My h and I were seperated. He is now back home after I was doing a secsessful plan b. He was very inthusiastic about the rebuilding of or marriage etc, now just under a week he is not sure we will make it. We have argued and love busted a little, becouse he wants to mantain a friendship with the ow! I thought and thought about this. I've always thought that they were just really good friends that crossed a majore line. But could I handle this? Not realy, but if it didn't take away from his time spent here, and I trusted that it was just a friendship, my h would be happy.

We agreed on turms and conditions to this friendship, so that it would create a safe invironment to rebuld trust etc... I was simpathetic to him about the lose of someone that was so important to him for a year.

Any way he has not commited to this as he stated. He has become more and more confused and introverted since the repeted contact with the ow. That he wasn't supposed to have. He even spent the night there a few times. Saying he fell asleep. Oddly I do belive him, he had told me that he never wants a relationship with her again, it was selfdistructive etc..Just , he can't loose the friendship.

I'm in a spot!I feel now since he took advantage of the first agrement which was just talking on the phone ocashionaly, and went into seeing her and sleeping over night, I have to ask for no contact again. This is a problem because, he has only been home a week!I know he will leave and he will remember the fighting and clingyness from me. I fell into some old behavior patterns that I desplayed before becouse of the disrespectful actions.This is much worse of course than the others I was reacting to.

I'm lost becouse on one hand I could deal with their friendship with sertan peramiters in place. On the other hand since he still is not showing any respect for me , I feel no contact is nesisary, for now.

I'm not sure if contact would be ok after we are secure in our relationship and she moved on.

I also think that if I ask him to leave now he will only have bad things to remember. A naging wife, a hovering wife, a demanding wife, a nonlisten wife, etc... It's been so long since we lived together really, this rolicoster has been going on a year. So you can understand, him comeing back is a big deal.And theres a good chance if asked to leave he may never want to come back.

He said that he needs to wean himself slowly from that friendship.Part of me understands where he is comeing from , but the other part thinks its rediculaus. I feel he has to take a leap of faith in us.But becouse he is still in somewhat of a fog, and he is not willing to let go of her, and now he feels numb to me, he is not going to put forth anything in our relationship at the moment.

I want to be understanding to him, but I need some actions to show he wants this. Maybe I'm scared that he doesn't. We told the kids, everyone that he was back. I was so happy, now I'm misserable.

Can he wean himself slowly and be normal friends with her while haveing our family and me?

Or is nc allways the only sullution and why if so?

Should I just acked indifferent and not lb?

I've been over communicating lately.

I would like to see how things go the next couple of weeks with me being my new self that I avolved into, not the old me that he new. I think he may come to the relization that there friendship will hert our marrige on his own. But I don't know how long that will be.

Help please.

I did plan A and plan B when he lived with her.

I'm lost with recovery,steps , and copeing skills to help me through this process.

I have learned so much about myself through this and I'm so mad that as soon as a fermilar feeling of let down my old self emerged. It makes me look like a fony. I am different, he may never know that though.

ADVICE?

They can never turn the clock back and be friends. Nor can your marriage recover with that pressure. No contact is the only way and he needs to do this to protect you. They are not "friends" and can never be again. If they were just "friends" then you could ALL be friends together and you know thats not possible. Further, no "friendship" is worth a marriage, is it?

killjoy,

Another thing. I think its REAL important to lay down boundaries and POJAs BEFORE the WS moves back in order to prevent occurrances like this. His idea of "tapering" contact off is only an excuse to continue contact and will only prolong his withdrawal. Every contact will put you both back to square 1. As long as he in contact with her, you are NOT in recovery and just wasting your time. If you can't get this worked out, I would personally go back to Plan B until he is REALLY READY to commit to the marriage.

Killjoy --

Short answer: No Contact!

Long answer: No Contact! No "weaning"

It's that simple. Read MelodyLane's two posts. Now please read them again. Everything you need to think about, at least for now, is contained therein. Those boundaries and POJAs are extremely important (her post #2), especially since he's been there a week.

I'm very glad that you've been working on yourself and so successfully too. That's so vital to your growth and healing. Brava! You've got a very good handle on your part of this and that's such an important piece of this fabric for you and your relationship.

Our thoughts and prayers are with you. It's not going to be easy but it will be worth it. Let us know how things are going, please, and let us be there with you...

