Chris just to clarify we are already separated. She left in November and never came back. This letter is to stop the phone calls and lunch dates we have been having.

Here is take 2
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Dear WIFE,

You are the most amazing and precious woman I have ever met. The sight of your smile and the sound of your laugh can brighten my spirit in a way that no other can. You have bewitched me. You have taken my heart. I love you, my gift, my treasure from God.

I realize that in the past I have not been the husband I should have been. I didn’t provide you with the support you required. My inability to show proper affection, to show you how much I admired you and to converse with you properly have helped lead to our current situation. For that I apologize and I have been trying to learn better myself in these areas.

Your continued relationships with OM and others continually cause me pain that I never thought possible. In order to preserve any chance that we have for the future I have to ask that until you are ready to commit to rebuilding or relationship and that you no longer contact me. Please understand that I don’t want to hurt you in this but I truly believe that this is the only way in which I will be able to keep my love for you.

When you are willing to completely separate from OM and take steps necessary to work through our problems, then you can pass a message through FRIEND and we can discuss reconciliation.

It is hard to believe that we started this adventure five years ago. These days I hold a hope for the future that perhaps I didn’t have before. I believe that God has a call on our lives that he has an amazing plan for our future.

I believe that we can take something that appears to be broken and rebuild it on a solid foundation that will stand the tests of time. I love you and there is nothing that I want more than to spend the rest of my life with you.

I love you and I pray that we will spend the rest of our days in each others arms were we belong

All my Love

PB
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am struggling with this because I don't really know what to say. I guess the phone call the other day was a real blow because I had hoped that if she was done with OM#1 that she might be interested in me again as I have been doing as good a Plan A as I could under the circumstances. But instead of even considering me she went straight to the kid.

I just see the damage she is doing to herself and I start to worry about at what point it becomes irreversible for her where there is simple no possibility that she will ever go back to being the woman I once knew.

arrgh this is tough

PB

Much better. It says what it needs to say.

that she will ever go back to being the woman I once knew.
But the woman you once knew had affairs. You don’t want that, do you?

One thing that some people tend to not think about. The relationship you had was broken. It didn’t work for reasons. You are now learning how to do it right.

It may not be possible to get back together. MB does not guarantee you will. However, MB does give your relationship the best chance for that to happen. Also, if it does not happen, then MB principles allow you to get it over with much less trauma. Also, they (MB principles) help you to do it right in the future. You can use these principles in most, if not all, relationships.

Like Chris said,
It may not work, but this has a better chance then anything else I know of.

Remember that part of this is about you. Did you do all you could. Are your improvements real? Have you learned enough and changed enough to be the husband you ought to be if you were to get back together?

If you can say yes to these things, you are ready for plan B.

if you are too far gone to continue A but haven't made enough improvements in you, continue to improve. Doing the right thing yourself is always best, no matter what she does.

I want to see the side of you that says " I am a good man, I am a desireable man, and if she doesn't want me, someone else will." I want her to see that when she sees you, and I want it to be real. That's what you need to be working on.

SS

<small>[ April 04, 2003, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

I realize that I have not responded to both of your great comments. I have been really trying to take stock of where I am at and truly decide if plan B is really where I want to go.

Chris,

I know that things were wrong and I know that I don’t want the same woman back as before. What I am worried about is that she will have done so much damage to herself and her self-esteem that she won’t ever be able to try and recommit. The path I see her on is one that will lead to self-destruction if she doesn’t get off it. The people that she is hanging out with are dragging her down into their world and that is not a good place. She has essentially turned into a loser who hangs out with losers (21 single mom with no education and her 19 year old brother who doesn’t have a job and is in trouble with the law). I know that this is shallow but she is so much more than that. She is a bright creative gorgeous woman who is well educated and capable of doing anything she puts her mind to. That is what I what I mean when I say that she might not come back because all I see right now is a party girl who only thinks about what the next few minutes of fun will bring and not the future.

Sorry that was ranting. I just had to let it out and I know here is a safe place (except for the occasional 2X4)

PB

SS your response is coming.

