Ok WAT!!!
To be honest, I didn't say it quite that bluntly regarding her presence at the condo. He didn't even catch it. However, I had to say something when he looked me straight in the face and said she would not be coming over there. I wanted to let him know that I did not believe him.

Really I focused on saying over and over again out loud to him "I can't control what you do". I was saying it as much for myself as for him. I also stressed that when and if he comes back to me I want him to do it because he wants me. I stressed how I know I have many wonderful qualities that are valuable, etc. I was demanding RESPECT which is part of MY PLAN.

What is keeping him from moving out? He was supposed to get some stuff today. Most of his belongings are still here.

<small>[ February 03, 2003, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>What is keeping him from moving out?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">His conscience.

He hasn't a clue as to what he really wants. Pull up a chair and watch the wonders of the human mind. With the right mindset, mimi, you're in for a show. Please hold your applause. Sit back, try not to take this personally, and be our reporter. The difficult part for you will be trying to decide whether to laugh or cry. Please do not interfere. Doing so could ruin the lesson for him - and for you. This may not be a one act performance. But it WILL be a performance, a spectacle to watch. Understand?

WAT

WAT---

I understand. I will stay cool and sit back and watch. I will be sure to keep you guys posted !!!!

I still have not told you all of the things he said. I keep remembering different things. Regarding his conscience, I forgot to tell you about the comment: (My name), I want you to know that I'm still a Christian". Me: Aren't you worried then about your salvation...if something happens to you now? Him: I don't see it that way anymore. Isn't that talking out of both sides of your mouth? Me: You know what one of the Ten Commandments is, don't know. Him: Yes, I know them by heart. Then he gets up to go to the bathroom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> End of this part of the conversation.

Mimi, you definitely need legal binding support. In writing! Because as long as he controls the money, he will take what he wants when he wants.
You said all cars are in his name? How come? Then I hope your state recognizes they are still half yours? Community property?
Listen, I'm a real estate broker in Ca. In order for him to buy any real property without your signature, you would have ato sign a waver or quit claim deed giving him sole ownership!
He can't just buy in his name, at least not here as long as he is married. Not without you signing it can be his sole and separate property.
Here, he would have to lie and they do run title searches and would find you both on your home.
Also, doesn't matter in some states whether you're on the title or not, you are still liable and your credit is effected!
You need some fast legal advice and with someone who knows your state laws in everyway!
Maybe you're state is different, but here, married is liable for it all no matter who buys it! And entitled to half in divorce regardless unless you have agreed it's his sole and separate property.
How did he even make an offer and put a down payment without you? The brokers usually ask if married.
Somethine is definitely not right here, but then I'm going by our laws.
Thank God I'm a Ca. wife. LOL Protected up the ying yang!
Just be sure you know every aspect of what is going on. By the way, if you were on title, you could throw her [censored] out as an intruder. LOL
If I found her there, I'd call the police and make her leave, even if he had to go with her!
God bless, LouLou

P.S. ask where the escrow is being done. YOu might want to check if she's going on title with him! People can buy with other partners, but you still would have to sign off to protect their title. Otherwise, some states you can walk in and claim part ownership as his wife!
Better check this out with brokers and escrow.
LouLou

LadyLou:

I do need your help in understanding about this condo.

What do you think about this:
He says that he is now leasing the condo with the option to buy. He has given a downpayment. They know he is married. I confirmed this myself with the condo firm; maybe I blabbed on him or it must have shown up on some check that they did. If he does not close by the end of March, he says that he will lose the downpayment. Also, he says he cannot close unless I sign as a co-owner since we are still married. He states that he can purchase without me signing if he has a separation agreement. However, since my state is a community property state like yours the property will still be considered half mine. I bet he was hoping that he would get a separation agreement, buy the condo and I would not find out about it. However, I did because of my PI and the power company called this house to state that the power was being turned on at that address. Today he was trying to get me to sign (in March) by saying that we could use it as rental property and he would have to live somewhere else if we remain separated. He does not want to lose his downpayment. He got into this deal impulsively right after D-Day and a lot of things have changed since then, I think!

I made it clear today that I would not be party to buying a place that there would be any chance for her to stay in. In fact, I'm even having problems with my WS having any furniture or other household articles of mine that she might touch or use. He might need to go buy all new things for his "pad".

