Hey all,

Here's the official update on on tonight and my thoughts. The good news is, that everything went according to plan. I stayed away from the house for about a hour and a half, which would have given W more than enough time, even if she was running late. By the time I got home, she was gone. She locked the door behind her, and that was considerate.

It doesn’t look like she stuck around too much, so perhaps she was also not looking for contact. I’m not sure if she even went upstairs (the house is a split level). I had most of her things packed up downstairs, as she knew, but she also knew she had some things upstairs in the bedroom (unless she forgot). Her things in the bedroom are STILL there, as is her rocking chair (which is large, though she could fit it in her car she may need help, so that may be why she left that), also her cookbooks, other things. In other words, she left stuff here. Still. I’m not sure about the bedroom stuff, but the rocking chair is something I’m pretty sure she’s going to want at some point. Maybe an excuse to make another contact when she wants one? I’m not sure.

In looking at W’s emails from today again, it does seem as if the first note, her saying she wants all her stuff, was her first reaction to the PB letter. Obviously a strike back at me, for it’s a physical statement of separation. Then, I came back with the okay on that, and seemed fine, so she took the second strike – Sort of like a “Oh, so he doesn’t seem too hurt by me wanting my stuff! I know, I’ll tell him I want to finish the divorce papers! That’ll show him!”. It really does seem as if she is thinking of anything she can to strike back as a result of the control I took with PB. Thoughts on that? What’s it look like to you? I should also mention, regarding her sudden need to come and get her stuff…NONE of this stuff that she got tonight is really important or essential. It sat here for 6 months and she didn’t want to take it. Why today? Again, maybe symbolic, a way she can fight back after PB.

In fact, a lot of it was stuff I gave her. Cards and such. She could have easily thrown that stuff in the trash or left behind. There were also some dried roses that she’s saved for years that I once gave her. I noticed that she took all of this with her. Now, of course, she could be throwing it right in the trash at her place, too. But I suppose it could be a good sign that she is holding on to that stuff that I gave her.

There was no note left by her, no email or anything, so I am where I want to be right now. PB started, and she took her strikes back at me, but I stood my ground and basically stayed in NC (aside from the quick emails to tell her she could get her things). From this point on, I stay very dark, no contact of any kind at all, and I also plan to ignore any contact she attempts to make, unless of course it’s to reconcile.

On divorce: I’m still not sure how to handle that one. I’ll be totally honest with you. I love W, I do. But at this point, it’s no longer worth the CHANCE of saving the M at the potential cost of losing the house and everything I have worked hard for all of my life. Right now, a no fault divorce is cheap, and easy, and W doesn’t want anything but what belongs to her. I’m a lot luckier than some in that regard. If I draw this out, not only will the lawyers involved make this a greater expense, but the risk of losing more than just her is a lot greater.

I know the MB answer to this, it’s that if I value my marriage that much, I can’t put a price on it, and it’s worth drawing it out for the chance of saving it, even though it may cost thousands and lose a lot of what I own. Well, I can honestly say, for me, at this point, it’s not worth losing all that for a SLIM TO NONE CHANCE. If I thought drawing it out had a chance of working, I would do it in a heartbeat. However, I don’t think dragging it out will change her mind. If she wants this divorce, and is that adamant about it, she will have it, not only because I grow weary of the fight, but because she hasn’t ever done a thing to show me she is considering reconciliation, not once, AND because it’s not only easy for her, but easy for me as well. I can put this behind me and start over without losing everything I have.

Well, that about does it for now. I’d be interested in your opinions on anything else, too. Regarding the things she kept, the fact she left things behind still, etc.

Thanks!

ALS

<small>[ May 01, 2003, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: ALostSoul ]</small>

ALS:

I was distracted again, but I got to meet Mr and Mrs Pepperband!!! That was very helpful for me.

I think you're going to be fine!

-Qfwfq

The question is, will I be fine or will my MARRIAGE be fine? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ALS

ALS- My W also wanted everything of hers out of the house at the start of PB. She came and only took some of her stuff and never came back for the rest. I think a knee-jerk rection to the PB letter.

Regarding divorce, wait, wait, wait. If you really love her than wait. I am not saying months or years, but weeks. Just give both of you some time. In the heat of the moment you might make a decision you will regret for the rest of your life. IF you are not sure than wait. If she sends you Dv papers than vent to us and see where your heart is.

You are doing fine!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ALostSoul:
<strong>The question is, will I be fine or will my MARRIAGE be fine? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ALS</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You will be fine! Your marriage may or may not, but YOU will survive!

Thanks Q, STTSI...

It's one of those nights I find myself here at the MB board more often than usual. Guess I still need it as a crutch sometimes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'm pretty sure the wanting all her stuff was a knee-jerk reaction. I think that demand came immediately after she read the email with the PB letter.

Waiting on the Dv isn't a problem. I don't expect to speak with W for a while now, if she calls I am not answering the phone, if she emails I am not responding. I told her I am going into NC and I mean it. If divorce papers are just sent to me, I will sit and wait them out a little while, I won't just sign on the spot. And of course I'll be right here the moment that happens, if it does.

