WOW MM , even when you trash someone your so kind about it LOL , TRASHING in a nice way LOL

OH well , how am I doing it , lets see not very well , I have screwed up PLAN A at every chance I had for months now , but I still feel ok that I get my thoughts out . I know he probbly don't hear them that well (FOG OR JUST DEAF)

BUT I know some where in that very small craneum there is a brain and some where in the ice burg of a chest lies a heart and some day he will be faced with what his shoulders will not hold any more the GUILT , OF WHAT HE DID TO DESTROY A FAMILY AND A REAL GOOD CATCH OF A WOMEN !!!

i AM DONE , like I said, earlier , I changed the sheets on the spare bed and when he comes home tonight thats where I will be .

I do wish I could become a cold and calas person , so I could remove myself to be a better freind to him but I can not .

maybe the 2 weeks of ignoring him will help me to not care at all , there isn't that much left anyway . Alittle bit to go .

EVEN when he tells me all these wonderful things , I get less and less of that tingle that I use to , cause I just look at him and say show me now , show me that you belive I am a great , beutiful, cring , loving , strong women and stop hurting me .

HE told me I am his strainth , I am his back bone Of him and this M , I said, well all strong people get sick and tired and want to be taken care of to . And I am tired and sick and I have the need to be taken care of emoyionally after all these years I want someone to GIVE their self up for me . I want someone to put myy needs , and wants first above there own .

THAT is what I want now . I want to be treated like a queen cause I look good in a CROWN !!!

TRUElY all kidding aside 3 really is a CROWD , and I would rather be alone then then with someone who is not cappable of loving me . CAUSE I AM WORTHEY !!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ok MISS M > I am .

3,

Like I said, i wouldn't believe anything Ws says. I mean, WS needs to make up his mind. First you are wonderful, marvelous, and the next minute you are a blankety blank. It's all a bunch of blah blah blah if you ask me.

Words are cheap. Actions speak much louder than words 3, what do WS ACTIONS say? I don't think I need to tell you what WS actions say.

It is not what you say it's what you DO that matters. WS needs to put his money where his mouth is, so to speak. Pun intended.

MHO is you need some boundaries. And yes, I have heard so much about how strong I am, etc. and sometimes I really HATED hearing it. It plain wears you out when no one takes care of you.

BOUNDARIES 3.

And you are a lot like your mom. Except you yell about it LOL and she didn't. You are a good person, and worthy of being treated well, which I am sure is hard to believe after being treated like chopped liver for the longest time. So make some boundaries, time to stop being treated like dog meat, you are prime rib, honey! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Praying.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

<small>[ May 19, 2003, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: Miss M ]</small>

I am so sorry to hear about your weekend, it doesn't look like much has changed.

He is doing this for no other reason than he is looking out for his needs, his needs, his needs.
He's not doing what's best for either you or the OW.

It is like a drug addiction. He wants to stop, sees what it's doing, but then goes back to it. He doesn't want you to call her because he's afraid of losing his supply. And doesn't want to leave you because he's be losing his supply. He likes it the way it is, as long as you and she weren't so angry.

I can almost hear him, "If you both didn't get after me so much this would be a perfect situation." Perfect for whom?

Addictions are selfish acts, and an addict thinks of nothing but getting their next feel good fix...

How do you protect yourself from the addict? Monetarily? You can legally separate the money so you won't be responsible for anymore bills when he leaves. You can have true N/C with him so you don't have to hear his manipulations. Have a go-between and work through that person.
And it is NOT your fault!!

He is sick. He is capable of being loving and a good husband, but not until he owns up and is honest about his addiction (the A) and his dependency on it...sure, he's making it sound like she's the one dependent on him...right, he's the one dependent on her.

He's sick, ill, not thinking straight, I know, it doesn't make the pain go away, but it's the endorphins talking, those lovely brain chemicals he gets from all the love and attention swooned his way...

In home Plan B sounds good....Try not to make ANY contact with him though...

