</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Any Time Now...:
<strong>1. Do I give her the questionaire? DO I give her mine filled out at the same time?

2. I am almost finshed reading "How to Survive an Affair" by Harley. Should I give it to her and ask her to read if she chooses? Or after things are farher along? Remember she has not told me it was a sexual affair. She said she started to have feelings for him and thats all. Yet she told her parents she'd be with him after the divorce. I think if I give it to her and say that I read it and saw part of us in there? I do not know...What do you guys think? Do not be easy on me?

3. What else can I do or better yet am I doing anything wrong?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The short answer to 1 and 2 is "maybe" and "no."

I'll offer a more detailed answer to 3 first:

It looks like we pulled you back from the brink of destruction to get you to be "nice" - her word. We'll pat our selves on the back for that, recognizing that your reactions were well inside the BS ballpark for "uninformed" BSs. Now, after having almost finished SAA, you're a lot smarter, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> A lot of that wasn't obvious at first, was it? But thinking about it, it makes a lot of sense, right? Congrats, you're normal!

Anyway, the only caution I'll offer in the "wrong" department is to slow down. You cannot rush this. Time is on your side. (Right, mimi?)

Now to 1 and 2.

I recommend you chill on the questionaires and let your "niceness" soak in for awhile. Repitition is vital here. It's very common for WSs to react to "niceness" or the "180" (in Divorce Busters language) with skepticism. You HAVE to be consistent and patient. I'll bet you a cold beer that she asks, "Why couldn't you be nice earlier?" or words to that effect. "NOW you're doing it only because you're afraid that you'll lose me." Your response should be: "I didn't realize I was harming our marriage. Now I see that I was short sighted and selfish. I wasn't showing you the love you deserve. I am committed to improving."

Get it?

So, feel your way on the questionaires. You made the offer and she didn't reject it wholesale, but don't push it. I suggest you be "nice" for awhile longer, then guage her receptiveness and when it feels right, offer her the questionaire and your completed one. But don't press her to complete hers. Be "nice" for another while and see if she brings it up. Remember the answer to question 3: go slow.

The conventional wisdom is that a BS cannot "educate" a WS until the WS is darn willing to be a student. Yours isn't there yet. "Teaching" an unreceptive student is met with resistence and worse, rejection of the lesson. Don't go there now.

With this in mind, I recommend you NOT offer her SAA. She is not ready for self criticism and SAA requires this.

Finally, forget about the distinction of whether the affair was physical or not. I know this is hard. But accept this - the emotional aspects are FAR worse for recovery from the WS's standpoint. An affair that was emotional only is FAR worse than one that was sexual only. Assume it was sexual. I'll bet another beer that it was. But your responses should be identical regardless. There is no separate Plan A for emotional vs. physical affairs. One size fits all. The only thing you can do is address YOUR contributions to the poor state of the marriage that created the fertile ground for your wife to make a poor decision. Find 'em and fix 'em. The affair will very likely end. To hasten its end, do not interfere with it.

OK?

WAT

WAT.....THANKS...Words can not explain how you and Melody have helped me and I will continue to ask you for support. Did you read my post before this one about gift?

What do you think?

AnyTime,

I would not give her that gift right now. She is still wary of you and an overly dramatic gesture of gratitude is going to make her MORE WARY. She is learning to trust you right now so take your time with her. Giving her the gift might make her feel obligated to show gratitude and that will make her feel manipulated. Just be cool and play it slow. Keep being nice and think of good ways to defuse her argumentive statements.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Any Time Now...:
<strong>

After a few she asked me if there were any clothing itmes I needed (she for some reason is worried about how much clothing I have....find that odd) I indincated to her I could use a few more dress shirts and we went upsatirs into the bedroom. I asked her I could try some on (I have lost 35 lbs since she has filed ~2 months) so I began to try shirts on that before did not fit me. If they fit, i threw them on the bed (I figured Id put in a bag or something) but she asked me if she could put them back on a hanger for me....I said sure but again found it odd she was concerned about wrinkly shirts....Am I looking into this too much????

.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">hmm, she wanted to look after you. This is good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I compiled a few things I did myself and some other PLAN aA letters to come up with this. Do you think I should give to her so she knows where I stand. I have told her some of this just not as deep.

I removed.....JIC she is hear reading.....I will probably give to her next week....

<small>[ February 25, 2003, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: Any Time Now... ]</small>

^BUMP^

AnyTime,

I think it is a great letter, I am just not sure that now is the time to send it. I am hoping that WAT will weigh in here. I am almost afraid that it will push her away at this point, whereas, if you waited a few weeks to consistently DEMONSTRATE your committment to change, she might be more receptive to it. I just don't know and hope others comment so we can have a discussion on it.

I feel the same just wanted your opinion. I have to go and drop off a check for CS and few other items I promised her including the Questionaire. I will wait and give to her later.

I called my wife around 7:00 and said I'd be over in an hour and would leave the stuff on porch, she said great and then I was writing my last post @ 7:30 and my cell phone had a missed call. Checked the Caller ID and low and behold "HOME". Called back and my W answered and said she was just checking when I was coming cause she said I could give son a bath but by the time I called he was just about finished. I said thanks, sorry I called back to late but appreciate the offer.

I then drove to the house and dropped the stuff off. I put a note with the questionaire saying what melody kinda said and also asked her not to look at mine until she completedd hers. And then put a <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

Well she just called and in a funny charming voice said she wouldnt cheat and would fill out hers first.

