JL - Aha, I see what you are saying. Yeah, I guess I could always hit the bookstore and get the forms I need and just have them ready myself, too. That is another approach, sure.

I've had a good time in my life, I have -- I was single for a lot of years, until I met W really (that was my first steady long term relationship, another reason that another one seems so elusive to me I guess) -- I guess I just felt like that part of my life was over and now I was moving onto the next phase. It was a tough transition but I made it. Sure, every day wasn't great but it was worth it for the good moments. I guess W felt differently there.

But I agree with you wholeheartedly regarding fixing her problems. She freely admitted to me that she was a depressed person and needed someone else to make her happy. That is what she looked to OM for when she lost faith in me being able to make her happy. Then again, I do also need to consider that I was just the best option at the time, and that OM CAN make her happier than I did, too. But I realize the odds aren't in the favor of that, too.

But you understand how my W was pretty well. She did depend on me for her happiness, and she was not happy with herself, or around me. Not really ever, but thinking back, she did get more depressed with herself the longer we were together. I find it sort of distressing though that she says that she can be so "very happy" with OM if she can just get out of this marriage. Then again maybe it's just the cycle starting over. I also feel some resentment for all the time and money I spent to get her into the country from Canada, even though I know her motivation was never to live here anyway, and now she is living here off that citizenship I provided. That hurts, too.

I guess that because she still sees me as this negative factor in her life, so she can't really feel any emotional care towards how all of this has made me feel. She doesn't care anymore. It's sad, because when that phone rang at midnight last night and I saw it was her on the caller ID, my first instinct was that I was concerned and worried for her, that something might be wrong. I guess I am just still a very caring person.

I'll be honest, I guess a lot of the hurt I am feeling now is because of the rejection, and also because there is apparently someone else that is capable of making her happier than I am. I think that is what hurts the most. It's probably not the right way to feel, but that's what hurts. I am sure it would hurt a lot less if she was leaving to be happy on her own, but the fact she left after a year of marriage for another guy and he's making her so happy...Well, that's what bugs me a lot.

Sure, the thought that prevails here is that a cheating spouse with an OP is destined to be unhappy, as is the OP...Though I do consider in my case, if I consider this as just having been a BF/GF relationship as she does, that she could truly be happier with someone else, then I feel like a failure. Those are the thoughts that I need to expel. However, I guess, like you say, I am worth more than having someone in my life who can cheat on me so easily and who doesn't have any concern for my feelings.

ALS

Ready2Try -

Hi, nice to hear from you!

I actually had some faith in that as well, maybe she was just filing because she felt she was out of options, or that I didn't want her back. But I have been very clear on my feelings for her and that she can come home and we can work on things.

I think her line today of just saying that I am keeping her from her happiness says so much. It doesn't seem like she is divorcing out of anger, or desperation anymore, but just because she is happy with her OM and that she needs to cut these ties with me, so in her world, she is a normal, single girl in a relationship again.

I truly think that once she officially has a divorce, in her logic, she will somehow see everything she is doing and has done as alright. I feel that WS logic many times states that so long as they DON'T come home, they never did anything wrong when they had their A. It was when they came back that it became wrong. So in her mind, I feel that by her getting this divorce, she will have a clean slate.

I don't have a lot of faith in a change of heart from her anymore after the papers are filed, at least, I can't count on or hope for that. I need to truly somehow TOTALLY let go now. Easier said than done, I will miss her, and likely never see her again in my life after the process completes, and that is a tough one.

I love her and I want her to be happy, but I sure don't want her to be with OM and I don't want him to be happy. I don't want to seem vindictive but I think the only way she will perhaps learn is for that relationship to go bad on her as well. Then again, maybe she'll just have another guy on the line before that happens anyway. Who knows. I do feel that as long as OM is fulfilling her needs as he seems to be doing, she has no reason to even consider coming home. It would take her losing him for that to change.

Trying not to stress...

ALS

I guess my next decision is this: I feel obligated to respond to W's email now, considering she was unable to accept my first proposal for a day and time to meet to transfer the car title (and for her to give me her divorce papers).

So first of course I need to simply state a new date and time I would like us to meet to take care of that.

I also plan to tell her that I feel she is responsible for paying for the divorce since it is what she wants, not what I want.

There are also a couple of "maybes" that I am considering as well. What does everyone think of these?

1) I feel compelled to tell her that while she is feeling stressed and that I am standing in the way of her happiness, that I hope she realizes that I have also been stressed and she has now stood in the way of my happiness for what she has done.

