Don't be forcing these things on your wife. Don't try to educate your spouse. It is a LoveBuster.

After all your advice I decided to not listen to you all about buying her the book HNHN. I flat out asked her if she would read it if not for our marriage than for her future ones.
While in Plan A you don't point out that the marriage may end. You don't "help" her to learn about other relationships. Keep it all about your own.

But if she was so dead set on reading it, all she had to do was not tell me about the mistakes. So I think she will read it.
I doubt it. She was simply being nice because you messed up (yeah, right.)

Besides, HNHN is not generally a good book to read for a ws. It doesn't do anything to make them want to get back together. If anything it does the opposite, because they KNOW (this is sarcasm) they can never fall in love with you again.

She is not really a WS she is more of a walk away S. So I am hoping the book will let her see that our problems are very normal and most fixable.

This book showed me what I was doing wrong all these years. So maybe just maybe its worth a shot. I don't think it can get any worse right now and when she wrote me she didn't say a word about not wanting it. She would have told me if she didn't want it because its not in her nature to be nice about things. She will tell me just what she is thinking as long as its not a positive thought.

So I guess I will have to wait and see.

Danny

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sandcrab:
<strong>There is nothing more in this world that would make me happier than to be with my wife once again.

This is killing me. She says I never cooked her dinner. I did a few times. But I made her breakfast a lot. I cant cook, I am embarassed by that. But you know what I did the dishes 90% of the time and would clean, give kids baths or other chores around the house. She makes it sound like I never did a damn thing.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From what you said she only made it sound like you never made her dinner. That doesn not equate to you never did a damn thing. You just don't like to hear it because you feel you can't cook. Make her a meal next time you're home. It's what she really wants.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sandcrab:
<strong>
She keeps saying that I wanted her to be my mother. That is so not true. I did most of the house cleaning around there. She did most of the laundry so I thought it was split prety good. She says that I always yelled at her when I would clean the house. In fact she would start nagging at me when I would do the cleaning. Then I would really lay into her. I have no problem cleaning the house but when I would have to come home from being at work and have to clean yeah I would be a little angery. But thats only becasue she was home all day long doing nothing. Than she would get feel guilty at me because I wanted to clean the house. She would imidatly start to push my buttins until we were fighting.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So she was nagging and you would really lay into her by yelling. After reading MB do you really feel that was an appropriate response?

When you came home from work why did you have to clean? Who was forcing you to do this? Did your wife make you clean or did you just want a clean place and weren't happy with your wife's standards?

What a major LB to claim your wife was home doing nothing. Do you realize just how hard it is to do nothing? Perhaps you should ask her what she did during the day.

Of course she felt guilty when you started cleaning. You admit to being angry when you came home and felt you had to clean. I imagine she felt guilty about your anger. She probably also felt guilty at seeing you work on the house after spending a full day at work. Unfortunately your wife's and your tolerance levels for mess are different and more than likely your wife didn't think the house had to be cleaned that night.

Your wife can push your buttons all day long without you having to argue with her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sandcrab:
<strong>
With that letter I wrote to my friend. My W started in on me saying that her kids are number one. Yeah right.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your wife is defending herself because you accused her of being a bad mother. This isn't really for you to judge. Instead you should have said, "I feel like my wife doesn't spend enough time with the children. It upsets me because of xyz. I would prefer it if my wife were to do abc."

Oh, and that last sarcastic comment of yours does soooo much to help everything. Now you're caught up in an argument over whether your wife is a good mother. She feels she is, you feel she isn't. You are going nowhere pretty fast.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sandcrab:
<strong>
When I was home for 8 days last week, the kids stayed with me the whole time. Well when I flew back, the second night the kids were home with her she got them a babysitter and was gone from 6 to 12. Now she should have been very well rested form the kids and knows that the kids needed her becasue I just left. She also keeps yelling at me that our six year old is a little [censored] and is going to live with me when I get home. Her just saying that breaks my heart. If your kids are number one than how can you call him names like she does and want him to go live with his father.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These two instances don't necessarily make your wife a bad mother. Out of curiosity, where are the children when you aren't home? My assumption is they are with your wife. You feel that because you spent 8 days in a row with your children without your wife that your wife should happily spend the remaining nights with them. I don't think that's really fair to say, especially when you're currently the part-time parent, not her.