I'm sure I will be fine, I guess just a little frustrated that my plans, while executed in the right timeframe and fashion, don't seem to be having much effect...If any at all. I may be one of those cases where saving the M was just impossible.

ALS

But remember, als, that for your M to be fine, you must first be fine! So, it's fine that you're going to be fine!

FINE!
♥Qfwfq

Yep, that's an excellent point. I know I am doing better than ever and will be fine. It's hard to think of a life without ever seeing W again, but in a lot of ways that may be easier as well. When she gets to see me every once in a while that may be all she needs. Total NC just might be what it takes for her to want to come back. I don't have a lot of faith in that, but I recognize it as a possibility.

The Plan A letter I wrote back in December, and the Plan B letter I sent yesterday are hopefully both still in her hands. I hope that perhaps should things turn out badly with her and OM, that she will read them again and see the love and care, and understand where I was coming from.

Sadly, I'm not one of those situations where there are ties that will always be there between us. My W and I have no common friends at all, never have, since she moved here from far away. All her friends are a result of the A. We have no kids. So chances are, after Dv, we may never see each other again. I do wonder if the thought of that makes her sad. I know that, when we talked about things, she expressed interest in being my friend. Of course, she wanted me to be her friend while she continued to sleep with the OM. And that to me, is unacceptable. So to some degree I can see she still enjoys my company. Perhaps the thought of losing that forever will be what it takes to finally turn things around.

Time will tell.

ALS

ALS-

Get out of the mindset:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm sure I will be fine, I guess just a little frustrated that my plans, while executed in the right timeframe and fashion, don't seem to be having much effect...If any at all. I may be one of those cases where saving the M was just impossible.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is completely untrue and is just your way of feeling sorry for yourself...don't go there. You've given a GREAT analysis of events. She is grasping onto ANYTHING to save her fantasy world...it's crumbling before her feet.

Guess what...You did EVERYTHING right and your chances of saving that marriage have increased by the actions you took yesterday. GO BACK AND READ MORTORMAN'S post. He describes PLAN_A/PLAN_B to a tee. I think it will help you see things clearer.

I'm SO proud of you...The hard part is now beginning. Try and remember that you are vulnerable so STAY AWAY from the women!!!

Again, I'm here if you need me...

ALS, listen to Kily for she is right. Besides it never pays to argue with an engineer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong>ALS, listen to Kily for she is right. Besides it never pays to argue with an engineer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nor does it pay to argue with a woman! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Be VERY careful in your dealings with women, you are going to be very vulnerable yourself. The next several weeks will be very hard for you. When I went to PB all I wanted to do was contact my W. It took everyone here with the MB 2X4 to keep me in line.

When she did contact me I went straight to MB and Cerri for advice. Everyone was great.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nor does it pay to argue with a woman! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.

Now why did you go an say such a sexist thang? Now you'd better hi tail it out of Dodge if you know what's good for ya. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nor does it pay to argue with a woman! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.

Now why did you go an say such a sexist thang? Now you'd better hi tail it out of Dodge if you know what's good for ya. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know about sexist, my W wouldn't disagree with that statement!

I wasn't going to say anything - but I cannot bite my tounge any longer...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Still Trying To Save It:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T00MuchCoffeeMan:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nor does it pay to argue with a woman! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.

Now why did you go an say such a sexist thang? Now you'd better hi tail it out of Dodge if you know what's good for ya. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know about sexist, my W wouldn't disagree with that statement!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It depends on the woman that you are arguing with - but yes, 98% of the time, we are right - Uh oh - I have to duck - I feel a 2X4 coming to set me straight... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Out comes the MB frying pan - female equivalent to 2x4 .....twang....as the sound rings in your ears...and the crowd roars with laughter...

ALS are you smiling yet? We're doing our best MB routine here.

I'm actually feeling better today. Thanks everyone. I do know better than to disagree with Kily, an engineer, and women in general. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But I still do it sometimes anyway!

What I did today was go back and read this entire thread. Wow, it took a while! But I saw a lot of great advice and justification for my Plan B. It seems that the majority, if not all of you, agreed that given my current situation, it was what I needed to do, for me and for my M.

This is completely untrue and is just your way of feeling sorry for yourself...don't go there. You've given a GREAT analysis of events. She is grasping onto ANYTHING to save her fantasy world...it's crumbling before her feet.

Guess what...You did EVERYTHING right and your chances of saving that marriage have increased by the actions you took yesterday.

Kily, thanks for your kind words today. Your post really did give me hope. It really does seem like her 2 actions yesterday were her desperate attempts to attack back after the PB letter. From her point of view, the hurtful thigns she could do to lash back would definitely be take her stuff, and push the divorce. Exactly what I feared but she probably knew that. I am SO GLAD that I chose not to be home when she came for her stuff. I'm not sure if she was looking for a confrontation, but she didn't get one.

