Hey Kily!

Doing well, yes, and very thankful to you and many others here who have given me so much help, advice, and support with this situation.

Strangely, I'm not doing much less than I have done in the past months. After a few weeks of despair following D-Day, I basically already started living for ME. That has been constistant and not really changed. I have been making weekend plans with friends almost every week. I have taken vacations (have another one in California next weekend coming up). I have been buying things for myself, keeping the house in order, working on some projects, and living my life.

What HAS changed is the amount of time I devote to thinking about my W and my situation, and the amount of despair I feel. I felt nothing BUT numbness and despair for the first month or so after the A. But that has lessened with time. I used to spend practically every spare hour I had either here on this site, or reading relationship books. I still do those things, only much less. I have learned a lot but I don't make this situation the driving factor of my days anymore. It comes after I focus on my job, my life, and things that I want to do.

So, I'm not sure if that's what you were looking for, but that's basically where I am. I'd be lying if I said I didn't think of W often and every day, but it's a lot less than it used to be, and I also find myself thinking I will be fine without W more often too (though I also miss her, too).

Anyway, not sure if that makes sense, but there ya go. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ALS

ALS you might want to check carolkh's 180 degrees . Her story is awesome and very inspirational.

ALS-

THIS was the post that I was referring to when I suggested that you to think about doing a 180. Read this!!!

I think it would REALLY work for you.

I have read this thread in the past and I read it again today as well, just to refresh my memory. It is a great example of the way that 180's can work so well if they are given the chance to work.

I tried to use such tactics as best as I could when I had the chance. However, Carol's situation and mine were different in a lot of ways.

-- First off, she had the necessary contact of their child that necessitated they stay in general contact. Even if they had nothing else to talk about, they still had to see each other due to that, a luxury I don't have at all. W and I have no reason to see each other.

-- I have started a true Plan B, and told W I no longer wish to see her or speak with her unless she leaves OM. So I won't have any further opportunities to incite these feelings of jealousy or that she is losing me, unless she imagines them, as she won't be seeing me or hearing from me at all.

-- She was a female and her husband was the WS. I think the jealousy thing works a lot more on males than it does females.

-- Her husband never seemed to lose interest in her the way my W did. He was a true cake-eater who continued a physical relationship with his W even when he was having his EA (doesn't help my wife is having full blown PA and has been since it started). My W shows no interest in all in any activities or communication with me, hasn't since she left, Carol's situation was a lot different there.

With a sitch like Carol had, where the spouse is still in regular contact and you have those chances to incite jealousy, and also can detect that there is still some level of interest, it's easy. For a guy like me, who's in Plan B and even before that had very little interest or chances to even see or talk to W and try any of those 180 tactics, it's not a technique I ever really had the chance to even try.

ALS

Hey all,

Good weekend, I did a lot of stuff for me, bought myself a few presents, worked on a few projects, and the like. As always, keeping a busy schedule is a way to keep your mind off of things, help detach, helps me feel better during this Plan B.

Days like today though when I have more time to think, mindless days at work, my mind still wanders back to my W, and today I even found myself strangely getting a bit angry again about what happened...It's funny, I can remember D-Day like it was yesterday even though it's getting close to 7 months since. I know I can't change it and there's no use worrying about it, but the mind goes off on its own sometimes.

Plan B has generally been good for me so far. I have been practically in PB since W moved out anyway, with her contact being so minimum, so it's not much of a change in environment for me. The feeling that I at least stated my thoughts on the ongoing A and took away her ability to be able to contact me whenever she needed is good, though, makes me feel like I at least have some control back.

But also, I am sort of lacking hope today. I don't want to feel that way. I try and look at the positives...She still hasn't pushed the Dv papers on me, and she could have done that. But that's about the only positive I can see. Of course, I have no idea how happy she is with OM at the moment, but considering she was immediately ready to leave me forever after reading the PB letter, I assume she is still comfortable enough in that new relationship to not value our marriage. Sad, but a fact I must face.

I will continue on with PB as long as I can, though thinking through my W's point of view, I just can't picture how she'd suddenly come out of the blue and email me or call or whatever and say she wants to work on things. Even if she missed me, or if her A died, I have a hard time believing she will swallow her pride and just face coming home. I wish she'd realize that if she would be willing to just open up and talk about things and TRY, it would give us such a great chance to succeed. But I fear she may find it easier to just run somewhere else, even after the affair ends (if it does).

For now, I'm still here, hanging in there, just not seeing a clear way to get into recovery with W right now. PB gave me control over my life, and that's good, but as far as the M goes, she's still in control of whether it will survive.