About the cars, I was mentioning that he could be made responsible for these bills. They are in his name because he always bought the cars, knew the car dealers, took care of all of that type of business. Legally, in my state, they are half mine.

I'm seeing one of the best attorneys in town on Wednesday. My WS does not know about the appt. We'll see what the attorney says.

My WS is really a tightwad and not a big money-spender. That's why he wants a condo, an investment, rather than a rental apartment. Even now, he is only getting $100 a week out of the ATM for his weekend romps with her. They must be staying at cheap motels. I caught them at THE SLEEP INN which is $40/night. However, with his mind being controlled by her and I'm afraid she might be a golddigger (she was the receptionist for our accountant), I certainly will protect myself legally.

If he doesn't change from what he said today though, I can't complain. He is asking for only 10% of his earnings. He is not legally bound to give me that much. However, we will do a legal separation agreement. He doesn't control the money per se. I have done almost all of the spending, check-writing (other than buying cars) in the marriage. However, he has made most of the money. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks for being there!

Mimi,
It's a difficult situation about the condo. I do think you should brainstorm as many solutions as possible and get as much information as possible.

From what I gather, your WH has stated his intention to move out. Ask your lawyer if you can state in the separation agreement that he will continue to give you the check, only taking out $1500 for himself.

The line he fed you about setting up the secret savings account for "US" is BS. He was trying to siphon off money to use for condo and OW without you knowing. You don't need to confront him on it, just know it in your heart.

Be careful because you don't want to push him out the door. You may find him dragging his heels. I think that he is very confused at this time.

Ask Steve if it's better to make him buy new stuff (advantage: digging into his wallet will be painful Disadvantage: It's more of a commitment to the place- he may have fun buying new stuff and setting up house with OW) or let him take old stuff from house.

Keep up your Plan A!!!!

You do have to let him go. You don't have to buy the condo with him.

Perhaps you say- I will only buy the condo if we are doing so as an investment and if we have a renter lined up for it.

How much is the downpayment? Is the closing at the beginning of March or the end?

Don't ask him about having a date night when separated. I think once he moves out you have to Plan B him more or less. Let him rely completely on OW.

Let us know what Steve and lawyer say.

He's staying in the condo tonight. I think she's there but they have her car hidden somewhere. I just had to know this one time. I won't make it a practice of snooping. I've got to let him go!! It's hard. Again, he seemed so much like his old self today. How can "his old self" be with another woman. It freaks me out!!!

The closing is at the end of March. I made a mistake. He hasn't made a downpayment. He states that he has made a "deposit"-may be the same thing. But a downpayment would be more than the $2000 he states that he stands to lose. I'm not going to help him out of this one.

Mimi-

I am a mortgage banker by trade and the majority of the laws in AZ are very similar to what you were earlier told in CA. I agree with everything posted above, DO NOT agree to purchase the condo with him- regardless of his "intention" of making it an investment property. I am not going to get into the marital aspects of your situation, just know that legally it is not something that is beneficial to you at this time.

One more thing to consider, and realize that this is EXTREMELY devious in nature but something to remember nonetheless. It's probably not going to be necessary, as he needs your signature on the loan or a disclaimer deed at a minimum to purchase most likely- but remember it just in case. If you control the checkbook, and you control the payment of the bills, and the majority of the debt is in his name only (car payments), you also control the condition of his credit. Granted, major LB material here and definite last resort- but bad credit means tough financing, which probably means no condo, plain and simple........

Hopefully, it won't get to that stage. But he certainly is not thinking straight by letting you control the bills that are in his name only, frankly that is just plain stupid on his part. Regardless of your legal obligation in your state, if your name is not on a bill it's not going to affect your credit. I'm not saying to allow anything to go to collection or default, a late payment or two will do enough damage to his purchasing power. You may be obligated for half the debt, but it is his credit that will be affected in the short term- not yours.

Good Luck!!!!

Mimi-

The $2000 is either a deposit or earnest money, both mean essentially the same thing. Also, it really depends on his agreement with the seller as to what happens to that money should the transaction fail to close. It could have been written as non-refundable, that is entirely possible. But if you husband is the tightwad that you say he is, it is also entirely possible that the agreement that he signed has a financing contingency in it as well (very typical in a real estate transaction). Essentially, if he is unable to obtain financing for whatever reason within a certain timeframe his deposit/earnest money is refundable.

