</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ALostSoul:
<strong>Well, frustration is setting in today. My W confuses the heck outta me sometimes. Even 4 months since D-Day, her behavior remains impossible to predict.

Anyway, looking at the clock here, I see that it's basically about 9 hours until the proposed time I asked my W to get together for dinner. She read the email invite on Tuesday afternoon (2 days ago). And she still hasn't had the decency to get back to me with an answer.

I assume at this point her answer is no, but I am pretty disappointed that she didn't even have the decency to get back to me yesterday or Tuesday, even if it was just a one line e-mail telling me she didn't want to come over.

I'm as patient as the next guy, and I still at least hope she'll be considerate enough to get back to me today, but she remains very unpredictable and inconsiderate to me, and it does cause some major love bank withdrawals.

After having such a good day last Thursday, I was hoping that our communication lines would at least be more open and regular now. But since Valentine's Day, I haven't gotten a bit of communication back from her.

I realize it's sort of a taker-like behavior, but I also don't feel like a quick reply is asking for much. I just hope inviting her over for dinner didn't scare her away or something. I guess she still only feels she can see me when there's a legitimate "business" reason to do so.

Just a frustrating day!

ALS</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is why you can't do Plan A forever.... it will eat away at the feelings you have, so when the A ends you won't care enough to restore the M... AND it makes it impossible to do a good job long term.

If you think of Plan A as an arc... Plan B should begin just past the apex of the curve. While you are still strong enough and care enough about your spouse and the M to stick it out for the long haul ahead.

Once you begin the downward descent on the right hand side of the curve (assuming you are culturally conditioned to read from left to right) you are undoing the good work you did in the beginning of Plan A. The impression you leave with your spouse will not be as pleasant.... and in fact if you wait until you get to the bottom of the curve... they might even be happy to see the end of you!!! NOT the effect we're hoping for!

Hang in there ALS.... I know you're frustrated and anxious.... you'll do fine... and whatever happens we'll take the another step.

(Yes, I really am out today... I had a 8am no show, so I'm left with some extra time.)

C

Yep, absolutely right. I guess it's frustrating because I don't WANT to go to Plan B. I don't. I am giving this everything that I have. I guess the most frustrating thing in my situation has just been the unpredictability of W. One day/week we have some great communication and things go so well. Then she turns around and gives me the cold shoulder and treats me with very little respect the next week. If only there was some sort of consistency with her actions, I'd be able to persevere.

I'm not giving up, I still want to Plan A but the way I'm treated sometimes does have me seeing that Plan B horizon get closer and closer.

I am still strong enough that I won't LB or do anything to hurt my Plan A efforts as far as W goes. I come here to vent but it stays here. If it starts bleeding over into interactions with W is when it'll definitely be time for NC, but for now, I still do very much enjoy the time I spend with her and am very comfortable, it's just frustrating when that time is so hard to come by, and so unpredictable.

Thanks for the continued support, C. I appreciate it beyond words.

ALS

Yep, absolutely right. I guess it's frustrating because I don't WANT to go to Plan B. I don't.

NO ONE wants to go to PB. Not ever. If they do.... then they are long past the point of when they should have! But generally what I find is that most folks hang on in Plan A, and then when they get to the point where they can't take it any more, they just quit.

My biggest problem is convincing spouses to either go to Plan B before they get to that point, or to give it a chance instead of just heading off to the lawyers and filing for the evil "d" word.

When you still care you want to hang in there and do everything you can. And as soon as you don't care... you just want out. NO ONE wants to so PB.

The thing about recovering from infidelity is that the steps you must take... the action required.... goes against just about every instinct and every emotion you have. You need to be able to shut off the emotional instinctual messages and to act solely on intellect.

Next to impossible.... which is why you have me to keep you on the straight and narrow! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

C... really, I'm leaving now.... really!

ALS,

I just want to say that I think your actions are incredibly thoughtful and patient. You have great strength and determination. Try not to be so hard on yourself (easier said than done).

You are correct, Plan A cannot go on forever. I did not want to go to Plan B either and was fortunate enough no to have to use Plan B.

Something I hung my hat on was the fact that less than 5% of all affairs develop into a long-term, solid relationship. That 5% looked really big to me at the time but I knew that as long as I was respectfull and set reasonable boundaries there was hope.

Trust yourself. Keep thinking positive thoughts.