GOOD MORNING all , UPDATE or does it matter at this point . FIRST I got to tell ya I WENT KICK BOXING LAST NIGHT !!!!!!!!!! IT WAS GREAT much better then my TYBO cause I got to kick butt on a live person , WOW what a stress relief and I mean it it was awsome .

SO WS has a different HAT on starting this week , now I know that suprises everyone >>>>NOT LOL

MON> saw OW came home 12;30pm , and went to bed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

TUES> attitude , the depression thing and the I wish I could run away (this is how he got 2 yrs ago when he left) I hate everyone , I wish everyone would leave me alone , I don't love anyone I care for no one why doesn't everyone see that and leave me alone .

WELL I said, I see that , so any time you want to pack I'll fold your cloths for you .

I don't want any thing , nothing I want to be on my own left alone ( IE. let me run away to OW and pretend I am alone )

HAS the never to tell me I should really stop feeling soory for myself thing , LOL can you imagine . I am feeling soory for my self .

THIS from a man who doesn't know how to tell his wife he wants to be with OW .

THEN tells me OW hasn't called (tues) but on the way home his PHONE is off for 45mins (same time he would stop there ) SO all the lies , if you can;t prove it then I can lie and its your sick imagination .

HE is mentally ill , thats it I am judge jury and doctor . NO FOG , He is ill . very sick maybe split persomality I don't know . BUT I know this , I am stepping way back way .

I can't even here this any more , its not anything that has any sense to it .

ILL I SAY ILL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So the law has it I can not through him out , he is not phisiclly abusive . I can leave , NOT .

I am not calling her , and I am not exposeing A to all either .

DO I have A plan , yep . I will post soon .

AND I am going to make it work . EVEN if it goes alittle past JUNE 1 .

3,

Boundaries, 3. I think you are starting to get it.

Stop feeling sorry for yourself? You have, and I repeat this, done more to save your marriage and family than most people ever would.

As you said, it is time for you to step back, way back. How long has this been going on? 15 months? I think it's time you said enough.

I've told you this before, don't listen to the fogspeak. Make your plan. You have endured enough emotional abuse to last most people a life time.

Hope you are thinking about those boundaries. I am thinking clothes packed, out on porch. Locks changed and if there is grief, it's time to call 911. I think he might get the message. Just try to make sure kids are not a witness.

So you are dogmeat this week. WS wearing the wife is dogmeat hat. Well, you are not! Get that thru your head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Praying for you as always. Try to stay in plan A until June 1. And I say this because that is what your decision has been, to do plan A until June, and I do respect that.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Thinking of you...

Good thoughts to remember, he is ILL, he is not seeing things clearly. He is not himself.

He will need to leave to see what he's missing. And he will come back. But don't let him back too soon.

Have you thought of counseling with Dr. Harley?
They can walk you through the process of letting go to get him back...

Find a friend you can talk with!!!!!!
Its cruel, and only protecting the WWWH to not allow you to tell anyone. Once Plan B is implemented, I think a nice letter to the OW may be in order too..."I would like you to know what is going on. Perhaps we can talk regularly so we can keep up with H. He will have N/C with me, but I will let you know if he tries..."

I wish you weren't going through this.

HEY guys , I want to clear some things up . THIS is not PLAN B JUNE1 . This is PLAN O (OVER)

I thought I explained it , you see doing this asking him to leave . Will be the way it went down the last time .(with some changes of corse )

THIS is what he truely wants , you see he does know me , thats how he knew he could get away with this and knows I mean JUNE1 .

See ws knows I am the type who endures a great amount of $hit LOL BEFORE I loose it . HE banked on the fact that I made the dead line and pushed harder to be with OW , so she would stay around while I was getting feed up .

THATS why since I set the bounderies ws has been saying the same things he said, the first time . Its you , it has nothing to do with OW , YOU don't sut up , you don't belive me , you didn't get over it . All these things to say I am not the one ending this M you are telling me to get out I don't want to leave its you , you must not really love me .