Why do you have the right to judge whether your wife was rested? Why do you have the right to judge that she should automatically cancel any plans she has to stay home with the kids. It's okay for the children to have a babysitter, in fact it's good for them to see their parents have a life outside of the kids. Personally, I think you are jealous and want to know where she was those 6 hours. Would it have bothered you as much if she had gotten that babysitter so the two of you could go out?

When your wife yells at you about the 6 year-old how do you usually respond? While I don't condone calling children names, at least she's not telling the child that. It seems she has some issues with this child that need resolving. Why not support her and help her?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sandcrab:
<strong>

I dont want to split those two boys up. They are best friends and love one another so much. But yet if I tell Travis no then he is going to feel rejected from both his parents. His mother is already telling him that he is going to live with me.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to sit down with your wife and handle this and soon. I agree that they shouldn't be split apart. When you talk with your wife do not yell, call her names, judge her abilities or her morals. This may be hard, but you need to do it for your kids.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sandcrab:
<strong>

You see Travis (the oldest) was my wifes world then came Tyler. Well Tyler had open heart surgery when he was a month old. Now because this and because Tyler is so kind hearted he gets all the special love and attention. Travis is always coming in second with his mom and you see Travis is a very smart kid and sees this. Well he treats her like crap back. Almost like he is crying out for attention from his mommy. I see it everyone sees it
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Give examples. Give examples of when you felt Travis came in second and didn't deserve it. Give examples on when Travis treats his mom like crap. How do you and your wife handle these situations?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sandcrab:
<strong>

I am not the only person who is noticing the way my W is treating our kids and it not just family members. I know it will be a major love buster but should I really tell her what I think about her and our children?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Only if you have the ability to tell her what you think without judging her abilities as a mother, calling her names, or questioning her morals/standards. I agree you need to discuss the children with her. Why don't you write a pretend e-mail and let us help you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by sandcrab:
<strong>

I dont know. I just think she is being very stupid on not even wanting to see if we can fix this marriage. She says she is not seeing that guy any longer but I dont belive her. She keeps telling me that I was the perfect first husband. That really hurts me.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wouldn't want to fix a marriage with a man who thinks I'm a bad mother, stupid, and doesn't trust me either.

How do you reply when she says you were the perfect first husband?

April

Roan
First things first. I know it as wrong to attack my wifes mothering skills and I will never do it again. Also I want you to know that if I werent 5000 miles away from my children they would be with me all the time. I also understand that my W needs a break. But you missed something. My boys are very attached to me and when I have to go back to GERMANY they are very sad. I know W needs her time but dont you think that she could have waited a few more days for the kids to settle back into normal life.

Also you see my W starts work at 0600 in the morning. Most of the time the she drops kids off with grand parents the night before because she says its easier. Ok I can go with that. But you see my boys (whom are 5 and 4) tell me and the grand parents that they want to sleep at home more and when they are home mommy gets them a babysitter and goes out. The kids need all the love and stability they can get right now. There is more but Im not going to get into it because your right it is a major LB. I just want you to know that two seperate family memebers (both grandparents both sides of the family) and a outside of the family friend have came to me with consern about the boys. But thats all Im going to say about it.

I do know that the way I used to handel things between us was wrong. But I dont think it is grounds for a DV. Just something that we BOTH need to work on.

I do not think she is stupid not one bit. Also I was venting to you guys not to her. So she did not get all these mean things I was saying and she wasnt supose to get that email. I know that was my own fault.

Ok now I do want to talk to you about the house cleaning. So I am a bad person because I cant relax and enjoy my family in a dirty house. I would not say a word to her about me cleaning the house. I would just do it. SO how come I have to be the mean one because I wanted ( which I cleaned) a clean house for me and family. Its not like I would sit on my [censored] barking orders to the W about cleaning house. I saw that if I want a clean house that I should be the one to do it. If she really felt guilty about the house than maybe she should have cleaned it or atleast just helped me with out nagging me about it.

Well Raon. Im not going to comment on anything else because you are right I was attacking my wife. There are some issues right now that WE need to work out. I do know that she is not being her normal self. Because normally she is a wonderful mother and now things have changed. I see it and others see it.

What I do know is that I love her with all the heart and soul that is within my body. I am changing my ways everyday (learning where we went wrong and going to counseling). Weather she ever sees them is not up to me. There is nothing in this world that would make me happier than my wife just calling me and saying "lets talk". I know that I have done some bad things to my W but you know what she has done some pretty awful things as well. I dont know roan maybe your right I am just a [censored] (perfect first husband) and I diserve what I am getting. A divorce.

very sad and confused :-(
Danny