Now that she's got her stuff (well, most of it anyway) I can basically ignore any attempts of hers to contact me if she tries. I don't need to reply to email, or answer the phone, or the door. Now, at some point she may decide to just mail me divorce papers or leave them in the mailbox, it's obvious when I'm home so she could just show up, but I will take that as it comes. For now, I'm going to work on myself and enjoy beeing free of the Plan A mentality, happy with the fact that Plan B, whether it helps or not, was what I needed to do.

Thanks for your support, all of you, and especially Kily, thank you for continuning to give me hope even when things look the darkest. You've been there, so you know that my W's reaction to this letter may actually be normal, and not a sign that the M is over. Thanks for helping me to know that I am doing the right thing. I am actually not anticipating having a hard time with it, I have no urge to contact W at all, I just hope she doesn't push for contact with me just so she can talk divorce.

And I'll be careful, no women, I'll stay away, no women in my life right now anyway, so I should be just fine in staying faithful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Which Mortarman post are you referring to Kily? I want to track it down but I can't find it...

ALS

I'll bump it for you...

Tried to BUMP but my posting process is messed up today...

Here's a link instead.
Mortarman's Plan A/Plan B Observations and reflections...

<small>[ May 02, 2003, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: kily ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ALostSoul:
<strong>
Thanks for your support, all of you, and especially Kily, thank you for continuning to give me hope even when things look the darkest. You've been there, so you know that my W's reaction to this letter may actually be normal, and not a sign that the M is over. Thanks for helping me to know that I am doing the right thing. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know it sounds impossible at this point but your M may not be over at all. Again, my W reacted the same way at my PB letter, she was pissed because of the letter. She was also ticked because I did the Harley thing and told all about her A. She was really mad by me telling everyone but she said that is what helped her to end the A. If you haven't done it yet, do it now. You will get so much flack from it but my only regret is that I didn't do it earlier.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ALostSoul:
<strong>
I am actually not anticipating having a hard time with it, I have no urge to contact W at all, I just hope she doesn't push for contact with me just so she can talk divorce.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For me it was the most difficult time in my life, even harder than D-day and THAT was hard.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ALostSoul:
<strong>
And I'll be careful, no women, I'll stay away, no women in my life right now anyway, so I should be just fine in staying faithful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It always starts out innocent. I had lunch with a female friend of mine while was Plan A'ing and I started to feel attracted to her because she was meeting my need for conversation. I have not spoken to her since lunch that day. Remember it starts out innocent and snowballs from there.

{{{{{{{{ALS}}}}}}}}
this is a man to man hug with lots of back slapping!

<small>[ May 02, 2003, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Still Trying To Save It ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">{{{{{{{{ALS}}}}}}}}
this is a man to man hug with lots of back slapping!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ditto and to quote one of the characters in the movie 'Kangaroo Jack' "Will you excuse us while we share a non-gay male bonding moment?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks, Kily. I'm sure I've read that thread before as I'm a big fan of Mortarman's efforts, but I am going to go read it again right now.

STTSI - I still owe you an email, I promise I'll get to that as well. Just been a lot happening. Your Plan B letter was fantastic, by the way.

You're right, I sometimes think it's impossible that my M will recover, but I do think deep down that I will always have a slight bit of hope even until a Dv is finalized, if the process is started. I suppose the natural reaction of a WS to a Plan A letter is to fight back with anger, or do SOMETHING. I hoped my W would just back off and give it some time, but her response did not surprise me in the least. In fact, if you look back in this thread, it was what I predicted would probably happen if I sent the letter to W.

My W's family have known about the A and heard my side since it started. They tell me one thing, and W another. They are supportive to her (but don't bring up the A or even tell her that they know) and they tell me they want us back together. They are the only common bond between W and I and they live 8 hours away. W and I have no common friends, though my closest friends and family do know about the A. I have not given full details to other friends because I don't want it to be awkward for her if she ever does come back. If I told her that all my friends knew the whole story, she'd never come back due to the shame of having to face all those people.

Now, on her side, her friends and OM of course know she is married and having an A. I'm sure her bosses and co-workers do as well. Even if they try and hide it at work, they all knew she was married and can see her rings are gone. And the office grapevine is thick there, so it's certainly spread all around that she is seeing co-worker, yet still married. The only thing I can't control is what she told them about me. To them, I can be an abusive husband, a neglecter, someone who WANTS a divorce, etc. They will all believe what SHE tells them and I can't do much to change that, not knowing any of them. I have never met her friends, OM, bosses, anyone. That life was always totally separate since she started there a year ago.

NC is pretty easy for me now. Probably only because I know that any contact I make is going to likely cause W to bring up divorce. Knowing she wants the papers filed now, it's easy for me to want to stay away from contacting her. It will at least force her to think a little more before jumping into Dv. So I will be fine. No worse than I have been the past 6 months living without her, basically in ALMOST NC anyway.

Well I don't really have any female friends at all right now, so I'm in a good spot. There's no temptations or anything, and, while I do get lonely, I have plenty of friends and family to hang with and talk with and it helps a lot.

Thanks for the manly, platonic hug. Much appreciated.

TMCM - Ditto to you as well. Thanks for the bonding. Solidarity rules.

ALS