2) I have been avoiding telling her this, because her family asked me not to, but since D-Day I have been in contact with them and they know all about the A. W claimed to me that she told them the whole story but in truth, she never did. They heard it from me and never from her.

So I am considering just letting her know that I have spoken with them, that I want to "clear the air" about that and be honest with her. Of course, since she claims she already told them, it shouldn't be a big deal, but what it can at least do is make it more uncomfortable for her to bring OM into a home where her family knows that he is the man she cheated on her husband with.

Of course, her family already knows this, but she isn't aware of that -- So perhaps it can at least put some pressure on the A. I should have done this a long time ago, but I was afraid of W's reaction -- Now it doesn't seem to matter anymore so why not?

Thoughts?

ALS

Got your email with those questions and would like to let them rattle around in my head for a while.

Back later....

C

ALS

don't know all the details of your case, so apologies if this is inappropriate, but my 2c worth would be:

1) You are NOT standing the way of her happiness. You have offered to make her happy in your marriage, to which she AGREED (by marrying you). She wants out - her choice, and you are not standing in her way, just standing up for the marraige and yourself a little. She is not standing in the way of your happiness either - it IS your belief (and was hers when she married your presumably) that you could have happiness TOGETHER. You want to honestly and diligently search for that with her and are giving her a chance to happiness here too. She has nothing to lose!
2) I'd tell her, but let them know that you intend to tell her first.

S.

ALS,

I am so sorry to see you like this. I am getting so frustrated reading about how your wife is treating you through this. She is clueless ALS.

Just some things that I have noticed reading from afar. I know you are depressed and hurt right now. The phone call and the email response you got opened up the wound all over again. There was a time, I want you to remember, about two months ago or so when you seemed happier. You were alone but were having fun. You went on a vacation and met someone that gave your ego a boost. Remember that? Your life isn't over at 29. Please. It is just starting.

A couple of things that I would do and this is only me speaking. First I would get her to play by your rules when it comes to the registration transfer. Just because she doesn't have a car doesn't mean that you should all of a sudden work under her terms. Make her squirm a bit. Tell her that you can't do it that week that she is OK with. Give her a date for the following week when she can do it at lunch. You have the rest of June right? So push it off a bit. As for the papers, I would just see them and sit on them for a while. Make her wonder what you are doing with them. As for splitting the cost.. Forget it. She has to realize that this is what she wants and she is going to have to pay for it. Even if it will be hard for her to do so. Don't give in on this. Have the OM pay for it. Why don't you bring that one up to her. Lets see how serious he is in wanting a relationship with your wife. Tell your W that he should pay for the whole thing if it is that important to them.

Yes tell her that her parents know your side of the story. Make her ashamed if she can feel that. You have nothing to lose. You have played the good guy for so long on this. If she can't see it now I'm not so sure she ever will.

There is something to be said about talking to a lawyer on you're own. Just get some advice. Personally I don't think she has a leg to stand on. You owned the house before she was there. It is still in your name. She cheated and left you. See what the lawer says. Heck you may be able to sue her for divorce.

I guess what I am trying to say is that you have a whole life ahead of you. You know you can be happy. You felt that little excitement in Florida a couple of months ago and it made you feel good. There is someone else for you out there. You are not a failure. Your wife is and she will continue to be unless she wakes up and realizes what she has done. In the meantime play by your rules and not hers. Make her squirm. She'll get what she wants in the end because that is what you want as well. Don't let her play games with you about "happiness" and who is standing in the way. Get the car done in a couple of weeks on your terms, take the damn papers and sit on it. In the meantime talk to a lawyer on your own and protect yourself from any number of possibilities that could happen.

ALS:

Sorry I am late to your situation, and if I get something wrong here, please let me know. But, here is a few observations.

Number one, I think JustLearning is right. You are in Plan B now. You should be getting your life together, after the hell of the A and of Plan A. Each day you work to get yourself moving makes your wife less and less relevant to your future. eventually, as the Harley's state, your love for her will be gone and Plan D will be easy. So, you need to start putting this together

Next, go back to my threads in November, December and January. watch as I moved from Plan A to Plan B. Look at my wife's reactions I filed divorce paperwork with the court, but did not set a date (we are a fault state and I filed for divorce based on adultery and desertion). I then went to Plan B three weeks later. Two weeks after that, my wife went to Florida with the OM to meet his family. A week after she got back, she counterfiled for divorce.

