quote:
I am feeling confident tonight. I think I blew my WS' mind at the health club tonight. I was aloof, didn't try to talk to him and talked to a lot of people I knew that were there. Plus, I had a knock-out new exercise outfit on as someone here suggested. I caught him sneaking looks at me and he even came back in after he dressed to say good-bye. [[Big Grin]]

Great job again Mimi!!!!! You are a fast learner...
Keep up this attitude even when you do not feel confident... You are getting him to do some thinking... Let him wonder... Let him wonder.... Let him wonder what is going on in your mind ..Let him wonder if maybe he has pushed you too far...

Remember what Dobson says... "sometimes it is necessary to inject a challenge in the relationship... this is what he needs... he has probably been somewhat bored with his life...

Do not let him back too easily... Make him work for it... Tell him that you have needed some space to sort things out too...... Keep being aloof, but you do not want to be mean... Just confident that you will be ok regardless what happens...

He will probably start to pry into what is going on in your mind... Remember.... keep your cards close to your chest.... The biggest mistake most people make in your situation is to reveal too much of what they are thinking......

Great job so far!!!! Trust me, this attitude is working!!!!

Boy ,Am I on your page !!. H is in process of giving ow the boot too . Should be by end of wk. It's been 3 wk since she's known and been out of town most of that time so they haven't been there together much. But what if she's not gone by end of wk. In my post I said I feel like ow .How do you feel about them staying there together ? my h says he wouldn't stay there if she did( she was coming back last night from trip) I wanted to go out there but a garage would keep me from seeing car or cars there .Should he have called me to tell me what was going on -this is so confusing and causing such turmoil in my head .
I too think my h has turned a corner but I want her out NOW - I don't care where she has to go -she came with a bed and sofa so she'll have a place to sleep !!!LOL -Let's keep up with their progress -it feel good to know someone else going through exact same thing
GOOD LUCK

MiMi ---P.S. Is it important for you OW to know why she's getting the boot - it is to me but how do we know exactly what they are telling them ??

Great job Mimi! I love your story about the health club.

And the truth is- WS is seeing the woman you are. If he suddenly decided, I'm staying in the condo and filing for divorce, I choose OW- YES you would grieve and cry and feel depressed- but in the end, you would pick yourself up- you would get out there to the health club in your new outfit, you would smile and chat with other people, you would draw your friends around you and seek comfort from your church, and when you were ready you would encourage, slowly, some friendships with men. You would do this knowing you fought for your marriage, you worked on yourself and that you are a good woman with lots to offer.

So you are giving WS a little glimpse of that reality. That your life will go on without him- and you are not going to crumble and seclude yourself in your house. He might as well see that NOW before he's lost you irrevocably. His fear of losing you will only be a positive incentive to act sooner rather than later to save his marriage.

I know that inside you feel insecure and sad, worried about standing on your own two feet without the man you've been with for 30 years. I know that at times you will feel you're faking it. But that strength IS inside you Mimi- just know that.

We had another 2 hour long talk today. He told me more than I probably needed to know about his A and the OW. I now understand why Steve H. called his A a "distraction" and my WS called it a "diversion". It's almost pitiful!!

This information is all in response to my questions. I'm not sharing it in the order it was given. He states that she was married 3 times, has had several abortions, is not religious, was a victim of incest, does not have much "intellect", mother is an alcoholic , does have custody of her 12 year old daughter but leaves her home alone when she is with WH, drinks too much, will probably go on to the next man after him. You get the picture. He insisted, "I don't love her" but she calls me a "valuable", "good" man and "they" (meaning family )won't treat you as good as I do. He states that he knows that she won't love him long-term and will be going on to the next guy. However, she has not been with an educated, upstanding man like him before. He mentioned one of the last scenes in UNFAITHFUL where she realizes that she should not have gone into the lover's apartment that first time.

He was expressing remorse and regret over what he has done. He explained that PlAN A worked. Of course he did not know it was PLAN A. He stated that I consistently showed that I cared while OW was saying that I did not. Also as Steve has indicated, he sees a future for us. Now we have the three needed factors for being "in love".