C, you're totally right yet again. I almost feel like I can't even have a Plan B at this point. I'm sure you'll help me figure out a way, but the way I feel about it, sometimes I figure Plan A will just end and then I'll just be done. Like today, for example, it's past 2 PM and W still hasn't even written me back. That's just plain rude, really. As I always say about email, she's at a PC all day long, it would literally take her 30 seconds to respond.

If she's trying to get a message across that she doesn't want anything to do with me, she's doing a good job. And if she's trying to get me to go away, she's also succeeding. Things like this just irritate the heck out of me. All I'm asking for is a little courtesy. Of course, it will also make it easier to go to Plan B. I don't appreciate being treated like I don't even rate high enough for an email when I extend an invitation. Whether it's to accept it or deny it.

Plan B does seem very irrational in my situation. I'm already seperated and W, as far as I know, still wants to end the marriage. So Plan B to me feels like she'll just want to end the M at that point (upon delivery of the letter or whatever). So if Plan B time comes, I'll definitely need some help in implementing it properly.

JimTex,

Don't think I've heard from you before! Thanks for checking out my thread and responding, I really appreciate that.

I am seriously giving this all I can. I realize it's important to work on myself and live my life, and I am doing that just fine. I have good days and bad days. Today's just been a disappointment. Not so much that W doesn't want to get together, but that I don't even rate high enough to get a response. That hurts.

I am glad to hear that your situation turned out so well. It really takes the A ending and then both partners willing to take steps to improve things. You're right, communication is KEY! I still feel my W's A will end at some point, I just don't know if it's going to be soon enough for us to make it. I'm still just depressed that she never even gave us a chance after D-Day.

Anyway, I hope things get better. Just kind of a bummer of a day. Thanks for all the replies, though, I appreciate the confidence and the input immensely!

ALS

Don't mean to be an a$$, but you could always call her. It's a legitmate reason to pick up the phone and see if she's made a decision. You do have to prepare for such things. I understand the ball is in her court and that her head isn't where yours is at right now. But you invited her and you want to make sure you're prepared no matter what she's decided.

I say you cook for her anyway. I wouldn't do it special, per se. But if you're making somehting that can't be made for just a few servings (soup, lasagna, meatloaf, etc), package some up for her. I cook for my wife occaisionally and send her "home" with stuff. It's not like roses (or other stalker-ish behavior <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) but sharing of food is an awesome gesture -- culturally speaking -- that I've found has gone over well. Whether or not she eats it, I don't know. But it's always appreciated.

Hi ALS, get an answer yet? Concerned MB's want to know!!! Try not to get so down. I think you're doing fantastic. BTW...

Hi CERRI!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You are just the bestest coachee.... I wish everyone was so well behaved!

Hey, was that a shot?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> (jk) Really, ALS, let us know what goes down. I personally think your're doing a terrific PA. I'm sure Cerri could name out individuals (or maybe a specific individual <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) who made a complete debacle of their PA. Best to you and your W.

MTD

p.s. I wonder whome the afore mentioned individual could be, poor soul.

Well folks, I got completely BLOWN OFF. Totally. Wow. It's not cool.

Yep, for the first time since this whole thing started, W just out and out ignored me this time. She's been slow at responding to email before, but this one had a deadline (since the invite was for tonight) and she definitely read it on Tuesday.

So, basically, instead of writing back to decline my invite over to the house for dinner, she just chose to not get back to me at all. So I'm pretty disappointed right now. I didn't very much expect her to accept, but an email declining would have been courteous.

C recommends a very brief email tomorrow just to ask about W and make sure she is doing okay, since I didn't hear back on the dinner invite. I will do that. After that, I am dropping back into the shadows. I am feeling pretty bummed about the way I was treated right now though.

It's all VERY confusing, as our interactions last week were so positive and good, I had a great time hanging out with her last Thursday, and I thought she did too.

Only thing I could think is that V-Day with OM went really well, she got a nice gift, they had a great time, whatever, and that dropped her right back into her NC fog. It feels like right after D-Day when it would go 2 weeks before W would return an email to me.

Anyway, whippit and MTD, thanks for asking about me. I'll keep you posted if anything changes. I'm trying really hard to keep a positive attitude here, but I am pretty upset at how this one turned out.

ALS

<small>[ February 20, 2003, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: ALostSoul ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by madly_truly_deeply:
<strong>Hi ALS, get an answer yet? Concerned MB's want to know!!! Try not to get so down. I think you're doing fantastic. BTW...

Hi CERRI!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You are just the bestest coachee.... I wish everyone was so well behaved!