Ammon

Killjoy- HI I am not really one to give advice,but I just read and had to say something yours sounds very simailar to me and some that I went through .

H was gone lived with OW came back , said nc then wants freindship, u changed while h was gone ect.

NO CONTACT DON't GO DOWN THAT ROAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I went through this for a year and H came back and wanted to wien well now it is 11months and h talks on phone, sees and even sleeps over once in a while (feel asleep on accident no big deal)

I am not saying everone isn't different but I would say NC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Better off if H leaves again then to god forbid put yourself through the rollercoaster all over .

If I am missing something u said , sorry but H came back have those bounderies and don't give in or the things u work so hard on about yourself may be dragged down .

MY STORY IN "JUST FOUND OUT"

EEK! He spent the night over there a few times the first week he was home? Cause he fell asleep in his car?

I used the fell asleep line on my folks a few times during my late teen early 20's - and no, it did not go over well. If I was that tired I could have called them and they would have been more than happy to come one pick me up....

Can he wean himself slowly and be normal friends with her while haveing our family and me?

It's like someone with an alcohol problem. They say they want one thing. I want to be home, want the marriage intact... blah, blah, blah.... But then they say they can handle drinking but they will watch how much they drink. Yeah sure, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> watch as each drink gets poured and put down the hatch....

It's not a trap, he is telling you that he wants to be home... well, if he wants to be home and married he can't be acting like a single guy.

You could in a very joking way ONLY IF it will not be an LB - ask him if he plans on staying out all night because you have been scared and lonely with him back and gone the way he's been... Let him know one of your friends from work will be coming over (no name mentioned) and if you are late watching movies you'll just leave him (very casually say this) on the couch.

I agree with all of you. He even "fell asleep" there last night on Christmas! I gave him an inch, the benifit of the dought, and he took a mile!His atachment to her is more than his atachment to me.His emotional conection if nothing else is atached to her not me. I can't go through this long road, unless I want to be miserable, and I don't.

This is a big gamble, I don't know if this will tern him away, or make him relize the seriousness of this situation.

I'm going to talk with him when he gets home.

I'm going to say that I feel very sad and hurt with his lack of comitment to this marriage. That I felt I was being understanding to him , and he took advantage.I now see that no contact is the only way to recovery. The only way it will ever be just us.That a friendship should never come before a marriage and his spouse. I don't like the person I am with him , with these unreasnable expectations he is imposing on me. I'm completly different now and I want to feel good about
myself, which I don't. He doesn't even show me a consideration of a call, not the night before or in the morning!I feel like the mother of a rebelious teenager, not a wife that he said was the love of his life.

If he can't handle no contact, which I'm asumeing will be the case. I'm going to ask him to move into his mothers.

Ok now I have a new question for you all.

If once at his mothers, if he dosen't bail and go back to her of course.

He tryes to win me over(unlikely) what do I do?
My fear is that once at his mothers he will continue contact with her. There will be no way for me to know.

I'm affraid I don't know what bounderis to set for myself in that situation. I feel no SF should be one of them, but I'm not sure about other effection etc. And plan B might not go over well since now he thinks I'm sure, that I'm no different , when I am.

But at the same time I don't feel the want to do plan A. This is so much of a let down, I feel my taker taking over. I really want him to make the moves to show me he cares.

I just don't know and I'm very scared.

Unforchunatly I think this is the end. He might go to his moms, but I think she is going to be built up so much in his mind again that he will go back. I guess either way, I'll be better off than the way things are going now. But I love him and want our family and marriage. He is so depresed, and confuesd, I thought he was beyond that since he came back without any persute on my part.

So I've decided what to do. Can you all guide me to the next steps after he is out of the house.

ok, I just read 3sacrouds thread, and I'm wondering.

Should I put up and shut up for a couple of weeks, and plan A him?

Then have the talk?

I just want him to really see that I'm not the person he thinks I am. During this time I don't think I can be intamet though.Becouse I can't have him feel that what he does dosen't effect me.

Maybe if I ignore the spending the night over thing the calls every thing and go about my life as if he wasn't here, he will wake up.

Does that sound rediculuse? Another short plan A, and then imediate plan B.

At least I would feel comfortable that I tried, and I've been over comunicating lately, which is all to fermilar to him. I need a chill out time! Then I think I can go to plan b again, after I feel I really tried to be understanding and loveing. I don't feel that my plan A will help anyhting since he is still a cake eater, but I will feel better, being the me that I am now.

