When I ask what she wants, she says she doesn't know

This is the only way that she can answer because it is too vast. It is like looking at a room that has been destroyed by a hurricane and not knowing where to begin. So many things are evident but you don't know where to begin. Some people cannot get started, but once someone starts the ball rolling they can follow suit. That might be what it takes for her.

The reason I say that is because of this quote:

When I ask if she wants a divorce she says no; and when I follow up with "what DO you want?" she's back to "I don't know". The last question is reaching into the vast possibilities again.

When my children were little and I would instruct them to clean their room they would be overwhelmed with the sheer immenseness (is that a word?) of it. I could leave the room and return and they still be standing in the very same spot and never having made the first move. Because they did not know where the beginning was and they could certainly not see an end, they stood almost shellshocked. I would walk them through it. I could sit on the bed and point things out to them. Your shoes ...where do they go? Oh...in the closet ...and they would immediately address the shoe issue. The thing followed for the toys...how bout the doll? Oh, she goes on the shelf. I literally walked them through it. The thought process was stalled or else they were too young to implement it.

What about if the same holds true to your wife? What if she needs you to just ask point blank questions, that would require a simple yes or no without her needing to peer into a bottomless pit of things that come into the heading "what do you want"?

She responded to the one question and answered.

Make a mental list. Mentally compile the list to follow in some type of order than allows you to decipher what one to ask next.

Do you want to be with OM?
The next one is based on the answer of the first one.
Do you want to divorce/stay married?

You are going to have to zero in on the questions and present them to her in a calm manner instead of the somewhat vague and all encompassing of "what do you want".

Mind you, this is just my opinion and if you have already taken this route and it failed, I do beg pardon.

I am rooting for you.

Always,
committed

ah, yes. I like what committed is saying. Kinda goes along with:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I think Pepper got it right.

Space, you can do it as simple as saying " If you don't want a D, show me, otherwise, why should I believe you?"

SS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Absolutely. I will definitely do that</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Direct communication.

Committed's assessment of common WS mentality reminds me of my recent frustration (remember my update??) of my ex saying he is still "searching for himself". Seems that some people spend their whole life trying to find out "what they want" or "how to find happiness", instead of actually living... deciding to be happy... wanting what they have instead of trying to find what they want... (I apologize to whomever's signature line I'm mis-quoting that from!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

<small>[ January 30, 2003, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</small>

Committed:

EXCELLENT points! That is so true. And it's amazing how hard it is to find the strength to ask the right questions!

Not to make light of this very important topic, but this reminds me of an old Peanuts cartoon. One of my all-time favorites:

Snoopy is sitting on top of his doghouse with his typewriter (for you younguns with computers and Microsoft Office, this was a mechanical device that had a keyboard connected to arms with the letters on them that would impact a platen - which I will leave to the reader to look up - between which was a ribbon soaked with ink and a sheet of paper. This is how we wrote stuff in the old days when the ground was still warm to the touch)... ...anyway, he was typing a short story which went like this:
"Do you love me?" she asked.
"Of course!" he replied.
"Do you really love me?" she asked.
"Of course!" he replied.
"Do you really, really love me?" she asked.
"No" he replied.
"Do you really love me?" she asked.
"Of course!" he replied.
She asked no more.

-Qfwfq

Ahhhh! Now there's a novel idea! Committed, I bow before you, oh wise one! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> May your wise words illumine those not as evolved as yourself!

See, it's this left-brained mind of mine that doesn't let me "see" the simplicity of it all...it keeps saying, "no it MUST be more complicated! Think of something!", when in reality it is simplicity itself, this relationship "thing"...sometimes I wish I'd been born a woman and not a caveman! (By the way, I'm not entirely averse to believing that women, in spiritual terms, are far more evolved than men...as G-d himself has stated in "Conversations with God". She may have a point there...) (Boy, those words would NEVER have come out of my mouth (fingers) a year ago! LOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

Of course, this simple-minded caveman could use some ideas as to the "line of questioning"...

On a more serious note; I met with my attorney today, and the papers should be filed early next week. 'nuf said.

SC:

THIS will bring a positive change in this crazy sitch, I promise you!

