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Suz .... I'm buzzy wit my own labor pains sista'....
PUSH
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I've realized what it is about you and Jake that drives me so loopy !
You are both so.....so......SOOOO VAGUE. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen & Amen! Me TOO (loopy)! I want so badly just to get inside her brain.
I know she ALREADY has it all figured out!!!
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Suz .... I'm buzzy wit my own labor pains sista'.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't...I don't know much about having babies. Right now we are all in this labor room together...I haven't left out for delivery yet.
Could you please share you specific labor pains and what choices you have made in your specific situation?
(I sent you an email...are you comfortable giving an update?)
Suz...(and I wish I could change my name. I don't want to be Susan anymore...but I think I would lose my "registered Long Ago! status???)
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Susan, Are you feeling/saying something similar to what JD posted on this thread?? He looks back and realizes that many of his choices were made from emotions... and his point (I think) was that it is natural for us to be that way... especially when faced with crises.... and for us to realize that we should NOT beat ourselves up if we are ever emotional or irrational. My guess is that fear is ONE of the driving forces behind your decisions... but prolly not the ONLY force. (commitment, love, etc) Don't look back in fear to the choices you made. Accept them... and decide for today .... why are you in your marriage. How are you choosing today? Don't know if this helps at all. Thanks for a great thread, Pep! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> This is JUST what I needed today!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <small>[ February 28, 2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Faith1 ]</small>
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm buzzy wit my own labor pains sista'.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wanna wipe your forehead and let you squeeze my hand.
♥ Suz
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Don't know if this helps at all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It does Faith1, more than you know. Thanks. I am thinking... Phone is ringing...is that you calling Pep? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
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Pep - see Cerri's site at Save Your Marriage Central WAT (smooch)
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Maybe saying choices is the difference between living proactively and reactively. Choices would be reactively, whichever way our emotional side (in all it's flavors) dictates, the instinctual side of life. Choices would be living proactively, emphasis on our rational (non-emotional) side. Making decisions based on a logical understanding of ourselves, what we want, and the consequences. I don't think it is possible for a human being to be all one way (reactive or proactive....rational or emotional). So the issue is balance. Folks who pretty much live emotionally are not going to make many Choices, likewise folks who live only rationally are not really going to make many Choices either, just a series of rationalizations which are reactively driven by the emotions they are supposedly (but not really) ignoring.
IMO a psychologically healthy individual integrates their emotional and rational sides, and thusly makes proactive Choices . It is all about balance, and oversite. Our intellect provides oversite to emotional "reactions", and our emotions provide a check on purely rational decisions...ie if we "feel" guilty about something, it does not necessarily mean it is wrong, or shouldn't do it (boundary issues often), but it does mean their is something awry that needs to be resolved (ie don't live in denial). Essentially I think we need to poja ourselves, that is try to get our emotional reactive choices, in sync with our rational proactive analysis, the closer we get to that, the better our choice is likely to be.
This is not easy to do (as the post implies) and some of it is learned behaviour, which will never happen if you do not make the effort to learn and use it. But it can be done. I think Dr phils self-matters is the definitive text on this process. The essential question is why do I do what I do, what is the payoff, and is that ok. If it isn't working, than you change the paradigm, or how you implement the paradigm.....that is your issue selkirk, implementation. Anyone who follows rules in rote fashion is doomed to become reactive, and will suffer the consequences inherent in a reactive life. A rote application (of vows for example) allows no mechanism for proactive choice if you made a vow that is not in your healthy interest. In fact your well-being is not even a factor, because it is a "rule". There are no rules in life, none, that cannot be demonstrated to fail under some circumstance, and that is because rules are reactive, they do not allow for proactive modification with new information. Every rule is made to be broken.....if needed, that is Choice .
Clearly this is easy sometimes, very hard at others. Relationships are one of the hardest places to live proactively, lots and lots and lots of issues. Lot of emotion, lot of guilt, lot of fear, lot of addiction, lot of programming. But the payoff (consequences) are substantial (good or bad) for getting it right. The difficulty is in finding the proactive balance, and then having the courage to act on your Choice .
pepper...Do we make CHOICES using fear? Using feelings? When we are angry or hurt? When we are PMS-ing? ..... People do. Read these boards ..... with a watchful eye, see if you can tell when someone is making CHOICES with the wrong tools.
la...I agree there are skills (tools) in making decisions, often almost non-existent, or ignored. One of the biggest errors is in limiting your options (usually for emotional reasons) or focusing on a specific outcome instead of the ingredients.
pepper...Reducing to the lowest common denominator .... we find ourselves faced with our integrity and our moral principles. These tools are to be used when facing CHOICES.
la...People often define morality and integrity in very different ways, even linking them to specific behaviours. But I agree one needs integrity (which I define as an accurate understanding of who you are, and acting consistent with that, and that can vary.... a classic example is in how various cultures view commerce, one persons integrity is another persons thievery). Integrity is an internal constrait, it cannot be defined by anyone for you, but it can be observed (and mentioned) if you violate your own integrity. But how we "assess" others integrity is a factor in how we choose to interact with them, so ones internal integrity has external consequences and those consequences may motivate you to adjust your integrity paradigms.
