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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But as long as you wait for OW and BF to be "done" with each other, assuming they ever will be, before you let things between her and you "run their course" then you'll be okay. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yup, that is what I meant, and, further more, my M would have to be over as well. That's a given. But, I must Plan B first to ensure that I have done everything, which I have up to this point.
-Luki
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Luki, I want you to look straight into my eyes as I tell you something!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> OK...(best I could do)
When I caught my WS, on Dday, and he finally came home later that night to face the "reality", he was asked 1 important question!!!! and that was:
(name) Could you have prevented this from happening????
He answered: YES
Well, as foglike as he became that was the one honest thing he said from D-day on!!! Now Luki, I'm going to ask you the same question: Can you prevent this from happening????
Think wisely grasshopper!! Either your marriage will rebuild, or it will end...that is the only thing you should be dealing with right now.
Whatever happens after you find out the results of the above scenerios is OK by me..do you understand that?? At least you will know that it had nothing to do with anything or anyone but YOU and WIFE!!!!
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Neesha,
Absolutely, I CAN prevent this from happening, or blowing up, or whatever. I have managed to straighten myself out today thanks to the replies to this thread and to some very heavy thinking on the treadmill <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .
But seriously, my M outcome comes first. I realize that. I guess any relationship, no matter how good or "safe" it might be might always be tainted. I don't want OW to think that she helped finish things off either. That is not fair to her. You are right, I would feel much better knowing that I did not bring a third party in to the fray, no matter the situation. Thanks.
Now the hard part. Dealing with it.
-Luki
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Luki- I am at work now and have only skimmed the responses but it sounds like they are good responses and you need to take heed! I know we live in the same area and I would love to get together with you and talk about these feelings you are having. If you are at all interested in meeting with me I can give you my email and we can chat in person. I agree you need a male that you can talk to about your M and your felings for your OW. I would love to meet you and be that support system.
Let me know if you are interested, if not I am still here and still pulling for you. Please run away from that cliff!
STTSI
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Hey STTSI, I plan on going to the Minneapolis Beyond Affairs Network(BAN) meeting next Monday. Here is a link to the coordinator list: BAN Emails You must contact the local coordinator first. They will get you the information you need in order to attend. Let me know if that works. -Luki
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Luki- Not trying to thread hop, but I was planning on going until my WW sent me the DV papers. I nned to talk with the coordinator and see if I can still come. If so I will see you there. Either way I will gladly get together with you anytime this week if you want!
STTSI
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It doesn't matter where you are at in the R. As long as your not the WS is the only exception, I think. The times I went, there's been people that are living together, separated, or divorced from thier WS and in some in recovery w/ their FWS. In other words, your in. Contact the coordinator to get the ball rolling. Hope to see you there.
-Luki
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Luki, "I guess any relationship, no matter how good or "safe" it might be might always be tainted"
You make me proud Luki!!!!! I mean that seriously. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
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Luki,
BS' are not made of stone. The Ws try to pretend that we are made of stone and keep throwing crap our way......that makes the BS ripe for an A...... whether they realize it or not.
Here's story you may not have heard before (but I have told it a few times)....... when I first came here in 2001, d/d was Nov 2000...... it was not long before I started to have feelings for someone else. My son wanted a to replace his dad and so did my heart. It scared me. It didn't happen only once.... that scared me even more. It was not common knowledge even to the one I had those feelings about. The other person did not encourage me, it was something I started in my heart and had to end it in my heart. It is very easy to do.
You were right to come here. I came here and got help. 2 x 4 twice a day for 2 months is what it took. I sought out advice and read up a lot.
Why did this happen? Because as BS we are hurting and want so much to be loved and cared for. The WS and OP were doing their best to make our lives miserable and we were and are the victims. Realize this....... get help and get over it. It will take a while but even if the OP does have feelings for you, truefriendship will know when to leave.
take care, L.
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Thanks Neesha, I am going to need more encouragement in the days ahead.
