I have yahoo and msn.... you'd need to have my hotmail address for that... but they're not on because I'm supposed to be working!!

Cool, I'm on Yahoo as well -- Smart to leave them off while you are working though!

I just ordered Michelle's "Divorce Remedy" book. Heard a lot of good things about it so I figured now was as good a time as any to add it to my library.

Going to head off now and let you get your work done. Hope to hear from you over the weekend then, good luck!

ALS

I'm seriously considering taking Michele's coach training this spring. It would add another level of what I can offer. Far less work than the Harley course has been!!!

Night John Boy......

C

ALS-

It really is interesting how similar our situations appear to be.....

My wife is insisting that it is not about the OM, rather it is choosing to be single vs. married. I am 35, she is 33. We have been married for 8+ years and together 12+.

Do I necessarily believe what she says? Yes, I do believe she is making a single vs. married choice. But I also believe that the existence of the OM really clouds the situation- the FOG that is continously referenced around here.

I can tell you this, you are at an advantage in that you and your wife are speaking. Mine will not speak with me or see me, says it is too hard. E-mail only and very impersonal. But again, at least it is cordial and occasionally there is a little bit of personal stuff sprinkled in.

But I live the same fear that you do, the OM really doesn't matter and if my wife leaves him it by no means indicates that we will get back together.

As I said previously, my wife insists she will "be in touch with me" by the end of January. Do I believe this to be true? Yes, I do. Do I think it will amount to anything? Frankly, No. But the one thing I am going to do, and I will encourage you once again as well, is to not contact her whatsoever prior to her making the next contact. It is hard, soooo hard I agree. But don't do it. I actually like the idea of not responding when that contact comes and making her contact me a second time before I respond. I had been thinking about that prior and may end up doing just that. But I really feel strongly that an e-mail will do you absolutely no good.

Realistically, what is the upside to your e-mail? It won't bring her back, you know that to be true. She knows how you feel, you know that is true as well. There is nothing positive that will come to you, either it will be no reaction or God forbid simply make her angrier than she is today- can you really afford for that to happen?

My advantage over you is no divorce talk as of yet- except what I initiated when I was PO'd early on. But that could happen to me soon, I realize that to be true. You are already there, why would you want to potentially make things worse by telling her what she already knows- you care, you love her, you're giving her space, blah, blah, blah. DON'T DO IT!!!

Again, we are running parallel lives. It's Friday night, we are both sitting here thinking our W's are with the OM- and it's probably true. All we can do is wait, hope, and pray that the FOG will lift and we will get our chance. It may or may not happen, but don't do anything to make your already difficult situation worse.

I've been there done that and LB'd all over the place these last 3 months. No more, I will do everything in my power to make it difficult for my wife to not think that I am the best option for her to choose. If she doesn't, well it's her loss. But I won't go down without a fight and I will come out of this a better man. You can do this as well, hang tough and play it out for as long as you can. DO NOT CONTACT HER, YOU HAVE NOTHING NEW TO SAY!!!!!

Be strong, you have many friends here. Consider me one of them. I will be curious as to how both of our situations play themselves out......

Sadinaz,

I can tell you are going through exactly what I am, so I do appreciate your support. It's frustrating because it seems neither of us are getting results.

I'm really pissed at myself right now because my wife WAS starting to talk to me again, just starting actually, and I think that phone call on Thursday might have ended that. So I may be where you are now as well, back to rare, "official" talk only, nothing friendly, just business. I am still hopeful that she may call again just to talk but the chances are low.

So, Cerri, who's been a great coach on this, is trying to decide now whether a very short email to my W is a good idea or not. I can say for sure it would be the last one until I heard back from her. I have been giving a lot of thought to what you said though and may not send anything at all, either. You have said a lot of stuff that makes sense, and I may just wait this out with no further contact at all.

Still kicking myself for that damn phone call though! If only I could have ran away from that R talk. Still feeling stupid for allowing that to happen.

ALS

WAT:

"quote:
Originally posted by T-zero:
And it's not too hard to make the argument that getting complacent is somewhat less an infraction than choosing to have an A as a reaction...
WOW!!

I kiss you feet, T-zero. And Mel for her quote on another thread. You guys are awesome.

WAT"

Save yourself! I wouldn't want you to get hurt! Actually, trouble is that my W thinks that complacency is a felony, but having a 12-yr EA/PA is a misdemeanor.

Isn't it funny how our WS's can continue to justify their A by telling us all the things that we did to lead up to it, yet never really point the finger at themselves as say "Wait a sec, I CHEATED on my spouse! That's the worst betrayal there is!".