Then we hit January. I was fed up and I wanted to start getting on with my life. I started getting things together, and working on myself (going to the gym, etc) in order to be prepared once the divorce would be final. But I still had not had a court date filed...just the paperwork on file with the court. My wife had a copy of the paperwork and knew what was going to happen once I started pushing it forward. But, it was right after Christmas, when my Plan B was in full swing, that her life began to unravel.

She tried to pull closer to the OM...going to Florida and all. But as my wife admitted a few weeks ago, inside her, she was beginning to feel differently about me. I was leaving. I was in control. I was getting healthier. I no longer talked to her or saw her, except in dealing with the kids. For awhile, that was okay. But as the OM began to LB because I was no longer in the picture for them to be defensive against, her fantasy world began to crumble.

Meantime, I had no idea this was going on. I had pulled back completely and was preparing to move on with my life. I had even begun to talk to someone that I might want to get to know better once I was divorced.

Then one Sunday in late January, three days before my lawyer was scheduled to start the process by asking for a courtdate, mysteriously my wife shows up at the door and wants to talk. was she still seeing the OM? Yes, sort of. But, she was beginnig to see the light.

It took 2 more months before my wife came around fully and came home. Slowly over that time, we began to spend more time together and talk about a future. she has now been home almost two months. But guess what? The paperwork is STILL filed.

The point I am trying to make here is that now that you are in Plan B, you need to follow it. If she tries to contact you, stay dark. You dont have kids together, so there really is no reason to talk, short of her wanting to talk about reconciliation. The car issue is nothing. As others said, pay the insurance for awhile longer. Ignore her wanting to transfer. She can do so on your timetable and your terms. Once the divorce is filed, then it will be time to split things up. Until then, let her just be a non-entity.

I agree with JL that your wife does not look like a candidate for getting her life together anytime soon. But, you have gone through this process. See it through. you can get your life started right now, without signing anything yet. Just ignore her, and begin to set up your life so whether it is Mrs. ALS, or someone new, things will be ready.

You are three weeks into Plan B. Read up on the Harley principles of Plan B. Plan B is not a short amount of time. You still love your wife, and if she showed up tomorrow ready for your marriage, you would accept her back. Plan B is for either that to happen, or you to get to the point where you no longer love her or care for her.

Then it will be time to file, on your terms. Until then, begin to get things ready. Your hell is coming to an end, one way or another. Get ready for your new life. It will be with a new wife someday. Either your WW will find some maturity, or eventually you will move on and find someone more deserving of you.

In short, after just going through this…I would say to let Plan B finish itself out. When you no longer have those feelings for your wife, then file Until then, go dark and let her be "trapped" in the life she has created. Then, when you are ready, send her the $100 no-fault divorce paperwork that YOU drew up and tell her you are ready then.

You have gone through this process wonderfully. Finish it. Re-read about Plan B. Get yourself together. I, like JL, don't give much hope to your wife right now. But in January, I didn't give much to my wife either. And then, she showed up at my door.

In His arms.

DEar ALS:

My heart bleeds for the pain you are going through.

I think JL said it best. I would just add to his thoughts. Who cares who signs or pays? The bottom line is to move on with your life ALS.

Your W just adds to your pain with all this contact and your reviewing all this about who pays, who fills out the forms. It just doesn't matter right now. Get the forms make sure it contains nothing that can hurt you and sign them. Then live your life with all that you have learned.

You will prosper with what you know and you will make a better choice for yourself now.

Peace to you ALS and start the letting go process now.

Jack

<small>[ May 28, 2003, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: willmakeitwork ]</small>

ALS,

I don't know what Cerri is telling you, but listen to her. I think you have gotten some very good and thought provoking replies from many here. MortarMan, put a nice point to it I thought. Do the plan B, and prepare for your future. I like that.

ALS you said a few other things I thought I would respond to. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll be honest, I guess a lot of the hurt I am feeling now is because of the rejection, and also because there is apparently someone else that is capable of making her happier than I am. I think that is what hurts the most. It's probably not the right way to feel, but that's what hurts.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hello ALS, this is the way everyone feels when they lose a loved one by the choice of that person. It is normal.

You however used the operative word in your statement APPARENTLY. If her depression was getting to her during the marriage, then just about ANYONE will look like someone capable of making her happier. But, it isn't true. Why? Because her depression is an issue SHE has and it won't change no matter who she is with. Even if she is happy with OM, the odds are high that having children will send her into the same depression. She must address her issues and sometimes it is physiological in nature. You can do nothing in this regard.

