Called OM. Said to him, thought we had an agreement that you would not talk to my wife. He indicated that the field they were in the would somehow have contact. He denied everything I threw at him. [censored] even wished me luck. Said he had no clue we were D or even that I was out of house. For some odd reason I believed him on some things. I do not know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> He said he has not talked to her in a few weeks. Which is about the last time I can prove it. He kept telling me there was nothing to worry about and that he talks to her on a professional level as well as hey how ya doing.

Anyway after I talked to him I Called her to suggest a meal for tommorrow and she said the more she thought about it she did not want me in the house <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I said what caused this, and she said she was thinking last nite and if we got into a argument she wanted to be able to leave. I said ok, but when I was over Sunday it was pleasant...right? we did not argue....She indicated yes so I said there should be no worries then. She said she does not want to have to call the cops, I of course laughed and said do not worry...She got another phone call and said she had to go...I said are we still on and she said yes.

Now....Did he call her? Im 50/50 but she could have been alot meaner <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> but she was somewhat calm.

By him possibly telling her, that would not be a LB, would it? I mean Tough [censored], right.

<small>[ February 25, 2003, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Any Time Now... ]</small>

ATN:

He may have called her, or he may not have. Trying to figure out whether it's because of this that your W was distant over the phone will make you crazy. As does conversations like that with the OM.

You've begun building a solid foundation of consistent loving behavior with your W - a good start at plan A. THIS is what you should continue to focus on from now on. I know how hard it is to "forget about the OM", because I've been pretty unsuccessful for most of the past 13 months since D-day, but the more you get him out of your thoughts and focus on being the best you that you can be, the better and more frequent these upbeat convos and dinner parties will be with your W.

The ILY thing is pretty typical. She's confused, and would like to believe that you only are saying it to manipulate her. My W seems to feel the same way toward me. Either that, or she doesn't know what love really is, maybe both. Only you can find the "happy medium" between informing her honestly of your feelings for her and applying pressure on her to reciprocate before she's ready to. A delicate balance, but one that I believe you're doing a pretty good job at for such a fresh start!

Take care,
-ol' Qfwfq

OK, don't call OM anymore. You've made your statement and there is nothing more you can accomplish with him. I can't remember, is he married? It may be worth it to contact his wife.

ATN, you're trying too hard to figure out the meaning of everything she does. This is an impossible, futile pursuit. Don't frustrate yourself.

Get back on track. FORGET about OM - he is only a symptom of the real problem. Concentrate on your Plan A improvements and demonstrating them to your wife.

Because of this episode with OM (he may have called her afterwards to complain about "your crazy, dangerous husband") I recommend you definitely hold off with the letter for a week or so. Yes, you set yourself back a bit. Assuming he called her, this was an LB which may be why she suddenly got cool and defensive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Don't fret too much - all BSs LB. Let it chill. Be on your best non-LB behavior for dinner and DO NOT mention any thing about OM, the divorce, your relationship, nuttin. OK? Nada, zip, zero, zilch. Just be with your family and kiss her a$$.

Got it?

WAT

See? Ole Qdog and I were telling you the same thing at the same time. This is no coincidence.

I suggest you browse around this forum and read others' posts and the responses. You will see yourself in them. Learn, learn, learn.

WAT

ATN:

Yep, ol' WAThound knows his stuff! But we learned it through experience, awful though it was at times. Posting here helps a LOT, as does trying to offer your perspective from what you've learned on others' threads.

Try it. Part of why you want to do this is to take your mind a little off your own troubles. Part of it is to show yourself that you really CAN be helpful to people suffering from infidelity. And, if you're anything like me, you've already learned more about human interactions and relationships in the last few weeks than in all your previous years combined. Think about it: You're not only learning how to be a better person and H, you're learning how to be helpful to others in similar situations. (and what goes around, comes around in a positive way in this arena).

-ol' Qfwfq

OLE WATHOUND??? ROFL!!

AnyTime,

Did you perchance say anything to dirtbag like "if I catch you talking to my wife again, I will ruin your freaking career??" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just curious.