Orchid, Thank you for sharing that with me. It sounds very similar to what I am going through. She (OW) has not encouraged me either. But, these feelings are not scary, not at all. The scary part of this is, if it were not for my best friend I surely might have done something stupid by now. To me, it is the risk that this poses to me, OW, and my best friend that is the worst part of this thing. I am feeling a little better today. I have not talked to her or seen her since the weekend. I know I must let this go. I am facing a very uncertain future right now. WW has plan B'd me and I plan on officially Plan B-ing her after I return Stateside. I know WW is near her breaking point. I just wonder how long she can hang on if I am starting to slip. I told her in counseling of these feelings in order to bring some reality to the situation, but also as a shot across her bow to let her know that I am not eternally pining over her.
I am keeping busy every minute of the waking hours trying to hold the flood back. This is a crack in the dam I have to plug or the whole thing is going to break. I have lost most of the love I had for my W. The only thing that keeps me going is that this is her mess and if she wants to D me she will have to fire the first shot. I am not going to do it. Is that right?
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Not that what I have to say matters but , I am shocked and disappointed. My h and many WS have claimed that , that is the way the A began and no BS ( well most) was able to handle that as an excuse .
You are going to a female friend and now finding more common ground with her other then betrayal .
Well isn't that what all ws say? I am sorry for the 2x4 but it sounds like your justifing yourself cause your going through a horible thing with your M .
I am so mad I can't get everything out .
If she wasn't anyones girlfriend maybe thats a sign that your marriage is over .Maybe that is what this is about u can have feelings for someone else and maybe time has come to decide if your M is over .
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3,
What you say does matter, just so you know. I’m not trying to justify it. I know it is inappropriate and that is why I came here first become committing a royal screw-up. I'm not sure if my M is over or not. That is out of my hands at the moment. Please don't be mad. I have kept these feelings inside me and have not acted upon them. I know that the outcome of my M comes first.
The 2x4 treatment is ok, I need it. Frankly I'm surprised WAT or RH didn't beat you to it. <small>[ February 05, 2003, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: Luki ]</small>
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Hey Luke ... we don't want to play bad cop every time but we lurked <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . I do beleive you should do NC for time being and tell your new found OW that you need to work on yourself and she should repect this. However ... word of warning, she will even want to chase you more ... LOL !. Wanna hear bad story ? ... one of MBer down the same path as you but he is not able to pull himself out. One thing lead to another not only with PA ... but now there is OC involve. SO much about safe s3x.
Don't tell me it could not happen ... you have been warn enough.
-rh-
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Brief(sort of) update here:
So far, so good. You guys helped me put my head on straight. I still admit some surges in emotion but I am bottling them up so far.
WW and I are approaching 5 mos. of separation and I wonder how much longer this can go on. WW broke NC yesterday with an email inquiring about my trip overseas. I have not responded, but I think I will, since I am not "officially" in Plan B yet. It was a weird email. When I first read it, it seemed like she was "trying to friends", which is ridiculous to me. But I had another thought. What if she is reaching out to me by sending me such an email? Here is the text:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Wow. That should be nice. At least you will get to escape the snow and cold for a little while. Are you going to get to go climbing? If so, where?
By the way, your diploma (or at least what I assume is your diploma) came in the mail. No more computer parts have arrived, but maybe that will take a little while longer. Let me know if you would like to pick up your diploma before you go, or if you need anything else from the house for that matter. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See what I mean by the "friends" tone of it. But, on the other hand if she is guilt ridden, then, could this been a reaching out?
Anyway, I'll ramble some more on the subject at hand. I don't think OW will pursue me. Things are not great in her R, but they are in a cooling off period where they are talking, which is good because that means there is less of a chance that she will call me. As long as things stay like that, I'll have an easier time dealing with this.
Like a lot of BSs, I have moved into the state of withdrawal and I am getting ancy about the rest of my life. 30 years is just around the corner and for me that is like starting a new chapter in my life. 30 used to seem so far away. Right now, I feel that my M is over, but I want to go through the motions just to be sure. These feelings for OW are a sign that I am extremely vulnerable. Not only do I need to be loved but I equally need to give love to someone; take care of them. Sounds sort of like maternal instinct in a way, doesn't it? Am I losing it?
When communication opened up with OW, I saw a person whom I could trust and open up to. All the opening up to my WW got me emotionally battered. That's what sparked these feelings; the ability to become vulnerable again to some one. And while that is a good sign that I am not permanently damaged, it comes at the most inappropriate of circumstances.
