My wife has always had a fantasy about being with another woman,which is really a turn on for me.2 women WOW! ..i was hoping to get some input from some other people who as couples have had this happen,and how did it affect your marriage,and relationship.1 night me and my wife are making love,and she asks me,what i thought about having another woman join us,altho she would only be for my wife,i could only touch her,no kissing or intercourse.of course i would still make love to my wife during this.my fear is.everyone knows a woman knows HOW TO please another woman better than us guys.How would i stack up???

sweat:

Please don't take this wrong, but... ...YECCHH!!!!

I haven't tried this, don't ever want to, but you probably will get lots of replies from people who have tried it. Most will tell you it will ruin your M, not help it.

Dont' go there.
-Qfwfq

Sweatinlove.

This is a bad idea.

Fantasies are fine as long as they stay in the realm of fantasy. But as soon as they cross into reality, a host of unexpected problems arrive to bite people in the [censored]. You can not imagine the number of people that regret having let their fantasies become reality.

You may not view that your W having sex with another woman as infidelity but it is. It is taking the marriage exclusive need of sexual fulfillment and letting a third party fulfill it.

You might want to ask your W what would she do if you were against the idea?

<small>[ February 20, 2003, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: CoffeeMan ]</small>

Agree completely with coffeeman! BAD IDEA!!!!!!

thats how i feel as well,i sometimes sit and think about it,and think that i would be really jealous,and hurt..seeing my wife with someone else besides me albeit another woman.would kill some special feelings i have for her.i told her i didnt like the idea initially,but she has brought it up again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> (

sweat:

Talk to a counselor!

Seriously, you've not "crossed the line" as yet. Please get help, find out what this desire on your W's part signifies, and restore your M now, before you have to go through what most of us have gone through here.

uhkay?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
-Qfwfq

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i told her i didnt like the idea initially,but she has brought it up again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hate to be the bearer of bad news but the fact that she has brought it up again sends a huge red flag that tells me that she might already be involved with another woman, and she is trying to convince you to let her have sex with her in order sanctify her A. I would suggest that you tell her that it doesn't matter if the person is the same sex gender as her, it is still infidelity and ask her if she is already involved with another woman.

coffee you have read my other post so you know my situation.when i 1st accused her,i asked of another man,or another woman..my fear was just that,spending the night at this girlfriends house..but thats just jealousy comming out and thinking the worst.she has told me that she didnt think it was cheating if i was there..but,that it was if she did this alone..so she knows the diffrence.i really dont think my wife has ever cheated on me with either man or woman,and its just a fantasy,that will probally never happen,nothing personal,and you do give good advice.but you are very quick to say "AFFAIR".im assuming your wife cheated on you.

So your W is bi? Her need to give you commands of do's and don'ts makes me wonder if she isn't already doing something.

U approve of this lifestyle? IMHO, it is headed for trouble and you have the option to not be involved in this trouble.

Why do you think your W would want to take a M relationship and make it like...that?

L.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Fantasies are fine as long as they stay in the realm of fantasy. But as soon as they cross into reality, a host of unexpected problems arrive to bite people in the [censored].
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with this. Even though there are a minute number of cases in which there aren't problems resulting from adding another person into the mix (emotional entanglements, etc.), the vast majority of the time it winds up causing way too much harm to justify one night of pleasure. And in my experience, the fantasy is usually much better than the reality. I think this is a can of worms better left unopened. And to be blunt, if this is a long-time fantasy of hers, she should have done it when she was single.

<small>[ February 21, 2003, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: lostbuthopeful ]</small>

no orchid,she isnt bi..me and my wife started dating young,she was 17,me 19.i was her 2nd relationship,as well as her 2nd lover..she has mentioned it as a fantasy..im sure fueled by me making comments thruought the years when we have either watched xxx movie together or seen it on some movie,about how i thought the guy in the 3some,was a lucky guy,joking around,but still stating it..so maybe she feels that i would like it more,which i wouldnt.its a fantasy,now she tells me its something she has always fantasized about as well,in the same breath she ha ssaid she hasnt found her type yet,and that probally means she doesnt have a type..let me rephrase a earlier comment i posted..i said she brought it up again,actually i did,after i started thinking about her maybe having a affair with another woman,i asked her if she was serious about a 3 some when she brought it up..at which time she said if the situation was right,the person,place..she would probally want to try it..but i can see aloy of people feel as i do.once u clear the smoke of it being a fantasy,and make it look more like reality,its a scary thought,i would never want to share the intemecy i have with my wife whom i love more than myself with ANYONE.just wanted opinions ..thx

Hi,

Thanks for the clarification..... s3x is just one aspect of love in a M. To bring in another party just for that one aspect is bound to hurt and damage the M. Why? Because the M is meant only for the H & W, not adding any OPs. Just no room for it. For those who fantasize about multiple partners, those are just setting themselves up to fail and hurting their family in the long run.

Watching pornographic films to fuel the fantasy may seem harmless but it is often the catalist that leads to the A. That is what happened in our case..... H watched those movies and it got under his skin.

Be careful.

take care,
L.

sorry to hear that,its not like we watch porn all the time,as a matter of fact,she only likes the ones that have a story line hahaha,but actually,we havent watched one in years,scary thing is when she was talking about the 3some,she also said she wanted to TAPE it.i was like uhh!!maybe just fuel to the fire? spice up the talk of it,maybe just testing me?but i agree with you 100%..sex in a marriage is for the couple ONLY.and if she needed that,she should have tried it before we married,and started a family..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">nothing personal,and you do give good advice.but you are very quick to say "AFFAIR".im assuming your wife cheated on you.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No offense taken but you are posting on the infidelity general questions II board are you not? You are not wrong in assuming that my ex-WW cheated on me (multiple times in fact) and it was a long time before I finally realized that she had cheated on me because I did not heed the huge red flags that were being waved in front of my face. The reason why I'm often quick to say 'AFFAIR' it's because, more often than not, individuals whose spouses are acting strange have later confirmed my suspicions that their spouses are indeed involved in an A, and sadly today's statistics bear witness that women have practically caught up with men in the infidelity department. Not to mention that my fiancee, relatives and close friends, have related to me stories about people, that they know about, being involved in A's (roughly half of which are women). So maybe you'll now understand where I am coming from.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i said she brought it up again,actually i did,after i started thinking about her maybe having a affair with another woman,i asked her if she was serious about a 3 some when she brought it up..at which time she said if the situation was right,the person,place..she would probally want to try it..but i can see a lot of people feel as i do.once u clear the smoke of it being a fantasy,and make it look more like reality,its a scary thought,i would never want to share the intemecy i have with my wife whom i love more than myself with ANYONE.just wanted opinions ..thx
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well now that you clarified the situation, it would be prudent for you and your W to stop the fantasy role playing before it becomes a problem later on. Why don't you instead read up or watch educational videos that will help enhance you and your W's sex life. As lovers, there is always room for improvement, don't you think so?

