What about the last 20 years - has your H complained of the kids not respecting him, or is this something new? I ask, in part, because my H never said a word about anything of the sort, but after the affair began he suddenly began to become easily annoyed by things the kids (or I) did or said that never appeared to bother him before.

The problem with the kids has been longstanding. However, NOW, everything seems to bother him.

He's acting NORMAL tonight, like his old self. I'm trying to read what this means. I don't want to be too suspicious.

Don't rush into separation yet. You need to be ready for it. If you rush, and then waffle because you don't really want the sep, you send a mixed message. Keep him home, and close to you, that will drive OW crazy and she will start to LB.
In the meantime, keep up the Plan A!

He is acting angry because he is conflicted and confused. As MelodyLane said, you are taking away his justification for the affair. He will try to provoke you. He's also angry because your niceness is stirring up his guilt feelings.

Continue your Plan A. Some techniques to use:

1) Periodically work in some reference to positive shared history between you. ex. remember when we first got our dog, the summer at the lake, when you won the bowling trophy. You have to be subtle, but work that stuff in. Also bring up discussions of friends you have in common, relatives etc. as long as the topic won't lead to arguments. Anywhere you can remind him that you know and understand him alot better than OW. If you can, arrange some get togethers with friends, painful tho it might be for you.

2) Plan some fun activities, things you know he would enjoy, and ask him along. Like going to a movie (if he likes movies). Or a musical event- or a sporting event.

3) Continue to acknowledge and apologize for making him feel undermined. Show understanding of his feelings. You can say, I had no idea of how painful this was for you- I see now that you want a close and respectful relationship with our sons. I made assumptions I shouldn't have.... etc etc.

4) You can mention that you are looking forward to having time with him- your sons will be grown soon- does OW know about the vasectomy? Won't she want kids eventually- most 25 year olds do?

5) Be affectionate and cuddly. Back rubs are an excellent idea if he likes them. No bodily fluid exchange until he gets tested. (In emergency, limit any fooling around to hands only) You can go see your gynecologist and then tell your H- my MD wants tests for- herpes, genital warts, chlamydia, AIDS, hepatitis etc. the point is to educate him on all the things he could catch from her. Don't disparage the OW- just say, being a young girl, I'm sure she's had past boyfriends- one of them could have given her something- and some of this stuff is asymptomatic. Be nice and calm when you discuss this stuff. Take a pragmatic tone- "I'm sure you understand, that I don't want to be exposed to her germs". etc.

6) Continue to work on the relationship with your sons. Do your sons know? If not, don't tell them of the A. Enlist your sons help if you can. Back your H up and demand respect from them.

7) Do protect your assets just in case. If you have assets he can't get at, then you are right not to force a confrontation over a bank account that doesn't contain the bulk of the assets. Make it clear to him that if he leaves you will stand up for your rights. Also make it clear to him that if he leaves that since you love him your heart will be broken and to go on in life, you will have to cut him out of your heart- you will not be able to be friends with him.

also, re: counseling. You don't get him there by saying he has a problem. Reasons for him to go- 1) "I want to get help understanding how to deal with the kids and I need you there by my side."
2) I want to understand the mistakes I made in our M and I think it would be helpful to discuss it together with a counselor.
3) Before we throw away a 26 year long marriage shouldn't we at least go see a counselor. If our M fails I will be able to accept it better knowing we both sought help together.

CAVEAT- Make sure your counselor is good. There are alot of bad ones out there.

It sounds like you are doing a very good job so far. I hope it will work.

<small>[ January 06, 2003, 10:19 PM: Message edited by: espoir ]</small>

Thanks All:

I'm being cautiously optimistic. Of course, its hard to trust my WS. However, he is continuing to act more like himself without the WALL that he had built up and without the ranting that he was doing over the weekend.

I can't help but think that it was the SEX conversation that I had with him prior to going to sleep on Sunday night. Monday morning was when he woke up with the completely different attitude which has continued to this morning. Our SEX life has always been special and has continued to be good even during the A. He said the A was not about SEX.

Well, I was intimate with him. He was VERY ROMANTIC about it, like his old self. He asked me not to cry because I have done so in the past at the thought of him being with another woman. That was while I was suspicious and the A was not confirmed. It was done SAFELY at my request. Guess what? He ended up CRYING. Had to go in the bathroom and close the door to continue just like I had done Sunday night. I didn't comment on the crying. I did thank him for the specialness of our time together and told him that I love him.