Anyway, I think he probably DID call her afterwards, but that changes NOTHING. Except that you try harder from here on out to be NICE and CONSISTENT. That is your new middle name. You are doing real good; just keep on the path.

I'm reminded of what Steve H. told me about what causes couples to be in love: your past together, current caring behaviors and belief in a future together. They need to know that you are genuine in your PLAN A behaviors in order to convince themselves that there can be a future, that we will not turn back into the person we were before. Just like WAT indicated, my WS said the same things as your wife. It's the WS script. He did not believe my changes would last. Now he tells me that my PLAN A changes really mattered. He could not continue to justify his A to himself.

Keep doing your PLAN!

<small>[ February 25, 2003, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Thanks to all since my last post. You guys are definitly my support.

I called to talk to my kids and my wife answeres and says that they are playin outside. I ask her about dinner and she back to the "I dont know" phase where she does not trust me and says why do I have to be there (meaning her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) and I said it would be nice if you where there also but I you do not want to be then thats ok (my tongue is bleeding by now). I asked her if there wa a reason for her being mean to me, I asked if I did something that caused this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . She said no not at all she is just unsure. I left it at that and said I'd call her tommorrow to see if dinner is still on.

Couple of things.
1. Bought "Love Busters" today. Is it as good as SAA.
2. It is real hard not to think about "them" being together.
3. With me LB'ing her today with the posibility of OM calling W. How far did I fall, if at all.
4. Can you pros explain to me again how PLAN A can be done with OM still in pic. I mean serioulsy if they are still talking they probably still f-ing and how is this going to help me. If he called her right away they relationship is probably pretty strong. (need a pep talk her guys) ...Im startin to feel whoozzzy)
5. Can I deposit enough points in her bank to steal her away from him.

BTW when talking with Dikhd today I ask if was getting a divorce and his response....NOT YET. WTF does tha mean....Is my wife a mistress? Oh lord help me.

HELP!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ February 25, 2003, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: Any Time Now... ]</small>

^BUMP^

AnyTime,

Don't get upset at this small setback. It is to be expected. We knew it would take a while to get her to believe your changes and she is only reacting as expected. Just don't push and don't love bust. Your response WAS GREAT! Just go slow.

Just because the OM called her after your call DOES NOT MEAN they are sleeping together. You can't make that leap there. Even if it were true, it makes no difference. I realize it makes a difference in your pain, but it can't make a difference in your actions. You knew something was going on and that is the entire point of Plan A: to negotiate the end of the affair by ATTRACTING her back to you. Once you have her attention, THEN you can begin discussing your future and an ending to the affair.

One big problem you are facing is that she works with the OM. That will be a definite impediment to any recovery and will be something you will have to address if you reconcile.

Anytime:

I'm sure the Sr. Members will be writing in soon to give you advice.

I want to let you know that there's lots of hope for you. I was just where you are a few weeks ago.

PLAN A continues to work when they are having contact. It's the phase during which you negotiate with your WS to end contact. Do not worry about the OM or what they are doing with each other, including F@#$king. The sex is not necessarily that good. The relationship is probably not about sex anyway. Remember the key is meeting your WW's emotional needs. I focused on what I COULD DO because I came to realize that I only had CONTROL OVER MYSELF . I still continue to work My PLAN and I try to keep MY PLAN as strong as possible. Given that I am a perfectionist, my goal has been to try to meet ALL of my husband's ENs. SAA and HNHN, the Harley books, promise that if we do this our WSes will fall in love with us again. I feel that has happened for me.

Don't give up although you have LBed. I always was able to recover. WSes have short memories when they are in the FOG. Also remember that the OP does not know about MB so he will be LBing too.

We just have to accept that they will be in contact. They were in contact before D-Day so now is really not any different. Actually its better because we are doing our part to make our marriage better.

Keep in mind, like everybody kept telling me, the A will burn out. It is not TRUE LOVE or anything like that. It is an ADDICTION, a SICKNESS, like alcoholism.