So it seems I am following the pattern of the BS that I have seen here. So if that’s the case WW should want to reconcile soon, but will I want to? That’s the pattern, right? Wishful thinking, I know, to think that things are almost over.
-Luki
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Luki:
Don't worry (at least not too much) about your emotions regarding the OW. You're human. The fact that you're keeping them to yourself, rather than telling her about them is good. But don't bottle them up either. Talk to us. We know what can happen if you slip, and we want to help you not slip! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I thought the email from your W was nice. I'd respond to it. I don't know much of your story, though. But I find that it's always good not to let wishful thinking get out of hand. At the same time, you don't want pessimism to stifle your ability to respond favorably to any positive developments that might occur.
Take care, -Qfwfq
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Luki, I respect your posting your feelings here and the admission of possibly going too far with OW. At least you're being honest. If some replies seem harsh, I think it's because people here really do care and sometimes it takes a 2x4 up side the head. Truly! Verbal though it is. Those who have walked in your shoes are the ones who can best advise you. Listen and heed. Anyhow, look at other situation in this light. OW and BF are not doing good in their relationship. Of course, she's made it all out to be BF's fault. It never is the fault of one person. So if she can't keep this relationship together, what makes you think she'd be any better for you? You just never know the truth about a person unless you've lived with them. And you cant' do this to find out. Answer your wifes letter, and be nice as well. She may be reaching out and waiting on you to make the first move. I don't know your story either, but isn't it time you and she sat down and talked about your future? And tried to work on the marriage together? It's really not safe to stay apart so long and allow the brain to start wandering aimlessly out there! You have to fix your mind on your wife, marriage and gain the tools to at least try to save it. You owe that to you both and so does she. God bless, LouLou
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Luki, I would answer the e-mail..she may be coming out of the fog a little bit. PS Any room in your suitcase for your trip abroad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> SH01
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I went ahead and answered the email. She got back to me pretty fast. I will probably see her this Sunday when I go over to OUR home (I’m still locked out) to get some stuff I need for traveling. She is concerned about me going climbing which is interesting. Why the h*** should she care? Maybe there is a glimmer of light coming through the fog, but I doubt it. I am going to get everything I need so I can go into a full-on Plan B. I have the letters all written, and ready to go. Maybe I will mail on the day I leave and call it good right then and there. I think I will do that. No sense in waiting two weeks, no sense at all.
Ladylou, that is a good point you bring up about truly knowing a person. You are right, I am in no position to try to find out. I will heed the advice given to me. I can catch you up a little. We went into counseling. I was hoping to “negotiate” and end to the affair. We got 4 sessions in and we were to a point where the counselor suggested that she stopping seeing OM so she could get the space she needs to deal with things. She refused and so counseling is dead. She knows I have feelings for someone else, because I told her. We barely exchange emails. Marriage is all but a technicality at this point in time. That does not make ok for me to pursue other relationships though, for the reasons given in this thread. I am just very haggard right now. Time to let the river run its course with Plan B. There is no other way.
SH01, That’s funny you should ask. I am bringing an empty suitcase so I can load up on goodies. Hop in if you want, but it would be a one way trip. 
-Luki
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Luki,
This is my 2¢. Proceed with plan B and also NC with OW. Give also NC letter for OW to W and Give Plan B letter for W to OW. Reasoning here ... you have to make it safe for W to come back if she is willing and this will take the monkey from your back. For OW, there is no rule of tumb when one should start dating but this relationship could be a rebound (???) relatioship for you and the only way to find out is temporary separation 'till you sort out your M. If OW is a for you she would wait and respect your decision. She knows she is playing with fire when she went out with a M man. If there is a future for this R let it be a clean slate for you & OW.
Don't read too much into WW's email. Reply it politely w/o any R talk or nothing, just like answering a stranger's questions. WS sometimes get 5 minutes fog lifted and write or call you but they still thinking about OM 1435 minutes/day. She knows how to go back ... let her be explicit on her words and actions.
-rh-
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Redhat:
I don't think Luki's "OW" knows she's an OW. He hasn't told her of his feelings for her. Right, Luki?
If he has, then I would agree with you that sending her copies of his plan B letter to her would be a reasonable thing to do. But if he hasn't, informing her even of his intention to work on his M and not talk to her might give her a "hope" for the future that would harm her current relationship with Luki's BF.
-Qfwfq
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