Am I makeing any sence here?

Killjoy,

Havent you already done a very good Plan A and shown him the good side of you? Haven't you been meeting his needs on a consistent basis for some time now? You have already covered this ground. It doesn't appear that a flawed Plan A is what has led to this, but a failure to establish boundaries via POJA.

I think the worse thing you can do is IGNORE the fact that he is still sleeping with the OW, that only reaffirms this behavior. I would discuss no contact starting immediately, and failing that, moving onto Plan B.

NO, NO, NO.

I've been down this road. The 15 months it took H to end contact with XOW did far more harm to me and to us than the actual A. My IC and the MC we saw jointly described his ongoing contact with her as "blatant emotional abuse." The MC told me, in H's presence, to leave him at once and divorce him as he had proved himself totally untrustworthy.

If your H is married, he's married. That means "excluding all others."

Do NOT be "understanding" or "nice" about this. Plan B. And don't take him back until he's severed all contact with her and you have jointly gone into counselling where you work out a POJA about the boundaries that will be set up to protect you both and define your marriage.

NO NO NO -

OK I told U to read , because I don't want u to go through this .

It is a living HELL and I am an [censored]!!!!!!!!

I wanted u to see that if u get court up in that and let him stay now u will be enabling him . He will see u are taking it and in turn will have more contact with OW.

H came home suppose to be sorry & work on marriage=NO CONTACT

If I would have thrown him back out in the first week I would not be in HELL AGAIN .

NC ,NC, I repeat NO CONTACT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone here disagree?????????

NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!
NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!
NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!
NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!NO!

And, NO!

I will NOT have any contact with OW...especially w/ co-worker! I won't on many levels, but mostly because I know my walk won't allow me to go back to even a friendship...OW wnated us to continue and despite the impending end of marriage, i choose NOT to be friends! My friend is Jesus, and he wouldn't do it either!

In Christ's Name!
><> (LHF)

No contact!

That is the only way. Please don't allow anything less.

God Bless,
H_P

Hello KJ,

I did not even finish reading your post as what you are trying to "negotiate is UNACCEPTABLE!!!

Would you really want to live like this? IMO as a BS and having experienced this with "what was" a very good friend -- NO WAY!!! Eighteen months later and the fact that OM lives within a couple of blocks is bad enough, but we are making it. Fortunately, there has been no contact, and I know for a fact that OM and his W are also in a major rebuilding stage (and I'm hearing they are doing well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )!

What your H is going through is withdrawl and denial. The ONLY way it will get better for him as well is to end ALL contact! From what I saw of my W, it was very hard for her. But I think as most WS's here would agree, the feelings pass and for some they may become "bitter" and angry with the OP. Afterall, the OP also has a great deal of responsibility for dragging their lives into hell as well...

I hope you can get through this and help him understand that any contact is unacceptable!

MITT

<small>[ December 26, 2002, 12:21 PM: Message edited by: MakingItThruThis ]</small>

OK GUYS!GOT IT LOUD AND CLEAR!

I feel like a failure though. Becouse I went back to my needy self becouse of all of this. I was not expecting this to happen, he seemed so shure and confident! I'm not needy and I know I'm different. I feel that I'm a failure , becouse many of you do plan A in your house with your spouse. I did plan A and plan B while he was living with her. I thought that was harder, but I was wrong. I can't plan A while takeing , and putting up with this.

I am going to have a talk with him today, when he gets home.

Any tips on how to do this , with no love busting, or demands?

Any help would be apriaciated , since I'm very confused, emotionaly and logicaly , in a fog.

I need to make him aware how I feel.Also that we can't rebuild with her in the picture. I need to be clear about no contact. And that I will not be working on our marriage even if he's out of the house if there is contact.

But quite honestly I don't know how to go about this.

I think this will be the end for shure!
And I'm willing for that to happen , as I can't force change or inlitenment apon him.

Please tell me what I should stay away from in this conversation. What are the nono's to bring up.

thanks so much

I knew I would just feel like dieing if I ignored all of this, and I would just build resentment twards him. Which I don't want.

I love him and let him back into my life and my heart, b/c of the things he said to me that i wan't to hear for ever. I melted, and was weak. I need to get strong again, and feel good about myself. I think this will be a hard first step.

He may move back there!