However,continuing problem with finally ending the A. WS seems afraid of her as in the movie FATAL ATTRACTION. It seems that he thinks she's a little crazy. He expresses concern about her revenge; makes the point that she does not own a gun. However, she is not in his league, worldly,seems to have done some of everything.

He wants me to help him work on a PLAN. Steve states that this was an important goal, that we work on the plan together. I guess we are doing that but haven't come up with any ideas. He states that he DEFINITELY wants to come home. He knows that there is no future in that relationship. He acts as if he is "in love" with me again. He was giving me those old looks, like I told at the healthclub. Said today, "You really look good". Wanted to hug a couple of times. Cuddly hug, not sexual. Is concerned about immediate NO CONTACT with OW. Wants to slowly dwindle down to NO CONTACT by the time he has to give up the condo in two weeks. Talked about how he can get rid of the stuff he has bought and how we can use some of it such as new TV. He even talked about me talking to her about how I love my husband and don't plan to give him up. He states that she complains about this, that I won't go away like the girlfriends/wives of her other conquests did.

She is from the other side of the tracks. She is definitely not in our social circle. She has been asking him since he moved out if they can be "normal" now. He realizes that he can't do that. Has continued to want to hide her and lead the double life-his "black hole"

What do you guys think?

Wow!.... Major progress here.

Has your H been giving OW money? If he has, things will be worse.

Here's a thought, WH could have a religious ephiphany .... start making a show of praying and demonstrating his religious intentions ... go to his house of worship, start reading the Bible in front of her, confess that he has sinned and needs to redeam his sins, and then explain to OW that his renewed religious convictions as well as his love for his wife have opened up his eyes to a whole new world.

He can tell her, "I now realizes I must follow God's laws, and return to MY sacred marriage with 100% of my soul. Good-bye forever. God has told me it is no longer possible to have you in my life."

..... who could argue with that approach?

<small>[ February 11, 2003, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pepper:

Actually I suggested that idea about a religious conversion!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I asked him almost every question I could think of since he was being so open. He claims that he has given her "fake" jewelry that got stolen in a breakin. Bad things happen to bad people. He denies giving her money. I asked him "What is she getting out the A?" The chance to be with an upstanding, Important Person. My WS used to be a bigshot in our community before he began isolating himself with her.

Wow, wow, wow. This is the real deal, mimi.

I can't offer advice because I haven't been here. OK, just a little advice: go slow and validate his anxieties.

OK, what did I tell you a while back? She was just an "appliance" right? A victim as much as you, right?

Shall we call her "Maytag"? "Kenmore"?

Sorry, that's cruel.

WAT

Well, of course she wants your H (for the moment). If she's alone with a 12 year old D, then the forbidden romance is a diversion from HER boring life. She gets the ego trip of winning a MM from his family ("he loves me so much, he gave everything up for me") She knows he's a good wage earner. $$$$. She knows he has community standing (dreaming of being called Mrs. X, a big ring on her finger, moving into the condo eventually with her D) having your WH pay for her and D's lifestyle and even perhaps (if she doesn't know about vasectomy) cement the relationship with another child- one that WH will raise. I bet she's imagining the baby shower right now. And if she does know about the vasectomy, she's dreaming about the honeymoon cruise!

Your H WILL have to face her anger and disappointment. There is NO way around it. He should STOP having s&x with her immediately- continuing it will only feed her anger when she realizes he's not committing to her and will make her feel used and bitter. Could she go psycho on him? Well, it's always possible (think Carolyn Ann Warmus and Amy Fischer- though they attacked the wife, not the WH) but unlikely. Most likely she will get over it in time. Anyway, waffling and continuing the A will only make it worse! He will have to face the music now or later and delaying things will only damage his relationship with you and he could end up with NOTHING.

H could take a few tactics to make himself seem less attractive to her. 1) Start telling her about his financial problems (manufacture a few)
2) tell her he got some bad test results from the doctor's and needs to be at home 3) tell her that he just realized their relationship spells ADULTERY and he remembered it's one of the 10 commandments to not do it 4)an impotence problem might help.