THIS is the end of the line , I told ya , once ws is out he will start to bring kids around her , and that is the lock down for me and he knows it .

HE knows the minute he does that , thats the thing that will make it secure in the point of no return .

YOU see he didn't take visitation with kids and see her the last time . SO he kept the door to come home open cause he said, he knew I would never do that to my kids , allow them to spend weekends meeting OW and playing family , then come home cause I feel that causes to much damage to my kids.

GOT to admit played right into this , NO WS can't await till JUNE 1 . THATS his ticket to freedom and to make her happy , cause for as long as he lives here he knows OW will flip out if she keeps being denied the right to see my kids . THATS the thing that sends her over the edge .

NOT being exsposed to his freinds , family and kids is waht kept her LB 'ING .

NOW come JUNE he gets to give her this very special gift , THAT SHE STOOD BY HIS SIDE FOR !!!!

YOU see this stand by my side $hit , thats how OW WON . SHE is showing him (in his head ) that because she put up with this for so long that she is the one who stood by him in his most desparate time of need . JUST like alst time .

WHEN I spoke with her that time she was crying and said, so many things that make sence now even more . OW said, WS always told her the reason she didn't meet anyone and had to sneak and be pacient
was cause I was turning my kids against her and that he needed time to make sence of this to eveyone that he really didn't love me and it wasn't cause of the A . And I made that hard cause I manipulate people and I screwed it all up for him again I was ruining his life .

AND she was the only one he could count on in his life cause I turned all against him .

see so the sick demented trueth is , he veiws her the one who really put up with him and stood by him .

THIS is all so funny , I set out to save a M , and aloud myself to be apart of the ultimate END of the M .

SO as the record will show on MB this will not be PLAN B or a RECOVERY Story at all . COME JUNE this will be awaiting the D board .

WELL gots to go guys , SHOULD I give ya a break from the DRAMA till JUNE 1 , or can you all use the laugh for the next 10DAYS .

I will say my THANK YOUS later on but , I always want those of you who hung in there with me know , I THANK YOU all from the bottom of my heart , it has been such a relief to share this with someone . I probbly would have been in a straight jacket by now if it were not for MB .LOL

I will always love this man , and will always have regrets and will always feel I failed myself and my family . Possable that in time some of the pain may slow down and I will be able to keep it in check and just occasionally cry and morn the loose of a person I love with all my heart .

NEVER ahving the answered to the questions , never really truely knowing the WHY ?

AND never knowing if 18 years of my life was wasted or even real or was always smoke and mirriors.

FUNNY how this makes you not shore about what reality aand fantasy is . WHAT you see everyday in front of you may not even be real .

SOMETHING like the MATRIX . SEE the movie . THE mind is a powerful thing .

CHAT later got to JET !!!!!!!!!!

3,

You know, I kind of resent that you think that this might be for LAUGHS, or that people might be here for laughs. Have hung in there with you and I don't think anyone sees anything funny about your whole situation.

Have prayed for you a lot, have prayed for you to quit LBing, which is what plan A is supposed to be for. You being stubborn has hurt you a lot.

You have it all figured out I guess. So if you want to go with plan D, go for it. It was supposed to be plan B. But hey, it is your life.

Sorry you are going thru so much. You are not a failure, your WS is.

But hey, have tried to be there for you and tried to help you, for what it is worth. Not much I guess. I know it has been really hard for you. It has been the worst situation. One thing I know is that you need peace in your life.

I hope you find it 3, and I am sorry if this is a 2x4.

One last bit of advice is not to ever presume what someone else thinks or feels, especially if they are in the fog.

Praying, and turning you over to God.

Peace out.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

<small>[ May 22, 2003, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: Miss M ]</small>

3,

If there is one thing I learned dealing with this A crap is NEVER believe everything the WS and OP tell the BS. It is ALWAYS full of manipulative statements.

There is some truth and it is cluttered with lies and deceit. They want you to be a part of their web of lies and deciet.

