, "It has nothing to do with blame." Quite truthfully, my mother was hurting.

My D was running a fever and was not herself most of the evening. Very clingy. After everyone left, she fell asleep but had a rough night. Fever. Up. Down. She was supposed to spend Christmas Day with H's family. I wasn't sure this was going to happen.

We had a heavy snowfall for Christmas. Very beautiful. D normally loves snow. Didn't even notice it with any happiness. H came over early in the morning to open presents with D.

He could see she wasn't well. He decided that it wasn't a good idea to bring her with him. Therefore, my Christmas Day was just me and D which was better than I had anticipated.

Spoke to people the day after Christmas who mentioned that Christmas dinner with my H and IL's was void of merriment and joy. H was down. No one laughed. But it's his choice. And he was probably missing the OW!!!

In conclusion, I made it. Next, New Year's...UGH!

Hi PB, I don't disagree with any of your comments.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Until you stand up and show him that you respect YOURSELF, and stop letting him treat you like his maid, his mommy, his nanny, and part of his harem -- and most of all, stop reacting to his abuse with nothing more than a sigh and self-pity -- you will only further erode any respect he has for you and this will only get worse and worse. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This I agree with wholeheartedly. I'm just unsure as to how to take control. I drove to Chapters a few nights ago while pleading with God for some direction. Only one copy of "I Don't Love You Anymore" was staring me in the face. The last page read "Do not be terrified". Don't know if anyone agrees with the concepts of this book but this writer is a Christian author who believes in getting angry and STAYING angry.

Is this what you're trying to tell me?

Hello Honey, Wow, you're sounding so good! I'm sure many MB'ers are proud of you. Did you have a good Christmas? What are your plans for New Year's?

I think my H knows I love him (SO CONFIDENT) and would prefer to save my marriage. However, I really believe he needs to feel the loss of my love.

Thank-you for your loving encouragement and support.

I heard it many times by my wayward spouse. He told me he doesn't love me, the intimate love. But that he loved the other woman so many times. I heard him just a few minutes before we were to go to retrovaille for the weekend, heard him outside our bedroom window, say to the other woman, I love you munchkin, 5 times, 5 kisses on the phone, and hugs of volume throat sounds. It was so sickening, and I wish I had a gun at that point. I wish I had screamed you WH*re!

It hurts, and they are so totally in the FFOOOGGGG!

Hi C2M, Thank-you for replying. I've read your recent posts. I'm glad that God granted you a special Christmas somehow...and I'm sorry for your pain.

I feel anguish most times but I'm trying to talk to God more and stop my tears.

My D has been sick since Christmas Eve. Out of sorts since then...H came over yesterday. Said he had to leave by 8:30 because he had to be at Christmas drop in. Well, it's the first time and it hurt me. I didn't show it. The couple that invited him he met through one of his major accounts. In our happier days, I met them both. They were a very nice couple. It's probably a safe place for him because they know only what he has told them and of course, they know nothing of the affair, only that he lives alone. The husband does my H's tax returns and he filed as married this year (maybe they hope for him or else they should have suggested he file as separated?).

I was supposed to take D to a friend's but then I started to feel queazy. Well, H ended up leaving closer to 10:00 p.m. because D was a litle unruly and I had fallen asleep. I awoke and apologized because he needed to go...he handed me D and left.

Cold. Heartless. Angry. But it still hurt that he was going somewhere NEW and without me. I remind myself that he must go through this and I must not fear it anymore.

But it still hurts DEEPLY. A couple we used to enjoy speaking to as a COUPLE ourselves...

All part of the painful journey...

Hugs to you.

Hi Terrified,
You really can't know what is going through this couple's mind. I remember when one of "our" dear friends invited H for Thanksgiving...I felt so betrayed. She'd met me a few times for lunch, coffee, but invited H for a holiday? It made no sense to me.

You know time has passed for me and I've been able to ask her why, and it wasn't to hurt me (and I didn't tell her it did, but sometimes I'm not much of a "poker face".) She wanted my H to know people still cared about him, even though they didn't approve.

Good reason? Not in my book <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , but I can see what she was trying to do, draw him back into the fold. We ran into this couple after church today. H gave her such a big hug (and I'm dead certain there's no attraction there). So, is it possible that her invitation is a piece of the puzzle that brought him back to our marriage? I won't ever know...but in reading your post, this is what came to my mind.

I doubt most people approve of your H walking out on you and your daughter. Maybe this other couple who invited him, who know he lives alone, had a thought that if he spent time seeing them as a couple, he'd miss you?

A lot of maybes there. I mean they could just be cold SOBs, but allow for the possibility that they could have had good intentions, even if they've gone about it in an odd way that added to your pain.

And, I'm kinda glad you had your daughter with you on Christmas and that your H's family had a dismal time...there's no way that's YOUR fault.

Perhaps your H will get it through his head that you are not the cause of his unhappiness.

Hi T- I am glad you made it through.. you will grow stronger. I am amazed at myself, but I think working the 12 steps is helping.... Do you have a cosa meeting or a codependent 12 step meeting.. sorry if I have sd this before.. but in person support is helping me, and being able to go and talk about it in person and see others who have been there.

It is bringing me into reality and out of my fog... and guilt for what I did wrong. My h has to treat me better or he can't have me anymore... this is a new attitude I am getting.. I used to have it, I am sure you have it too, but maybe you need it stronger.. I need it stronger too.. the attitude that is.. but that attitude, that what he is doing is unacceptable, PERIOD.. is helping.

It makes me realize how I don't like who he has become.

Hugs to you, you will look back one day and see the strength you have gained! I am waiting for this day too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , but keep living and enjoying life while he is in lala ville... perhaps your wh will stay gone in lala ville, perhaps he will return to realityville. Who knows?

You didn't cause it, you can't cure it or control it. That is something they say in alanon.. we too can use it for this affair addiciton. It is like they have lost touch with who they really are. Believe me I know.

My once loving husband today actually invited me to 'his' church in 'his' new neighborhood... whatever... Well, in reconciliation attempt, I went. I tried to look on his hymnal... and he sd get your own book- now this was b/c our son had me busy... then on communion he scooted away.... and didn't want me next to him. Real christian attitude right?

Anyway, gotta go clean, take care of kids, prepare for work tomorrow...

You too are getting stronger T!

Hugs, Honey