points well taken,and im not arguing the fact that women DO cheat as much,if not MORE than men,i guess i didnt read closely enough,i just thought this was "General Questions" didnt realize it was infedility.im sorry your wife did that to you,unless the husband is totally shutting the wife out emotionally and physically,there is never a reason to cheat on your spouse,and inflict that kind of pain on another person..if i had a dollar for as many chances i had to cheat on my wife.i would be a rich man.but i repsect her way to much,and our relationship to do that.i would hope i would get the same respect from her.so thats why when i get these crazy thoughts (only because i am off work and playing the housewife role)i found this site,and all the great people here who have lived thru it,and from which us new to the game can learn,once i layed all the things my wife has been doing in the past few months,and asked her to look from the outside in..i then asked her,does it look like an affair.either emotionally or physically to you..she paused,and said yes,it does..but assured me it wasnt..i knew when i posted all the facts here,i would get swarmed with "she is cheating" post.as i would probally say the same thing.i just pray to god that its not.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sweatinlove:
once i layed all the things my wife has been doing in the past few months,and asked her to look from the outside in..i then asked her,does it look like an affair.either emotionally or physically to you..she paused,and said yes,it does..but assured me it wasnt..i knew when i posted all the facts here,i would get swarmed with "she is cheating" post.as i would probally say the same thing.i just pray to god that its not.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excellent, you made her aware that you are not a H that is blind to 'strange goings on' on her part. I truly hope that she is telling you the truth because the pain of betrayal is excruciating, devastating, and something you wish that nobody else goes thru. Just like freedom, the price of a great and healthy M is eternal vigilance.

I wish you and yours the best.

From my own experience it is way over hyped a 3 some. My advice to you would be not to do it. It is over exagerated.... Don't do it. It will cause problems in some way or another in your marriage.

sweat,

I've never been exposed to your situation so take what I'm going to say as my opinion only.

Everyone's advice here is right, when living out a fantasy poses a problem in the M the best thing to do is to never let it come to fruition. When you add an OP to a R, loyalties, affection, etc are then split, not a good idea because from these come jealousy, insecurities, resentment, all of which damage the marriage. But I think I may be preaching to the choir already.

What I would do if I were you is to fill out the EN questionnaire on this website and find out what EN you are not filling for your W. I will then take these and discus them with each other, then seek help from a marriage counselor who believes in marriage. We all have fantasies but when the fantasy is persistent we need to find out why. What am I trying to fill? What have I left undone? You have to question why she keeps insisting. What if this is her cry for help in this marriage?

If she is having an A with a woman, and I'm not saying she is, the odds are that she will not tell you, you will have to find out.

Your issue seems to be bigger than the two of you so this is when you need external help.

Be well.

sweatin,

1. Get a divorce first both of you took vows forsaking all others and to cherish one another...threesomes are in direct conflict of your wedding vows....get a divorce...(return the gifts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and threesome your little heart out...

BUT BUT BUT

Be very very clear that you are undermining the exact essence of a committed intimate relationship....that a sexual bond in all it's true God given glory is the essence of creating that and maintaining that with the person you are married to....not blurring the lines of how important that is....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> .my fear is.everyone knows a woman knows HOW TO please another woman better than us guys.How would i stack up???
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please tell me that was a joke...for it is not..it speaks of some misguided beliefs about womans sexuality...and is a slight warnng flag in your own security with your relationship with your wife....

You play with this believing that it is something that will enhance your sexual relationship with your wife... you will get burned...

It disrepects the very essence of the vows.
It disrepects as well that third person you bring into your bed...as you send this mixed message that my wife and I have such this close intimate bond that we would like to use your own sexuality to fullfill us...to treat other human beings even with their consent as thus speaks volumes about your own responsibility in devalue-ing others sexuality...to fullfill "percieved" needs/wants.

I feel like I foolishly need to defend myself here, while I am no prude...(what good puritanical descendant would ever admit to that..deny deny deny <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )
that I believe exploring/experiencing and just down right enjoying oneself in or out of the bedroom in marital bliss is truly a gift from God and just all around good fun....
BUT any action that breaks with or blurs that line of the convenant is destructive to oneself in ways that go very very deep.

ARK

thx coffee,i hope so as well.before this gets blown up bigger than it is.Its simply a fantasy of my wifes,something she has probally wanted,or thought about trying..and for her to come to me after 17 years of marriage,and great sex mind you..with this fantasy shows me atleast she wants to know how i feel about it,maybe to see how much i really do respect her and our relationship during these troubled times

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=014316

my initial post,now wife asked about this "3some" the last time we had sex..which was november,our anaversary..im kinda hoping around because im searching for some answers as to why my wife is acting as she is,one day she is smiling and laughing..and things feel good,others she is cold as if she has a emotional wall up,i got her a special card yesterday and wrote some questions about how she is feeling,and how im starting to feel alone..this morning she has been cold..after reading the card...so i am lost..read my other post,and piece the puzzle together thx

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">now wife asked about this "3some" the last time we had sex..which was november,our anaversary</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Am I correct in understanding that it's been close to 3 months since you and your W had sex? Is this a common thing for you two?

From you're postings I'm beginning to wonder whose fantasy this is????