ALS

ALS- If you want to keep busy than stop over here! I have yard work to do, a garage to clean, and lots and lots of paperwork to do! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

No really, you are strong. PB isn't easy. I lost all hope and I actually filed the paperwork to push our Dv along as I lost all hope for our M. It took my W three months to approach me about recovery after the A ended. I too had some of her stuff at the house and I sent her a letter stating come and get your stuff (in a nicer manner than that) and that is what prompted her to come back to me. Yes out of the blue.

Don't lose the faith my brother. You have a three month waiting period in your state right? There is always hope! I remember a cartoon I had that had a frog being eaten by a bird. The frog was in the birds mouth and the frog was reaching around and choking the bird. The caption below read: Dont EVER give up! If I find it I will email it too you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hey STTSI! Nice to hear from ya.

I have plenty of work to do as well, believe me...I'm keeping busy but lately my W has been in my thoughts a lot for some reason, I have been reflecting back on the events that took place around D-Day and feeling anger all over again. Over 6 months later, I don't want to be angry anymore.

It's hard to explain, I want to be able to forgive her unconditionally but right now I can't do that. It's like I know I'd be able to forgive her IF she decided to try and work on the M, but she has not stepped back from this affair at all since it started, and I resent her for that and still carry anger over it. I'm ashamed of that, I want to put it behind me and not let it affect me, but it does.

I am doing my best to stay strong, don't worry, I'm not cracking under pressure or going to do anything stupid. I will be honest, I have thought of how I will go about contacting her about starting the divorce process, or asking her when she plans to bring the papers over. I just see that day in the future right now.

I have been in Plan B almost 2 weeks, and haven't heard from her in, let's see...10 days...That's not too much I guess. I just think it's going to stay this way for a while. Of course, that's what Plan B is. But it's not really doing a lot for ME like it's supposed to, either. I'm doing all the same stuff I was during Plan A and feeling the same feelings, too.

I still know there is a chance she may just suddenly come out of the fog and want to come home. It is of course that thought that keeps me from just filing myself. I realize that is a possibility, it just seems unrealistic now, knowing my W and her personality, I just can't picture a scenario where she basically admits she was wrong and wants to come home. I don't know if she has it in her.

And yes, even if we file, it's 3 months before it becomes final. Which is why I don't plan to fight it too much if she makes an effort to start the Dv process (which she still won't do, other than say "we need to sign these papers" every once in a while). Even if we file, she can still think about it for 3 more months before she loses me in her life forever. I hope she realizes that we have nothing to tie us together anymore, and she will have to say goodbye to me forever. Perhaps it's that idea that still gives me a chance. I may not have been the most attractive person around D-Day, but maybe a future with me doesn't seem as bad now as it did then.

Time will tell, I'm hanging in there, just having some out of control feelings these days.

ALS

Update? You okay? Just checking in, my friend.

Hey Whippit, thanks for checking in on me.

The update is really that there IS no update. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Things got better as the week went on, I guess I was just having a couple bad days earlier in the week. It will happen sometimes. As the week went on, I felt better. It helps that I am going on vacation for a few days starting tomorrow. So that will be nice. It's always great to get out of the house and take a break from everything, cleanses the mind and the soul.

I haven't heard from W at all since the emails after D-Day. So I've been in Plan B for 17 days total, and it's been 2 weeks since I got an email from W. I have not communicated back to her at all. I am feeling strong, and still hopeful that a miracle may happen and she'll want to work on this marriage. I just can't envision a way that will happen right now.

I guess in the meantime I could ask you all what you think I should do if W should show up at the door, or call, or write...Chances are it would not be to talk about reconciliation, but rather to push for getting together for Dv papers. She has no reason to call "just to talk" anymore. Of course if she contacted me about reconcilation I'd be open to talking, but otherwise I suppose I should just ignore W?

Anyway, I guess I am doing all I can right now. I am basically just keeping as busy as I can with my life, making weekend plans with friends, keeping the house clean, working hard at my job, and doing fun stuff whenever I can.

That's about it I guess. Plan B hasn't really overall made me feel any better or worse. The rollercoaster of feelings remains, really...I guess I have been practically in Plan B since D-Day anyway. I do feel good that I took a stand on contact though. At least W is listening to that. Again, I guess it's a good sign that she hasn't pushed hard for Dv papers right now, she could easily mail them or drop them in the mailbox and she's not doing that. I'm not sure if it's out of laziness or out of doubt. I just hope she still got the message that we CAN talk if she wants to come home.

That's about it for now. Thanks for asking. Would love to hear from anyone with any other words of wisdom or ideas. In Plan B there's not much I can do, I just don't picture this as affecting W any differently than before, really. I feel like she's still just doing what she's doing with OM and her new friends and quite satisfied with that.

ALS

<small>[ May 17, 2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: ALostSoul ]</small>

ALS- I will try to send you an email soon, I have just been too busy.