KJ-

I'm so very sorry to hear your pain...I feel IT!
I don't have words of wisdom for you to say to your H, but know that I am praying for ALL the right words to be spoken...The lip of truth is established forever, but a lying tongue is but for a moment! Speak to him in love and truth!

God's Blessings!
I am praying right NOW!

In Christ's Name!
<><

Hey, Killjoy, it's me, 2Hearts. I just posted to you on the other board. So what you're saying is that he spent the night, last night, Christmas, at her place and as of your last post (12:50 pm), he's still not home??? My opinion, kick him out, Plan B, Plan B, Plan B!!! I have never been in your shoes, but I don't know that I'd EVER let him come back. He wants to be with the OW, let him. We've all seen what she's like. It won't be long he'll be begging to come back home. In the meantime, move on with your life. Hopefully, by the time he comes back around you won't even want him. My guess, though, within a week he'll be back over begging and pleading. What a loser!!! JMHO.

Almost (aka 2Hearts)

That's right, still no word even!

Here's the kicker! She's been the sweet friend, the oh I'm going to be truthful now friend. ETC...
She wrote him an 8 page letter which I was not alowed to read! Explaning why she lies and is the way she is. I told him she is trying to get him back and show him things will be different.He said no it dosen't even matter b/c he doesn't want her he wants me.

So tell me , how is he showing me he wants me?

He is still in an emotional affair if not a physical one! And he's digging his grave. He I feel being deprest and lost won't find his way out for a long time.

And it might be to late for him with me.

I've had my fill! If I don't see dramatic changes, I can't be with him, regardless how much I love him. I can't have the marriage I had before, or the relationship, if you can even call it that that we have now. I will not settle, and I do't want him to settle either. Which I think he thinks he is. To me how? I'm a good person, love him, I'm honest, devoted, his childrens mother,his friend. Thats gaining alot not settling. But I forgot I don't spark him! She does , so he may go back to her, have his spark and end up miserable. He is drowning and forgot how to swim. I feel he is not strong enough to say no to her, or end things. And she is so needy, she will never let go. I will not be draged down with them.

"I will not be dragged down with them" - let that be you mantra, UB, and stick to it! You are strong and you deserve more than you are being given.

Stay strong, my dear friend.

2Hearts

Well here it goes. He called me, he was acting like an insensitive basterd. He has no compashion at all for me. I'm so done. He said that he wants to move in with her, as friends and work on our marriage. I said , what? How is that going to work? He said that he dosen't feel comfortable here, and that he wants to be around her. He said I didn't change, like I told you he would say. ETC... I Told him that I have changed so much , but I don't think he'll ever see it with out her in the picture. He said that doesn't make any sence. What about another problem happens. I told him that every time he calls her or says her name, it tares me apart. I felt very insicure and needy, and angry that he was not keeping his promesis, and really trying. I told him all that's going to do is make them closer and us farther apart , becouse I refuse to rebuild while he's living there. If he really wants our marriage, he has to sacrifice something. He has to go to his mothers, wean himself off of her, and work on us.

He said to me something that UC's wife said many times. What would it take to show you this wouldn't work. I said well, give us a month , no contact with her, put all the effort in to our marriage, even if it's forced. Then if you are still unsure leave.

He just was bilitling me. I can't stand it. As I'm typing I can barely make out the screan becouse I'm crying so hard. I don't understand I let go I stoped any effort to show him I love him. This is such a nightmare. What did he expect from me. He stayed out so many nights. Am I really suppost to put up and shut up and have a smile on my face. If he's spending more time with her than me, how could he possibly think I 'm going to feel good or confident in him. This is amazing!

He wanted to call me back, I said no I want to come get you and we can talk about this tonight. He said he doesn't like to be controled, and it will make him want to stay away. I said well if you want to rebild show me , let me come get you. He said no I'm going to eat and call you back and hung up.

I lost it. Left messagas. I don't care, it's her phone but I just don't care. This is unbeliviable!

I said if I don't get a call back soon you can forget about trying with me. And if your not home tonight your stuff will be at her door. I left another message saying that I will not be working on our marriage if he lives there nor will I want anything to do with him ever.And the turms for him comeing back are no contact with her, him moving to his moms, and working on us.

I don't care if he thinks I' m an unreasnable *****. Or if he thinks he got a glimps of what life would be like here. Becouse that's a joke. He has unreasnable expectations of me , that I've tried to bend to , but cant , I won't comprimise my belifes, or self for anyone again.