Sure, we all have admitted to our responsibilities in causing the deterioration of the M, but I continually marvel in the fact that my W is capable of smiling at herself in the mirror knowing what she's done. It's truly amazing.

At any rate, that may sound bitter, but for some reason I feel pretty good today. It goes in spurts. No real reason I should feel good, no contact with W since the dreaded phone call that started this thread, but I am feeling alright today.

No more updates than that though, I'm afraid.

ALS

ALS ... stop. Right now. "That dreaded phone call" is over. Kaput. Ain't gettin' it back now. Let it go and move on. If your marriage doesn't survive it will not be because of that conversation.

(This has been a 2x4 delivered with love <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .)

ALS, glad to see at least your spirits are up. And really, the phone call didn't go that badly. Anyway, just checking in. Glad to see you're doing well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

MTD

Whippit, you rule. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Actually I think I have let that phone call go. Must be why I feel so good today. Took a couple days to get through it but I'm cool. Thanks for the slap too!

Thanks for checking in MTD. Sorry there wasn't more to say today, some days I feel no news is good news, though. I don't think I could take contact every day anyway, too much stress!

ALS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ALostSoul:
<strong>I continually marvel in the fact that my W is capable of smiling at herself in the mirror knowing what she's done. It's truly amazing.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your WS, like most others in romantic affairs, I believe, may look in the mirror, but does not see. She has painted over the parts too painful to see. It is very likely that she does not really know what she has done - or at least does not acknowledge it.

But this, in itself, is truly amazing.

The human mind is capable of amazing feats of deduction and equally amazing feats of delusion.

She knows not what she's doing.

Just my humble opinion.

WAT

<small>[ January 13, 2003, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

ALS-

I had another e-mail exchange with WS today. Asked her to help me help me so to speak. Told her I felt that there were some things I want/need to work on in IC and wanted her opinion.

I was under the impression that she felt that I was controlling, I was wrong. I also asked her to go to the MB website and told her how to go under LB's and mentioned 3 of those that I felt I violated as well. It made her VERY uncomfortable, she felt as though it was joint counseling and she was not ready to do that yet. She did it anyway as "a favor to me", not a lot of help but at least I have introduced her to the MB site. I feel good about that, maybe she will come back again.

After she sent her reply, I told her something for the first time since D-Day in October. I admitted to her that I was unhappy in the M at the end as well and that I didn't want to go back to our M without change from BOTH of us. I am focusing on me and making the changes I need to make. I also told her that I was beginning to be unsure of my feelings as well, that at one point she was my BF and soulmate and as of right now I didn't even consider her to be a friend due to the way she has treated me. I told her my feelings were beginning to wane as she continuously pushes me away and refuses to talk to me or see me.

I also told her that at this point the most that I could offer to her was casual dating between us (even though she has made zero effort to see me or speak to me). That I couldn't make any promises and I just want things to be fun and light between us like they were 12 years ago when we met. No discussion of our R, just going out and having fun and laughing together. At the end of the day, we each go our separate ways- literally.

Probably the biggest thing of all that I told her was how well I was doing alone. That I realize that although I still love her, I know that I am doing well by myself and feeling stronger by the day. I want her to be happy, I realize that I can let her go if she doesn't want to spend the rest of her life with me. Without question, the most honesty that I have given her since D-Day. Probably more honesty than I should have given her, but it was time that she knew that I was doing well- alone.

I counseled with Steve this morning, he didn't advise me to do this, it just kind of happened. I don't really think I LB'd at all, unless finally being completely honest is a sin. I didn't demand anything from her other than tell her that an e-mail relationship would not work forever for me.

What was her reaction? She said I have given her a lot to think about and that she will contact me at the end of January. She made it a point to tell me it would not be regarding a divorce, and it would be either by phone (Dec. 7 was last call) or in person (Nov. 2 was last face to face). She called it a "status update", I have no idea as to what she will say. Frankly, I really don't want to talk about our R, I just want to talk to her or see her. The bar is set so low with her right now that it won't be very difficult for her to jump over it. I have very small expectations. But regardless, our first contact in months that isn't an e-mail gives me a small reason for optimism.

There is no question in my mind that she will follow through and contact me, I will do everything in my power to not LB her or scare her away in any manner. I know the OM is still involved, I just have no idea as to how serious it is.

All for now, I only wanted to give you an update because of the parallels in our stories. I will learn from you my friend, I will make sure to do my best to control the LB's. I know it was difficult for you, I know it will be difficult for me as well.

I'll let you know how it goes......