I agree that there's probably something more going on here than just the expression of some fantasy. I know a couple (in-laws) where one wanted to "experiment" like this and ended up leaving for the other person. I know some people are more open sexually than others but this crosses a line imho that isn't healthy in any way for a married couple.

its her fantasy,not mine..i dont want it,i only asked advice her because i love my wife so much i would do anything to make her happy,and if this will make her happy..i know it doesnt feel right,and im sure problems would stem from this act..just wanted others opinions who have done this,and how it affected there realtionships..coffee.my wife had a historictomy 6 years ago.she had her toobs tied after our 2nd 12 years ago.female problems run in her family..she takes zoloft which effects your sex drive,we have had periods where we didnt have sex for 3 weeks or more.this long period is mainly because she is questioning her love for me..because of me neglecting her in the past.emotionally,like i said read my other post and you all will know the whole story

<small>[ February 22, 2003, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: sweatinlove ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Original post by sweatinlove:

it all started 3 months ago..wife was staying out late,she works nights.and has no set time when she gets off work.but always came home right after..i am off work with a hurt back.from a auto accident on my job.so i still get paid.im home all the time.i do all the chores.cleaning,laundry,cooking ect..wife does none,when i was working it was the other way around,anyway back to the story.she got to where she stayed out all night..when she would leave to go run errands.she would be gone all day and night,even on days she wasnt working.we had a prepaid cell phone,that a 25 dollar airtime card would last us 3 weeks to a month.during this period,she went thru 3 airtime cards in 2 weeks,so i was fearing the worst.altho up until this started i never EVER worried about her..now,being im stuck at the house now,your mind starts thinking the worst..so we got in a few pretty big arguments over the amount of time she was away,and of course the extra cell phone usage..during this time she ran into a old girl friend that she knew back before we met..who i never met,or didnt know..when i confronted her,i let my anger get the best of me,and asked her if she was having an affair..she got really upset and said NO.how could i even think that.and then told me that she wanted to seperate,that she wasnt happy with the way our lifes were going.i begged her not to,and that i wanted to work it out.so we are kinda seperated in the same house,for the kids sake really,and im trying my best to patch things up..my problem mainly is..#1 we havent kissed or even touched in the last 3 months,and she spends the night with this girl and her husband prolly twice a week.when i tell her i dont like this,and that i wanna meet them,and know where they live,she refuses.saying that she doesnt want me to start any **** with her friend and her husband..my point is.how can u have friends that your mate doesnt know of,where they live,there telephone number..am i wrong?we have always had the kind of relationship where we never said yes or no to going out with friends ect.just that we know where we go,and when we will be home.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Call me paranoid if you will, but you'll see that it's not just me, but others here as well that have raised their eyebrow and are saying to themselves 'she's having an affair'. Just the last highlighted quote from you, should be enough for you to investigate on your own if she is indeed telling you the truth. Since you are off on disability, hire a babysitter to look after the kids, and follow her to see where she is going to and find out for yourself if she is indeed telling you the truth.

Oh and her comment 'No. How could you think that' is a classic response by the unfaithful spouse to the betrayed spouse to make him/her feel bad for even contemplating the thought. And her comment to separate is also a classic response by the unfaithful spouse to be free to persue the A without worrying about the betrayed spouse being in his/her way.

Like I said before, I truly hope that I'm dead wrong about this, but I would be doing you a great disservice by not pointing out these huge red flags being waved right in front of your face.

<small>[ February 22, 2003, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: CoffeeMan ]</small>

Coffeeman:

"Like I said before, I truly hope that I'm dead wrong about this, but I would be doing you a great disservice by not pointing out these huge red flags being waved right in front of your face."

I'd hate to say this, because I'm the eternal plan A optimist if there ever was one, but: How could his W possibly NOT be having an A, given this information? Not just with the GF, but with her H? That's why she wanted to try a threesome with her H. Because she's already having them with her GF and her GF's H???

Boy, I really hope I'm wrong about that. But, either way, it's most important that sweatinlove concentrate on doing his best plan A right now. It would also be useful getting to the bottom of what's going on, either without her knowledge or otherwise, just so he knows for sure what he's up against. If he finds out that our suspiscions are correct, he should consider "outing" the A per WAT's guidelines, and then wait for it to die a natural death.

We're here for you, sweatinlove, no matter what the truth behind your W's behavior is. We're here for her too, through you.
-Qfwfq

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CoffeeMan:
Oh and her comment 'No. How could you think that' is a classic response by the unfaithful spouse to the betrayed spouse to make him/her feel bad for even contemplating the thought. And her comment to separate is also a classic response by the unfaithful spouse to be free to persue the A without worrying about the betrayed spouse being in his/her way.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whippit: By a show of hands, who here at MB has been on the business end of a spouse's anger when you confronted them about an affair?
*Everyone raises his or her hand*
Whippit: And who here has had, prior to D-Day, a spouse suggest a separation?
*Everyone raises his or her hand*

We talk about "the fog" as if only the wayward spouse lives in one. As the betrayed, we have our own fog, too. It's that period where we refuse to believe our guts, to ignore the signs. But in the same way that our spouses come out of the fog in their own time, so must we come out of ours.

Skip the forums for a while, read the Harley books (all of them ... they go fast) -- Dr. Phil has a couple worth checking out, too -- and the content at the main site. Go get some help from a pro-marriage counselor in your area. Step back and try to see your marriage as objectively as you can. Knowledge and self-awareness are your biggest allies and best friends right now. It's a long road to get back and beyond where you once were in your marriage.

On another note ... the only thing I will add to the discussion about threesomes is that that [censored] is for when you're single. And even then, one must be careful.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Original post by whippit:
Skip the forums for a while, read the Harley books (all of them ... they go fast) -- Dr. Phil has a couple worth checking out, too -- and the content at the main site. Go get some help from a pro-marriage counselor in your area. Step back and try to see your marriage as objectively as you can. Knowledge and self-awareness are your biggest allies and best friends right now. It's a long road to get back and beyond where you once were in your marriage.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree with skipping the forums because they do serve the useful purpose of helping a foggy BS open his/her eyes to what's happening around him/her. They are a great place to vent frustrations instead of doing it with the spouse. And they can help support both a BS and WS because they will realize that their problem is not unique and that others have not only survived but rebuilt their marriages into much better ones than their pre-A marriages.

But I do agree with the rest of the recommendations and I would just second Q's comment 'you are not alone. we are here for you'

QFWFQ:I'd hate to say this, because I'm the eternal plan A optimist if there ever was one, but: How could his W possibly NOT be having an A, given this information? Not just with the GF, but with her H? That's why she wanted to try a threesome with her H. Because she's already having them with her GF and her GF's H???