All my best,
-Qfwfq

Q, my dear friend Q!
I wish I were as optimistic as you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It's really quite simple now; I have filed for divorce. In a week or two she will have the papers before her to sign, in Texas it's a 60-day process, and it will move inexorably forward unless we stop it. During this time other events related to it will occur, and she'll see (continue to see) the very best SC she's ever seen...

I am ready, willing and able to move on...

She will have many chances to show me she wishes otherwise and the chances to demonstrate it...

She will do with those chances what was meant for her to do with them...whatever that may be...

Yep.

And if you re-read your post, you'll see your optimisticker than I am! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-Qfwfq

"The very best SC she's ever seen" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> This calls for more Hawaiian shirts!

BTW .... check out the post by "puzzeled" ..... how does this compare to your W?? (in regards to BPD)

SC:

If you need, and you fit, I could loan you a couple of my Hawaiian shirts when I'm in town in March... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

spacecase,

I am glad that I could help a tiny bit with my suggestion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I bet that there are a lot of people on the forum that would know what questions to ask and in what order to gain some major insight.

Again, I am rooting for you.

committed

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pepperband:
<strong>"The very best SC she's ever seen" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> This calls for more Hawaiian shirts!

BTW .... check out the post by "puzzeled" ..... how does this compare to your W?? (in regards to BPD)</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Indeed! And I've added to the collection!
Here's one from New Year's eve with 2 of my SILs, my MIL and a Niece:
SC Hawaiian!

Pep;
Regarding Puzzled and BPD...I have no idea whether my W has had a series of affairs, or if she's had such casual sexual encounters. For all I know, she may have.
What I do know is that after her first affair, almost 15 years ago, one thing that stuck in my mind that she said then was that she ended up going to bed with the guy because it was what he wanted, and she did not want to lose him, although for her (she says) it was about conversation and feeling vaklued and cared for...
As for childhood issues, there could be many. Her dad died 2 months after she was born, and he mom was overwhelmed and sent her to be raised by her grandmother. She went back to her mom when she was 12, and her mom was never a very good mother...so certainly all kinds of possible issues with abandonment, lack of love, etc.
As for abuse; it's perfectly possible. In fact the CURRENT (or most recent) OM was her boyfriend when they were teenagers, and in one of the letters her laughingly writes to her asking if she remembers how he used to demand sex every day, even when she didn't want it...so G-d only knows how she coped back then and what other emotional/physical abuse she was subject to...
I'm telling you, it is not lightly that I've considered the distinct possibility of BPD. Not lightly at all.

Nice shirt dude!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Me like.

BPD is not easily treated .... meds don't work. Intensive long-term psychotherapy ... can help functioning.

Pep:

Hey, that's NOTHING. I've got a H shirt that my W made that makes SC's look DULL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (and I've got the Converse hightops to match... ...or clash, whatever the event requires!)

I love the shirts she's made for me. I probably can't really loan any of them to SC. I'd miss them too much! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

-Qfwfq

<small>[ January 30, 2003, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: Qfwfq ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I've got a H shirt that my W made that makes SC's look DULL! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is it? Battery operated neon? ROTFLOL!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My daughter says mine is "too loud", and believe me, for a 17-year-old to say that, considering what THEY wear... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

SC - attempted to sneak a peek at your shirt, but it seared my cornea. Need to amend my list of things to avoid looking directly at:

1) solar eclipse
2) reflection of my naked self in mirror
3) SC's latest addition to his closet

Doctor says I'll be able to make out fuzzy images in five or six days!

ROTFLOL!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Then be sure to get those "solar eclipse glasses" when you meet Q! Even his shoes are brighter than my shirt!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

...they are, actually! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Space,

Marathon reading to catch up here! I responded on the other website!

I love all these MBers! Even got insight how to work with YS on his bedroom!! Committed said it well; only I've stood with YS looking at his room feeling exactly the way he does!!!

I'm just concerned about your wife staying in the house. I know you want stability for your children; but is she capable of being financially responsible for it or will she expect you to bail her out again because of poor decisions like the trip to Europe?

Truthfully it may be worth it to you to keep your family in the house even with the potential of having to bail her out. You Mars types are very serious about providing for your families. It may be perfectly ok with her to keep the house! BLessings, CSue