Anyway, regarding your question, what do YOU want to do? If she wants to talk about reconcilliation you said you would talk about that. What if she wants to push for Dv? How do YOU feel about that? Is that what you want? Are you ready for that yet? Remember, you can always stall the Dv papers. If all she wanted to do was chat than I would polietly remind her of PB and ask her to leave. Make it all about YOU, how you are doing this to protect your feelings of love for her so that when the A is over WE (you and the Mrs.) can repair the M.

In the meantime, you know what to do. Remain busy! Where are ya goin' on vacation? Anywhere fun? How about commin' to sunny Minnesota to meet the MN gang of MB'ers.

Enjoy your trip!

STTSI - No prob, I get too busy sometimes to get back to emails and posts as well. Take care of yourself and your wonderful W first and foremost!

Honestly, if she came over to the door or left Dv papers in the mailbox, I would sign them. I still don't WANT a divorce but I also, even moreso, have realized I don't want to be married to a girl who wants me out of her life so soon. After a year of marriage, for her to have had the A and then subsequently spent these past 7 months not once showing a sign of wanting to come home, that's saying something to me. So, since I don't want the divorce myself, I am not ready to pursue that on my own. I can remain in Plan B...For now. But if she were to pursue Dv by contacting me about it, I believe my answer would be to go along with it, letting her know that it wasn't what I wanted but I had given up and am letting her have it because SHE wants it so much.

Of course, who's to say how much she wants that divorce, since she still hasn't taken the initiative to get it started. She has hinted at it now and then, and I just ignore it, but I do believe she is still looking for me to bring it up or take some initiative, so she at least cannot, in her mind, take full responsibility for it. I think she is basically hoping I will divorce HER soon, so she has one less thing to carry guilt over. The end result is the same, but I think in her twisted WS logic, it will make her feel better if I divorce HER rather than she divorce ME. Like she has already hurt me once by the A, she doesn't want to hurt me again by aggressively pursuing a divorce. Does that make any sense? Just my interpretation on how I believe she may feel. Could be wrong.

Going to California, some business, some pleasure, should be a nice mix. Long flight, but fun. Never been to Minnesota, I should come out and say hi to you all sometime. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Anyway, going to get some sleep soon, plane leaves VERY early. Pray for a safe flight there and back for me! Talk to you all again soon.

ALS

Well I just came back from vacation to this lovely message on my answering machine (W knew I was on vacation from reading my webpage, so she obviously waited to call until I wasn’t home for some reason)…

It says (exactly) in a fairly quick, cold sort of tone:

“Hi ALS it’s W - I just called I wanted to arrange for a time to get together sometime in June, um, since the car insurance will be up then I wanted to transfer the car over, and sign the papers and get everything done with, if you could send me an email and let me know when that would be great, thanks.”

I’m very sad. What should I do? The car insurance IS due and I knew this would come up, but “sign the papers and get everything done with” means the divorce papers (so she is using the car insurance for an excuse to get together to do that as well I guess).

I am considering seeing if I can transfer the car over without her being present, though I think she will need to be there for that, and then another part of me is thinking if she is again pushing to file maybe I should just get together and agree. So again, she has broken the NC rule, around 19 days into PB.

What should I do?

ALS

Hoping that, at minimum, your vaca was what you needed.

It is sad, amigo. But I'm not sure what is more saddening. The more real possibility of the dissolution of your marriage or your wife being so flippant about it.

You've accomplished much and no one can take it away from you.

Perhaps this apparent next step will be the best thing to happen to you, no? In any case, it's a shame that your wife is giving up on such a great guy. A bigger shame is the reason why. What can you do?

Vacation is always great, thanks!

That's a really good choice of words, there. She is quite flippant about things very often lately and that bugs me. That's why I wanted to transcribe her answering machine message verbatim. It's just the snide, glib way she's traeted me since all of this started. It's just very immature and off-putting, the way she's been able to dismiss the marriage so easily. Perhaps it's a combination of her age and just her lack of true commitment to a marriage that's just over a year old.

As you've said, I have grown a lot over these past months, and perhaps this is just what the next step is meant to be for me. It's still very sad that she could quit on me so easily, but it's also something I can't fight forever, either.

If it comes to pass, I'll sure miss her and wonder how she's doing, as I truly believe this will be a Dv where, once the process is finished, we'd likely never see each other again.

ALS

ALS:

If it's possible 2 take care of the transfer without contacting her (except perhaps 2 notify her after the fact), I'd do it that way.

Don't let her do the "by the way, while we're at it, let's sign the DV papers" package deal thang ("Act now, and get a DV FREE!!!"). Make her deal with that on its own. It's THE issue, not the insurance. And you can still bide your time if you're not ready to sign.

It also might tweak her gain knob in a good sort of way... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

You have mail....

Just an update...