I asked her about that.believe me,everyones opinions i have thought about way before i found this forum.She kinda laughed and said,when you meet them,and see them,you will laugh yourself.I guess she means there not good looking people?My wife has always been the type to "spend time away" when things are bothering her.When she felt i didnt care anymore (in her own head,plus some of my stupid actions)she didnt want to be home and face it.So she stayed away..she tells me thats why she stays gone.not anymore here latley albeit,but before..she now spends time at home,and we are doing family things,and we also had a nice valentines weekend at the casinos,and had a nice suite.she has been mistreated all her childhood by family and friends,so she is gunshy,i have had my periods where i neglected her emotionally over the past year,and i now see and am changing a 180 if u will..and its starting to work,she told me lastnight she loves me,but needs time..whatever that meansbut the 2 nights a month she stays with her friend she says is "girls night" and a nuetral person to discuss her feelings and thoughts..as she thinks that everyone is on my side about this,and that she is over reacting about it all..even her parents side with me.me and her mom are close,and when i told her all the facts,about staying gone ect..all i have posted here..and then asked her if it looked like a A..she agreed,but told me that she didnt think my wife would do that.that she has had many chances to do that if she wanted,as wife is a beautifull woman,and has had many advances,promises of money and a easy life.but has told her mom she loves me,and would never hurt me that way.so thats why i came here.looking for my own neutral opinions,mostly everyone here fuels my original thoughts,and i know the red flags,and gut feelings.but her excuses mostly check out,and she has never ever in the past shopwn me to be that kind of person..i guess untill i know for sure either way,ill continue to "kiss her [censored]" and do whatever she wants to show her i truly love her,and dont want to loose her.atleast we are past seperation,and are together in the house working on things..thats a start

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She kinda laughed and said,when you meet them,and see them,you will laugh yourself.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So when is she going to intruduce to you her friends so that you can have that much needed laugh?

<small>[ February 22, 2003, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: CoffeeMan ]</small>

Okay, sweatinlove, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. Let's assume that everything she's telling you is true and that her reasons for staying out all night are to regain her composure after YOU've done something to hurt HER. This is all entirely plausible, even though the odds are heavily against it being likely.

Now what? Try having a discussion about the difference between secrecy and privacy. We all need a little privacy. But secrecy is a whole 'nother animal. From our "iloveulove" resouces page, Spacecase posted this definition, which has helped me in dealing with my W's "concepts" of these terms (and the correlative terms "truthfulness" and "honesty"):

"The Difference Between Secret And Private

Private matters are those traits, truths, beliefs, and ideas about ourselves that we keep to ourselves. They might include our fantasies and daydreams, feelings about the way the world works, and spiritual beliefs. Private matters, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, give another person some insight into the revealer.

Secrets, on the other hand, consist of information that has potentially negative impact on someone else-emotionally, physically, or financially. Secrets, when revealed either accidentally or purposefully, cause great chaos or harm to the secret-keeper and those around him or her.

Private: I believe in reincarnation.

Secret: I have a wife and a mistress and neither knows about the other.

Private: I got terrible grades in high school.

Secret: I forged my medical degree.

The Difference Between Truth and Honesty

Truth is empirical, demonstrable fact. Your bank balance, today?s date, whether or not you?re married.

Honesty is about feelings. If you?re honest, you are open and clear about how you feel. You can be truthful without being honest and you can be honest without being truthful (the latter a little more difficult). The best relationships, stating the painfully obvious, are both truthful and honest. Trust is built on both truth and honesty, tempered by the proof of predictability and reliability."

And then there's SH's own definition of an A, which someone quoted on this forum several months ago which said, in effect: "An affair is what your spouse thinks it is." Meaning, the above secrecy stuff. There are all "kinds" of affairs, but the bottom line is that no spouse should be keeping secrets from the other.

I hope this helps,
-Qfwfq

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by whippit:
Skip the forums for a while, read the Harley books (all of them ... they go fast) -- Dr. Phil has a couple worth checking out, too -- and the content at the main site. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please allow me to clarify:

Skip the forums for a while, read the Harley books (all of them ... they go fast) -- Dr. Phil has a couple worth checking out, too -- and the content at the main site. Then come back to the forums.

Lets just play a game. How do you think your wife would react if you kept bringing up a threesome.
You spend a couple of times a month with another woman and her husband by spending the night but constantly refuse to ever introduce them to your wife. You tell your wife that you would laugh if you ever saw them if you thought we were having sex. Oh, you also make it a point to not tell your wife their names, phone numbers or where they live.
My friend you would have to be in very deep denial to accept such bull from your wife. What happens if there is an emergency and you need to get hold of her. The chances are overwhelming that she is in an affair. What husband would allow his wife to spend overnights with a so-called married couple who you do not know by name or where they live is beyond me. She is playing you like a violin. I was like you and refused to believe the obvious like you so I understand where you are coming from. She has already got you to accept a "girls night out" that means an overnighter with a phantom husband and wife who you have no clue as to who they are while she talks about how great it would be to have a threesome. You are foolish to allow overnighters.
She is not acting like a married woman and you wish to be in denial. I wish you luck because you will need it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sweatinlove:
<strong>my fear is.everyone knows a woman knows HOW TO please another woman better than us guys.How would i stack up???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sorry but I am LMFAO. I just had to comment on this.

I am not a lesbian and I have NO idea how to make love to a woman! Every woman is different and My H knows how to please me, very well I might add . That is outrageous to say that!If I can stomach the thought long enough to even imagine another woman 'making love to me * vomit* I assure you I would probably spend the entire time giving directions to her on how to do it right .

Oh and I am with the general consencous here.. your wife is playing you for a FOOL. Like the previous poster said, jsut reverse the situation , that puts it all into perspective.

i wish you much luck.

sweat,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My wife has always had a fantasy about being with another woman,which is really a turn on for me.2 women WOW! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have a feeling that this little ménage à trois would not be so exciting to you if she suggested another man instead of a woman. Ya think?

After perusing your posts it appears that you have turned tail somewhat and are beginning to see the "red flags" as someone put it. Your W appears to be on a mission to fulfill some emotional needs via an extra-marital relationship.