One final thought here. Are you hurting for what you lost via the OM, or you hurting because you still lover her so much? This is a very hard question. Because the two feelings are so often mixed together. But consider this. If you were to meet your W today, and you knew that she had done to her exH what she has done to you, would you date her? Something to think about.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am sure it would hurt a lot less if she was leaving to be happy on her own, but the fact she left after a year of marriage for another guy and he's making her so happy...Well, that's what bugs me a lot. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ALS, I am going to say this again. THe other guy got no bargin with your W. WHy? Because her issues have not been addressed. He is just the opiate of the moment, and there will be others. ALS, this is not about you. It really isn't. In one year of marriage you had no real chance to screw it up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

Seriously, You are not that good of a bad husband. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You just are not made up to be that bad. Isn't that annoying??? You simply aren't BAD TO THE BONE. I can hear a tune coming out of that one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If you two had been married 10, 20, 30 years and you neglected her, or some other thing, then we all would be telling you to address your failings as an H. But, ALS you never had a chance to mess up.

I know this hurts, because you do love her. I know you feel abandoned, because you have been. I know you feel like you LOST her, but you did NOT lose her. She went wandering off in search of medication for what ails her, and she hasn't found it with OM. No, OM deserves to have his heart broken, but it won't happen. THat is my guess. Why? Because he is clearly a player with no respect for marriage.

So ALS, I know you hurt, but quit looking behind you, quit looking at the ground, and look up. Your future is out there. If your W chooses to join you great, if not: GO FOR IT.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

ALS,

JL has it exactly right. Listen to him. Your wife is no longer your problem. Actually, in a weird way, I feel sorry for the poor dumb OM. He is inheriting a mess. How do I know she is a mess? look, if she ever gets her act together, she certainly will see him for what he is...and she will run from him. As long as she is still with him, understand that she is under the influence. And she is still a mess. And, you dont need that in your life.

Move on with your Plan B. Get things worked out in your life. Get yourself emotionally ready to be done with your wife, and to move on with your life. Then, and only then, do you proceed with the divorce. Until then, what's the rush? It is her that is unhappy...thus, I am sure the OM is getting that unhappiness brought home to him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . God will take care of you. Finish things out the right way. Either your wife be wake up, or you will have completed your journey and will be ready for who God will bring to you because of your faithfulness and obedience.

Hang tough. As JL said...go for it!

In His arms.

ALS-

I'd advise you to be very careful with regards to laws in your state regarding splitting assets (ie equity in your house). Just because you purchased the house before you married doesn't necessarily mean she's not legally entitled to half. Lots of attorneys give free initial consultations so I'd check on it to be sure or atleast do some google searching on the subject. And yes, you should let her parents know the latest turn then tell her what you've told them. Good luck to you....

JL wrote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, you go get the no fault and present it to her. She hasn't done it yet, and then split the cost.

Now, let me go further. You are just 29. I didn't marry until 31. At 29 I was truely having a very very good time in my life. I feel you should be as well.

Next, at the risk of maybe making a few of the female readers unhappy, let me say this: helping women, or being the White Knight is a wasted effort. Pure and simple.

Women with problems, have ... problems and you aren't going to fix them, any more than they will be successful in changing you. ALS you are looking for a woman that is your partner, not your step child. You are looking for a woman that WANTS to be with you, but doesn't NEED to be with you. ALS, you are looking for a woman that you find has no habits that drive you up the wall, someone you would rather be with than the ... guys.

There are woman out there like that. THey can love, be loved, and be a partner. They are happy with themselves, and therefore will be happy around you. That doesn't mean that marriage is a walk in the park, but really it is easier than it seems on this site. IF you find the right woman. Marriage should not be a struggle, it should be a partnership between people that share many views of life, and love.

I AM NOT DESCRIBING YOUR W AM I? I don't think so.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JL and ALS-

There are bells ringing in my head here! This is so true and it's so easy to see NOW, but was so hard to see while I was going through my whole inquisitive stage.

The whole problem with my "R" with X was that this was the dynamic going on. He needed to FIX me and when I was no longer receptive, it didn't work anymore. Jl has described today's kily in his second description. I was the person in his first description prior to my self discovery quest.

ALS. I'm sharing this with you because your wife and I are the same. Do you want to waste your life waiting for her to be ready to heal, or do you want to have a partner that is your equal?

The crap about not being able to find someone is just that .... CRAP! You know you can. It's just fear of a new life. Trust me, I'm living this issue out myself...

