I'm not sure what to say, ALS. You've fought the good fight, and you faced a really tough situation with dignity and pride.

Are you okay? Or are you down in the dumps right now?

No, of course not.... I think you were brave and courteous and did what you had to do. It just makes me sad. I keep waiting for the day when all the sad things that happen to everyone don't make me <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> but it doesn't seem that's going to happen any time soon.

How are you? What can we do for you?

C

Cerri/Kily,

Thanks for your posts. It's nice to have the immediate response, and nice to have you here.

I'm not sure what I or any of us expected today. Did we expect she would run into my arms all tearful, say she loved me, and that she didn't want the divorce after all? Of course not. I think what happened today was, pretty much, what we all expected. Wasn't it?

I guess I envisioned a lot of other scenarios that MIGHT have happened. She might have gotten confrontational about the Plan B letters, she might have thrown some sort of INS stuff at me, she might have struck up a conversation of some sort with me. But instead, she just, with as few moments and words as possible, agreed and cooperated and left.

It just always hurts to be so close to her and feel like a stranger to her, feel like I mean nothing to her, and to see how easily she has turned her back on the marriage. She really is writing it all off. I think it's like JL said on the last page, my W didn't want to be committed, she didn't want to be in a marriage. And this is her way out.

Here's the sad part though -- I think we may have been wrong about the INS stuff. And wrong in filing. Maybe I should have let her struggle through this process on her own. I certainly don't see any indication that she is trying to stall things or concerned about any immigration issues. Either that, or she thinks she won't have any problems (and chances are that she won't anyway). But I am starting to wonder why I am doing all the work and making this process practically hands-off for her. So far, this divorce has taken me hours and hours of my time and study, driving to the courts, preparing papers the right way. It's taken about 10 minutes of her time. If that.

I wish I didn't love her or have feelings for her anymore. It must be so much easier for her to sit there beside me in these situations. I actually like seeing her, I like looking at her, I like talking with her. When she's with me, to her, I think it's the exact opposite. It's unpleasant business for her. And that makes me sad. I can't help but wonder if she knows I still have these feelings towards her, or if she thinks that, with my filing along with the way I carried myself today, I don't want her back, either.

My W has a talent that not many folks I know have -- She's got the ability to totally turn her back on something and never look back again. I'm one of those people who likes to drive past old apartments, visit old friends, go to my old hometown, keep in touch with everyone. As long as I've known W, she has had this ability to drop something and never look back again. And I'm the latest casualty. I don't feel like she'll even miss me, or that she cares about me any more.

Sure this all sounds like a lot of gloom and misery. But hey, I'm not surprised by what happened today. In fact, anything other than this would have surprised me more. But it's still sad. I have to remind myself that I can't change her, I can't make her love me, I can't make her come home. I tried my best to show her how much I still loved and cared for her through all this, now I think she senses I've given up, too. She signed everything so easily and happily. There was no hesititation or doubt in her mind.

I guess all I can ask is that all of you continue to offer me your words, your support, your laughter, your opinions...I expect to have a summer generally with NC from W now, until we're close to finalizing everything in September. I'll still be here. Not sure where life will take me, but I hope that one day all of this will be a faded memory, and not the hurt that I've been carrying with me for the past 8 months. Over this time, everyone I have met here have been so inspirational and helpful, and have gotten me through the tough times.

I just hope I truly have done everything as best as I could have to save this.

ALS

ALS:

I've been following your story since you first came to the Emotional Needs board and I did post to you a few times at the beginning. I just wanted to say my eyes filled with tears as I read your last post. The part about you and your W sitting in your cars at the light did it to me.

I'm so very sorry for your pain, but try to remember....you've made a lot of good friends on this board and they care very much about you. I don't feel that you only have to come on board here to talk about your W for these people to want to hear from you. They've helped you through a lot and coming to this board is just like you being a phone call away from your friends. I know we would all love to hear about what's going on with you and how you're doing. Please don't forget that. You're still important to everyone. Keep posting.

God Bless You,
Trygsus

{{{{{ALS}}}}}

It was difficult reading your experiences knowing that my journey is nearing a similar point. Did you do everything you could have? Probably not, especially in the beginning, but I think you made a nice recovery in trying to repair your relationship. But I'm not saying that your actions, the filing, were not justified. In fact, I think the way you handled everything will help you recover your sense of self-worth and overall peace, more quickly.

We each have a lot of dreams and expectations in our marriages and relationships. Separating from someone that doesn't want to be with you or live with you is one thing, broken dreams are very different, and in my experience, more difficult to handle. It is like grieving over something that never happened but yet it was all so perfect. Weird isn't it.

Take care of yourself. I hope I handle myself with as much composure next month as my marriage is terminated as you handled yourself today. I know it doesn't make it any easier for you but, thanks for sharing. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

HoFS

<small>[ June 23, 2003, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: HofFenceSitter ]</small>

ALS:

You've come 2 a 2rning point, perhaps, but definitely not the end of the road. Your W is still embroiled in her A, but even by her own admission, she'll tire of him at some point and move on again.