She may have invited you into the bedroom in order to introduce you to her new found lover and never invite you in again. Because it is a woman, she might consider her lover an emotional need that you cannot fulfill rather than an affair.

How might she feel though, if you were to have homo-sexual desires that you needed to have fulfilled outside of the marriage?

Some needs, such as extra-marital sex are simply unrealistic to expect from a marriage unless both H and W are working off the same sheet of music. If it's good for one it's good for the other whether you choose to act on it or not. If that works for you then so be it. I won't EVEN get into the moral implications of something like that.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...she has mentioned it as a fantasy..im sure fueled by me making comments thruought the years when we have either watched xxx movie together or seen it on some movie,about how i thought the guy in the 3some,was a lucky guy,joking around,but still stating it... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is a little underlying truth in every joke. It sounds like both of you are fantasizing about a better sexual relationship, either with each other or someone else.

Try fantasizing "together" on what a good marriage would be like. Talk about what would make the marriage better for both of you. Sex is very high on the list of emotional needs for many couples. It is most often the topic of the day in the Emotional Needs forum. You might get some input there also.

jmho
tagging off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bryanp:
[QB]Lets just play a game. How do you think your wife would react if you kept bringing up a threesome.
You spend a couple of times a month with another woman and her husband by spending the night but constantly refuse to ever introduce them to your wife. You tell your wife that you would laugh if you ever saw them if you thought we were having sex. Oh, you also make it a point to not tell your wife their names, phone numbers or where they live.
===============================================
I Agree with this totally,if it were the other way around,i would be on my way to divorce court in a heartbeat.and i brought this scenrio up to her and asked her what she would think,she said that i was right,she would think the worst,so she has told me no more until i meet the other couple.so that makes me feel better.

Euphoria,i say that with the thought that sure men know how to please a woman,thats not a question,but how many times have you been having sex,and wish the guy could read your mind as to what u wanted him to do,or when and where to touch ect..woman ALREADY KNOW what they want,and lord knows on my drunkest night,world record marathon session,my wife could go much longer..woman are like the energizer bunnie.. fill in the blanks,i say it with some humor,but its still fact.
=================================================
ba109:
quote:
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...she has mentioned it as a fantasy..im sure fueled by me making comments thruought the years when we have either watched xxx movie together or seen it on some movie,about how i thought the guy in the 3some,was a lucky guy,joking around,but still stating it...
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There is a little underlying truth in every joke. It sounds like both of you are fantasizing about a better sexual relationship, either with each other or someone else.

Try fantasizing "together" on what a good marriage would be like. Talk about what would make the marriage better for both of you. Sex is very high on the list of emotional needs for many couples. It is most often the topic of the day in the Emotional Needs forum. You might get some input there also.

==================================================

This was something said jokingly 12 years ago,i havent showed ANY intrest in the thought since then,we were teenagers,been dating a year or so,sex was ALL we thought about,im saying she may still think i would like that,and maybe thinking the thought would excite ME to spice up our marriage,beleive me.i think its a very bad idea,i dont want to share my wife with anyone in the bedroom.

Thanks to all of your opinions and input,this board is awsome,helps me make it thru the day

<small>[ February 23, 2003, 02:34 PM: Message edited by: sweatinlove ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i brought this scenrio up to her and asked her what she would think,she said that i was right,she would think the worst,so she has told me no more until i meet the other couple.so that makes me feel better.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> 'no more' what? going away every weekend with 'them'?

No more spending the night with her girlfriend until i meet her and her husband,i told her if we were gonna be happy together again,i cannot have her leading a secret life,I.E. hanging out with someone i didnt know.she has agreed and will not until i meet them.she only stays over,or had been every other friday night.

sorry sweatinlove, but every woman is different. Knowing how to please someone comes from KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE with * that* individual. We are not cookie cutter cut here. I don't think I need to elaborate, but I can say that my tastes and desires differ greatly from that of my best freind. Just because you are of the equal sex doesn't mean you have the crystal ball of karma sutra.

point taken..

Hi Sweatin,
I don't normally respond much to the posts, but your certainly got my attention because my husband has been asking me about threesomes for a while now. Like you I put the question out on one of the boards to get some feedback. I truly agree with most of the responses that I received that it is a bad idea to bring a third person into your bedroom (man or woman). My sexual relationship with my husband has been so wonderful the past several months that it really kinda hurt when he suggested it. Like I wasn't enough or something. In our many conversations he asked me if I had or had thought about being with another woman at all or having two men, one of which would be him of course. Maybe the smart thing would have been to lie, but I didn't and I confessed that I had thought about what it would be like either way, but didn't think I could actually go through with it at all. BTW, watching an occasional porn film didn't help with this because from the ones I've seen at least, this thing happens a lot!! Anyway he hasn't totally given up on the idea yet, but he has quit asking so much. I don't know about you, but I know myself well enough to know that I would never be the same or feel the same about my husband if I actually was involved in or watching him have sex with another woman. I would from that point on wonder always wonder if I measured up.

miserableinpa how long have you guys been married?,and has this been something that has been mentioned while you guys were dating?..I agree with you,i wouldnt feel the same about me,my wife,or our relationship if we ever went thru with it,see the thing is,when my wife brought it up,she said that i wouldnt be allowed to kiss or have intercourse with the other woman,just with my wife.

So this is more for her i think than me.Also,this was brought up during a time when my wife was thinking about divorce because she felt i wasnt in love with her anymore,and that i was just around because of habit,so im thinking she was thinking it spice us back up..funny thing is,i havent talked about anything like this since i said "I DO"15 years ago..I think the way im gonna handle this is once we get back to being a "couple" which i pray is soon,i dont know how much longer i can take this one sided show of love,i will then tell her,im not interested in having anyone in the bedroom but her,and tell her fantasies are fine,as long as they stay fantasies..

She told me she loved me yesterday for the 1st time in 2 months,and she said it has taken her that long to say so..we have had times in the past where i was taking her for granted,and she voiced out,i changed,then fell back into my stupid ways..so she wants to make sure this isnt like the other times.I assured her,that it took THIS and all we have been thru to realize,i really LOVE her,and that im willing to change to keep her happy.