The funny thing is he was trying to convince me of things not working out. And acting as if I've been trying to get him back. He left becouse he wanted me, he's coping out, and if he can't go through withdrawl, or even go to a nutral place, I' m better of with out him.

I wish he never came home, becouse after all this I won't be able to look at him, or laugh with him. He is killing my love for him.

He through the fact that we can't communicate in my face, becouse they have no problem doing so. Well it's true, we have a terable time communicating with regards to big issues.I need help from him with that. I've been at home for years, have no issues with others, and don't no how to get some things out without coming across the wrong way. But I'm not going to let the blam game get to me. That's fixable, thats one thing I couldn't work on by myself, I was by my self, who would I be practising comunicating with?

I left another message, told him if I don't see him by 8 or here a call for me to get him then I'm done. And that he better think with his heart on that one, not his anger at me, for not being happy and going allong with his unreasnable requests, and logic.

I know he won't come. Or call. And we'll be done, and he'll be angry and mad at me. And they'll get closer and closer. And that will be the end of everything.

I know that if I was stronger in the beging of the affair, and set boundreis for myself and started working on myself. The affair would have been over and we would already be on the road to recovery.

But now I'm going to be blamed for the latest downfall. Becouse I'm erashionl. I should deal with my husbands need and desire to be with the ow as friends. And be acomidating to the fact that he falls asleep there becouse he's comfortable. In what planet! I also am going to be looked down on becouse of my wishy washyness with contact. He mentioned to night that I would be ok with them being friends and working togeter, and that I said that a month ago. And that is true.Although I would feel uncomfortable for a long time. If he was respecting me and didn't go out of the boundries. I could handle that. But he screwd up.He went out of my comfort level.He did not respect me or try , or even be understanding that I was upset and never do it again.

He wants to be a cake eater, and now that I'm saying no, he is going to be mad ,and think of all the reasons why it won't work etc....

Well I loved this man so much I bended more than I should of and all he wants is more. I can't . I may loose the greatest love of my life. The one person that new me better than anyone. My dearest friend. My half of my soal. But I have to put myself first for once. And stop bending.If that makes me a *****. So be it. Someone has to look out for me, someone has to take care of me, someone has to keep my best intrests in mind. So that someone is myself. And I want to love myself again.

He can be angry , he can think what ever he likes, he can think I was being manipulative by plan Aing , what ever. I loved him and needed to learn how to show him even though I was hurting. I wanted him to feel safe and loved by me wether that be a friendship or our marriage. No ill intent, no fakeness. But now he feels I'm a frode. So let him. I'm not I now what my intention were. I am angry, so angry, and hurt, let him think I'm erational. Let him indulge into that life again. Let him do or think what ever he wants. I just am to tired and beat down to care.

And it sucks so bad. He's such an amazing man, that doesn't feel amazing to himself anymore. I want to be with him so bad.And a big part of him must have wanted that too. But now it's to screwed up. And we may never be together because he moved back before he was ready,and I couldn't cope with the lack of atenten or compashion, and the atention and compashion he was showing her.

I wish he never moved back. I dont even want to be around him. He tore me apart.

I called again left another message.

I said I do not want him to come home tonight,or call. I said I will drop off some clothes in front of the door tommorow. And I will give him untill sunday to think about things. If on sunday he still wants to reconsile he needs to go to his moms stop contact with her and start rebuilding with me. I said that if he stays there I will not be working on our marriage nor will I be anything to him.

And I ment every word. This is the last straw.How could he be this worped. How can he think for a second we can work on us , when he's clearly in an emotional affair. And dosen't want to break the bond with her, becouse he's uncomfortable here. I can't deal with this logic, and I'm done trying to.

I expect him to stay there and don't have any hope our marriage. Sadly I think he's going to be self destrucktive, and I'm worried that he might do something really harmfull to himself. I truely hope not, but it does scare me. But I can't live my life this way. And I desirve the love and attention a wife should get, not to mention respect. Something he has never had for me. NEVER.

I love him so much, and I'm so hurt. It's going to take me so long to get through this, espeshialy since he made me feel so loved for a breif moment. I totaly trusted him again, gave him my heart.I really didn't think this would happen, he persude me, he came home, I did not do anything to make him do that. I just don't get it.

I will never understand his heart and mind.

How can he love someone , and do , and act like this to them.