<small>[ April 09, 2003, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: Polar Boy ]</small>

SS,

I do think that I have made real changes. I have taken a good look at what was wrong in my life and our marriage and I have taken steps to address that. Unfortunately some of the changes that I have made to improve me are exactly what is driving her away. She wants nothing to do with God or anything of that nature. My faith is an inseparable part of me and I won’t compromise it again..

She even sees this, in fact she said “that is one of the reasons we will never get back together because you need someone of faith and I can’t be that, and I never was”

Do I think that I have made improvements that would make anyone lucky to be with me?

(How do I write this without sounding egotistical? Oh well you asked for it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

I am attractive, athletic, smart, well educated, have a great singing voice, I have a good job and I am loyal and committed. I have learned a lot about communication, about how to handle money, about respect and I think I have grasped the concept of “non-sexual affection” (well at least as well as any guy can). I am 100% committed to God and want to follow him in all I do. I have compassion for those in need and try to help others where I can. I am friendly, funny, kind and gentle.

Does that make me a catch? I think yes but at this point I don’t want to be caught by “anyone” I want to be caught by her. And what frustrates me is that she acknowledges that I am all these things but she still wants nothing to do with me (romantically) and our future together.

PB

Well it has almost been a week so I figure a bumpisnt too out of line

PB

Not much time right now, but back tonight or tomorrow.

Gee Whiz, I'm not paying very good attention lately. Thanks for the bump.

SS

Hi PB,
I'm sorry to have been absent for so long. I hope you are doing better emotionally.
You already know that things may - or may not work with your W, however the things she is saying are the things that all WS's say, so you don't want to begin D proceedings based on what she says. You should base what you do on your ability to continue. If your LB is close to empty or if a good plan A for 3 to 6 months produces no results, go to plan B. That is, if what you have been doing doesn't work, try something else. Only warning here is that if it doesn't work then all that is left is D.

Unfortunately some of the changes that I have made to improve me are exactly what is driving her away. She wants nothing to do with God or anything of that nature. My faith is an inseparable part of me and I won&#8217;t compromise it again..

She even sees this, in fact she said &#8220;that is one of the reasons we will never get back together because you need someone of faith and I can&#8217;t be that, and I never was&#8221;
I believe you said at one time she was going to church and she did have faith???

I believe in most cases this would be considered FOG talk. You would know best if it is true.
However, if it comes to that, you have probably read this before, and it gives both sorrow, and hope. Matt 10:34-39

(How do I write this without sounding egotistical? Oh well you asked for it )
You were asked, thanks for answering as well as you could.

I am attractive, athletic, smart, well educated, have a great singing voice, I have a good job and I am loyal and committed. I have learned a lot about communication, about how to handle money, about respect and I think I have grasped the concept of &#8220;non-sexual affection&#8221; (well at least as well as any guy can). I am 100% committed to God and want to follow him in all I do. I have compassion for those in need and try to help others where I can. I am friendly, funny, kind and gentle.

If I were a singal gal, I would ask you out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Since I am a guy, I'll just say that's what I wanted to know. I have been working on my own problems for over a year, and I have many good points, but I still need work. I hope you know where you still need work and continue to work on it. Shoot, I have been working on mine for 47 years, and I still need work. That one year has been with MB materials, and it really has helped.

Does that make me a catch? I think yes but at this point I don&#8217;t want to be caught by &#8220;anyone&#8221; I want to be caught by her. And what frustrates me is that she acknowledges that I am all these things but she still wants nothing to do with me (romantically) and our future together.
You have been here enough to understand that we never know until its over, and even then sometimes people get back together.

If you have done plan A long enough for her to see the new you, go to plan B. As said before, you have to be ready to move on if it doesn't work, so think about that. Remember that not every one can be saved. (in the context of staying in a marriage.) Even if you have love left in your bank and have done a good plan A, if it's not working, you need to go to B.

In the short term, can you give up the LB's when you talk to her on the phone? Much better to say you can't handle it and hang up than to argue. Say something like: "I love you too much to hear these kind of things, I am sorry but I can't do this any more today." then hang up.