Tell your husband that u told him you thought about it only because u want him to be happy,and that this act would not make u happy.because in marriage,and relationships,the main goal is for both to be happy.Good Luck and thx for the response

<small>[ February 24, 2003, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: sweatinlove ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> No more spending the night with her girlfriend until i meet her and her husband </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMHO, I cannot imagine a married woman spending the night with a girlfriend unless this girlfriend lives hundreds of miles away and she is visiting. Every other Friday night would be outrageous to me.

I sure don't think that these sleepovers are all ghost stories and popcorn. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
I would bet that she has already participated in a threesome and she is now wanting you to participate. She has gotten a taste of it and it is to her liking.

As Always, JMHO
committed

I would see some truth in that if not us having problems,we were at the point of seperation/divorce..she wanted to seperate to give us time to think about us..then when i didnt like that and started fights.then she talked of divorce,thats when i reflected and decided to give her space sorta speaking.She works 6 nights a week since i am off work,and we have built our lifes on my old job where i made good money,now workmans comp pays crap compared..so we need the extra income.where before she didnt work,so she has a extra load.

she has every other weekend off.the friday she works,is a easy night,thats the night she spends with her friend,other friday night,is our night,we go out,saturday is family day,which was another thing i neglected,i got ina funk,and didnt want to go do anything,which we always used to do things.I know red flags are flying,but i have to go on hers and our past,and KNOW she wouldnt do this to me.I pray everyone here is wrong

sweatinlove,
My husband and I have been married for almost 14 years and dated for 3-1/2 years before that. We have 2 wonderful kids and a third due the end of March. We never talked about this at all until about maybe six months ago or so, and off and on since. Like you, we have certainly had our share of problems to the point that I filed for divorce about 3 years ago. Thankfully with lots of work, lots of support and lots of determination we were able to keep our family together and probably in the past 10 months or so have been even closer. It wasn't until he brought it up that I had even become the slightlest bit curious what it would be like, BUT we've talked about my fears and concerns of what it would do to our relationship and have decided that it will just remain a fantasy. I really hope that things work out for you and your wife. You sound like a very wise man that loves her very much and wants his marriage to work. Believe me when I tell you that it is possible. If anyone had told me 3 years ago that I would still be married to my husband I'd thought they were totally nuts, but it can happen. I think one of the most important things is to be totally honest with your wife about how you feel (which you seem to be doing anyway) and even though you have made mistakes in the past, sooner or later, she'll start to believe what she's actually seeing and believing that it's going to continue. I hope that helps even a little. Take care and keep posting, I hope it works out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sweatinlove:
... I know red flags are flying,but i have to go on hers and our past,and KNOW she wouldnt do this to me.I pray everyone here is wrong.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whippit: By a show of hands, who here at MB KNEW his or her spouse wouldn't be unfaithful to them?
*Everyone raises his or her hand.*

I don't mean to be flippant, because I understand what you're going through. I used the example only to illustrate the point that you're already making. In the same sentence you say you can't ignore what what you see and what your gut is telling you. On the other hand you're not ready to believe it. That's perfectly natural. We've all been in that spot.

Take a step back and try to remove emotion from the situation. Do some homework and some sniffing around. Learn how to ask your wife questions that are not threatening, yet will expose deception, as people who are lying have to create new lies to support the old lies. Inconsistencies are the norm with them.

You don't have to trust us ... only yourself. You will see in your own time what we here seem to see. Protect yourself.

And I hope we're wrong, too. It truly saddens me that each time I log on to MB I see the number of registered users increase. Happy they're here for help. Sad because they need it.

In any case, try and clear your head as best you can and move forward with strength.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by miserableinpa:
<strong>sweatinlove,
My husband and I have been married for almost 14 years and dated for 3-1/2 years before that. We have 2 wonderful kids and a third due the end of March. We never talked about this at all until about maybe six months ago or so, and off and on since. Like you, we have certainly had our share of problems to the point that I filed for divorce about 3 years ago. Thankfully with lots of work, lots of support and lots of determination we were able to keep our family together and probably in the past 10 months or so have been even closer. It wasn't until he brought it up that I had even become the slightlest bit curious what it would be like, BUT we've talked about my fears and concerns of what it would do to our relationship and have decided that it will just remain a fantasy. I really hope that things work out for you and your wife. You sound like a very wise man that loves her very much and wants his marriage to work. Believe me when I tell you that it is possible. If anyone had told me 3 years ago that I would still be married to my husband I'd thought they were totally nuts, but it can happen. I think one of the most important things is to be totally honest with your wife about how you feel (which you seem to be doing anyway) and even though you have made mistakes in the past, sooner or later, she'll start to believe what she's actually seeing and believing that it's going to continue. I hope that helps even a little. Take care and keep posting, I hope it works out.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AWSOME. I really like hearing stories like that,being near the edge,and not jumping if i might say so.i hope i have the same kind of luck with my situation.God bless your unborn child.

Sweatinlove,

Wow, this brings back memories for me. My FWH used to mention 3somes too. And, interestingly enough the person he mentioned the most happens to have been the OW. I just didn't know it at the time.

The other person he mentioned was our next door neighbor, who I was very uncomfortable with because she kept throwing herself at my H.

Neighbor ended up moving her family, then 2 months later telling her H she wanted a divorce.

If the subject comes up (and I seriously doubt it will) it would be a HUGE red flag for me! CSue

The more I read your story the more probable your wife is into some deep affair with a couple or another person. What husband would have allowed his wife to spend overnighters every other Friday with a so-called couple who you were never allowed to meet or know their names or where they live. I am really surprised you never had her followed to see where she was going.

After all of the times you asked her and she refused to tell you about them is a pretty obvious sigh that you have been duped. It is interesting that she now says she will not go over to them again until you are introduced to them some time in the immediate future. My friend if she was not hiding something she would have driven you down to meet them immediately when you asked.
I am guessing she is cooling down the affair momentarily while she tries to find some friends to pose as the couple to ease your mind and then immediately continue her overnighters with another couple or a friend. I would strongly urge you the first time she resumes her overnighters to have her followed and see where she really ends up. I doubt most husbands or wifes would have accepted the disrespect and overnighters by their spouse that you have. Face it if she had nothing to hide you would have met these people immediately. It is so obvious she is playing you.
Again have her followed and you will see where she is really going. There are have been other stories of spouses who enjoy secret lives. I am just surprised that you have felt comfortable not knowing where your wife is and where she is staying and with whom on a weekend. What is wrong with this picture?

