TM -

You are starting to recognize the pattern. The depression is going away because the "FIX" is there.

I commend you for not checking up on her. At this point, I wonder why you would want to make yourself THAT crazy.

Until she wants to stop, she will find a way to be with him. Don't make yourself crazy by trying to "catch" her at it. Even if you do, she will stone clod deny it to your face. THAT is the nature of the monkey on her back.

I suggest just working on you. Seek out that support group. Deal with those issues. If and when the time comes that you and she work on "R", you will be in a much better place to help her.

Find a safe outlet for your feelings.

Thanks Kily,
The wondering is what kills me. But it is getting easier. Would it be bad to ask her if she's talked to or seen him? I'm not sure I would get a straight answer anyway, but it's a question I want to ask.

I have realized (especially since that transferrence thread) that there is NOTHING I can do for her. She needs to do it for herself, I just wish I could help.

I'm going on with me and my problems, just a little more down I guess because she's in contact with him. I'm not having good thoughts, but I'm trying to be strong.

I hate to jump in on your thread because I don’t have any advice but I found it so interesting since I’ve been going through a similar experience with my WH.

In my case, I am due to have our 2nd child any day. H came home a week (after having moved out for the last 4 mths and conducting a PA/EA with OW) before X-Mas out of feelings of “obligation” (his words) towards me, the unborn child and our 2 year old. When he first came home he said he wanted to work on our marriage. My only stipulation was NC with OW. But soon after he arrived, he became so angry and sullen towards me and would barely look at me or talk to me. One night he told me that were it not for the baby coming he would still be with OW and he felt like I wasn’t doing a very good job taking care of myself, our house, and our child. I don’t think I Lbed and I tried to be very supportive during his W/D – but I was becoming an emotional wreck almost worse than when the A was discovered.

Twice he contacted OW from his cell phone – I checked the call log. Upon the second time, I said that “I couldn’t continue living like this” and that he had violated the one thing we had agreed upon. I nicely asked him to move back to his apartment. I said that he was welcome to come and spend as much time as he’d like with us and that I love him and that once the baby is born we can work out some other arrangement. He agreed that he had violated our agreement and that this was appropriate.

I don’t know if I made the right decision for preserving our marriage or not. It is likely that he has contact with OW every day now. I have no way of knowing. But I think that like they say, this is a decision that the WS has to make for his/herself. We can’t force it or they look at us as their wardens keeping them from their one true love. I have the advantage of my H being on call to take me to the hospital (so he can’t see the OW who live an hour away very easily).

Any ways, I wanted you to know that I know how miserable living with someone going through w/d can be. It’s so unfair to the BS. In my case, I felt like I could handle it, but the anger towards me and breaking the NC agreement was too hard for me to live with right now. I finally made a decision based on the way I am feeling rather than what would be “better” for our marriage. Since then H has been a lot nicer and at ease with me. When he comes over he is pleasant and helps me do all the things that are difficult to do at the end of pregnancy. I’ve tried right now to view him as my “helper” as he has agreed to, rather than my husband, and have not tried to push R or future talk on him. I figure he’ll have to take the reins on that if it is ever going to happen.

What do you guys think? Am I off base (i.e. encouraged him to go back to her) or do you think I’ve done the right thing?

dueinjan -

BRAVO!

Good for you! I know how hard it must be being so close to your delivery, but right now you need to take care of you. The less you need from H, the more he is going to want to give.

Are you considering PLAN B at all? What do you think you will do after the delivery?

I think that the feelings you have will tell you if your acions were the "right" ones.....

dueinjan,
I applaud your strength. I don't know if I would be strong enough to make that decision. I hope someday I will find the strength somewhere, but when or where I have no idea.

You do have a plus side to this, at least your H said he would/wanted to work on your M. My wife will not even consider it. She says it was done before, OM just complicated things and got in the way. Don't know if that's true, I really don't think so, but either way she won't even atttempt.

I've posted this on another one of my threads, but I wanted to get it out here and see what everyone thinks. The following is what I've done so far with my Plan A. Am I on the right track or have I missed the boat completely?

I just finished HN/HN, she read it too. Unfortunately I think she applied it to OM instead of me. oops!! I plan on reading "Surviving an Affair" as soon as possible.