You need to avoid LB's your self, but you don' have to stand and take hers with no action.

Any more news since that last horrible conversation?

PB,
I really hope this works, but I bet you will be OK no matter what happens.

I'm sorry for the bad parts, hope you are doing better right now.

SS

<small>[ April 16, 2003, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hope you haven't had any more of those lousy phone calls.

See you next week.

Ss

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm sorry to have been absent for so long. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No problem I only get to post once or twice a week anyway so that is okay.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I hope you are doing better emotionally.

You already know that things may - or may not work with your W, however the things she is saying are the things that all WS's say, so you don't want to begin D proceedings based on what she says. You should base what you do on your ability to continue. If your LB is close to empty or if a good plan A for 3 to 6 months produces no results, go to plan B. That is, if what you have been doing doesn't work, try something else. Only warning here is that if it doesn't work then all that is left is D. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don’t know if my LB is close to empty. I don’t answer the phone when she calls (I have caller ID) I call her back when I am ready. I hope that I wont run into her on the street. I switched from playing co-ed softball to men’s league so I didn’t have to play on the same night as her. I don’t like the person she has become and I like her new “friends” even less. I have been in Plan A for 4 months (she left 5 months ago and I spent a month of that in the UK with no contact) and it feels like it is getting nowhere. She calls me once a week usually on Sunday night to talk for a half hour or so but that is all the contact we have.

I am just tired of this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She even sees this, in fact she said “that is one of the reasons we will never get back together because you need someone of faith and I can’t be that, and I never was”
I believe you said at one time she was going to church and she did have faith???
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes we went to church but she says that she never believed like I did and only went because it was important to me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I believe in most cases this would be considered FOG talk. You would know best if it is true. However, if it comes to that, you have probably read this before, and it gives both sorrow, and hope. Matt 10:34-39
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks those are words I will think on in the coming days.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> (How do I write this without sounding egotistical? Oh well you asked for it )
You were asked, thanks for answering as well as you could.

If I were a singal gal, I would ask you out. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks I think. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> It is funny but in the last couple of weeks I have had situations that felt like I was being hit on or flirted with (not counting you) and frankly it felt good. Now neither of these situations would ever work into anything (one too young one too old plus I am still married) but it did feel good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You have been here enough to understand that we never know until its over, and even then sometimes people get back together. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know I just wonder if I will want that. I guess if God transforms her into his woman and she is ready to live a life serving him then I would be interested but unless that happens then there is no hope and what I have to figure out is how long I hold on to that hope.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you have done plan A long enough for her to see the new you, go to plan B. As said before, you have to be ready to move on if it doesn't work, so think about that. Remember that not every one can be saved. (in the context of staying in a marriage.) Even if you have love left in your bank and have done a good plan A, if it's not working, you need to go to B.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know I am still thinking of what I want to do. This is hard

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> In the short term, can you give up the LB's when you talk to her on the phone? Much better to say you can't handle it and hang up than to argue. Say something like: "I love you too much to hear these kind of things, I am sorry but I can't do this any more today." then hang up.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Those are good phrases I will remember them. Tonight I just avoided her call and I think I probably will tomorrow. Maybe I will talk to her on Wednesday if I am up to it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Any more news since that last horrible conversation?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well she went to another town (a 24 hr drive away) for the long weekend with her new best friend her brother (OM#2) and a buddy from work. Apparently she won $3000 at the casino and had a good time (I know this cause a mutual friend of ours ran into her in the other town). She called me tonight once she got back in but I didn’t answer the phone and she left a message (I just cant handle hearing about how great her weekend was right now). It is funny but she seems to have everything going her way right now. She has won over $4500 at casinos in the last 5 months as well as got a new car and tonnes of money spent on her. The enemy is working hard to keep her. It is so frustrating.

She is talking about moving in with OM#2 sister and says that her and OM#1 are talking again (bet he doesn’t know about OM#2) and I am sitting at home alone with the cat.