Thanks JL. It's just one more step that you brought me towards my recovery.

Responses have been practically overwhelming today! Thank you all so much for your support and words during a very tough time for me. You have no idea how much the fact that you are all here and taking the time to check in on me means. It really makes a big difference, so thank you.

I am going to reply to a couple posts at a time here, so my message isn't a MILE long, and also so I can get to them as I have the time. They all have some great points and ideas that I'd like to address so I do want to go through them individually.

Salerio --

You made such a great point about her happiness with your statement above. I guess from her world, I am standing in the way of her happiness because she sees the fact that she is still married and unable to have this relationship with her OM without guilt the last stumbling block. I honestly believe that she feels that, once she is divorced, her slate is clean and her life is "starting over" with OM. Maybe she will even be able to convince herself of that, I'm not sure.

But I do know this -- When she has her first problem or bout with depression after a divorce from me, at least she won't be able to blame any unhappiness on me any longer. Every day can't be all bright and rosy for her, and perhaps she will someday find out that it was never me that was preventing her from being happy at all. It was her.

Of course, I have to also consider that OM may be a better match for her, and that he can and will make her happier than I ever did. Of course if this happens, there was nothing I could have done either. But she will always have to live with the fact that she betrayed me and lied to me, broke our vows, and that OM is no better for carrying on a relationship with a married woman.

I wish she could see it your way, that this was never about me standing in the way of her being happy, but about me learning and working to make us happy as a couple. To help us be happy together by learning from each other.

As for telling her parents, I know if I let them know I intend to tell her, they will try and stop me or urge me not to. They are just so afraid of W's wrath (strangely enough)...They already lost their older daughter to drug abuse, she is estranged from them now, I guess they are scared of losing W the same way. So they just let her do whatever she wants and support her, including leave her M for an A. Maybe it's a good thing I'm getting away from this family anyway, who knows. Sure doesn't agree with my morals at all.

ALS

Mark --

Hey, great to hear from you again, you and I have been doing this for quite a long while, I know we're too busy to keep on top of each's other's situations like we used to be, but I really appreciate your checking in today, I could use the support!

I am so sorry to see you like this. I am getting so frustrated reading about how your wife is treating you through this. She is clueless ALS.

Well, you know how frustrated that I feel as well, then. I continue to be in awe at how easily she can dismiss everything like it's no big deal.

Thanks for the words of encouragement, though, I do hope that I can find someone to love again if this is how my marriage is going to end. I am sure there are so many great women out there that I could have a relationship with, I just hope I can find one.

First I would get her to play by your rules when it comes to the registration transfer. Just because she doesn't have a car doesn't mean that you should all of a sudden work under her terms. Make her squirm a bit. Tell her that you can't do it that week that she is OK with. Give her a date for the following week when she can do it at lunch. You have the rest of June right? So push it off a bit.

I actually think this is a GREAT idea, how about the rest of you? She was trying to take back control by again picking a new place and time to do it. Why should I play by her rules now? When I reply to her, I will tell her I want to do it at the place I picked, and also that it won't be that week, but later in the month. She had a chance to get this done this week, but now she is going to have to wait for ME. I think I'll even wait a while to write back to her now. Last night I was in such a hurry to respond, but why should I be so sudden? She can wait.

As for splitting the cost.. Forget it. She has to realize that this is what she wants and she is going to have to pay for it. Even if it will be hard for her to do so. Don't give in on this. Have the OM pay for it. Why don't you bring that one up to her. Lets see how serious he is in wanting a relationship with your wife. Tell your W that he should pay for the whole thing if it is that important to them.

We basically just have papers we bought right after D-Day, a divorce kit, so we don't even plan to involve lawyers at all. So it will cost her a hundred bucks or so filing fee, that's it. She can come up with that or let OM give it to her if he wants her divorced so bad. I am not paying a dime for HER divorce.

Yes tell her that her parents know your side of the story. Make her ashamed if she can feel that. You have nothing to lose. You have played the good guy for so long on this. If she can't see it now I'm not so sure she ever will.

That's how I felt, too. I have nothing to lose. There's no reason she should have an easy time bringing the man she cheated on her husband with home to meet her folks.

There is something to be said about talking to a lawyer on you're own. Just get some advice. Personally I don't think she has a leg to stand on. You owned the house before she was there. It is still in your name. She cheated and left you. See what the lawer says. Heck you may be able to sue her for divorce.