I know this is only the beginning, and I'm sure I'm making mistakes with my plan A, here it is so far let me know if I'm off track or not:
1)I try and be more upbeat, not only around her, but all the time.
2) When I'm around her I try not to get emotional or upset, I keep it in until I have somewhere I can vent (or breakdown) alone.
3) I have not asked about OM, although I desperately want to ask if they've talked or seen each other.
4) I try to console her, tell her I want to be her best friend because I do. She pushes me away, I tell her I'm here for her when she's ready.
5) I've stopped doing the things she says bother her: calling, e-mail, saying I Love You, touching, being too close to her.
6) I have not talked about reconcilliation unless she brings it up. If we do talk I tell her I know it can/will work, but only if we both fix ourselves first.
7) I have been picking up the slack around the house, cooking meals (complex ones too, not Mac & Cheese or PBJ), cleaning house, doing laundry. Doing the little things like replacing lightbulbs right away instead of the usual 2-3 weeks.
8) I've began to spend more time with my kids. Some just talking, some doing projects, but I try to avoid sitting in front of the TV like we used to. Just because we're cuddling in front of the TV doesn't mean it's quality time, I realize that now.
9) I've began IC for my problems. I've spent a considerable amount of time researching my symptoms and my family history. It's been very enlightening. I share these things with my wife because she seems genuinely interested.
10) I've gone back to church and found one that the kids and I like. If wife comes (she promised she would, but now she's backing out) that's good, if not we're still going.
11) I've began to MAKE myself eat. I've lost 15 lbs this past month and my clothes are falling off me.
12) I've started a work out program that I'm convinced will kill me, but it's a positive way to release my tension and frustration.
13) Probably the biggest and hardest thing I've done is put myself in check. Normally when I have something new I dive in head first 110 mph. I'm slowing everything down and trying to take baby steps with everything.

This is probably the 1 thing that she will be waiting for. I usually jump in head first, then tire of something and drop it after a few months or so. Personally I think her 10 year time line is a little off, but if that's what it takes.

I've resisted urges to call someone for comfort. Sometimes I need a hug or kind word so bad I want to. But I know that will only lead to more problems, and it will fix nothing.

I've talked to her about Anti-D. She won't have it. She says she knows what depression is, she's been living with it most of her life. She's not depressed anymore. I agree she's lived with depression her whole life, but I wish she would seek help for it. She's studying Psychology so she thinks she's taking care of herself. I think all she's doing is educating herself so she knows what to tell IC, maybe not consciously, but on a subconscious level I think that's what she's doing. She's so pig headed she thinks she can do everything on her own and doesn't need anyone to help her (I need to thank her mom for that one).

When she's in bed I usually do housework or do something with the kids. I try to talk to her when I go in to wake her up, but only if she lets me.

I've tried to put my needs aside, but that's hard. She knows me so well she can see when I need something.

I know this has been extremely long winded, but if I put it all out there maybe someone can see some holes in it, or see something I can change/modify.

Thank you for your kind words. Believe me, this whole experience has been the most horrible time in my life. Yes, my H said initially upon returning that he wanted to work on the M, but then changed it to say that he was there out of "obligation" and didn't know how long it would last. I just keep saying to myself "the fog, the fog" and try not to take it personally. I don't know if we MBers are deceiving ourselves by the fog concept or not, but it helps me keep hope alive.

Similar to your situation, my H says he is "in love" with the OP. Again, I try to tell myself that he'll come out of it eventually and at that point we can address the problems in our M. When I get down and start thinking about the deception, the degredation and the unfairness of it all - I try to say a prayer instead. I never had considered myself a religious person but have developed a relationship with God that has really helped me to let things happen and not try to control them as much as I tried when this first occurred.

I think after the baby is born my H will move into our guest room to help. My plan is to wait until March and if he is still unwilling to commit to working on our marriage, I'm going to move to Plan B (as much as possible). I figure that gives him some time to get off the fence and gives me some time to recover physically and emotionally from childbirth. I never thought I'd last this long in this situation or that this A would continue so long. But it has, and I am stronger for it (that's about the only positive thing I can say).

This site has been such a great help to me. Good luck to you. You seem like a great person. I'm obviously no expert but it sounds like you're doing all of the right things and all of the things you can be doing.

Me - 34
WH - 33
Married 9 years
2 yo son
H started PA/EA 7/2002
Discovered by OW's H 8/2002
H moved out 9/02
H came back 12/02
H moved out 1/03
Prior to this my H would say, "my marriage and family are the best things that ever happened to me and are the most important things in my life."

I've been thinking about asking her if she wants me to move to the couch. She's never mentioned this, but I'm wondering if it would be a good gesture on my part to give her space.

Thoughts, commments, suggestions?

Hi TM -

In regards to the qusetion about sleeping on the couch, I would say that unless it makes YOU uncomfortable to sleep next to her, then don't make the offer. If she is uncomfortable, she will ask you or move there herself.

Part of the reasoning on this is that it's still your territory. If she asks and you oblige in a very LOVING way, then you've deposited in her LB in a FOG kind of way......

Don't voluntarily give anything away. Only do it if it's requested or if it is something that YOU want.

Hi TM:
I know you've got alot on your plate as I've read most of your posts. But I must say that your "plan" sounds wonderful. Even if your W doesn't end up reconciling with you, what a better person you are going to be because of your plan. I know that's probably not much comfort now but just wanted to encourage you to keep doing what you're doing for YOU.
DB

Thanks Kily,
I wasn't really sure how to look at it, I felt mixed about it. But what you say makes sense. I don't feel comfortable in our bed with her there or not. I cannot sleep. I have never been able to sleep without her, even when I had to leave for months at a time I would come home exhausted because it would take me months to get used to her not being there. Now she's working nights and I'm alone in bed again.

On her nights when she doesn't work I can't sleep because I want to cuddle her like we used to, but I know I can't. It's funny, she was always the one that wanted to keep our small bed because she wanted to be closer to me. Now we sleep in a full size bed but it's like she's miles away.

Good News:? Just got off the phone with her, she's been crying again today, spend most of the day in bed again. Maybe there hasn't been any contact after all? Or then again, maybe she's just saying that...

DB,
Thanks for the words of encouragement. If it wasn't for this site I think I would have lost my mind a few weeks back.

I know what I'm doing will be better for me, and for my kids in the long run. That's why I'm doing it. I know any temporary changes I make to get her back will only drive her further away if she did come back and I changed back. So, with the exception of cooking all the meals, doing all the laundry and doing all the house work everything is permanant and for ME. And I figure if she does leave I'm still going to have to cook, clean and cook for myself and my kids, so that MAY be permanant too.

TM -

Just step back from your emotional reactions and observe with your new found insight.

I think that the A is really starting to END, but it is going to go back and forth for a while. OM is retreating and trying to figure out what he wants so he is ping-ponging between his W and yours. Your W is completely in the FOG and is reacting to the situation.

Just keep the faith, work on you, LOVE her as much as you can, and keep PLAN A'ing. This is the time that will test your marriage and commitment the most.

Kily,

That's what I've been trying to do. My emotional reactions tell me to run out of the house and follow her wherever she goes, go home during the day to see if she's still there, etc. I know I can't do that, I'd be driving myself crazy and it would be a major LB if she knew about it.

I'm trying to make myself stop trying to figure her out, but that's hard. Last night when I got home from the gym she was rubbing my shoulders, had me come sit in the chair with her and gave me a back rub. Then she laid her head on my shoulders and took a nap, arms around me and all cuddled up. When I said I was going to take a shower she kept talking to me, wouldn't let me go. I didn't mind it, but it was different.

I don't know how to take any of this. She said she was crying yesterday, but I found no Kleenex's, so I tend to think she's just telling me these things. And there's money that's unaccounted for. I tend to think this is going to pay for pre-paid phone cards to call OM from work. I really don't know.

Like I said I'm trying not to analyze her so much, but I find myself analyzing everything she does and says. I'm guessing this is normal, but then again what is "normal".

The past few days have been so much better, I think because I've realized that I really do have to do this for ME, and I AM.

I forgot to mention a couple of things in my last post. On my way home from the gym last night I stopped and got her a tanning membership. She's been talking about it lately, how much she misses the tanner, how bad she needs to get back. And I know that sunlight (even the fake stuff) does bring a person's mood up. So I stopped and got her a gift certificate.

She was very appreciative, even hugged me (TWICE). She asked why and I just told her I knew she wanted it, and I thought it might help her get out of the dumps. She said thanks again.

And, I stopped and picked up a scroll saw to cut out my son's pinewood derby car (cub scouts). In the past I've always used a jig saw and did A LOT of sanding becuase it was so horrible. I've always been too cheap to buy a good saw that would work better. Now, I don't see it in the same light. I see it like this: If I can do something that will make HIM feel better, and make things better for MY SON then you can't put a price tag on it. Kinda like that Master Card commercial.

This surprised her too. She kept asking what was wrong with me, why I wasn't sticking to my "budget" that she despises so much, and why I was doing these things. I just told her I knew the tanning membership would make her happy, and what was a few bucks for a new saw to help my son.

I wasn't sure if I should buy the tanning membership or not. I didn't want her to take it the wrong way. And, I honestly don't want OM to reap the rewards of my gift and money. That was probably the biggest hang up. The night before I picked her up a couple pairs of undies. She has been saying she needed more, so it was an impulse. Wasn't sure about that one for the same reasons, but I did it anyway.

Thoughts?

Ya I know I do a lot of posting, but hey it keeps me sane, gives me an avenue to vent and get things out in the open to try and figure them out.

TODAY'S UPDATE:
She's called me a couple of times today. This is highly unusual. She used to call 3-5 times a day, and I used to do the same. But since D-day she hasn't called at all. No real meaningful conversations, just little things mostly. But nothing that couldn't have waited until tonight.

I just got off the phone with her, she was down, crying. Said she was going to quit school, etc. I asked if she was ok, no response, I asked if she wanted to talk, she said NO, I told her if she needed anything to let me know, and I could come home from work if she wanted me to. She said NO, said she had to go and hung up.

So, here we go again... we'll see how this plays out. I'm gonna keep my mouth shut this time and just see if she'll let me be there for her. She's got school tonight, maybe she will talk when she gets home.

Lately it seems as if she wants to talk more, like she sees the changes. But she still talks CONSTANTLY about impending seperation. It's like it has to come up in every conversation so she knows that I won't mistake her talking to me for her changing her mind about leaving....

TM -

It does sound like she is starting to recognize the changes. This is good. Remember though, she is STILL in the FOG and her and the OM will dance some more before this is done.

Having her home and crying is a GOOD thing. The more she does it, the more she will see your efforts. Tanning - AWESOME! You scored BIG with that one.

The next time she brings up a separation, try the reverse babble thing. Maybe say something like "Gosh honey, I could see why you feel this way. I know how hard life has been with me...."

She will NOT know what hit her!

Good Luck and thanks for the quarter. I'll put it in my bank for the next rainy day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Kily,
I know the roller coaster isn't going to flatten out any time soon. But it does make me feel good that she's crying (as bad as that may sound). Maybe I have been jumping to conclusions, then again maybe he just isn't giving her as much as she'd hoped for. There I go again, trying to analyze everything.

QUOTE:
The next time she brings up a separation, try the reverse babble thing. Maybe say something like "Gosh honey, I could see why you feel this way. I know how hard life has been with me...."

I've tried this a couple of times, with mixed responses. I'm afraid that it's giving acceptance to the fact that she wants to leave. But then again, I realize her problems cannot be worked out with me in the same house right now. So I'm stuck on that one. Part of me doesn't want her to leave for ANY reason. Then the logical part kicks in and says that she has to go through this on her own because 1)I have caused her pain, regardless of the "Transferrance" theory or not, 2) She doesn't trust me enough to be vulnerable in my presence.

When it comes my normal response is "I don't want you to leave, but I realize that you will not work through your problems with me here. So, I recognize the fact that you may have to go in order to make yourself better."

Kily, hope your day is going a little better.

Last night sucked as I suspected it would. She was in her "detached" state. Mean, hurtful, constantly talking about divorce, etc. That was before she went to school.