If he does decide to leave, I have this one special memory that I don't think that I will ever forget. Maybe he is trying to fool me again but my gut says that this was sincere.

I'm going to my therapist this evening to sort some things out, figure out more on my own about the RESPECT issue. Will bring up the family counselor with WS again this evening. Yesterday he told me that he would "think about it", didn't say NO.

I've had no further discussion about contact with the OW. I realize in the light of day that I need to make it clear to him that I can't participate in MAN_SHARING, mixing of fluids, etc.

Any thoughts?

Mimi,

I think you are doing exceptionally well in your Plan A and he is responding to your new treatment of him. Do you think that his number one emotional need is ADMIRATION? I can't help but wonder if much of this has taken place because he did not feel admired by his family and desperately needed that. Now that he has your attention, he seems relieved. Am I reading this the right way?

You are doing well in showing him the BEST SIDE of you right now. If you moved to seperation right now, it would probably be devastating to your marriage, because he will only remember the lovebusters, lack of respect and being undermined in his home. You will just push him into the arms of an admiring, silly OW, who DOES meet his EN of admiration.

On the other hand, if you continue to work on yourself and fulfilling his needs, *IF* you do need to separate, you will give him a reason to WANT the marriage and want you.

I also think its wonderful that you are able to tell him your feelings in a calm, respectful way. He seems to be very responsive to that.

Any thoughts on contacting the Harleys for counseling? Many so-called marriage counselers are not very marriage "friendly" and too quickly suggest divorce.

I've been noticing that a lot of my so-called support systems are not "marriage-friendly". Even my own mother was encouraging me to separate from my WS this morning. I will call the Harleys today.

Admiration is certainly a major need of his. What about this SEX issue? I think he likes it that I NEED him. Is that ADMIRATION???

oops! double post!

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Maybe he thinks you ADMIRE his performance? What a compliment you paid him when you said that! It sounds like he needed to hear it. That seems to be a real biggie with guys because I think it makes them feel "like a man," a big problem with your WS. It is a very big need with my DH.

Another question. Do you make more money than your H?

My WS makes alot more money than I do. However, to be honest, I am very intelligent and I think he is threatened by this more than he has admitted. I thought he liked it in the past, able to rely on me for information and how to figure out problems. We met in college and I often helped him with his work. I think now he wants to be the smart one! Thus, the A with the OW who does not have a college education whereas I have a graduate degree. I do have a good income but he makes more.

ditto Mel.

Keep up the good work and good THINKING!!

WAT

Mimi,

I shudder at how much we have in common. [in your current marriage and my last, which I lovebusted all the way to a quick divorce]

I was also much more intelligent than my last DH [the one who left me for the uneducated house painter] and he came to me for all the heavy thinking. I assumed that role and over the years basically lost respect for him and began to undermine him at every turn. I look back now and I understand why he left me. He didn't feel like a man anymore.

It also didn't help matters that I made 5 X the money he made and was the main breadwinner.

The reason I am saying this is because I do think that is what is going on here. It sounds like he loves you dearly and obviously your opinion of him means very much. I can tell that by his reaction to your compliment about sex. And as you said, he seems to be physically attracted to you still, which is a great sign.

The only thing we need to change here is WHERE he goes to get his need for admiration fulfilled. If he gets it fulfilled at home with you and the kids, that skaggy OW won't look so attractive anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

great job Mimi. I think that your counselor is off base in their interpretation. I think maybe your WS is waking up a little bit, feeling bad about what he's doing.

It's a great sign that he wants to be intimate with you. And that he was careful of your health. Make sure you spell out what he needs to do. I told my H he'd have to get tested- my GYN told me what for. I found a confidential clinic (don't send him to his regular doc- humiliating)and held H's hand while he went down to do it. He didn't like it, but he went along with it. It's all blood tests.

Your H may backslide, but he may also be relieved to end his double life. He may be afraid of committing to this OW. Interesting that it's been going on for a year and he never made any moves to leave prior to Dday. (The scary ones are the ones who sit their unsuspecting W down, and say, BTW I'm moving in with OW- then they move and that's it).

Do you have Surviving an Affair, Torn Asunder, or After the Affair. I used to read excerpts to my H post Dday while he was still waffling. Just info about As- the fact that people can recover from them, that marriages can improve.

Espoir,

I will reply to this post and your other post on AM I FOOLING MYSELF? I guess that's where I am psychologically right now. Hope to visit with you there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />