My plan is to talk to him somehow as early as possible tomorrow to see what he has to say. Also I definitely plan to be firm about not tolerating another one of these weekends. Its out in the open now that he is spending them with her, rubbing in my face. Also, the discourtesy of not calling. You are rignt, my son has said "You don't deserve to be treated like this." He is beginning to be worried about me. I hate that this burden is being put on him. I try to convince him that I am going to be alright but you guys already know about the weight loss. I've GOT to make changes in order to maintain my health.

One thing is for sure. My WS certainly is avoiding me. I do believe that there is some script that she uses to get to him. Everytime I catch a glance of her she looks frantic and desperate. I saw her on Saturday speeding down the road probably to meet him. Who knows what the nature of their relationship is.

I am so confused about what is going on with my H. Like I've said before he has sounded so sincere this week. I hope I will understand better if I can look him in the face. He likes to talk to me about important issues over the phone though so I can't read him as well I guess.

Pepperband:
I thought your post was interesting regarding how to choose between strategies. My WS does verge on immaturity and being emotionally and verbally abusive. Most of my years of marriage ,and I think he would agree, were great. The past 4 to 5 years have been difficult with raising my older son who has a lot of his own problems, me getting my priorities out of whack and my H going through a midlife crisis and major conflict with his own parents/siblings.He isn't speaking to them. Lots of wounds in our family!!! I am realizing that my H is highly jealous of my children and missed the way I used to "baby" and take care of him before they were here. His mother is not and was not nurturing to him. He's even said recently he didn't even want to have kids but had them for me. He has not been close to them at all over the past few years. I compensated for his lack of relationship with them by being overly indulgent. However, I've tried to make him see that we will have an empty nest soon but he has already reconnected elsewhere to a woman with no children to compete with; she doesn't have custody of her child. Sorry about the long story. Maybe there is too much bitterness for the standard PLAN A to work in our case. I just don't know.

I will try to talk to Steve tomorrow but I doubt it will be possible. They just finished a MB weekend. I will schedule an appt. for ASAP.

Espoir:
I know I should not assume about the apartment. Their mode of operation is so different this weekend. She is staying two nights, coming back and forth from her house all weekend which would be weird for a motel rendevous. Honestly, her house is not nice enough for my H. He would move into a place equal to or better than our house. If he moves to an apartment, it will be a brand new one. That is his standard of living. Remember the shiny, new condo he was going to get in early January.

Mimi,
I'm a bit worried that you think your h has gotten an apartment. If I were you I would look closely at all your bank/savings and retirement accounts to see if he is taking money from them. Also call your credit card and bank card (atm) 1-800 number to see if they were charges on it last week or this weekend. If so they would be able to tell you the name of the place he was at. Also if he made atm withdrawals you can ask the address of the machine he used to find his whereabouts.

If you believe he wouldn't move in with her because it is not good enough it may be a wise thing to hire a detective to see if he did rent an apartment. Heck you can probably do this by calling the different apartment/condo complexes and asking if he is a tentant.

I'm here for you whatever you decide to do!

Hey All:

I called my PI and he said he will be able to tell me if he had power turned on in an apt. this morning. Will keep you posted.

I was able to check the ATM and there was only minimal money withdrawn locally and no purchases on the debit card. If he has a credit card, its a secret one, doesn't like credit cards. That's why I think he has a place. He needs more money for motel and food.

Gosh Mimi I am thinking of you. I know how hard this time is for you. I think you are handling things really well. You've done a good Plan A thus far.

Your H now has to struggle with his own issues. Just know that it can take time for this to happen. He has to make a choice and at first he may make the wrong one. You can't tell how it will work out in the end. But, focusing on yourself can help you no matter which way the story ends.

Good luck and I am thinking of you.

Espoir:

Thanks for being there! I'm meeting with him at 12 Noon, about an hour from now. I'm thinking of scenarios, what he might say, what I'm going to say. I can't talk to Steve until tomorrow. I'm going to be firm, set my boundaries but not provide much info. Also I have an appt. with a lawyer on Wednesday. I'm feeling stronger. I think he's crossed an important line with me and probably does need to leave before I begin to hate him.

Just found out that he's had the utilities on at that apt. he supposedly did not rent since Jan. 10. Wonder why he has been living at home.