Called the notary in town, there is no way to transfer the title of a vehicle without both parties being present. So now, exactly what I was afraid of, she's found a way to make contact and I have to be there. The insurance expires at the end of June and she wants to start her own policy, the only way to do that is if the car is signed over to her.

My only other option is to continue to ignore her at all costs and then just keep paying her car insurance. That's about it though.

If I do decide to contact her, I will definitely take your advice, 2long, I will set up a place where we can go that does vehicle titles, that's it. Then if she brings divorce papers as well I'll refuse to sign, tell her I need to look them over and take them with me. Then I can just go back into no contact again, really.

Considering the title transfer and divorce paper signing are both things that can be handled by any notary, though, I can clearly see she is attempting to accomplish everything all at once. Probably feels she can minimize the guilt of initiating a divorce by doing it like that, too.

I'm just so frustrated and saddened with this today. Plan B has not been working at all. She won't leave me alone and she just keeps hurting me.

ALS

ALS:

"I'm just so frustrated and saddened with this today. Plan B has not been working at all. She won't leave me alone and she just keeps hurting me."

Then pay the insurance, if you feel you can afford it. Then, plan B WILL be "working." Not that I agree with you. It is working, she's just trying 2 mess with you. Don't let her. And if by not letting her by doing something GOOD for her (continuing 2 pay her insurance), it'll 2bly thwart her efforts 2 break NC. She doesn't want 2 have 2 think or face consequences. This will make her think.

-2long

Dear ALS:

I am sorry it has come to this and I agree she is taking a coward's way out, however given this quote of yours:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Honestly, if she came over to the door or left Dv papers in the mailbox, I would sign them. I still don't WANT a divorce but I also, even moreso, have realized I don't want to be married to a girl who wants me out of her life so soon. After a year of marriage, for her to have had the A and then subsequently spent these past 7 months not once showing a sign of wanting to come home, that's saying something to me. So, since I don't want the divorce myself, I am not ready to pursue that on my own. I can remain in Plan B...For now. But if she were to pursue Dv by contacting me about it, I believe my answer would be to go along with it, letting her know that it wasn't what I wanted but I had given up and am letting her have it because SHE wants it so much.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">aren't you setting yourself up for prolonged pain?

The analogy that pops in my head here is pulling a bandaid off slowly or quickly which is better?

I don't see what you gain by not meeting her and just at least accepting the papers (if they are there, I could also read her message as just the car). I do agree that you read and understand them first maybe even have an attorney review them for your own protection.

ALS this has been a long time out for you for a relatively short marriage with no show from your W that she is maturing or growing at all from this. Is it not better for your recovery to just let it go and move on.

Just a thought ALS you are in the trenches and know the whole situation much better than I.

Either way I wish you peace and happiness.

Jack

2long,

I'd like to do that, but Cerri also thinks that it's just painful for me to sit back and wait for W to call again and demand we get together to get these papers signed. So I'll likely write her back a very short mail, naming a time and place we can get together to take care of the CAR TITLE. I won't mention the Dv, and if she brings papers with me or even asks ahead of time, I won't sign them that day. I plan to pick a place that specializes in car titles only anyway so she can't try and force the Dv issue that day, and a limited time frame (her lunch hour) so there's no time to communicate or argue about it.

If she brings the papers, I will take them home with me. Then I can hold onto them as long as I want, and choose if I want to sign them, perhaps asking her one last time if she is sure she wants a divorce from me before doing so. Giving her the final option.

2long, you are also right in that she might be just lashing out again, hurting me in the only way she knows how in Plan B. I truly wanted to just have some time with NC but she hasn't even been able to go more than 2 weeks without lashing out at me. Unfortunately, it's never an attempt to reconcile or talk, just her trying to get more of her things or talking about divorcing (without EVER using the actual word "divorce", which she STILL has never let cross her lips).

Jack,

Hey, thanks for your post. It was very thoughtful of you and very profound.

I've thought of this many times myself, and the exact reasons you give are the reasons I am finally close to agreeing to sign her divorce papers. I haven't seen any indication from her that she has ever wanted to come home, not once. She has, at least in our few conversations, been consistant in not wanting me or our M anymore. I'm not sure if it's just out of stubbornness, her being happy with OM and her new life, or both. I may never know.

It has been 7 months and we were only married for 13 months before the A started. So I feel I have given this enough, I just wish there was more I could do. Jack, I think you understand it pretty well though, I have not told anything here that's not true, and I guess the bottom line is that for whatever reasons she has, my W just doesn't want to come back, no matter how hard I am willing to try.

From where I stand, she has not matured, grown, or changed at all. She hasn't learned anything about commitment or maturity or faithfulness. I feel sorry for myself sometimes for what I have had to go through, but I also feel sorry for her. She has to live with what she's done, and with the lies I am sure she's told OM and her friends about me and about herself, and she may have to experience this over and over again in her life.

ALS