So what does a BS do? Well, for one hear them out if you can, then really take a good look at it. The BS usually can file away almost every syllable & inflection the WS and OP say. Then selectively pick out the pieces that make sense. Some of it will be painful but that is a temporary pain. With this knowledge, clear up that fog. Then identify your boundaries and move forward.

IMHO, the OW told you these things either because that is what the WS told her or that is what she wanted to hear or that is what she wanted you to hear. Very clever these OWs. Beaware of her. Do not believe ALL she says.

Why? Well from an outsider's view, if what she said was 100% accurate, your H would have left earlier. There is something keeping him around. He has some shame. He may be losing his scruples but he is trying to hang onto something.

Does that mean you should continue to hang on? I can't answer that, only you can.

Plan B is for your protection. Do you realize that an LB in plan A is ok in plan B? Why? Because the result/goal is different. Self preservation is more important in plan B.

You will find some relief in executing plan B. Do you need to do plan B before finalizing the D? It is better. It gives you another opportunity to strengthen yourself.

Remember the OW is not that great. If she was, he would have been long gone a long time ago. She does have her flaws and he knows it.

Does that mean he will come back? That is unknown. One's personal character and real self play a big roll in this piece. No one not even the WS or you can know what will happen for sure. Many a WS found themselves doing the most unpredictable things. Some of them even forget all the pain they put their families through and are amazed how much we (BS') remember those sordid details. Why do we remember? The triggers......the trauma......the drama.....we don't forget...... we can't..... not yet.

Just know that this is not the end. It just feels like it. I thought I knew what the end was. Just when I thought I knew my direction, the winds of life, reason and love blew all around me. Not always from the WS (who was a jerk for a loooong time), but from many other sources (my support crew and then some).

3, don't write it all off yet. You aren't ready to do so. When you are you will be able to do so with a more collective mind. Take a stroll over the to d/d site. The inner strength of most of those there are amazing. What some of them have had to endure is mind boggling.

I talk with a girl called 'notagapeach' on the d/d site. She is a young working mom, with a 4 year old boy. She was rendered homeless and her STBXH kicked her out, moved in the 2nd OW and now his parents. He has done much more. His latest antic was to break into her home and soon an RO will be placed against him. Yet though this all, this young mom has got a job, setup a home, worked with her lawyers, was elected state representative/president(?) of her medical group in her state, just gave the opening speech at the latest conference and was given an award at that convention. All while she has strep throat to boot! Her H just broke into her home and gave police a chase. He is on a downhill ride and still has not hit bottom.

What does she have? She still has the love of her son and the respect and love of all who know her (except for STBXH and his family - whole 'nother story). She is convinced she will succeed. I believe her.

I know you will also. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

take care,
L.

(((((3)))))

Just want to let you know, I'm still here, I check this thread every day. I hink everybody's giving you great advice--don't know of anything I could add to it. I'm so sorry things are going so rough with the d!¢k (ya know I had to do it--lol).

You are a strong woman--I know you can get through this. And like I've said many times before, regardless of what happens, YOU will be okay. If your h wants to screw up a marriage with a woman like you over the nutjob he's allowing to manipulate him, then he doesn't deserve you anyway. Take care of yourself and your kids--it will get better, with or without him.

I know, I know, Plan B is the end, over, kaput, I've heard you say it over and again and I have chosen to ignore it.

Plan B is not really a plan, it is when you give up, you have no more contact with the WS and let them be. You drive him into her arms and make the A escalate (and eventually implode). You wait.

And then you slowly lift your head up and when FWH wants to renew contact with you and the fog has lifted you begin to SLOWLY let him back into your life (after much remorse and apologizing).

Or,

He decides to D...at which time you establish a peacable arrangement with him.

This is the time you begin enjoying life again without being faced with the A every day (what you don't hear about, or what's not shoved in your face, doesn't hurt as bad).

That sounds a bit like your plan, so that's why I call it Plan B...but we can call it something else, like Plan 3, because everyone does this a different way.

