The soul-searching--

Yes, very much so!

The painful retorts to ones she loves--

I remember literally LOOKING FOR PAIN...picking hurtful arguments with anyone and everyone who ever confessed any caring for me at all. The pain was familiar, even comforting. If I could feel hurt and could inflict hurt, I must be alive...it was like visiting a familiar rest area on an unfamiliar, frightening expressway (nay, autobahn)...a break from the OTHER (co-dependency) pain and a profound dis-orientation and confusion as I tried to get my bearings...kinda like checking the road signs and referring back to the map, so to speak.

Let these remarks pass as best you can. Yes, you are exactly right. She doesn't truly mean a single one of them. It's like touching base to gather strenghth for the next unknown, probably painful trip to the black hole....she's finding rest and renewal at your expense, I agree, but she does not have these resources within herself. Yet.

Yes, it's illogical and insane. But necessary. Her very life and being may well depend on it.

BTW-Just the fact that she is there with you and taking these snail-like baby steps....shows you how much she truly DOES trust you....and very probably love you.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You are very blessed to be able to SEE and EXPERIENCE God at work...Live and in your living room! Your life will never be the same!

<small>[ February 09, 2003, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: HelenWheels ]</small>

Boink! ...for the new week. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I had a thought the other day, during a convo with my W. We were talking about how is it possible for an atheist to be spiritual? I came up with this example.

I do things like this all the time: 30 years ago, while working on the Navajo reservation with a church organization, a bunch of us went to the Hopi reservation to answer an invitation from a Hopi friend. One of my other friends, who had spent many summers with the Hopis, was driving. When we got to the reservation boundary, he stopped the car, got out, walked off to the side of the road, and turned a rock over. Then he got back in the car and continued driving. When asked why he'd done that, he said, "it's a sign that you're a friend of the Hopi. I always do that when I'm entering or leaving the reservation." He did that again on the way back. And he said he does that every time he goes there.

I do stuff like that all the time, whether there's anybody to witness it or not. Why would I do something like that if nobody were around to witness it? Because it's something I do for myself, based on a belief that something like that can have a positive influence, not just on my thinking, but on the people that I interact with, whether they're aware of my actions or not.

Kind of similar to how we all learn, through interactions with our spouses and other people close to us, that we can affect the moods of other people, not just by what we say or do, but also by what we feel inside. Many might call that "body language", and maybe in a large part that's what it is. But is that all it is? I don't think so. And I'm an atheist <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

-Qfwfq

Sorry to burst into your thread again, but hmmm.....maybe this applies to my nearly incomprehensible H too:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The painful retorts to ones she loves--

I remember literally LOOKING FOR PAIN...picking hurtful arguments with anyone and everyone who ever confessed any caring for me at all. The pain was familiar, even comforting. If I could feel hurt and could inflict hurt, I must be alive... it was like visiting a familiar rest area on an unfamiliar, frightening expressway (nay, autobahn)...a break from the OTHER (co-dependency) pain and a profound dis-orientation and confusion as I tried to get my bearings...kinda like checking the road signs and referring back to the map, so to speak.

Let these remarks pass as best you can. Yes, you are exactly right. She doesn't truly mean a single one of them. It's like touching base to gather strenghth for the next unknown, probably painful trip to the black hole....she's finding rest and renewal at your expense, I agree, but she does not have these resources within herself. Yet.

Yes, it's illogical and insane. But necessary. Her very life and being may well depend on it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Q - it's so wierd how I am finding paralells lately between my supposed BS(H) and your W (WS). Glad I can learn from your thread too!

Jen-the-thread-jacker

Jen:

No problem! I'm glad that people's comments to my sitch can help you! (just like some to YOUR sitch have helped ME).

Thank you,
-Qfwfq

Boy, I felt rather like a turd in a cesspool this morning!