Morality is a trickier issue. I do think their are external moral principles that apply to all, and you violate them at your risk, meaning you will not have a good outcome. But defining those principles (with consensus) is another one of those define beauty, define ponography, define love, etc. issues....not easy to do.
pepper...THIS is YOUR spiritual dilemma. Your feelings and fears are cyclic. Not to be trusted while making CHOICES. Your moral and spiritual foundation, your deeply held principles, your life compass is your guide.
la...they are not cyclic IMO, feelings are how you assess your reality, they are very important and you should fully integrate them into your decision process. They provide information crucial to your well-being, information vital to your rational side.
pepper...CHOICES define who we are.
la yep.
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Hello, Pepper. And Sel <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I can always use some pepperizing. Can't we all?
I think CHOICES must be faced with belief. Neither intellect nor emotion are up to the task.
Jake
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think CHOICES must be faced with belief. Neither intellect nor emotion are up to the task. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh darn, now what does this mean? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> su SAN
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Jake .... (((( squeezzzzzing your head))))
I am havin' my own personal non-marital breakdown .... and I'm takin' it out on all these here good folks!
I don't wannta talk about it right now, cuz I'm waitin' for inspiration and clarity to hit me over da'haid.
The rubber meets the road on this one buddy.
Zen me some prayers.
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Lurkin' .... I too am in favor of balance. Thanks for your response.
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't wannta talk about it right now, cuz I'm waitin' for inspiration and clarity to hit me over da'haid. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dat mus be MY answer, huh Peprika?
no updates from you?
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I want to get in your head and see YOUR process of thinking it through... Instead of.... TA DA.... Here is my enlightened solution!!! Girl, you must be off today like me, or everyone in LA must be well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
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Suz, I'm at woik .... and doing 6 things at one time.
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Jake~ </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think CHOICES must be faced with belief. Neither intellect nor emotion are up to the task.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe I can fly. Now what? Belief in what? Ability? Belief in what? Self? belief in what???Are beliefs and convictions one and the same? Aren't beliefs and convictions formed from emotions and intellect combined? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> selly
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selly,
So as not to hijack Pepper's thread, could you start a different thread and tell me a nutshell version of your story?
I am interested.
♥
Susan
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Hey, how did I miss this?
I'm the KING of "fear of the unknown" and "indecision"!
"And when I look back down that road
I see the turnings that we both made,
The choice we had to make
The promises we break
Are nothing more than memories.
Want to be with you" -Moody Blues "Want to be with you"
I still don't know whether I'm going to get/want to "be with" my W long term. But I realized this morning (see the 2TQ thread) that I have to work on the fear $h!+ before I can choose. I guess the bottom line is that I realized, also, that if I chose now, it would be a choice based on my emotional reaction, and I don't want it to be. I'm better than that. My W is better than that.
That's all I have to say,
♥ Qfwfq
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This is a snippet of a poem I wrote, wherein I bore on about choices. _____________________________________________ Terrifying change visits the world We are born, and though our future awaits us, our fate is sealed Terrible change will visit yet again We will die, and our fate now realized, become the past In between those twin terrors lies our life Choices and decisions, paths taken, and not taken It is in the choosing that we shape who we become And construct the world we leave behind Who do we become? To the world, we are the sum of our actions To ourselves, we are both more, and less Because only in our own heart is the true cost of each decision known _______________________________________________ The point is that to the world, we are our choices, but it is not always how we see ourselves. OFten we BELIEVE we are something other than our choices. Yet, how can that be? It can't, so in a tautological and self referential way, we in fact ARE what we do, regardless what we believe. How to "do" well, then. The answer is simple, and requires no emotional or intellectual thinking. It is no more than to act as who we believe we are. Always. You will be wrong, at least occasionally, but you will always be choosing well. Pepper, I can only imagine what breakdown you are suffering. I send you prayers of well being often - I hope you get them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Wu Wei - actively waiting for inspiration. A good thing to do. I do it often. But then, I am often in need of inspiration! LOL! Jake PS - is squeezing my head a good thing?
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Susan, I'd be happy. I don't have time but I will later on. It may be tomorrow, though. sel <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
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