Hey, was that a shot?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> (jk) Really, ALS, let us know what goes down. I personally think your're doing a terrific PA. I'm sure Cerri could name out individuals (or maybe a specific individual <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) who made a complete debacle of their PA. Best to you and your W.

MTD

p.s. I wonder whome the afore mentioned individual could be, poor soul.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NO!!!! That was not a shot. You are the bestest too, but then I didn't have to talk you through this kind of PA!! And for that I'm glad. I like to see happy endings sooner rather than later!

I would never ever name names or point fingers. N0 ONE does a perfect PA or PB. We're human and stuff happens. Good Goddess, you should see the mistakes I made...... and still make. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I am very empathetic to things going wrong. My philosphy is that you pick yourself up, dust off the debris and then move on.... learning something along the way.

Looks like C and I posted at the exact same moment there almost...Scary, we must be on the same wavelength or something today!

I guess the worst part of this Plan A for me has been that, now that I'm done backsliding and really have been doing all I can, sometimes it STILL backfires. Last week really felt good, and I didn't feel an innocent invite to dinner this week, considering we've had regular Thursday contact anyway, would get this kind of reaction.

Now I'm just questioning everything again, wondering if it WAS something I did or something totally out of my hands. It's tough just because some days I feel I could do EVERYTHING right and it's not going to change a thing as far as W's feelings for me go. But that is the reality of the situation. She may never come back no matter what I do.

I'm just a little bit weary of the fight tonight.

ALS

ALS:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you and C come up with this dinner idea to see if she'd be interested in taking "the next step", but recognizing that she might not be ready to, so not to get your hopes (really expectations) up too high????

Seems like you expected too much of her right now.

I wonder if you should go into the shadows, or just pretend that nothing happened (nothing lost by her not showing for dinner that is) and talk to her on Thursday if she calls like "normal."

You and your coach probably know better, though.
-ol' Qfwfq

I think I hafta agree with Mr. Jibberishname. Roll with it. Maybe she'll mention it. If not, let run off your back.

Oh I would definitely talk like normal if she called. But she didn't call today either.

Now NEXT Thursday, perhaps she will call.

C is still recommending I e-mail W tomorrow to ask if she is okay. I am sort of now having second thoughts on doing that...I seemed to have gotten better results in the past by just doing nothing at all when repeated attempts to contact W have led to no reply. So I am considering just sitting back and waiting for W to come to me again.

C knows best though, so if she recommends I e-mail W, I will.

As for expectations, I don't feel I ever had any expectations of her either accepting or denying the dinner invite. I did expect at least to get a reply. She's always replied to me in the past. Maybe not always right away, but this time she had all week and she knew the invite was for tonight, so yes, I guess I did expect she'd at least have the courtesy to give me a yes or no answer before tonight. But I guess even that expectation was too high.

Lesson learned from this, I suppose, would be not to expect ANYTHING at all from my W right now. It just casts a lot of doubt on feelings I have towards her right now. I could certainly understand being shunned if I were treating her poorly or we had a lot of tension lately, but things were actually getting better last week.

I'm just baffled by this week.

ALS

Looks like C and I posted at the exact same moment there almost...Scary, we must be on the same wavelength or something today!

Two of us on this wavelength would indeed be frightening! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I'm just a little bit weary of the fight tonight.

I think our PB timing may have to be moved, but let's see what these next couple of days bring. We'll talk later.

I don't want you ending up where I see so many going. To The Land of I Don't Care and I Just Want Out.

In fact here's an assignment for you... read around the boards... report back to me how many sucess stories you can find of people who stayed in Plan A for more than Willard Harley's maximum reccomendations (3mos. for women, and 6 mos. for men)

Sucess is defined in this way: Recovery to include rules of Time Honesty Care and Protection. Both partners would agree they have feelings of romantic love and find each other irresistable. The most important needs are being met to fulfillment and the POJA is followed.

I challenge you to find one case that meets that criteria. Plan A long term DOES NOT SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE.

(Yes, really... it's amn assignment, it'll keep your mind busy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

C

Hi C.

I was actually thinking about PB yesterday and today. The 6 month point since D-Day will be April 21, 2003. 2 months from today. Today is actually my 4-month D-Day anniversary. Though I believe A was going on for at least weeks before that, I am going by the day I actually "found out".

Anyway, so that gives us 2 months before we hit the six month point. As far as the assignment goes, I might get fired if I do that much surfing here at work, but I will look around. I can already say this much, from the posts I have read, I haven't found that many success stories, if any, for people that had to Plan A longer than the required time. I will look some more though.