Mimi, very strange and confusing I'm sure.
Could it be he has only a few days left on the apt? Or perhaps they prorated it from the first?
I'm thinking if the rent started on the 10th or so, he is either going to move in there, or is taking his stuff out to give it up?
This really is time for a confrontation and some truth from him.
If Ow just moved into the house you mentioned, why if they were planning on living together?
Maybe I've misread something, but I thought earlier you said she'd just moved to that house.
If it's not good enough for him, why?
Lot of things to think about here and sort out. But I'm glad you have an appt with a lawyer. It's time to get ducks in a row. God bless and you're in prayers. You must watch your health for sure.
LouLou

I'm here waiting for our meeting. I hope he shows up.

I went to the apartment. There's a mat at the door so something is going on there. I've been going by there and not seeing his car. I can't understand where he hides it.

I'm not sure when the OW moved into her house which she probably leases. From PI investigation , she used to have utilities at a different address which was an apartment. He was not planning on moving in with her as far as I know.

His new rented place is a brand new condo!!!

Mimi, a new condo is expensive. Time to get to that Atty fast and get some legal advice on assets.
You need protection now! Assets can be frozen also until division is made. Get going now.
God bless, LouLou

mimi- I was gone for the weekend, but I think I've caught up with your events now.

You've gotten good advice throughout including a glimpse at differing views on Plan A/B.

My take at the moment: consult with your attorney on how to protect your assets and gain control of your home and custody of the boys - including the drafting of a separation document.

Consult with Steve ASAP and inquire about the wisdom of going to Plan B as soon as your H's separation is confirmed.

I believe you should NOT ask your H to leave or give the appearance of kicking him out at this point - if you even get the chance. The reason I say this is that it appears he's already decided to do this - he doesn't need an excuse any longer that you demanded it. Good. You can go forward guilt free on this aspect.

Do not for a moment think that this separation is permanent. It may be EXACTLY what is needed for your H to get a dose of reality. This is where Plan B comes in. By his actions, if not his words, he has decided to separate from you. You cannot change his mind. By leaving him alone for just a couple of days - no unnecessary contact from you other than any legal interaction based on the advice from your attorney - you let him revel in his "victory." Any contact is pristine Plan A on your part. Then, with Steve's approval and after our review, you send your Plan B letter which says, in effect, it was your decision to separate, it's now my decision to STAY separated. This cuts him loose and sends him adrift. You impose no contact. You are in control. Prior to this he may have thought you were a contingency - someplace he could seek refuge in as he wished, even if only temporarily. But now, in Plan B he's totally dependent on OW and himself and you're shielded from his disrespectful behavior. It's hard to predict how he'll react, but one thing is virtually certain - you will be relieved and it'll all be in OW's hands. My money is on "chaos in the condo."

OK?

WAT

It's strange and a bit weird. How is he paying for the apartment without you seeing the checks? Where is he getting the furniture from? Can he afford the apartment as well as paying for your house?

Hope your meeting goes well. good strategy to play your cards close to the vest.

Good for you setting up the appointment with the lawyer, standing up for yourself.

and ditto to everything that WAT has said above.

You know Mimi- the good part of Plan A is that you know you TRIED. Your WH's blame now is powerless to make you feel guilty. His selfishness is exposed.

Thinking of you and my prayers are with you.

<small>[ February 03, 2003, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: espoir ]</small>

Hi MB friends:
I thought the meeting went well. We talked for 1.5 hours. We sat face to face at our kitchen table. I may have goofed because I didn't get chance to read your suggestions.

He acknowledged a plan to separate. He stated that he has had the condo since January. He has to close on it, to buy it, by the end of March or he will lose his downpayment. I would have to buy it with him and if he doesn't stay there, "We can use it as rental property", he says. He alluded to thinking of the separation as temporary, for 3 months. He does not indicate a desire for a divorce. Still just wants to get away "to find himself". Really it doesn't make any sense.

I did a combination of TOUGH LOVE and PLAN A. This went over well in my opinion. I told him that I would never leave him but if he chooses to leave me I can't stop him. I told him that I would be working on bettering myself during the separation. I told him he can come back when he's absolutely finished with the OW.

