Just had to do a quick bump since I realized I should be the one who had post #200 in this thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

ALS

Ugh, I am tired of this already!

Why must she keep contacting me? How do you think I should handle this one. Just got this in email from W:

--
I think I may have forgotten some stuff. If it is in teh box I took just let me know. I haven't gone through it yet. Are my cook books still in the cabinet? I don't think I have them. Maybe I do. Just let me know. Also do I have my Disney Ticket. Thank you.
--

First off, why not go through the box before she contacts me? Second, she knows she doesn't have her cookbooks, and they are still here at the house. But I don't want her coming back here AGAIN already for more things. And it's just really over the line for her to ask for her Disney ticket, we went to Disneyworld for our honeymoon and there was a day left on each of our tickets, if she wants it I'm assuming she wants to go on a trip there (presumably with OM) and USE THAT TICKET!!! Unreal. First off, I'm telling her I lost the ticket, no WAY is she doing that, I can't think of any other reason she'd ask for it, she's not taking our friggin honeymoon Disney ticket on a vacation with OM. So that just upsets me. And she probably knows I'm not stupid and can figure out why she'd ask for it. Is she trying to throw that in my face to upset me?

The idea of Plan B was no contact, and she's still managing to hurt me! Why does she do this and how do I address it?

I am thinking of just ignoring this email. What do you think? You can see her tone is very cold and unfriendly as well.

I guess at least she didn't ask about the divorce papers again.

ALS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Why must she keep contacting me?" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you know very well the answer to your question.

If she truly wanted a divorce, she would have filed and had the papers served to you a long time ago. But she hasn't, has she?

I suspect that the reason why she left a few remaining items of hers over at your place, was for the sole purpose of you not forgetting her. She may not want to be with you but she probably doesn't want you to cut her off completely from your life. Her behavior is totally in line with the vast majority of WS's once their BS's have gone to plan B.

You obviously can't force her to come back to you, but you most certainly can stick to your guns and not let her attempts to derail your Plan B, have any success.

Hey TMCM,

Quick reply! Thanks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, I dunno, I still sort of believe that she forgot stuff, I mean I could see her leaving stuff behind as a reminder of her or for an excuse to come back weeks from now, but not 2 days after she was just here. I really think she just wants to get all of her stuff out now.

And I still also believe the only thing keeping her from the divorce was the money to file (she has none), and also the shame, since she knows she is in the wrong for the A. She doesn't want to have this be a court battle, she wants no-fault because it's cheap, easy, and it saves face for her. She doesn't need to look at a judge and say she had an A, etc etc. And I know that because of this I could drag it out forever, but I don't want to spend the money fighting or risk losing everything I worked for either.

The Disney ticket hurts the most, actually, because her asking specifically for such a strange item has to tell me she is making a deliberate attempt to hurt me, to basically tell me she is going to vacation with OM. A very gutsy move to even ask for that, but maybe she is just trying to hurt me or get a rise out of me.

So you're suggesting I just ignore the email? That is what I want to do, I want to stay in this PB -- All this stuff she suddenly needs so much has been at the house for 6 months, there is no immediate need for any of it.

Of course, nothing stopping her from just showing up at the door one day either, she knows normally when I'm home. I don't want to spend my days hiding and holed up from her either. And if I ignore her emails I'm guessing she'll just show up one day, angrily, to get her things.

Maybe this is all normal WS behavior. I dunno. I've gotten 3 emails from her (short, cold, mean ones of course) in the past 3 days, probably the most ever since D-Day, perhaps it's just her way of lashing back at the PB letter.

ALS

I don't discount any details your providing because you are there but you vindicate my assertion that she doesn't want you to move on and forget her because she could have gotten all her remaining stuff and be done with you totally once and for all.

Her mean behavior is sooo typical of a WS that has been told you can't have your cake and eat it too. Remember that since you have expressed a desire for marital reconciliation, she has grown comfortable with the knowledge that she can come back to you at any time she wishes. But now that you have taken that away from her, she is extremely irked and is lashing out at you with her hurtful e-mail comments.