There are always exceptions, but point taken: A long term Plan A isn't going to work for me. You're right, I'm going to get to the point where I don't care anymore if this keeps up. Maybe it's even what W wants. I'll always remember she said after D-Day that it would be "so much easier" if I hated her. Sometimes I wonder if she deliberately sabotages things in the hopes I will give up and make this easier for her. I also sometimes wonder if she is reading my posts here. Soon after D-Day I did send her links to the MB site. Never told her about the forum or that I posted here. But she could have found me.

Now about PB, is this a normal feeling? It's not that I don't want to do it, but I feel like it won't work. I feel that, given how my W has handled NC since D-Day, it won't have any effect. I think the DB technique of "going dark" might work better. That being, very little contact from me at all, but not an out and out REFUSAL to see her or talk. In other words, maybe more along the lines of treating her the way I've been being treated. Only getting back to her briefly and not taking so much initiative. That seems to have gotten results in the past.

Maybe you get this from every person who goes to PB, but I just get the impression that my W will never be the one to come "crawling back" and say she wants back in the M out of the blue. And that's really what PB requires. It requires the spouse to basically "give up", admit they were wrong and want back into the M. And I have to be honest that I never see my W swallowing her pride and doing that. I think she'd sooner just move back with her family than want me back, at least if I pull the PB scenario on her (don't talk to me until you are willing to come home). And don't even get me started on a PB letter to her and OM...Especially OM...I think I may as well end the M right there if I send a PB letter to OM.

Anyway we will talk about this. But I have been thinking about PB and having a lot of doubts of how effective it will be in my situation.

ALS

<small>[ February 21, 2003, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: ALostSoul ]</small>

I'm guessing stranger things have happened ... that many have thought PB was a recipe for dissaster and wouldn't work only to have been proved wrong. As I said, I'm just guessing. My experience is rather narrow.

Frankly, if PB doesn't work -- or PA for that matter -- then she doesn't deserve you. If pride is more important to her than her word (read integrity and respect), then you're better off without her. I don't mean to speak gloom and doom ... I hope by this point you know that I'm a big fan of you and your efforts.

Just keep your head up. Because no matter how this all ends for you, we know and you know you did the best you were able.

Wow, I have a fan? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Thanks Whippit, I'm flattered!

That really does make me feel better, actually. So thank you. I am confident that I am such a better person now. I wasn't really THAT bad before, but I have learned a lot about fostering a good relationship, and meeting needs. I feel I can make any woman happy and feel she'd be very lucky to have me. So in that regard, yes, if my W decides to not come back, I do feel like she is losing out. I don't like the idea of losing her forever, I still love her, but if her pride is keeping her from even wanting to try, she doesn't deserve what I have to offer.

That being said, I'm sticking with Plan A for now, but Plan B will come if things don't get any better. No one looks forward to Plan B, or wants it, like C says, but she assures me that it's a mandatory and necessary step, even if I feel like it's pointless.

Thanks whippit, your post made me feel better, I appreciate it.

ALS

ALS - to help with your homework, I'll enable my sig line on this reply.

Yep, one solid year of Plan A - but with Steve's advice due to my "special" circumstances, that being the added dimension of the loss of our son as the prime motivating factor for the self medicating affair.

That said, when I finally went to Plan B, I hadn't felt so free since I stopped wearing underwear! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I don't detect that it's quite time for Plan B for you, but I do recommend you start working on your letter. Reason: just working on it can be therapudic. Many others have reported this. Putting down in words your innermost thoughts and rationale for cutting off routine contact will be enlightening in one way or another.

Also, is it possible you didn't get a dinner invite reply because you invited the cat and not her?

Youch!! I'm sorry you didn't get the response you wanted ALS. I got a lot of the cold shoulder treatment from my W too during her "fog days". Really sux. But maybe you did set your expectations too high. Still, at least an email saying no would've been nice, if even from the cat. You know I'm not a big one to give advice, besides, you're already getting some of the best there is. Speaking of which, Cerri, you DO know I was joking right? I've made it very clear I probably wouldn't be married now if not for you. I AM your biggest fan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , 'cept maybe for your H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . Like the others ALS I am a big fan of your efforts also. Maybe we should start a club <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Keep your chin up and try not to sweat the small stuff. Easier said than done, eh?

MTD

<small>[ February 21, 2003, 04:48 PM: Message edited by: madly_truly_deeply ]</small>

Speaking of which, Cerri, you DO know I was joking right? I've made it very clear I probably wouldn't be married now if not for you.

Yes of course, goof. But keep up the flattery just for good measure! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />