Hi All

H_P thank you for your support. By intending to see a Solicitor, it is purely for practical reasons, and certainly not to start divorce proceedings. Whilst I feel that this is inevitable, it is certainly something I will consider carefully. I think H will push me more to find out what he can expect from the house and coupled with that he will want to break free. I actually have an appointment Friday with a Solicitor.

For 18 months when H was in Germany I paid for everything on the house (£800 a month, about $1400) so that he could pay off his debts. The only bill he had in Germany was telephone - he paid no rent, gas, electric or anything. Also, when we moved here I put in a considerable sum of money which was left me by my Grandmother and also some of my redundancy money. I just need to know if I am entitled to this and if we were to divorce what the proceedings would be (he can not file on the grounds of my adultury, because of a timing issue).

Sorry, that was rather long winded, but don't worry, I won't do anything until I come back from holiday. I think H will be expecting answers to his questions in his letter, and when I come back from holiday, maybe then I can deal with those questions - frankly, stuff he has at the house is old memoriabilia, and nothing that he needs urgently. He can get it whenever he wants so long as he treats me with the respect I deserve and not anger and bitterness. Joint things I'm really not worried about. Again, he can have whatever he wants.

I was so hurt when I read that letter on Sunday - my heartfelt letter (that bought tears to your eyes), made him angry and bitter - how can that be? And no, I did the right thing by not contacting him. I know he will think that this is me being childish, but if he can so badly read my letter, there is no point in trying to explain.

Tomorrow is his birthday. I wish I could send a card or a note, but I know that I can't. Also, I had some good news (a very long story) that I wanted to share as it had affected him too, and I can't. I will go steadily, but I can't see that my Plan B will end his relationship. I think my Plan B will led to our divorce.

But, whatever, I'm OK with it. Bowd, you are so right about how situations are viewed differently. All H sees is the pain I caused him, and the devestation. Nothing I do or say will change that. But mainly I'm OK with me, mainly I know what I did was wrong, but I tried to put it right. Sometimes, I hate myself, but I can cope. Funny, Kily I was reading your thread, and I feel the same worry for my H - I'll be OK, but I doubt he will because of his anger, bitterness and pain. It will eat him away....

Lisa

P.S. We have had some very nice sunny days H_P, but very cold!!

LIL-

Going to a lawyer (solicitor) will only bring you a sense of relief. You don't have to start any proceedings, but to just know your rights is SUCH a hugh relief from burden.

I sympathize about H's B-Day. Instead of feeling SAD, maybe you could send a small donation to some charity in his name as a gift. This way, you have done something LOVING towards him that made YOU feel good and you don't have to break your PLAN-B! Just a thought......

Your doing well. Keep up the spirits....

Lisa,
I rarely post but I lurk a lot. I may be wrong and please correct if I am. You have told your H that you are willing to try to repair your marriage but your not sure if that is possible. I believe you are not sure you can ever fancy him the way a wife should. Your H believes the M is already a failure because of the A. I don't believe he is willing to try with you because he wants to make it with you. I think he does not want to open himself up to you just to have you say well I tried but it is not working. He does not want to fail at the same marriage twice. So he is not willing to take that risk with you.

I think that if you would have told him from the beginning that you wanted it to work and would do everything in your power to make it work he would have reacted differently. I still hope he changes his mind but I believe a different approach from you may be needed for that.

Don

Hi All

Don, thanks for your thoughts. I think pretty much you got it right, but I honestly believe that in the last 4 months I have truly tried everything to make things right between us - including constantly requesting that H go to MC with me, and addressing my own issues (such as the chemistry) of how I could let him down, plus Plan Aing even though he at that stage was not having the A - does this make sense? I also think that other than the whole chemistry issue, there are many other things that I have not posted here that happened prior to the A that H does not want to address. I think in his mind, I have betrayed him and nothing else matters. It is very sad, and I wish he could find it in his heart to give us a try, but he doesn't want to, whatever I do or suggest.

Kily, thanks for the thought of the donation. I have decided to send a small donation to the RSPCA (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals). This is where I got my cats from.

I also went to the Solicitor today. I have found the whole experience very draining, but feel comfortable now that I know about my financial obligations to H, that I can probably keep the house, and if divorce is the option, what has to be done.

Truth be told though, it's just made me feel like c**p about myself again - how could I have done so much damage, what was I thinking of, I am such a foolish, selfish person who is worthy of nothing. I still hate myself....

Lisa

LIL-

Sorry to hear the visit to the solicitor was so upsetting. It's a good sign though that you're able to function and do the things necessary to look out for your own interests. When those thoughts of shame come over you, remember that you were only 50% of the problem. I'm in a support group and it amazes me how hard it is for the BS to accept their share of the responsibity for the A! Life can be a journey of personal growth depending on how you approach it and you're on the right path. Hang tough!