Do you have any appts with Steve? Maybe your H can get advice from Steve about how to extricate himself from the A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>He even talked about me talking to her about how I love my husband and don't plan to give him up. He states that she complains about this, that I won't go away like the girlfriends/wives of her other conquests did.

?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What a vicious little b****. There is no need for you to talk to her. Your H is going to have to grow some balls and break this off himself. He needs to tell her the truth in his no contact letter and quit playing around here. That is the least he can do to repair the damage he has done.

Mimi, do not waffle on this point or you will end up with a "tapering" WS for months on end who yo-yos back and forth. If you want to talk about the nightmare of the century, that is it.

He needs to be clear that his part is to end this affair CLEANLY and honestly. No vague hints, no baloney about how the wife won't let me go, just the truth: "I love my wife and I am sorry for the pain I have caused her. I have chosen my life with her and our relationship is over. There will be no more contact. " Your name should be CC'd on there. Don't let him waffle on this very important point, Mimi, because you WILL regret it. This is a boundary that you must protect AT ALL COSTS before you let him move back.

It might be hard for him to end the relationship, but it has been harder for you to live with an affair and its time for him to act like a man and make amends to his wife. This is the first step.

It's been made clear that there will be lots of daily continuing conversation between us about ending the A. That was the point of the meeting today. Its just such a big step for us to be working on something together, being real and normal with each other again, really talking.

I left some stuff out of my report to you guys. I used your words Mel, "you need to be a man about it, I'm not going to do your dirty work".I just think we need more discussion. For some reason, my WS who wanted more control in this household is intimidated by her. I need to learn more about this from him. I was thinking that maybe he feels she has something on him, knows info. that he doesn't want anyone to know about. Some freaky stuff that they have done???

He also is concerned about the fact that he hired her sister to work at his office. He said that he made the mistake of making things "enmeshed and entangled". His other assistant is her friend. These women are being replaced in two weeks by more well-trained staff members as a requirement of the home office of his company. Until then, he's concerned about what they might do regarding his business affairs. The self-destructive nature of affairs!

He is clear about the need for No Contact. I gave him my copy of SAA to take with him to read "How to End an Affair". Appt with Steve next week.

<small>[ February 11, 2003, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Mimi, it also might help if he started crying blues over money woes. Not having enough now to take her out, pay for anything, etc.
He can always say you got control of it legally. Basically, that's not a lie because you do have legal right to it. When the gifts stop, the dinners our, lunches, etc, and she sees she is not going to have much now, she'll perhaps move on to a more padded bank acct.
Yep, he should tell her the truth though. He has his problems at work by hiring her sister, and then the friend. It's his place to replace them now. In fact, by hiring people who aren't capable or as experienced could put him in a bad light as well.
Yes, they may get nasty and start the gossip. but then he asked for it didn't he?
He will have to take his punches like a man and straighten out all the little road bumps himself.
He's making himself look bad to his company and that means his job is or could be in jeopardy.
When they start their revenge, he's going to have to just ignore them as much as possible. And you too.
God bless, LouLou

Well- you've come this far- and if it's only two weeks until the workers leave- you may gain more by being his ally- than by being a harda$$. The thing is to distinguish legitimate fears from waffling and not wanting to break it off.

It may be best dealt with in an honest conversation. Tell him that NC is difficult to achieve in a long affair. It's like QUITTING smoking- one day you have to throw the cigs away and never pick them up again. Say you understand his concern about the workers, and you will back him up, but that if this is an excuse to buy time he is only hurting everyone involved.

His actions on Valentine's Day will tell you something.

I can hardly believe it but he seems sincere and continues to be consistently looking like he is out of the fog.