Im NOT compfy with it,thats why we have had a few fights over this.The thing is,and i dont know if i posted it in my ealier post (original post http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=014316 )

Originaly we were seperated in the same house for our kids sake.So she was spending time away from me while kids were asleep or at school.Thats seperation..I found out from her that she had a "new" friend actually someone she knew before we met,and ran into her at the mall.The 1st time she called and said she was staying at her house,i blew up..telling her i didnt want her staying overnight with someone i didnt know.

She said "we are seperated"i dont have to answer to you.We have had 3 fights over this.Now she says since it bothers me this much,she will not go again till i meet them.Problem is the friend owns her own bussiness,and is busy all the time,and from what wife tells me,they live in a pretty run down home,and is embarrassed to let me come there.So they will come to our house.

I KNOW another red flag

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bryanp:

What husband would have allowed his wife to spend overnighters every other Friday with a so-called couple who you were never allowed to meet or know their names or where they live. I am really surprised you never had her followed to see where she was going.
========================================================

One that loves and trust his wife

You are not out of the woods just yet.

BryanP is correct when he told you that if the moment comes when she restarts her overnighters, follow her or have her followed to confirm one way or another if she is involved in an A.

It's bad enough when a loved one deceives us, but it is worse when we do it to ourselves.

Clearly you love your wife very much and I am not disputing this at all. Your last message floored me. Now the other couple own their own business but live in a poor area and are too embarrassed to have you visitors so they will visit you instead.
You really can't be serious about accepting this
are you? I guess that means you will never know where these people live or have their address or phone number when your wife stays overnight. I am sure that these people are hand picked. Why do you not have a pot luck and bring food to their place? It defeats the entire purpose if you are not allowed to see where you wife is going. I wish you luck but do you really think if the roles were reversed you wife would accept this story? If you not allowed to see where these people live then I think you know this whole story is bogus. I feel for you and I hope for the best for you but I think you should prepare for the worst. What a story.

Smoke to the left, mirrors to the right.

Bryan makes sense,i thought same thing when she said she was embarrassed of her home,yet she lets my wife stay over..yes she owns her own bussiness,but its a small bar,that her dad left to her,and is in debt with it ATM,her husband is in bodyshop work.Some people dont manage there money well,maybe they have lived in this house for awhile,and just started having good fortune with there jobs.

That i dont know,wife did say that they were looking to move,so maybe they have begun to make more money.I know she drives a POS car,and her husband drives a wreck as well.My wife has all the finer things in life,new home in a awsome neighborhood,new suburban,something she has always wanted.Why would she go have an affair with a couple which lives ina run down home,and dont have a pot to piss in? When she i know has had offers in the past from guys who have twice the money and things i can offer..Sometimes it doesnt make sense,then again,my wife doesnt have any friends to speak of,and she found an old friend.

Someone she can talk to about me and her,get a nuetral opinion,and take a break from us so that she can work on her feelings about us instead of being in the house with me.She had her chances to leave,her mother already told her and me that if she needed to get out,she would help (her parents are loaded)..but she chose to stay in the house and try and work it out,on a trial seperation in the same house for the kids..

Until i get hardcore proof,ill have to beleive her.But the overnighters will not continue until i meet them,see where they live,and have phone numbers,if it causes a huge fight to the point of us not continuing to work on our relationship,then yes,i say she is hiding something,at that point,i need to count my losses and move on,as much as it would hurt,cant hurt more than someone you love cheating on you.

This board rules,and i appreciate all of your opinions,altho some are NOT what i want to hear hehe

I really do wish you luck. It sounds like you are taking a proactive stance and I am glad to hear it.
It sounds like you have this under control. I do hope everything she says to you is true. Many of us on this board were played by our spouses and see a lot of it in your story so it is natural that we wish to protect everyone else from the hurt and the pain.
It really does sound like you have a handle on it.
I again wish you luck.

sweatin,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This board rules,and i appreciate all of your opinions,altho some are NOT what i want to hear hehe
sweatin,

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gawd, where have I heard that before? There is something Harley refers to as "the fog". I don't think that the fog afflicts every WS as many would tend to believe. I also think that the BS can be afflicted with a form of this phenomenon otherwise referred to as denial.

I admire the trust that you have in your W and her possibly innocent lifestyle outside of the marriage and your knowledge. Just one bit of caution...Beware, the fog! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

jmho
tagging off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I too am glad that you seem to have woken up and smelled the coffee <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and like everybody else, wish that your W is telling you the absolute truth.

SweetInLove,
I've read this thread as well as your original post. First let me say I feel for you, and I know where you are right now. As far as the 3-some goes, DON'T DO IT. That was how my wife and I started out about 5-6 years ago. I can tell you it will escalate to a point of destruction.

Now, on believing your wife, don't. If you haven't done so already read WAT's guidelines for betrayed spouses. It is a thread with A LOT of information on what you should/shouldn't believe and do. Trust your gut. What does your gut say? Try not to listen to your brain (I know that's hard to do) listen to what your gut tells you.

Much of what your wife is telling you now parallels what my wife has been telling me for nearly 3 months now. That's when I found out that our "Open Relationship" destroyed our marriage; she fell in love with my best friend who was also one of our "partners".

In my case my wife wouldn't tell me everything because she didn't want to hurt me. She still has feelings for me and hurting me goes against those feelings. In her own words she distorts the truth or keeps certain things from me (she doesn't call it lying) out of "necessity" so she won't hurt me.

I strongly agree with previous posters who advise you to follow her, or have her followed. This is how I discovered my wife was visiting the OM and not telling me. If your not up on tailing techniques I suggest getting a friend, or at least borrowing someone elses car. A PI is another option, but your looking at around $55 per hour depending on who you hire. That can get pretty pricey pretty quick.

Be strong for your children, read everything you can get your hands on here and start working on a Plan A if you haven't already. Some other things you can do is get a hold of cell phone records, tap phones, etc. Good luck.