I have researched this a bit and believe it or not adultery in this state doesn't even mean she gives up her right for her half of what was acquired during the marriage. It almost never does. So from what I know, she would still likely be entitled to some of the house and anything else we bought or invested in during our marriage. It's not a TON, but I'd likely owe her $10,000 or so in assets or cash at least, plus we'd have all the lawyer fees, etc. Just doesn't make a lot of sense for me financially.

There is someone else for you out there. You are not a failure. Your wife is and she will continue to be unless she wakes up and realizes what she has done. In the meantime play by your rules and not hers. Make her squirm. She'll get what she wants in the end because that is what you want as well. Don't let her play games with you about "happiness" and who is standing in the way.

Thanks for the encouragement, I really need to believe in myself and that no matter what happens, it was the right thing for me. It is just hard to see the end coming, but I don't want to hold on to something that is just not meant to be, it is a waste of time and a waste of my life to do so.

It will certainly be strange to think that she will be out of my life possibly forever after this, I will always wonder about her, and be curious to what happens with her and OM and her future. Hopefully I can just let go of all of that and put it in the past and not care, as she has seemed to be able to so easily do so with me.

Thanks again Mark, great response. I'll check on your latest soon, haven't read your posts in a couple weeks over in Recovery.

ALS

ALS,

My advice was just one of so many other peoples that you are getting. I guess that what I was saying was that it is ok to get a little angry and have her play by your rules for a bit. She is trying to get control of this and take advantage of your goodness. I just think that you are at the point where you don't have much to lose. Maybe if she sees this side of you and has more time to think about this then maybe just maybe she will start to think. If she doesn't your no worse off.

Good luck.

Just want to get to a couple quick replies here while I make my dinner, JL and MM, your replies are coming later. Stay tuned!

WillMakeItWork --

Thanks for the sympathy. It's definitely tough right now, feeling a lot like I felt right after D-Day.

I need to stop feeling sad and sorry and really try and focus on my life and put W in the past. It is just tough to feel the rejection...I think that is the worst of it really, just the self-esteem blow from rejection, and the occasional loneliness.

But your philosophy is sound, I mean there is a 3 month waiting period here anyway, not sure if W is even aware of that, but that is plenty of time for anything to change with her if it's going to in time. So there's no sense in trying to drag out the Dv process. I won't jump through hoops either, I will likely take her forms and look them over in due time. Or take one of the other options suggested here. Not sure yet, gotta talk to Cerri too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Litchfield --

Thanks for the tips. I have not talked to any lawyers so I should probably at least do that, especially if I can do so for free for an hour or whatever. I suppose I am lucky in a few regards, that she is not after anything (just the older vehicle because she needs something to drive). Other than that, all she took were her things when she moved out. And there are no disputes on any property and no kids, so it can at least be a clean break. And it least it was a short M and I still have a lot of time. So there ARE a lot of positives, of course, that doesn't make it hurt much less, though.

Thanks for the opinion on the parents, too. I do think I can make it sound as if I just wanted to be honest with her about it, but at the same stretch I know it will make it awkward for her parents to meet OM once she is aware they know about it.

Mark --

It's definitely a last-ditch effort to be a little angry and emotional about things, but I have been stifling it for so long. Sure, there is a SLIM chance that if I am totally kind throughout the process and OM LB's that she may reconsider, but I do think it's also important she know my feelings and how hurt she has made me.

On the other hand, my W has always been one to want what she can't have...So I have also considered that, if she feels me slipping away and that I'm not interested, THAT might turn her around as well. However, again, as long as OM is in the picture I am fairly certain that neither tactic would matter.

Kily --

I'm glad JL was able to enlighten you, he has enlightened me with his words many, many times. And it is true, that my W is definitely as he described (I'll elaborate when I reply to him). And you see that you also had a lot of those qualities.

I understand where you are coming from, that it is silly for me to waste years waiting for my W to come around, but a part of me still wonders if that DID happen, as it did for you, would I be able to take her back? I just wish there was a way to accelerate it, especially if I knew it were possible. I have very little faith, though, if we part ways through divorce, that we will ever meet up again, let alone get back together.

I do hope I can find someone, as I said it's just hard to meet people these days, but I will hope for the best. It's a big adjustment to make but hopefully it will all work out in the end for me.

More replies later...Thanks everybody.

ALS

JL, my wise friend --

Cerri has always given me great advice, though she's quite busy, so I am waiting to hear her latest thoughts on how I should respond to W's last email and if there is anything else that would be appropriate to say. I have gotten some great options here as well from you, MM, and others.

Basically, I have come to the point where I had to accept that the divorce will happen. There is no more doubt that W has always wanted this, every chance she has had to bring it up she has, and not once has she expressed doubt on it. So I need to face that at the very least, the divorce is going to get filed.

So that leaves me basically now just in control of how easily and quickly I want that to happen. It won't do me much good to stall for a long period of time, it'll just aggravate W and I see no point in that. However, the idea of having my own papers together and giving them to her is an interesting one, and something I will give thought to.

Of course, my initial instinct after getting her mail last night was to call her to express hurt over what she said, or to immediately respond. I'm glad I didn't do that. I needed time to think this all through, and the more I think about it, you guys are right, I need to keep control here. So she can wait a while for my response, and then she can wait until a week or so after her "proposed week" to get this done. If she wants to delay it, I'll delay meeting her even more.

After that, I can take her papers (unless I bring my own) and again sit on them as long as I want. Again though, I don't see much point in sitting on them for long, it won't do any good. It's not like me NOT signing them is going to make her suddenly change her tune, I know that now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One final thought here. Are you hurting for what you lost via the OM, or you hurting because you still lover her so much? This is a very hard question. Because the two feelings are so often mixed together. But consider this. If you were to meet your W today, and you knew that she had done to her exH what she has done to you, would you date her? Something to think about. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I actually ask myself this very frequently, have been for quite some time. I question whether I am trying to get her back just to overcome my rejection and some sense of competition or if it's out of love. And you know, I think the answer changes from day to day. Love is strange that way. At times, I think no way would I want to get involved with a woman who has done this to her X, then on the other hand, I could also look beyond that with love and hope that she learned from it and would never do it again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You however used the operative word in your statement APPARENTLY. If her depression was getting to her during the marriage, then just about ANYONE will look like someone capable of making her happier. But, it isn't true. Why? Because her depression is an issue SHE has and it won't change no matter who she is with. Even if she is happy with OM, the odds are high that having children will send her into the same depression. She must address her issues and sometimes it is physiological in nature. You can do nothing in this regard. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well unless something changes with her she's not having kids, she never wanted children and I don't think she intends to remarry anytime soon. Of course that can change, especially if OM proposes (as I think she'd accept for fear of losing him otherwise, as he is her security blanket). You make a great point though in that when she was unhappy here, anyone who showed her attention became her savior. Frankly I didn't think it would last, which does make me wonder if OM may just be better at making her happy than I am/was. It is, of course possible. It's also possible she may finally see a doctor, get Anti-D's, and OM will get all the benfits of a W that doesn't suffer from depression anymore.

We all like to think here that a WS is always worse off when they leave...And while that may be the case more times than not, I think I also need to realistically consider that she may truly BE happier with OM than she ever was with me, don't you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ALS, I am going to say this again. THe other guy got no bargin with your W. WHy? Because her issues have not been addressed. He is just the opiate of the moment, and there will be others. ALS, this is not about you. It really isn't. In one year of marriage you had no real chance to screw it up. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for saying that, I know I was not a PERFECT husband but I have always thought that no matter what it was, she was wrong to run away so soon, without even giving us a chance to work things out. Like you said, she needs her "opiate" and when she got bored with me, she needed some new excitement. I suppose eventually she will settle down, and maybe OM is the time she will, I can't assume her R with him will fail, but the odds are against it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Seriously, You are not that good of a bad husband. You just are not made up to be that bad. Isn't that annoying??? You simply aren't BAD TO THE BONE. I can hear a tune coming out of that one. If you two had been married 10, 20, 30 years and you neglected her, or some other thing, then we all would be telling you to address your failings as an H. But, ALS you never had a chance to mess up. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Basically, I am just the proverbial nice guy who got victimized a bit in this relationship. I met my W at a time she needed someone and I fit the bill for her, yet I never knew it was going to be temporary, of course. She moved here from Canada, lived with me almost a year, unable to work or leave the house, without us having a second car and her citizenship, and her depression grew and grew. I loved her, and I had every intention of spending my life with her, but I sometimes do wonder if we got married for the wrong reasons, and had she been able to work without being married to a US citizen, if we would have gotten married that quickly.

But anyway, that's in the past now, can't change it. But me being a nice guy also means I'm a sensitive one, so despite the fact that it's out of my control, and her depressive nature was what caused her to run from our marriage, it still hurts and makes me sad. Even though we had some tough times and she just made it tougher with this, I still miss her all the same, even though I probably shouldn't.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know this hurts, because you do love her. I know you feel abandoned, because you have been. I know you feel like you LOST her, but you did NOT lose her. She went wandering off in search of medication for what ails her, and she hasn't found it with OM. No, OM deserves to have his heart broken, but it won't happen. THat is my guess. Why? Because he is clearly a player with no respect for marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well you have to admit she has at least found medication for now, perhaps just as she found medication with me...Otherwise she wouldn't be happy or so ready to leave me despite my best efforts to get her home.

And of course, OM was explained to me as a nice guy, a savior, whose own parents split due to infidelity so he HATES infidelity...In fact when I confronted OM via e-mail on D-Day he told me to take care of my W and work things out with her...What a NICE guy huh? So I did that and W just blew me off and kept pursuing him until he gave in. I watched it all happen through e-mail, it was very saddening. At first, OM didn't even want to get involved with her, and she just pursued him endlessly until he gave in. Told him whatever she could about me to make me look horrible and make him have to take care of her. And I did my share of LBing those first weeks so it wasn't tough for her to convince him that he was her knight.

Ah, well, what's done is done. I think I have learned a lot and I know I am a good guy. W is losing out but I can't help but feel rejected or maybe even resentful, just because she was the one to break the vows yet she has not had to be alone for a day in all of this. Just ain't fair!

Mortarman, I will respond to your great posts tomorrow, I am sort of typed out tonight, I hope you will check back!!!

ALS

Mortarman --

Okay, your turn! Thank you for checking in on me, by the way, I have been very impressed with the advice you have given others, it's an honor and a pleasure.

You are correct in that I really need to be focusing on Plan B as much as I can. It seems like just as I start to do that, W is calling or writing me begging for this Dv. Really I guess the TRUE play in PB would have been to ignore her over and over again, of course she may have just given up or she may have filed on her own. But she lives and works so close to me, I'd hate to have to live like a hermit because I would imagine soon she'd just start showing up at the house until I gave her an answer.

I could have taken the hard-line approach and refused to respond to her, refused to give her a divorce, but I didn't feel that made any sense. She wants out and has wanted out since the A started. She is unrelenting. I needed to admit to myself that as much faith as I have in us being able to succeed as a couple, she now sees me as an obstacle, not as a partner any longer.

It sounds like during your PB, you were still sort of in contact with your W as you knew what as going on with her as far as where she was going, etc. For me, I don't want to know ANY of this stuff. So, basically my new strategy is to detach as much as possible, and accept that divorce will likely be the outcome. If she has some great epiphany, I can accept that when the time comes, but I need to stop being seen as an obstacle to her happiness first.

So, once she gets this paperwork signed by me, as she so desperately wants, it will be a 3 month wait until it is finalized. During those 3 months, she will have NO reason to contact me. She can find out if her life is all she dreamed it would be with me out of it totally. She can no longer blame me for any sort of unhappiness she experiences.

MM, how long did it take from the point you discovered your W's A for her to come around that she wanted you back? What concerns me is that my W has been at this for over 7 months now without a single moment of hesitation. Her actions have sadly been very consistant, while very briefly I may have seen sadness in her about what happened, she has never once considered coming home an alternative.

I like your attitude about just feeling as if it is over though and moving on. I need to accept that as well, for my own good. I need to truly prepare and expect a life without her in it now.

I know you are recommending I just keep blowing her off, at least until I am ready for these things, but I feel I am ready. I'll give this another few weeks but then sign the car paperwork, then maybe another few weeks and sign the divorce paperwork. That's sort of my internal timetable at this point. By the time all is said and done, it will have been a year from D-Day to divorce. We were only married a year before D-Day. I think I'll have given her, at that point, a very fair amount of time to come around.

I will feel I have seen it through at that point, I believe. As you and JL feel, my W will likely not have her life together anytime soon. On the surface she may seem that way with me, or at least feel this divorce will make her life perfect, but chances are she will have her own backslide as well.

I will re-read PB stuff, and in the next few weeks, decide for sure what I want the next steps to be. I have not responded to her email, nor do I plan to until well into June, or later, depending on what I decide. You have given me a lot to think about.

ALS

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I can do this.... really I can... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

C

<small>[ May 29, 2003, 12:34 PM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>

Cerri --

It's gotta be the most amount of traffic and words in one of my threads in such a short period...So piece it out little by little like I did if it helps at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You can do it!!!!

ALS