Given his track record, he very well could be "pressuring you" or using guilt to try and get you to sign the necessary paperwork, all the while knowing that if you don't he will still get his money back. Hard to say, without seeing the agreement you have no way of knowing. But don't necessarily believe that the money is gone if the transaction doesn't close in March, it may be true but it very well could be another lie as well......

<small>[ February 04, 2003, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: sadinaz ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>I think she's there but they have her car hidden somewhere. I just had to know this one time. I won't make it a practice of snooping. I've got to let him go!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, Yes, Yes!!

Your last statement, that is. You don't need to snoop any more. Do yourself a HUGE favor and get rid of that PI. Nothing but trouble will come of it.

WAT

SAD:

Thanks so much for the information about the financial aspects of my situation!!!!

I'm thinking that he has some ulterior motive for letting me manage the finances/bills. Maybe he wants me to keep away from a secret stash that he is building up. There's no way that I will sign for that condo regardless of how nice he is. Absolutely no way!! He might try to stop assisting in paying the mortgage on the house in which I live once he has his own place. He wouldn't need to worry about his credit then.

I would recommend keeping the PI, continuing to "snoop" - knowledge is power, especially when someone is trying to scr** you over. In many cases when a man leaves after a long marriage, a lot of has to do with money - don't count on him continuing to only take 10%. My H did something similar - for a couple of months, he kept direct deposit, I paid all the bills, and he took only his regular fifty bucks a week for personal expenses. Then that all changed - without him telling me in advance, of course. I would count on him being devious. My H wanted to borrow money from his retirement - five grand that he claimed he needed to rent a place. Yeah, right. He needed my signature - and one of the few smart things I did was refuse to do that.

Before long, my H had changed jobs, been laid off six months later(during a time when the company's business appeared to be booming), remained unemployed for over two years, and then finally took a job working at the OW's place of employment for less than a third of what he had been earning. Our kids and I are now living just above the poverty line.

He still goes out of his way to be hurtful and cruel - please read "Sudden Endings" - it is like reading the script for these affairs. These have NOTHING to do with the marriage. When a man decides that he no longer wants his children, as yours has said, it is blatantly obvious that this is about him. My H, although he never said that he doesn't want our children now that they are here, said shortly after he left that it was my fault that we had at least several of our six children. Yet a year or so before he left he said he wished we could have afforded more kids. He no longer appears to give a d*** about their health - one of our kids was seriously ill twice in the last six months, and never once did he email or call to inquire about her. All he cares about is whether they are well behaved - not too long after he left he stopped allowing them to visit simultaneously because they disturbed the atmosphere in the OW's house (like having 7 kids - 4 of ours and her 3 - in a condo could possibly be anything less than chaos), and he would do whatever was necessary to make sure that the atmosphere wasn't disturbed. Normal people don't ditch their kids for an OW.

Hi Nellie:

I'm taking your post into consideration. However, I really do need to acknowledge that I was not adequately meeing my WS' ENs over the past few years. Of course, that does not justify his maltreatment of me.

However, it's funny that you just posted. He just called me a few minutes ago to say: "I hope I didn't give you the impression yesterday that all of our years were bad. We had many good years together". I told him "Thank you". We'll see how it goes. Of course, it's hard for me to trust any of his niceness right now.

Mimi --
I hate to say it, but I would trust VERY LITTLE of what he says to you right now.

He's working very hard to set up his new life, and he needs to keep things smooth with you and will tell you many lies to make it so.

He WILL have OW there -- he is being VERY dishonest about his plans with her -- He is telling what he thinks you want to hear so that you won't go bonkers and cause him discomfort.

Make protecting yourself the top priority!

((hugs)) I know this sucks.

Well, I can't wait to hear what Steve and lawyer have to say.

For the moment you could just be very non committal about the condo. Sound like you are sincerely considering it.Just say, I need to think about it. Tell him you need to see the purchase papers on the condo. (You can check if there are any contignecies). Also you could mention that normally spouses consider and discuss investments together.

If his paycheck is on direct deposit how can he squirrel away money? Aren't you seeing all his income?

Well- he did stop the direct deposit once so we know he's capable of doing it again.

$2000 is not that much to lose in order to save your marriage. Especially when you've gotten two months of free rent out of it which must be worth something.

But now you have to leave him alone to figure it out for himself. Don't get excited when he says nice things- most of these WS want to soothe your feathers and stay "friends" as they stab you in the back.