I have read all of these posts and sweatinlove you are getting really good advice. Now listen to someone who has been there. YOU DO NOT WANT THIS 3SOME. 24 YEARS AGO-- In the first few years of our relationship, my wife and I "experimented" in this way. Neither one of us were Christians, we both did drugs, and hung out with a good looking guy that always hit on my wife. Ultimately, the 3 of us ended up alone together, things developed, and she had sex with both of us. She loved it (at least we thought so)! But next day we were both very guilty. But the situation kept coming up and we ended up having 3somes with this guy at least 10 times. Then this guy started coming over when I wasn't around. At first my W (GF then) refused, but ultimately gave in on more than one occasion.

End of the story. That episode haunted our life for YEARS!!! I always felt other guy was better lover than me. My W always felt I disrespected her by "sharing" her with him. Guy felt used by both of us. To this day, we cannot face this man (he is now part of my family!!!!)

This is a VERY DANGEROUS ROAD!!! STAY OFF IT.

TM94,thats my main fear when the thougnt comes up.destroying our relationship.so thats why i was against it from the onset,fantasies are fine,but when you try and make them reality,im afraid things get out of hand.Im sorry you had this happen to you,but it seems everyone here who has responded with there accounts of a 3some,it was with there wife and another MAN.

There is NO WAY i would even consider having another man sleep with my wife,the idea was for her to live her fantasy with another woman,and me.me not being able to touch OW,but my wife having me,and another woman touching her,and making love to her at the same time.

As far as my gut goes,it tells me that something is up,she tells me otherwise.This woman whom i loved and trusted for 17 years tells me something,you think i have to beleive her.All the things i have EVER done wrong to her doesnt warrant an affair by any means in my mind anyway.

I know woman think diffrent than guys,men have an affair because some woman offers themselfs to them,Like Chris Rock said in one of his concerts,a man is as faithfull as his oportunities,a woman on the other hand has been offered d**k since they were 16,when a man is nice to a woamn,he is really offering d**k haha..

I have cell phone records,and there are 2 numbers being called alot by her,altho not listed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ( i contacted a PI and am waiting on cost ect..My fear is simply this,what if i follow thru with this,have her followed,bug cell phone calls (is this possible?) ect..and it turns out that she has been telling truth,and she finds out,there goes trust out the door from me.

No doubt that would be the end of us,i would hate to loose her to something like that,as far as plan A..since jan 2nd when this all came out that she wasnt happy,i have done everything in my powers to show her i really care,and will change,actions speak louder than words,i give all my time to her and the kids,buy her cards and flowers.Valentines day took her to the casinos for the weekend,and bought her this diamond ring she has been admiring for sometime.

If thats a plan A.then im there..seems to be working as she spends more time with me,talking ect..like i said,she told me the other day she loved me for the 1st time since xmas.asked me please to give her more time.

Should i now come out and make demands? I.E. TAKE me to her house NOW..and "I feel like a dog on a leash,trying to win your love with really no big responses from you,and its making me tired,and starting to deminish my feelings for you..making me feel like the inferior mate in this relationship,where i always was the ROCK in our relationship"

Or continue like this,and have her followed..tap phone,and continue to drown her with kidness??

SIL,
My wife and I had 3somes with men and women. Read about Plan A here, it's a plan for YOU not necessarily for your marriage. The benefits are there and it will help your relationship, but it's about life long commitments to YOU. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong)

If your gut tells you somethings up, then something is up. Yes, it is possible to "bug" a cell phone, but it's VERY expensive. If you do all of these "self educating" things your talking about (bugging, following, etc) and nothing comes of it then you will have the peace of mind that your wife was telling you the truth. If you do something then it will confirm what you already know in your gut; she is not telling you the truth.

Ultimately it is your decision. But, I will tell you this. My "gut" has never been wrong, but my brain has been wrong 80-90% of the time. Shop around for a PI, prices vary greatly. If you want to contact me let me know, depending on where you are I may know someone within a network.

Good luck to you, and I'm sorry you have to go through this.

Let me give you a reply from one who has experience with this. My story can be found here

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=002414

If you do this, be prepared to:
Lose 30 pounds in a month (which I lost)
go on anti-depressants
be miserable a lot
Do a lot of worrying
Accept that your life will change forever and you can't do the things you have taken for granted.

I accepted my wife's lover into our house and although things have been going good and my wife loves me more than ever now, things have changed. It's hard for me to have sex when I want, or do the things I used to do without thinking about them.
Things are going good because I was determined to have a happy-go-lucky attitude and make it work. For the most part it has, but things I have to get used to are his snoring and other habits. Now the kids are beginning to resent him. It's only been a little over a month so far, so it's too early to tell.
But I can tell you this -- if you savor your marriage, don't do it, leave it as a fantasy.
Biggest mistake I made in my life was going to a swinger's club. I allowed it or my wife would still be loyal to only me. Now I share, and although I have programmed my mind to accept it, it's hard, especially on the days I forget to take my Zoloft.

green I just read your post on the the other thread, and don't tell me you let your wifes LOVER move in with you!!! That is SICK SICK SICK .I feel so sorry for your children.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by green56:
<strong>Let me give you a reply from one who has experience with this. My story can be found here

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=29;t=002414

If you do this, be prepared to:
Lose 30 pounds in a month (which I lost)
go on anti-depressants
be miserable a lot
Do a lot of worrying
Accept that your life will change forever and you can't do the things you have taken for granted.

I accepted my wife's lover into our house and although things have been going good and my wife loves me more than ever now, things have changed. It's hard for me to have sex when I want, or do the things I used to do without thinking about them.
Things are going good because I was determined to have a happy-go-lucky attitude and make it work. For the most part it has, but things I have to get used to are his snoring and other habits. Now the kids are beginning to resent him. It's only been a little over a month so far, so it's too early to tell.
But I can tell you this -- if you savor your marriage, don't do it, leave it as a fantasy.
Biggest mistake I made in my life was going to a swinger's club. I allowed it or my wife would still be loyal to only me. Now I share, and although I have programmed my mind to accept it, it's hard, especially on the days I forget to take my Zoloft.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nothing personal,but i wouldnt do that if someone had a gun to my head.If i were to try the THREESOME..not FOURSOME,and my wife wanted to leave me for the OW not OM i would say GOODBYE,and have a nice life.Bud you need counsling,if your letting your wifes lover live in your house with your kids,and sleeping in same bed,and supporting him.OMFG..i hope THIS crazy post doesnt overshadow MY problems,as i have been getting great opinions and advice..