Try to build your confidence by focusing on yourself. That will make you more attractive to her and will make you feel better. It takes time and patience. You've heard that before, right? I know it is difficult but you can do it. I'm routing for you!

Thanks...for your guys advise...

Just out of curiosity....how is he LBing her? What are some of the things they encounter to LB?

AnyTime,

We don't know HOW he will lovebust her or even if he will. But the chances are good that he will when she starts pulling away from him towards you. That is usually when the trouble begins and the OM/OW starts to get suspicious and make demands. These relationships aren't usually stable to begin with.

Should I maybe say we should do dinner another time and just leave it at that. I know its kinda testing her but I do not want to go over there with her having a mean spirit before I walk into door. Maybe just drop her a card in mailbox and call her and say some other time. Thats not a love buster is it? Or call her and see if she wants me to still come over. If she says no, than I probably could deposit some more points by not arguing? Yes..NO?

THe Love Must Be Tough technique advocated by Dobson along with PLAN A really ended up working for me. My WS is ATTRACTED by my confidence; even today, he said I like it that you are taking care of yourself and not relying on me to take care of you.

Using this approach, you would say "I want to have dinner with you when you want to be with ME." No begging or pleading!!!

Just a tip you might want to try that worked for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well. She called me and said she was uncofortable with me coming over (again all I did was cut up her panties that I bought for her for xmas and punched a hole in a celing tile, and this is just when I found out about OM) so it is not like I am pyscho or anyhting...anyway I kinda said lets just forget about this whole thing and I pick up kids on weekend and when your ready to be with me and not feel that way....we can do it then.....she very rudely said fine and we hung up....I ended up thinking of you guys and called her back 10-15 minutes later and said that I did not want to pass up a chance with being with YOU and the KIDS and it was important to ME. She kinda just listened....an she said ok....

So I am going and we are meeting somewhere for dinner. She did ask me to go with her to pick out something for my youngest, but I have declined at this time (may change my mind in a few) to go with her only cause she might want me to pay for it even thought she said she wouldnt have me pay for it.....

Confused on wether I should go or not....

OK, this post (below ******) was made before I saw you post just above. Yes, join her ANYTIME it's for the kids. Pay for it!!! Insist that you pay for it!!!
************
You got good stuff from Mel and mimi.

Be cool, back off, be confident.

Her hot and cold reception to dinner is not surprising. Expect more of the same. She probably waffles WAY more than you can see. As you read other posts, pay attention to what's described as "fence sitting." This is what she's doing, I bet. mimi - tell him all about it!

Here's the way a conversation can go with her:

You: Well, what about dinner? I'm ready to spend some casual, no-strings-attached time with you.

Her: I'm not so sure. You might not treat me right.

You: All I can give you is my assurance that I want to restore our marriage. If that's what I want, it makes no sense that I would treat you like any less than a Queen.

Her: I'm still not sure.

You: OK, maybe some other time, I'm ready whenever you are, just let me know!

That leaves the ball in her court and presents you as reasonable, "nice" and not pushy. Better yet, it may leave her wondering if what she's hearing is for real. Make it so.

WAT

<small>[ February 26, 2003, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Im off to dinner/store.....wish me luck <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I post what happen in a few hrs.

OK...Dinner went fine. She tried to stab me a few times, but kept my balance and bit my tongue (it is really black and blue).

I told her she looked good and also said as much as it hurts for me not to be around kids daily she is doing a great job raising them. (I think that added a few points alone).

After dinner we went to store and even there had a good time. I told her if the kids needed anything lets get it and it is on me.

I told her as we where leaving that I value our marriage and I am commited on working it out and I can only treat her like a queen and that I value any time spent with her. (more pionts)???

ANyway said out goodbyes and I went home. Just as I got home ~154 miniute she called me on my cell phone to tell me something that she realy did not need to call right away for....she said she just remembered and wanted to tell me. (it was something about a friend of mine) totaly unnecessary but she called <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Isn't it amazing how well MB techniques work?

Hang it there!!!!