I would suggest, that you get all her remaining items and drop them off at her place after she arrives from work. That way she has NO excuse whatsoever to contact you and sabotaging your plan B.

<small>[ May 04, 2003, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Yeah, I am really wondering why she didn't get more of her things when she was here. Her car is small, though, but it looks like she didn't even walk through the house and check on any of this stuff. Either she wasn't thinking or she just deliberately left stuff for an excuse to come back. And maybe that's because she wanted to see me, to talk about divorce, whatever, who knows. It's obvious she's trying to hurt back, there was just no reason to bring up that Disney ticket at all right now. Not sure what she's trying to do there.

At least I'm glad to hear someone else say that this is typical. The dynamic has certainly changed since I sent the PB letter, I can tell she is at least convinced (or trying to convince me) that she wants to cut ties, every contact has to do with getting something of hers from the house, as if she wants it all out so we can divorce and just be done with each other. Without kids, that really would be it. We may never see each other again.

My Plan B letter was very kind, and let her know I still loved her and that she could still talk to me about reconciliation, but not unless she left the OM. So while I'm not sure that I gave her the message that I took away her chance to reconcile, but that letter certainly awoke something in her. I'm just not sure if Plan B has her lashing out because she is upset about losing the ability to cake eat, or if she truly is trying to finish things between us once and for all.

I don't know her new address, and I am not welcome at her place, though I guess I could box up her stuff (except for some large furniture that I can't really ship) and just show up unannounced (I'm sure she'd flip out at that, I am not welcome at her apartment and never have been).

Basically for now I think she can just sit and wait, lord knows she made we wait forever on email responses since this A started, if anything I have the right to do that, and really, my opinion is all this stuff at the house now can stay here until we have a final decision on the M: reconcilation or divorce. If we divorce, I can bring her that stuff then. No reason to talk to her right now unless it's about reconcilation or Dv.

ALS

Do her parents have her address? Contact them and ask for it if so. Or pack it all up and send it to her work. Okay ... maybe the second isn't a good idea.

I wouldn't stress too much about the Disney ticket. You don't know why she wants it. If she doesn't have money, how will she afford a Disney trip? PA to CA and back, plus hotel, plus food/walking around money ... of course, you know all of this.

Stick to your guns, remind her of your boundaries and wishes for no contact, but be pleasant.

I admire you quite a lot.

More non-gay hugs to you.

I have been following your situation for several months now and feel like you are doing the right thing for the following reasons.

First, your WW is the one who is not willing to put forth the effort to rebuild your marriage. She is young and seemingly immature, as she should be at 23 years of age. She is acting like a child who thought that marriage would be great....at least until it got old. You can leave this releationship with your head held high, she will be the one to bear any guilt. I feel that she is be doomed to face multiple failed relationships, and several divorces, because she is a taker.

Second, You cannot force her to change. I can take a dog and train it to do wonderful things, but your wife is not a dog in that respect. She wants what she wants, and wants it now, no matter how it affects you. She is a cold blooded person that seems to make herself available when it suits her needs, but never yours. You are the third wheel, the last one to call for company at this point. Stick to PB and let her have a taste of the pain that you have been putting up with all this while. She is seeing OM and not once thinking about how you are honoring your marriage vows while she is being intimate with him. It is time to move on, there are lots of young women who would love your loyalty and attention, trust me.

Finally, what would stop her from using you as a launching pad into another affair if she moved back in with you? Do you honestly want to take her back knowing what you know now? I know that MB's is all about rebuilding marriages, but you have beat this dead horse to long now...find someone that will love you and treat you with the respect that you deserve.

These are just my humble thoughts on your situation. I hope that you take them as a testiment to your fortitude and not as insults.

Whippit - I'm sure her parents have her address. That's a good idea if I decide to go that route. Again though, I suspect she'll come back and ask to come over anyway because there are a couple things of hers here that I just can't ship, so it will sort of defeat the purpose. One way or another, she's going to need to get back into the house at some point to get the last of her stuff. I just will make it a point to not be here again, or at least avoid her at that point.

Who knows with her, she's already starting to work up a new credit card debt from what I gather talking to her. She was never much of a saver when it came to money. She may be looking for the ticket to sell, or more likely, she is going on a trip and thinking of ways she can save money. She'll just throw the rest on a credit card.