What about the legal separation? The legal paper that entitles you to part of his money and lays out the visitation? And do you have a person that will act as a go-between so you don't have to be in contact with him? And have you started drafting a letter?

3,

How are you doing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.

3,

Earth to 3, come in 3! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope you are alright.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

3,

Just want you to know I am thinking of you and praying for you too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope you got thru the holiday weekend okay.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

<small>[ May 27, 2003, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: Miss M ]</small>

3,

How are you doing? Please let us know.

Hugz,
L.

3,

Hope you are ok.

Praying for you. Just want you to know that you are a good gal, worthy, WORTHY. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Love in Christ,
Miss M

Hi all, thanks for checking in , I went kick boxing thurs. last week after doctors and came home sick .

FRi. was really sick ,basicly I was out of it , don't remeber being that sick in years .

9Am ws started to call seeing how I feel , ALL I did was cry like a baby on phone , then he started with I am so sorry , YOUR sick I will call you later , I said why you telling me ow called already ws said, yes .

WELL long story short ws went to see OW , I couldn't put up a fight , I hung up each time he called the rest of day .

HE would say a couple of things I just cried , I love you , make it up to you , it will be over, I hate myself ...BLAH BLAH this summer will be the start of a new life for us . OK then comes home 10am SAT. morning.

OW &WS from what I was suppose to belive fought all night , then fell asleep then she kicked him to wake him to fight some more and he went to leave at 6am and she woke up and started again .

SAT. we have work to do on house digging for new cement and we where getting a container for the dirt so we had to move it all over the weekend .

So after he spoke to me for an hour , ws went outside in rain to work , I went out to , (yes sick & a fever) he yelled for me to go in I said, no we need to get done & he couldn'r do it alone .

I pushed for 3 hours then went in .

Ok OW starts call about 6pm that night , wants him there now to see her . They fight ws does not go .

SUN. more work early cause we have another party at 3 pm go to party and home by 6pm . Ow calls again I want you here now , he said, I don't know I am with kids and I will see .

WS tells me she is ripping mad , and wants him to come over , if he don't go tonight ow will definnately start for monday being he has off .

I said, much of nothing . I just looked at him and said, what do you want to do? he said, I want to work outside and relax with you , but I also don't want to deal with this tomorrow either and OW will start even more . I said, wow sounds like you really got a decision to make , DO WHAT YOUR TOLD , VERSES WHAT YOU WANT ???

OW continues to call on cell , WS goes to pay phone ,gone an hour . comes back and the min. he steps in his phone goes off asks me to keep kids outside and I did . HE took the call in house , telling her he was at his apt .(by brotheres )

THE yelling started ,.

HE hung up , that was that . About an hour later he says , OW told him come tonight and he said, no , maybe tomorrow leave me alone , OW said, I am sick of your hiding something ,this was the STRAW ---------

OW-"come here now(sun,) mon, tues and wend and go see your little pieces of $HIT for kids on THURS. there is no need that you have to see them this much . "
WS- ARE you nuts , you don't tell me when to come and go and to see my kids .

OW --- I am sick of you hiding something if you don't stay with me all week the way I say then I don't want to here from you , and I will bring you down and make your life not worth living .

So ws doesn't go , MON. ws don't go and ow doesn't call either .

BTW great sex all over house from late evening sun. into mon .

comes home early tues (I go KB) , home early wend . BUT OW did call , she called yelled and said, get here after work and bring your kids if you need to see them , WS said, go F;*$# yourself.

OW said, you will pay .

I have received some prank calls and one was at 2am that sun. it was one of her freinds (did not relive who until after I hung up though ) asking of course for a different name person as if it was a wrong #.

So ws has not seen ow since FRI . last week .

All I did while I was sick , and pray for ws to show me something anything . When he came home sat. morning I thought that was what he showed me , and don't get me wrong it was .

BUT him not seeing her this weekend and all week is the bigger sign .

NO holiday weekend has gone down this way and the week either . we have a dinner tonight at 6pm .
So he will be home for that , the next test of the water will be FRI. Night .