Why, you ask? Well maybe you didn't, but here goes:

Last night, while we were watching TV, my son brings the phone upstairs and says there's a call for my W. She takes the phone, and answers a couple of one-word answers, but listens most of the time. About 30 seconds into this, she walks into the kitchen, and I hear her say something about reservations, and then a credit card number. After she got off the phone and came and sat down, I asked her "what was that about?" And she said, "Oh, just somebody trying to sell me something." I didn't say anything, but that got my stupid imagination churning all evening. I wish I had said something right then (or not at all, this morning), because:

We get lots of solicitor calls. I'm usually a lot more polite than my W is, and talk to them for a few seconds to find out what they're about, then sometimes even wait for them to respond to my "I'm not interested" reply before I hang up. My W usually just says "I'm not interested, goodbye", and within about 5 seconds she's off the phone. So that got me worried. I'm supposed to be going up north to visit my dad in a week and a half, and then I'm off to Houston for a meeting in March...

Well, I asked her this morning, innocently as I could: "So, what were they trying to sell you last night on the phone?"
W: "Actually, it was a hotel in ****. I made reservations for a nice room for your birthday. It was supposed to be a surprise, but now you know."

ol' Qfwfq shrank 2 sizes. And so fast that I fell a couple of feet to the floor.

I turn 50 next month (which for me is probably about 5/8ths dead!) Now that I've lost all that mass, I might not last THAT long!

I hate it when I open my mouth to change feet!
-Qfwfq

poop floats

Pepper:

Thanks! ...but are you saying?... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' Qfwfq

Q,

As I was reading your post - I had a bet with myself (betting with myself is the only way I can guarantee a win!!) that she was planning something for Valentine's Day.

Silly, silly you!! CSue

CSue:

Holy COW! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

That's actually possible! But I won't expect anything, I promise!

Either way, it's a beautiful message.

Hey, folks. I need to send her a valentine email today, because she's supposed to be out of the office on Thursday and Friday, and wouldn't be reachable. I would like to start with something like Pepper suggested a page or 2 back, and work from there. Any ideas?

(There's a cute pair of cut-out V-day cards on the back of the "little debbie" valentine cakes box. I think I'll cut one out and give it to her when she gets home Friday!)

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
-ol' Qfwfq

<small>[ February 11, 2003, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Qfwfq ]</small>

I don't think it was Q-foot-in-mouth-disease to voice your thoughts/fears to your W .... unless you give off accusing vibes with voice or body language.

Let's see.... hmmm?? I think it's called RADICAL-Q-Honesty!!!

Remember, youngster, it is your job to be emotionally honest within your M. This is intimacy at it's finest! And that includes emotional expressions that you are personally uncomfortable with. That's called integrity! You are learning how to express fears in a non LB way.

POOP FLOATS .... My H always called that movie "Hope Floats" by this derogatory name .... juch a jokster. You should hear what he calls Kingpin .... UN printable!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Do you have a CD burner?

Make her a music CD of all her favorite romantic musical favorites.

Silk nighty, body oils, and a book of poetry... which you dress her in, rub all over her, and read to her.

Pepper:

Well, I can burn CD's, but since my computer belongs to work I have never done it with music (an "ethics violation"!).

My D is good at making music CD's, though. Trouble is, my W hasn't listened to a romantic song in about... ...well, at least 12 years! So I don't know what she'd even like.

The other stuff sounds kinda fun, but if she's really planning this hotel reservation for this weekend, I don't have much time! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-ol' Qfwfq

CSue:

And to give you an idea of just how dense ol' Qfwfq can BE at times (like masonite!), I JUST REALIZED what "HelenWheels" login name referred to!

SHEEZ!

-ol' Qfwfq

Geez! I go away for a couple of days and Q's given up SF for...reading?!?!?!?!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

SC:

Nope. For loving! And besides, it's only been a couple of weeks! (but I've forgotten how, nonetheless! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

-ol' Qfwfq

Does your W like classical music or opera?

Amore~ Great Italian Love Arias

perfect-o romantic CD for nookie!

Pepper:

Classical is okay, but she doesn't go out of her way for it. Opera gives us both heartburn. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' Qfwfq

I want to convey something like

"I love you and always will. Not because I think it's my "duty" or something, but because it is so easy to do!"

But not necessarily in those words.

-ol' Qfwfq