Thanks again, whippit, I think for now I am going to stick to my boundaries of no contact by not responding. The next time I remind her about NC, I am sure she is going to remind me that she wants me to sign the Dv papers, too.

MFisher - Believe me, I have had those thoughts as well, through all of this, especially just after D-Day. I freely admit that I made mistakes in our relationship, but she made the ultimate one by betraying her vows and then refusing to even work on our marriage when given chance after chance.

I gave up trying to teach her or force her to change long ago. I realize that I could only show her love and understanding, but I cannot control her actions or make her change her mind. Only she can do that. At least it gives me peace to know that I am doing all that I can.

As for your final thoughts, well I think anyone whose spouse has an A has those fears if reconciliation is to happen. Which is why, if given the chance (while I realize it's a long shot at this point), I would certainly need to be convinced that it was worth trying and that she was sincere. I think by now I'd be able to tell. If I can say anything for her, it's that she knows that she doesn't want to come back to me or the marriage, and she's never pretended otherwise. It would certainly make her life easier in a lot of regards, but she still chooses to continue her new life. And at least she hasn't lied to me about that. I believe that right now she knows and feels she doesn't want the marriage, and can't be faithful, and that's why she doesn't come home.

I know one day these will all be faded memories and things will be better, I just wish Plan B wasn't so hard at the moment. I expected it would be easy since I'd be in NC but she's obviously trying hard for that NOT to happen. I don't want contact for a couple reasons, one simply because seeing her hurts, but also because I believe that her next chance for contact is her chance to start the divorce process. It's a tough spot to be in, for certain.

ALS

ALS-

Plan-B is WORKING! She's baiting you for contact.

Continue NC and go with an alternate way for her to get her stuff.

Disney is just another one of her pieces of ammunition to get a reaction from you. Stop falling for that!!!

Hang in there, you're doing great.

Thanks, Kily...I was thinking the same thing, that Plan B MUST be having some sort of effect. She certainly seems to be looking not only for reasons to contact me now (I mean, how about checking through your stuff before you write me to ask if I have something?)...But she is also looking for ways to get a reaction from me as well (the Disney ticket).

For now, I'm just ignoring her email. I asked for NC and she should respect that. This stuff all sat at the house for a half a year and NOW she suddenly needs it immediately? It can wait. Not only that, but she took weeks to respond to my email at times, sometimes never responding at all. I'm sure she won't like getting a taste of her own medicine, but that's the order of the day.

Thanks for sticking with me Kily!

ALS

ALS-

I'm going through something similar. Reading your posts makes me see things clearer...Keep it up...

ALS- I agree with the others, ignore the emails. In your PB letter, did you name a friend or some independent third party that can act as your go-between? If so, than maybe you could give her stuff to that person and they could get it to her.

Stay the course! Kily is right, Plan B is working, her dream world is starting to fall apart.

<small>[ May 05, 2003, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: Still Trying To Save It ]</small>

I checked out your thread and made a few comments, Kily. Sorry things are so bumpy for you as well but you are doing great.

STTSI - Thanks for your support. Strangely, my W and I have NO common threads of people here, which has made it harder to keep us together, I think. Because she moved here and had no one but me, her only friends were my friends. She didn't make her own friends until she started seeing OM at work, and all of her friends and friends of OMs from work, one big circle. I have never met a single one of them. Relatives as well, none in the area. So I don't have the luxury of a 3rd party that can pass messages or items between us. Makes it tough.

It's nice to hear that you folks think PB might be having some sort of effect on W though, I certainly didn't expect to hear from her at all, and I do see your point that she is trying to get me back into the picture and also being hurtful.

Hopefully she'll give me some peace now and get the message.

ALS

ALS:

I think you're doing great as well. I believe the advice you're getting is very good.

I find that I understand the need for plan B better now that I'm in a position not to "need it." It's to protect you from the hurt.