Litchfield - thanks for your though. The whole experience has left me feeling really down again.

I just wonder when or if the guilt will ever really go for what I did. H's words still had the power to "push my buttons", upset me, and question my own self worth because of my poor decisions.

I have been trying to separate the act of the A from Lisa the person, but frankly the last couple of days I have felt completely overwhelmed again by the futility of the whole situation.

In between bouts of disliking myself so much it's untrue, I also realise that nothing I can do will change the way H is, and he will never accept responsibility for anything that happened in our M prior to the A. So acceptance on one level is OK, but on the other level, do FWS ever get over the guilt and shame, especially when their BS knows exactly how to make it stay for life......

Lisa

Lisa-

I definitely know what you mean with regards to feeling down. For the past several weeks I've been stuck in this rut where I keep replaying things I could've done different in my M before the D. My XWW of course had her issues but I was guilty of taking her for granted and I'm having a hard time forgiving myself. What's really blown me away in this whole process is how you can start to feel good about the direction you're headed then bang!, you're reeling again...

"In between bouts of disliking myself so much it's untrue, I also realise that nothing I can do will change the way H is, and he will never accept responsibility.."

I think part of what you're feeling now is the reality that your M could actually end. I know in my case, I was able to ward off these feelings by focusing on the possibility of a R right up until the final hearing. In your case Lisa, you'll just have to keep working on forgiving yourself. You've made positive changes in your life after the A and it's time your H steps up and claims his share of the responsibility. Hang in there and know we're pulling for you!

Hi Lisa,
I suppose grief and pain are good if they get us to change ourselves. Truth be told though, it's just made me feel like c**p about myself again - how could I have done so much damage, what was I thinking of, I am such a foolish, selfish person who is worthy of nothing. I still hate myself....

I know some things are worst than others. I know what you did was a bad thing, but I think you have tried to make it right. I know you have taken much hurt from him in the name of making it up to him. There comes a time when you have to look at your self in the mirror and know that you have done all that you could do. We can't look back from the mirror, we can't tell you when it is enough, but I have to think you are close to that point. Lisa, I believe all of us have done things we regret, all we can do it try to make them right, we can't go back and change what is done.

When you look in the mirror, I hope you also see a person that has tried to repent. I hope you see a girl that realizes her error, and has tried to fix it with all her heart. I hope you see someone that will learn from her mistake and go on and do better all her life. I believe if you really look hard, that's what you will see.

Please be willing to see the good as well as the bad. I believe you have said more than once that you don't know what else you could do to make it right. One of these days you have to realize that you have given all you can give and that it really is enough.

Have some faith that that same Lisa that made such a bad mistake can also do the right thing and be happy again, after all, we have that kind of faith in you.

SS

<small>[ February 08, 2003, 10:45 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi Lisa,
I 've been following your thread and thinking of you. I'm sorry for how you feel now. I know exactly how you feel, and it's gut wrenching.

You said, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> do FWS ever get over the guilt and shame, especially when their BS knows exactly how to make it stay for life......

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know, I think that the guilt never does go away. It is part of being a decent human being. It's justified guilt. I think we just have to accept that it's part of life, the guilt we feel--and that we accept that we're human beings.

I did ask a dear friend of mine whom I've known for 33 years about this , exactly. She had an A during her first marriage (no children involved), and left him for her present husband. They 've now been married 7 years. I asked her if she ever got over the guilt. She said, "I still feel guilty for what I did to him, if I think about it. I just don't go there too often." BTW , her former husband has remarried and is now happier than in the first marriage. He told my friend that he understood now why she left him, that he and she didn't share a 'romantic' love. He has it, with his new wife, so he says.

I still feel TERRIBLE deep down for what I did to my exH. I take full responsibility for my selfishness, even though there were issues in the marriage. The main issue was my own need for too much admiration, and who knows what else. It sure bit me in the tail, didn't it? Now I'm completely alone--without any man to love me. So be it, it's fine for now. I see it as a price to pay, for my selfishness, Lisa, but maybe I'm strange in that viewpoint.

Hope I didn't sound discouraging here, Lisa. Things will get better, in time. They really will!

Take care,
H_P

Dear All

I don't have much time, as I really must go and get my packing sorted out, but I wanted to thank you all for your support and encouragement.

H_P, yes I think to a certain extent we will always live with the guilt in some shape form or fashion, and it will be a reminder to us to be better in our lives. I don't find it discouraging, but I think again, it is about an acceptance of certain things. I can accept in my head, what I did was wrong, but I don't have to live with it for life, but in my heart, I still have my doubts.

SS - your words are always like a soothing balm. Again, in my head I know certain things, but my heart still hurts from the pain of it all. Although in many ways I have become calmer, free, because you are right - there was little else I could have done. Yes, perhaps I could have tried harder earlier after H came home, but he certainly didn't make it easy for me, and I was deeply in withdrawal. But that's easy to say in hindsight, like it's easy to say I wish I never had an A. You are right, we can't change the past, but we can work towards a better future.