He's been calling me on my cell phone as if just wanting to talk, checking in, being accountable,trying to stay away from the fix, making sure I'm still there for him; that seems to be the purposes of the conversations. He called me on my way home from work yesterday on his way out of town for a meeting. After our chat,he informed that he was turning his phone off so she could not reach him. Then he called me this morning on my way in to work. Said she showed up at his condo this morning at 6:30 AM to find out why she could not reach him last night. Claims plans for us to get together this weekend. I informed him of how difficult it is for me to trust him. I have to be careful because an important part of my PLAN A is showing him admiration and having confidence in him as a MAN. He wanted to impress upon me this morning that he is "taking care of this", I need to "believe in him" and she will be out of his life "forever". He's agreed to the NC letter but insists that he is waiting for the workers to leave, does not want his mistakes to affect his job, his family's security and income. Wants me to know that he is making steps to cut it off, to minimize contact, that he is making steps that I can't see.

Also talked about our need for HIV testing and need for no S@# with her.

When you think about it, he must have gone temporarily insane to be with her. Reality must have set in when he left and had to be in her world full-time. It's weird. Yesterday when he came to our house, he walked around and touched things, went in and looked into his closet, like he wanted to reconnect with his world or something.

We'll see what happens.

Mimi, it sounds very good. Keep up the Plan A, but also keep up the work on YOU! Don't let all the calls be R talk & OW talk, try to work in some interesting subjects, fun stuff to talk about, jokes, thoughts, observations etc. It's good that you're letting him make the moves on you. Think back to when you were first dating- don't let him be too sure of you. Let him court you and woo you some.

Espoir:

This is SO interesting to me. I do feel like he is courting me again. It feels the same as in our college days. Wonder what caused this turn of events? What caused me to be so attractive to him when he seemed to hate me a couple of weeks ago? I think demanding respect has been important. Steve told me that my WS found allowing disrespect to be an unattractive, annoying habit of mine. However, I did not know it was this important. There was something too about leaving home. I think the instability of the OW became scary to him. Good idea about the fun talk. I have another cute outfit for the health center tonight.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>I do feel like he is courting me again. It feels the same as in our college days. Wonder what caused this turn of events?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here's the answer: When the alien abductors finish experimenting and put the scrambled WS brains back in order before they release him/her, they somehow "stir" the brain cells which rekindles old memories. The WS feels this sorta like when you have a dream and a day later you wonder whether you dreamt something, or was this a REAL memory. This is why he had to go check the closets - did he dream about that shirt, or does he really have one?

I'm not making this up - this is what actually really happens. Take it to the lovebank.

WAT

WAT:

I will absolutely vouch for that! My W asked me about a conversation we had the other night that I don't remember a word of. She elaborated, and I got more and more sure that I never heard what she said she told me. She then said it was as we were going to sleep, and I suggested that maybe I had already nodded off, and was just saying things like "uh huh" in response after I was already in dreamland. I don't actually think that I do that, much, but she sure does. I told her that, and she acknowledged that maybe that's what happened. But the convo ended with her really wondering if we had the conversation at all. ...I don't think we did! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The aliens have brought my W back, but they still hold the pink slip.

-Qfwfq

Mimi
I am so happy for you, keep up the good work, looks like your husband is sincere and wants to work things out.
My H called me today and said that he wants to break up with his OW, that he needs time and he needs to think of how to do it. He also said that he needs to be away for the weekend. I am very sceptical about it. He is going to see her and have S#@, not to break up with her. I have to pay close attention to his actions. If he is not here for valentines I will give him 2 weeks to brake up with her. If not then I am going to Plan B. I have nothing to lose.

Well good luck to you. I hope everthing works out fine for you.

Worthatry, LOL I love what you wrote.
Mimi, good going. Stick with your plan.
Misia, no way would he or should he be going away for this weekend. Of course he's going with her. AFraid yours in still in lala land.And lying through his teeth. I think going away for weekend for Valentines is the final straw! Or would be for me dear. He doesn't need to find a way to break up. It's simple. All he has to say is , "Hey Bit--, I'm through with you now" Adios! Don't call, write or come by ever! BTW, I bought my wife a 45 for valentines so beware! LOL
Done.
God bless all, LouLou