But since I've gotten to this point, where I believe we should probably divorce, with my W and I living together and communicating better over time, that I will need the time between now and a DV to "firm up" whatever our post-M relationship will or should be. Figure out what to do with our property and visitation, who's going to have my son live with them (for the few more years before he can be out on his own). In short, I've gotten here with the feelings of hurt at her actions and words getting less and less with time, so I don't need to use plan B to protect my heart.

Wish things were different, and they certainly could change in the months to come, but here I am.

Here you are, too. You're going to be fine. I wouldn't be at all surprised if your marriage is fine, too, eventually.

Hang in there,
-2long (fka Qfwfq)

ALS- My W and I were in the same spot as you in regards to friends. Almost all of her friends were my friends. She really didn't have any of her friends until she met OM. Yes her OM was someone she worked with. She used to hang with OM and this new circle of friends all the time and I was only invited to come out once.

I told my W that in order for recovery to work she had to quit her job and agree to NC with OM and that entire circle of friends.

Please don't think you situation is hopeless. You and I have traveled very paralel roads.

2long! Nice to see you back to the old name. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The advice I've been getting at this thread and from Cerri is world class. I'm so appreciative to you all you don't even know. The people I have met here are just incredible, wonderful, giving people. What a great community.

Sorry to hear of your possible Dv, remember to just think everything through and do what is best for you, don't let runaway emotions or a bad day drive your decisions. I've done that in the past and wished I could take it back. You sound like you have things under control, as always, I admire your fortitude and your resolve.

As for my marriage, well, we'll see, I haven't given up yet and don't think I will unless Dv papers are finalized, and maybe not even then. We'll see where the wind takes me.

At least W was able to stay away from contacting me today. Thank goodness. Anyone want to place any bets on how long it takes her to get irritated enough to write or show up? I joke about it, but I really wish she would just give NC a chance and stop sending attempts to spite or hurt me.

STTSI - You are a true inspiration and wow, I had no idea how similar our situations are. They really are VERY similar indeed. I owe you an email too, don't think I forgot. The situation with your W and OM and all her friends being through him/work is EXACTLY what I am dealing with. I am so glad your W agreed to your NC and is coming home. It gives me hope to see that it CAN be done.

Here's hoping for better days!

ALS

Had a thought today and I was wondering if anyone has any opinions themselves. Some of you have been through this and may already even know the answer, or what the answer was for YOU anyway.

I think a big factor in my W's resistance to work on the M, both right after D-Day and probably even MORESO now that I'm in Plan B may be stubbornness, and also just the admission of guilt or wrongness. I wonder if the state of mind of the WS is basically that so long as they don't come back to their M (whether the A ends or not), they were NOT wrong in leaving. Coming BACK to the M means admitting guilt, and makes the A and leaving all something that was wrong. But they can justify their actions so long as they never come back to the M. In their eyes, they may never even have been cheating.

So, is it possible that I've made this even worse or increased her resolve by going to Plan B? Not that I would have it any other way, mind you, I know this was the right thing to do. But isn't it possible that being even more distant than I have already been will only have her wanting the M less and less? I guess that's why PB is a last resort and Harley warns that it usually doesn't work, because after Plan A not giving any results, PB doesn't have any effect on changing the spouse's mind. Considering I was barely communicating with W even in Plan A, and she didn't come around, I wonder how NOT communicating with her is going to suddenly make her want to come home.

I guess I'm just wondering, if anyone's been through it, what triggers that change in the head of the WS that suddenly says to them, "Hey, I want my marriage back, I want to swallow my pride and admit my mistakes and work through this!" I wish I had more faith that my W would suddenly just have this epiphany, but knowing the type of person she is has me thinking that she'd rather avoid the marriage, even if she WANTS it back, just so she doesn't have to admit she was wrong in what she did, in other words, her pride is more important to her.

Discuss?

ALS

ALS- I'll send you an EMAIL later....

ALS,
I know exactly what your thinking!
That is why I am so afraid to go to Plan B.
I feel like I am giving WH exactly what he wants.
I think that is why he thinks its better to move on, can't face the music and reality of what he has done, so it is easier to just go through with a D!
I don't see how a Plan B would make him change his mind, but I have to believe that it certainly can't make things any worse... I don't know anymore.
Good luck. I'll be watching to see how it goes for you.