I expressed worry about him being over there by himself. He kept saying "I don't feel good about this, leaving my family". However, it seems like he feels like it is something that he has to do. He is openly choosing to not work on our relationship now. I asked how is that going to help our marriage. He feels that it will rid him of his animosity.

He seemed to respect me for the first time since D-Day. He was able to hear that I don't deserve to be treated like this. Seemed to believe that I will be working on being a better person. Seemed to get to him that I may be doing new things with my life that don't include him: hiking, photography. He seemed more attracted to me than when I was in the begging mode. I was conveying self-confidence. In fact, I really do feel better.I also was able to make the point that I wanted him to come back because he really wanted to be with me.

Also he seemed to need to feel free, not trapped by me. This fits with Dobson principles.

He is the one who asked for no contact with me. I said that's your choice. I asked him about a date night/coming over to the condo. He said NO. I was just trying to check his thinking on this. I said so "she gets to come over and I don't"; he insisted that she won't be coming over.

I told him that I hope you will take this time to better yourself as well. He was able to tolerate me saying that I hope you don't take this as free time with OW or time to play house. He claims that he will not be seeing her and she won't be coming over. He's definitely lying about that but I didn't call him on it.

He said he had hoped that I would be angry in order to justify leaving to himself. He even acknowledged trying to provoke me by staying gone all those days without calling.

He agreed to continue the direct deposit, for me to pay the bills and to send him an allowance check of only $1500. He insisted that this is all that he needs. He also agreed to put in an alarm system today for me. I asked for the garage door opener. We did not finalize that because he was saying that he wants to keep it (that's the way he gets in the house) but call me before he comes over.

He asked me if we can continue to work out at the gym at the same time. Did I want him to come at a different time than I do? I didn't really know how to answer that.

I guess I like it that he was able to talk about the A for the first time. Our conversation focused more on that than how I was to blame. He was able to hear that I understood my part in all of this.

What do you guys think about this meeting and outcome?

Why am I feeling somewhat relieved rather than sad? What should I have done differently? What do I do now?

I'm not feeling sad for some reason. I think he is planning on coming back after the three months or sooner. We'll see.

When we left, he clearly wanted to reach out and hug me but he didn't. He acknowledged being afraid to show me his sadness and vulnerability.

In answer to some of your other questions, he fessed up to saving money in another account FOR US. He used that money for a downpayment on the condo. He is living rent-free until the end of March when he has to buy it or lose his downpayment. I told him that I certainly wouldn't agree to buying it if he's going to be entertaining other women there. I'm not helping with a bachelor pad. Yes, we can afford our house and the condo.

I told him that I will be sending him a letter to review the comments that I made during the meeting because he probably wouldn't remember IMPORTANT comments that were made. Maybe I can indicate PLAN B in that letter if recommended by Steve. However, he was did have a pad and was taking notes.

He asked me about my antidepressants. What do they do for me? I explained how they lift my mood. He explained, as he must have to Steve,he that the A was a cure for depression. He has even felt suicidal about a year ago. I was able to say: so she's like a drug?

I also forgot to include that he heard how my mistakes as a wife are not comparable to infidelity. I made it clear that "I have never touched another man in 30 years". His eyes got big as saucers. I told him that D-Day was the worst day of my life. I couldn't believe that he was listening after weeks of being deaf to me. Maybe he was so happy to get freed up to play house in his new life.

Good job, mimi. He's clearly lying about not intending to see OW. Guaranteed, she'll be moving into the condo.

Proceed with your good Plan A in parallel with seeing your attorney and talking with Steve. I suggest you get clear financial separation in writing and DO NOT participate with buying the condo. Stupid idea. But coming from an alien abductee, what do you expect? Also, nail down the child support and alimony as normal in your local government. Try for visitation only with the boys and then only in your home.

Go along with his suggestions for interaction, e.g., meeting at the gym, until Plan B. Then all of this is off limits.

He is fanatizing about how "easy" the separation is going to be. Your Plan A has set him up to believe you'll tolerate anything he wants. But your boundary will be clearly established when you deny participation with the buying scheme.

WAT

WAT:

Why the child support/alimony proceedings? He's giving me 90% of his earnings like a stupid fool but I guess he could stop that at anytime. However, then his bills don't get paid and he gets a bad credit rating. All the cars are in his name only, for example.