Litchfield - you say two key things - firstly you can be going along relatively well, then boom, it hits you from nowhere. Well, something happens to set it off, but it can be very deeps.

You are also right that the reality of my M ending and that is becoming more real by the day. Even though there are again the many things that we can rationalise and accept on one level, your heart can still feel the pain, because it all feels like such a waste, such an utter waste. I hope you've been feeling better over the last couple of days. I certainly have....

So friends, I'm off to pack now and off on my holiday for 2 weeks. I have decided not to bog myself down or think about anything until I come back. That will be time enough to make some decisions.

Thank you all.
Lisa

Lisa,
If you are back, let us know how you are doing. We care.

SS

Good morning all.

Thank you for your note SS - yes I am back, and had a little lurk on the board yesterday and posted a couple of responses.

I had a wonderful break - Thailand is a magical place. The people are incredibly warm and friendly, it is a very beautiful and charming place (culturally, so different), and it was hot hot hot and sunny every day!!! I am definitely a warm weather person <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

What was also good about the break was that it was quite different from the types of holidays I used to have with H. I love lying around in the sun, and expected to spend quite a lot of time by myself (all my friends dive, and I don't). However, a couple of them couldn't dive (blocked ears, a bit of illness etc.) so we did some days out, elephant trekking (making sure of course that it wasn't cruel), walking, snorkelling, visitng the old town etc. etc. It helped to keep my mind from thinking about what H and I would do. I also did a couple of things I know he would not have liked me to do or allowed me to do - not because of that reason, but because I wanted to try some new things. To me, surprisingly, I was also propositioned a couple of times by attractive young men (and I mean more than 10 years younger) - of course I didn't take up any offers (couldn't, didn't want to at all), but it made me realise that people who don't know me see me in a way that I don't see myself. It was great to that I met my brother and his old friend in Bangkok and had a fun night out with them.

My friends were all great to me, although I tried hard not to dwell on my situation. I had a couple of chats with one of my girl friends, who was very supportive (and has been all along), but mainly I didn't think too much about what has been happening. I did however have some very vivid dreams when I was there - a couple about H and a couple about OM. Of course, I couldn't help but think about what I would do when I came home and facing reality - a holiday is a wonderful excuse to escape reality.

So now, I am back. There has been no contact or communication from H since his response to my letter some 3 odd weeks ago. It is more than 6 weeks since we saw each other and spoke. I wondered whether or not he would contact me again as I did not respond to his letter, but the answer is not.

I think this probably just means he was angry at the time, and has now accepted that I want no contact. The only thing is, I don't want to make him more angry by perhaps in his eyes "ignoring" him. He asked specific questions in his letter such as, his belongings that are here and of course he has a right to them and some answers to other questions.

I think I will have to arrange to see him or speak to him at some stage in the not too distant future. I can still accept at some levels that our M is over and he has no desire to reconcile. Plan B seems to have had little response. I don't really know exactly what to do, and feel a little bit in limbo. I don't think that fundamentally the situation will change, i.e. H continues to see OW, he will not forgive me for my A, he will not address the issues in our M nor will he go to MC. He sees himself as the victim only, with no responsibility for anything else. Funnily, I spoke with both SDs before going away. ESD told me that she had tried to address with H his "affair" (her word not mine) with OW. He "lectured" her for 30 minutes about why it was OK and not an A, we were separated, he could do what he wants. She said that she will never again try to address anything with him because him having a go at her is a typical response.

So that's all really. As I say, I am not sure how to address the next stage, but know that it has to be done.

Thank you for caring for me SS, it is good to know.

Lisa

Dear Lisa,

Glad to see you had such a good time in Thailand - welcome back! I hope your break has given you a new strength to tackle any upsets which the future may hold for you.

Take care,
LIR

Lisa-

Hey, good to see that you're back and had a nice vacation. Thailand sounds like a fascinating place to visit. It's not fair really as we're geographically challenged over here in the US. A reasonable travel day gets us to Cozumel and the Bahamas and you guys are off to Spain and SE Asia.

Anyway, it's good to see that you've discovered that life will go on even if your M doesn't work out. I still think you're in the early stages of this whole Plan B thing so I'd suggest not rushing things if you're okay with the status quo for awhile longer. It's interesting that you mentioned your H went on a long rant when someone suggested he was having a A. Sounds like something struck a chord as you wouldn't expect such a reaction unless it really bothered him. Should make for a interesting conversation next time you speak with him. Good luck with all of this!!

Hi Lisa,
I was just thinking of you on Saturday. Glad you see you had a nice trip!

Take care, and let us know how things are going.

H_P