When she got home we talked for a couple of hours. She admitted A LOT of resentment toward me for a situation that happened in our home a few years ago. Short version: We had a party, a guest sexually assaulted her, she told me the next day, I convinced her that the best thing to do would be to report it, she did, nothing happened, she slipped into a HUGE depression and began to change more drastically, I slipped into a depression (I couldn't even protect my wife in our own home). She says she doesn't hate him, I think she hates me for it because I pressured her to report it. She has never told me what happened that night, only that is was sexual assault.

When we went to bed last night she told me she saw OM last night on the road. She said her first instinct was to smash her car into his. She said she didn't think he saw her because he was talking on cell phone when he passed her. Not sure why she told me this, or what reaction she was expecting.

I hate her going to school.... I never know if she's really there. I'm always wondering if she's meeting him, or leaving early again, etc. Her mentioning OM just made me wonder why. Did she really meet him and this was her way of justifying the meeting by saying she saw him?

TM-

Once again your wife is laying responsibility at your feet because you are the convenient target. She is blaming YOU for encouraging her to stand up for her rights? I think what is going on is that she is internally devastated that this person was able to get away with whatever it is he did to her. The system didn’t work to protect her, so she turns that to “You couldn’t protect me.” Perhaps some of that is true. I don’t know the circumstances, but your accountability to this issue is not 100%.

I want to share a quick story about me that applies to this.

When I was 21 I ran the SERVICE DEPARTMENT for the company that I worked for. There was a man there that consistently made sexual innuendos towards me, and I constantly complained to my X about it. X usually wrote it off and told me that I was imagining things. I never stood up for myself because I believed what X was saying. Finally one day, this person decided to feel me up in front of 2 of the people in my department! I was humiliated and scared out of my tree. I believed that I deserved this treatment because X was so dismissive of it. When I finally admitted to what happened, I went to personnel with the situation. I was made to feel as if it were my fault, I ended up apologizing to HIM and he was able to keep his job without even a warning. Imagine how demoralizing this was to me, a kid of 21 that had already been molested by her own father!!!

Forward the tape to a get together after work one evening. I am dancing with a high up Engineer that I now work with. His wife is standing next to X watching us. They are sharing a conversation and watching. All of a sudden the Engineer’s hand slips down to my a$$ and he starts to fondle it! Both parties continue to watch this, and no one says a word! I am humiliated and angry that X wouldn’t stand up for me. He encourages me to just hush up, suck it up, and move on. I am at a point where I feel like I have no right to feel violated. I believe once again that I deserve this.

The last situation that I will raise is that again I am in supervisor mode. Now I am about age 23. I work VERY closely with a man that has major control issues. He is not well liked by anyone in the company, but for some reason, he and I communicate relatively well. I am not comfortable around this person, but I am one that likes to be friendly towards everyone. Well one particular day, it is just he and I in the department. For whatever reason, everyone else was out sick. This particular day, I am covering the quality assurance area because product had to ship. This man decides to tell me that “He is in LOVE with me, and that I make him feel as if he were 15 again”! He is well into his forties! Once again I am in a very awkward position. I feel VIOLATED, and I nearly fell off the chair with is admission. I was disgusted, but I was polite to him. When I told my X what was going on, he didn’t BELIEVE me. He told me that I was making this up and once AGAIN, I was left to feel like I should just grin and bear it. It took X years to realize that I WAS telling the truth, but the damage to my self-esteem and EGO was severe by now.

So, you’re wondering why I’m raising this and how it affects YOU.

It wasn’t XBF’s issue. It was mine! He was responding the only way he knew how. He couldn’t comprehend that I was being victimized because he never knew what being victimized was! I was looking for him to validate my rights. After all, he was the one that I LOVED and trusted most! His opinion was “MY” truth. I was giving him “ownership” of my feelings and reactions. When he dismissed things, I interpreted that to mean – You asked for it and deserved it!

Just writing this, I didn’t understand how much DAMAGE this had caused me. It’s really painful to go back here and see how little I mattered to myself. I am so GLAD that I am where I am at today.

I hope this made you see something…….If not, ask me and I will elaborate on what I’m trying to get you to understand.