Mimi .... you done good, girl! Just the fact that you kept your cool .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> no LB's .... simply stating the facts and what you have learned, and what your intentions are.

The OW is going to be in the condo. Don't co-sign anything.

This smells like mid-life crisis from one end to the other.

In what ways are you going to treat yourself like a queen this week? Can you re-decorate your bed a little bit? Can you buy new undergarments? Can you go to a class, or a play, or, in some way reach outside yourself and beyond your usual routine?

When you DO go to the gym (at the usual time) .... wear a new racy exercise outfit. Change the expected to the unexpected. Stretch yourself physically, emotionally and spiritually.

Don't be available all the time. Create some mystery and an aura of self-love and intrigue.

Mimi,
You know I have been reading your posts and have seen all the good advice, so felt it was not necessary of me to jump in. But I will stress here again as I have posted to you before, you have to take care of Mimi and family. He is in full blown mode. He will have OW there, you can count on it. But if you have never wanted to listen to anything ....please listen to the suggestions of not helping him buy condo!!!!

You did a fantastic job in your conversation and showed so much strength. He was going to do this from the beginning the great thing that you accomplished was that you did everything right and nothing negative to play into him justifying his actions. He simply can not justify them, but now it's going to be self-preservation for you and son. He is sneaky Mimi, even you know that, and don't think for one minute until his head is out of the clouds he won't think about himself and the OW first.

I know I have nothing else to offer you as everything has been said by the other posters quite nicely on all your different threads. Just know I send you my best and hope for your strength and level mental balance to remain constant and durable through this process. He will wake up, so in the mean time it has to be about Mimi, Mimi, Mimi, Mimi....and son.

He wants stuff from the house. I am getting more and more angry about the idea of her being around any of my things. I'll just give him stuff that I will never want again.

I told him that I better not catch her there. He knows I'll be watching. Is he going to sneak her in? It will be another D-Day.

I told him I will not help him buy the condo if he is planning to live there. He said to himself "I guess I lost that money" (the downpayment). Maybe he thinks that he will talk me into it. Moreso, it seems that he is planning on living there for only 3 months. It's like going out to play.

I forgot to tell you guys that he really was tearful throughout our talk. However, we know how he can change and become that angry, vindictive person within a heartbeat.

It's also beginning to bug me that he was planning this from the beginning. I don't know why he did not go ahead and move in. Afraid of a confrontation? Of course, he didn't have any furniture and he had to figure out a way to tell me about it. Thus, the disappearing acts, trying to get me to blow up and kick him out.

I think he's really confused about me remaining calm. Don't you???? I feel like I'm in control of the situation and I also feel freer. I will focus on myself now. Who knows what the future holds?

I also told him how I planned to reconnect with my friends and my church. He seemed so surprised like he is going to keep me sitting home knitting while he is gone.

You see, it was a long conversation. I'm going to need to journal it so I can remember what went on.

"He knows I'll be watching."

Be too busy to watch him. Give HIM reasons to watch YOU. Take a fun trip. Stop focusing on him. It will only hurt.

mimi,
like i told you before ,money is his weakness.it is definately showing now.now you can throw some pressure on the OW.tell him you know she will be there so let her pay for it.hold your ground.do not pay!put their A in finanial problems.it will create LB's.and sure end in a hurry.if thats what you want.he is going to be nice.he needs you right now.but he is needing you for the wrong reasons.if you want to let him go to cool off then fine.dont pay for it.you've paid enough aleady.
i know what you mean about not being sad now.the day my wife and i decided to go our separate ways i felt a huge relief.to be honest i'm not even sure i was sad at all.i knew i had done my best.so have you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>I told him that I better not catch her there.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, No, No!!!

mimi - this is controlling. Don't ever say stuff like this.

Believe me, the very best thing to happen is for them to shack up for awhile so this thing can crash and burn. I'm not saying you should encourage it, but don't try to stop it. You can't stop it and when you try, you paint yourself as a controller.

Regarding child support and alimony. Do not turn any offers down and get it inserted into a legally binding obligation. This is all about consequences. Play the role, pay the toll. If he offers, take it. This is one of the rare areas where BSs can take advantage of the fog. Does this have the chance of being an LB later? Yes. But it also has a chance of being a cold bucket of water on the fantasy. I recommend you take the chance on the latter.

WAT