Mimi, since you are seeing an Atty this week, please disclose all about this condo situation and follow the legal advice of your lawyer.
The agreement your H mentions sure sounds short for a lease with option to buy. Usually they are not less than 6 months! And deposit's usually require action by the end of the option period.
sounds a little fishy to me and I'd ask to see the leave/option agreement. If you can, get a copy to take to your atty.
And usually the deposit goes toward rents of a portion of it. Rents paid usually apply a portion toward the option downpayment also.
$2,000 is nothing as a downpayment.
In fact, In Ca. it's not a lease under 6 months!
You have a right to demand to see the paper work and have a copy. In fact, that also is illegal to possibly make you a joint owner without giving you copies of all disclosure statements, financial and otherwise!
Since you may consider going on as joint title, they can not hold you/him to the agreement without your knowledge. And you didn't know until after he had done this. And he disclosed that he was married.
Under these conditions, a good atty may be able to get all the deposit back!
As a Broker, there is no way I would have put any transaction together for your H without your knowledge and signature either giving your permission on it, because it's legally tied up in courts if you decide to push it. And your H cannot legally make an agreement for you on anything without your knowledge! This whole transaction may be null and void!
Take all this info to your atty. Then you will have weapon to use in this condo buying scam.
I think a good atty can let the sellers know that without your agreement and signature on the lease/option, they haven't a leg to stand on!
By the way, Brokers can be sued to and liable!
God bless and dig all you can. LouLou

Please be careful about trusting anything he says. They will often say and do anything to get what they want. Often, they decide that they have not gotten what they deserve - no one treats them right, they have to spend too much of "their" money on other people, etc. - they decide that others, particularly the wife, is out to get them and to blame for all their problems, and often they will go to great lengths to pay them back for making their life miserable.

It makes no sense to blame yourself for devoting too much of your energy toward taking care of problems with your son - that is what parents do. If it was taking too much of your energy, why wasn't your H taking on more of the burden? No one is perfect, but in most cases, it is the one who devotes the least to the marriage and the family that is the WS. It is not that the WS gets too little, it is that he gives too little.

Hey Mimi,

Just wanted to pop in and give you a pat on the back for staying so calm and sane. This is not as bad as it seems and may very well be the dose of castor oil that your marriage needs in order to recover. He will now be free to quickly get tired of the fantasy, which will bring him closer to a reconciliation with you. You know the ONLY thing holding him to OW is pure fantasy and it will wear off under the light of day.

You just have to be patient, take steps to protect your interests and don't commit any love busters. It will all come back together in time. You are doing great!

Mimi, talk to the lawyer ASAP!
First off, many times a condo is not a good investment. Perferable is single family homes as investment.
I would never invest in Condo, Townhouses, or time shares!
First off has H done his homework? Is he smart in Real Estate investments?
Just a few things you would need to know before any decision such as he says he's already done!
What are the homeowner association fees?
Are you allowed to rent the condo out? if so, who will handle it? Many have property management companies and require they do any renting for the owner/s. They pick the tenants!
Property managers can and usually do take half the first months rent as a fee. Then they take an average of 10% of the monthly rent off top each month.
What do they ask for security deposits? Do they allow pets? Can you make that a condition they do not?
Do they do frequent inspections of your property to see it's properly maintained by tenanat? They usually charge an extra fee for this too.
What are the economic conditions in that area?
What are the vacancy factors for that type of property?
Can you afford a negative if you rent it? For tax write offs?
What do properties like this rent for?
You will be paying, most likely, homeowner association fees. Property taxes. And will need a maintenance acct for incidentals, repairs, etc.
If you rent, you need to require the tenant to provide themselves with renters insurance.
You also need a owners policy for your protection. Lenders require homeowners insurance for their proetection.
But you need one to cover you in the event of a unexpected disaster to protect you in the event tenant is hurt or their property damaged.
They should have renters insurance also to cover their personal property.
There is a lot to be considered before just buying a Condo!
Rents in area may not cover the mortgage payment and all the other expenses.
You definitely need a copy of all the agreement made with the seller for your Atty to see.
Stall is right until you have all the right info.
You are liable for any and all whether you go on title or not!
Perhaps H is wanting to buy this to move OW into. NOT! That would be one stipulation in any agreement I signed if you do go on title.
God bless, LouLou