I think this is great.

Melody, WAT and Qfwfq what do you guys think.

She did not have to offer the bath thing...espcialy with it being late...Do you think this may mean she wanted to see me? Or at least enjoyed this morning.

<small>[ February 23, 2003, 08:08 PM: Message edited by: Any Time Now... ]</small>

Very nice! Sounds like she is starting to respond. You are doing very good! Just remember, sloooooooooooooooooooooow and easy.

Good work. I agree with Mel on holding off on the Plan A letter for now. Let's see what comes of her trend toward receptiveness. I can't emphasize enough that you need to take it slow. In the best scenario, you won't need that letter and can show it to her later.

Patience, time, consistency.

Reinforce your "new" behavior. This has to be permanent in you. She needs to be convinced that you're sincere. You know you are, we know you are, but she is skeptical.

Let me acknowledge right here that YOU have WAY more reason to be skeptical of her. She is the one in LaLa Land. She is the one who decided to have an affair. But hopefully you understand by now that she justified her decision based largely on your behavior. So you have to eliminate those justifications. This was building for a long time - you can't undo it all in a few days. Hence, patience, time, consistency. You have to PROVE your improvements over and over and over.

OK?

WAT

Couple of things, first the bad news. I got online this morning to look at our phone bill and saw she was still calling him after she said she wasnt (even right after major discussions from our own phone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ) I know, I know she is in the fog. Does it matter if he is still seeing her. I mean my comments from last nite above show you "pros" that she is responding....RIGHT....or is she just being receptive because of the kids and realy has no more interest in me. I mean she even said yesterday she could sign my Decree and this could be all over...Why would she say that.....to throw me off and try to get me to argue with her.....oh these emotions are killing me.....

Also what can I do to help me with he "thoughts" of them being together. Some days I fine others I am horrible even though my Doctor gave me EFFLEX <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> to help me.

What other things can I do without over doing it to show her the new me?

Explain to me how even thought they could still be togther how what I am doing will change her? I mean he is still depositing points right????Every time they have sex <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ? How, even though my gut says that is not one of her top emotions that need to be met, is he still meeting her other emotions.

Does she worry about thier future together? I mean lets face it, if they were to be toghether after the divorce, her parents already told me he is not welcomed in thier home, I am sure cause he is married thiers is saying the same??? She would have to deal with me the rest of her life, cause of the kids, better yet.....why would she give up the family that cheerishs her to death....I mean she has cried thinking that she would never be able to see my dad and my son not palying togehter..

I am just ramblin....

Anyway any help would be great!

<small>[ February 24, 2003, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: Any Time Now... ]</small>

"OM is married" - suggest you inform his wife. Pretty good chance that he is just keeping your W as a mistress and OM's W will know nothing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Any Time Now...:
<strong>Explain to me how even thought they could still be togther how what I am doing will change her?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nothing you are doing is intended to change her. It's intended to change YOU and it's working. All you can change in her mind is her perception of you. Nothing else. Even this requires her to WANT to change her perception of you.

OF COURSE she's still communicating with him even after she said she wasn't. She's playing the role exactly as we expect her to.

But so are you.

You're trying to process her behavior logically. Go back and re-read Rule 1. None of what she's doing makes sense to you because IT SHOULDN'T!!!

Keep doing what you're doing except STOP trying to make sense out of her actions.

Also, what have you considered in contacting OM or OM's W? You have to assume that your W has told OM that you are in favor of divorce and you're not interested in working on the marriage or keeping your family together. You also have to assume OM has told your wife the same story about his marriage. They lie to each other as much as they lie to their spouses.

WAT

I owuld love to do that but, All I know is His name, where he works, his cell number (works). I have done a Background Check on him and ended up calling and thought I was talking to his wife.....Ended up being his MOM. He is a JR. How can I find out his wifes name, or better yet where they live?

I have contacted OM but he just said that he respected our marriage and he was happliy married....blah...blah....BTW is that a LB to my wife if I call him again.....

<small>[ February 24, 2003, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: Any Time Now... ]</small>

If I do call him again what can I say?

What about the phone book? I would call his wife first and let her know that something is going on and that you have even seperated over it. Give her dates and times of phone calls. After you do that, we can discuss what to say to the OM.

Not listed. I do not even know her name. Any sneaky way of getting it.

I'm just butting in to reassure you that you are in the best of hands here. Mel, WAT, Espoir, MTHR, Pepperband, RedHat and others were my lifesavers. They really pulled me through and were there for me when I was in your position. I tried to do everthing they said and I believed in them. Things have worked out for me so far. My WS has already called me 3 times this morning just to chat and I thought my situation was hopeless and my marriage was surely over.

Don't give up hope!!!!

God Bless!!!

P.S. I found out info. by using a Private Investigator. They have sources at phone companies, driver's license bureaus, etc. Of course, it's vital that your WS does not find out about this. For me, knowledge was power.

<small>[ February 24, 2003, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

I can not say where OM and W work but can say that what he does he can come incontact with W. I will say that his job found out he could be in alot of trouble. Let just just say Internal Affairs. I could call up state and indicate he has been interefering with my marriage while I am trying to reconcile with my wife. Put pressure on him that way. I know that his "bosses" would not approve, it is looked against. Also indicate he could be doing this on "State" time.

<small>[ February 24, 2003, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Any Time Now... ]</small>