THEY always see one another on fri. nights . I am thinking he will go , as if to say , Ow is good and mad and he probbly thinks the last fight is in order face to face (sun being june and all )

He needs to get the I don't want to here from you thing out to the open for the last time .

Just my way of thinking . (into his mind )

Well thats the up date , I am still under the weather . No anti -d's .

Doctors need to run some test first concerning heart deseases (mom 's ) standered my sister had to go through tests first before she could get meds for her anxity .

I don't think I am bothering , something about getting sick fri. and going to the gym.

I am ok with all . This Ow and him I belive in my heart will push there relationship over the edge all by themself .

I have been doing very well not LB'ing and I have just been myself , no real plan , just what will be will be .

I 've come to a calm conclusion , that I can't stop this nor can I control this with dead lines or anything else , It probbly would have been alot easier if I got to this point months ago .

I am just living each day , thats all , if he continues contact well I will deal the consiqences as I see fit .

I do belive he loves me and he doesn't want to leave me , I think withdrawal will be hard , for I see little things this week .

He is not nasty , he doesn't pull away , he is just more quit then when he sees her .

I am giving him space and I am taking mine as well .

SO going on 7days of not seeing her . One step at a time I hope she stays in the damanding mood that she is in .

Last thing I need is for OW to calm down or cry !!

LB'ing is what I pray she does ,and him seeing the light through the FOG .

Thats it I am turning this over to pray , not for me for them . He needs to have peace and be happy and ow needs the same in her life .

I pray for THERE rollercaoster to end . Thats all folks .

So I will post , tonight if I can if not I will check in and I will post tomorrow , Park with kids in an hour .

Wow....

Kind of how you expected things to happen, in his own time...

The withdrawal is hard (and my FWH and I are going to separate for awhile because the withdrawal has been so hard).

But I would warn against giving him TOO much space. Some time alone is OK, but he may need you to grab him and ask him if he wants to go do something fun (miniature golf anyone?) or even mundane with you (grocery shopping anyone?) My H needed distractions for awhile, more attention, and FUN!

Sounds like you're doing a wonderful Plan A. After a while for me it didn't feel like a plan but more a change in my behavior I wanted to continue after the crisis.

Great Job!!!

YaHOO!!!! See 3???? Making the OW LB without lifting a finger feels good doesn't it?!?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Know that she will get more and more demanding. You step back and let him take her wrath. In fact if he gives you a bad time, send him to the OW. That is what I did. He learned not to bully me.

take care,
L.

3,

Sorry to hear you have been sick, not surprising considering the stress you have had in your life.
I remember at one point my daughter was so stressed out that her body kind of shut down, 103 temp for 2 days and sick. Not the flu or anything.

Anyway, you have had some great advice from Orchid and others. Orchid is very wise about these ongoing A's and fogstuff.

You have been doing great. Looks like some of the stuff you have read and heard on here is starting to help you a lot. You are doing so well, I am very proud of you. As I said, you are worthy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sorry if I sounded harsh. Have had my own stuff going on, related to medical things. Have been going through menopause, and the HRT they have had me on has wreaked havoc with my emotions and my anxiety factor has been pretty bad. Got a small prescription for Xanax yesterday to help me until the excess hormones flush out of my system. I have an anxiety disorder diagnosed 3 years ago(one of the things I developed during FWS A) that I can usually handle because of great therapy, but lately it has been awful. Not my fault, just the hormones the dr put me on. At least I know what is wrong with me. Have gained 15 Lbs of water weight in one month too. Very pleasant, NOT!
Plus other physical stuff I won't mention on the board. YUCK. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Anyway, hope this weekend goes okay for you. Hope it all ends soon. As Orchid says, you don't have to do anything, just sit back and observe, do your plan A and let WS suffer with ow LBing all over the place.

You can't control WS or ow, but you can change your reactions and you are doing a wonderful job of it. Yeah 3!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Go 3 go! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Still holding you up in prayer.

Love in Christ,
Miss M