Well thanks for the response and support. I will check back tomorrow to see if you have answered but if not, no big deal

Your brother

If you really don't want to have contact with her, why don't you also change your telephone number?

Hi PB,
Since plan A did not work, I recommend plan B. If she continues with OM#2 or 3 or so on, you don't want her anyway. I believe it's time for you to go on and see if plan B will help things. If not, you know where it is going anyway and it is getting to be time.

Are you still doing OK after the additional news?

SS

Coffee,

Thanks for the post. the reason that I am not getting a new number is that I am not in Plan B yet. also I have a roommate and it would prove difficult. Call display is good enough and after Plan B is implemented I will probably get call blocking.

SS

Just a quick update.

I spoke to her today. She told me that she is back with OM#1 in fact he went with her on her weekend trip.

She asked me not to talk to her family anymore as her Grandma sent her a "nasty" email. (actually it wasnt that nasty the parts she read me said things like ..."you are wasting a valuable time in your life"..."your parents used to be so proud of you"..."you are making a fool of yourself" she also said that my wife should not bring a guest to her cousins wedding if she doesn't bring me)

Anyway I told my wife that her family was my family and that I would continue to treat them that way. I also told her that I have never bad mouthed to her family or anyone else.

(For the record the only contact I have had with her family in the last 6 months was sending them a happy christmas cards & email, calling her dad to thank him for the Christmas gift they bought me & sending her Grandpa a 2 line happy 80th birthday email)

As for plan B I plan on getting some nice paper to write it on this weekend. As for when I give it to her I am thinking May 13th as that is the date I proposed to her 3 years ago.

Oh and my daily bread for yesterday was Pslam 37 1-11 which really came at a good time. I will go into that more later.

Thanks for the responses

PB

<small>[ April 23, 2003, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Polar Boy ]</small>

Before you go to plan B - are you sure you did your best possible plan A? what changes did you do in yourself? from your WW's perspective, are you a happy confident attractive husband to come back to?

N

I would stay away from dates that were special. (may 13) If this thing is able to work, you don't want the water mudied up to badly by making bad memories on top of good.

I like your reference, especially verse 11. We just have to trust that if we do as we ought to do, we will be taken care of. It is hard but - well, it is true.

Just worry about doing what you ought to do.

SS

Hope BP is reasonably well today.

SS

yeah "Boy Polar" is okay <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . there haven't been any real developments so I haven't posted. I have been working on the letter a bit, but have decided to wait until my pastor gets back from his vacation to let him read it before I give it to my wife

PB

PS what do you think I should do about the whole no contact with the family thing?

<small>[ April 30, 2003, 10:25 AM: Message edited by: Polar Boy ]</small>

I can't see any reason not to have contact. You like them, they like you? Stay close.

Plan A doesn't mean you do everything they want, it means you meet needs as you can. Never take away the natural consequences of their actions. If it bothers her, that is a result of what she has done, not anything you have done. Don't remove the heat.

SS

Well it has been two weeks since I last talked to my wife and today she leaves a message on my voice mail wondering if I want to do lunch with her. She has an appointment at the building across from my work at 1:00. It was weird her calling out of the blue like that but I think I will go. If anything it is one last time together before plan B a last chance so to speak to show her the new me. I just pray that God will speak to her heart and that I will not rise to any bait she throws my way.

I’ll post later and let you know how it goes

PB

Update, I called her back but she wasn't at her office. I left a message for her to call back but it is now 11:40 and she hasn't called so I am going to go do something else. Oh well

Update again, she called at 11:53 and like the wimp I am I gave in and said yes. If you read this in the next hour say a prayer for me.

<small>[ May 06, 2003, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Polar Boy ]</small>

Update again, she called at 11:53 and like the wimp I am I gave in and said yes.

Until you give her the plan B letter, you are still in plan A and it is consistant with your goals to meet her and try to meet needs for conversation etc. Don't feel bad about that, look for chances.

If you read this in the next hour say a prayer for me.

And for her.

I know you don't dare get your hopes up, but we always do, don't we.

SS