I don't know if whether you had behaved differently would have made any difference in the outcome of your meeting. I think what's important is that you're here, at this point in the process as well as this forum, because of your desire 2 save your M, but even more importantly, because you wanted 2 take what you've learned and stay on the moral high ground, when many would instead just give up.

We may never know whether your interactions with your W on these rare occasions you're meeting will have a positive impression on her, but I bet they will. Maybe years from now, but someday, is my thought.

This is all about helping people by responding thoughtfully, rather than reacting thoughtlessly. You've done a great job in the past several months, helping yourself. And maybe you've helped your W a little in the process, though it might not be obvious or she might not want 2 admit it.

I do also want 2 chime in here and tell you that I care what happens 2 you.

regards,
-2long.

ALS, sorry I havent' been around to check on ya. Been busy with life here in Tampa, where if anyone cares the Tampa Bay Storm just won arenabowl 17 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Happy belated B-Day. I'm not far behind, just celebrated #27 yesterday myself. Will be celebrating 8 years of marriage with the lovely Mrs. Rohde. I'm not bringing this up to bring you down ALS, I'm bringing it up to give you hope. Not for your M, as it seems your W has already let you slip away. Hope for the rest of your life. You worked hard fought a good fight. Might things have been different if you had done something different?? Maybe, probably not. Doesn't matter. You gave it the best you had. It wasn't good enough for her, so she's not good enough for you. I can't imagine why it wouldn't be, the lovly Mrs. Rohde (Mrs. MTD) was even impressed by your actions. Don't know if that helps. I'm not going to get all cliche and stuff saying that there is someone out there for you. I will say that there are women out there who will appreciate what you have to offer, and I expect when this is all said and done you won't have any trouble finding one/some when you're ready to. Or maybe one of them will find you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Remeber, as my lovely W said, there are plenty of great women out there searching for the great guys like you. I know this is the last thing on your mind right now, but what the h-e-double hockey sticks, I'm a glass half-full kinda guy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . You know you have our best wishes, as I'm sure those of everyone here on this board. Just keep posting and let us know how you're doing, KK??

MTD (aided by the brilliant mind of the lovely Mrs. MTD) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And BTW, as for the link to that other post, shame on you. I went there to check out some great insight (and yes I did answer icedancer's Q) and the thread had already taken a nasty turn. I got so worked up I had to chastize a poster then go play with the kids to calm down. Some people....(jk) Instead of reading some great feedback/insights I ended up Hulking out..LOL

MTD

(MTD in his best although still not very good Hulk imitation)..ROAR..MTD SMASH!!!!!

<small>[ June 23, 2003, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: madly_truly_deeply ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by madly_truly_deeply:
<strong>And BTW, as for the link to that other post, shame on you. I went there to check out some great insight (and yes I did answer icedancer's Q) and the thread had already taken a nasty turn. I got so worked up I had to chastize a poster then go play with the kids to calm down. Some people....(jk) Instead of reading some great feedback/insights I ended up Hulking out..LOL

MTD

(MTD in his best although still not very good Hulk imitation)..ROAR..MTD SMASH!!!!!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Huh?? What did I miss??? I didn't see a link! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Silly me, I was trying to catch up on some work today and missed something... what WAS I thinking?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

C

tyrgsus:

Of course, I remember you! Thank you for following my story for such a long time. I know it's been 8 months but it seems like just yesterday that I started posting at EN and found such a great group of support there and here in GQ-II.

It's truly remarkable how many people have just selflessly given their time to me here, expecting nothing in return. Just offering help, support, opinions, from the kindness of their hearts. The world truly is a better place because of people like yourselves.

Sorry to have you tear up, it certainly wasn't my intention to evoke sadness with my post. At the moment it happened today, I really didn't even think that much of it, sitting at that traffic light next to her. But looking back, it does make me sad. I know we haven't had a long history together but it's still just very strange being separated from her. Even 8 months later, I still sometimes feel that distant numbness that I felt around D-Day. Sort of like disbelief in what's happened, I guess.

I remain incredibly thankful for the amazing group at this forum, those that have posted to me or even just follow these posts mean the world to me. I do consider you all a wonderful group of friends. And I'll be right here in this thread as much as possible.

HofFenceSitter:

I am sorry to hear that you are heading in this direction as well. While I know my divorce won't be final until September or October, days like today do sadly show me that my wife doesn't have any intention of turning around.

I still do have regrets from the beginning after D-Day. I didn't do things properly, I let my emotions take over and that's never a good idea in these situations. But yes, since that initial rough period, I really have been doing all I can to save the marriage. It's just unfortunate that my wife's desire to leave, to be with the OM, was stronger than any desire to come home to me.

I do sometimes question if I'm the one that's been in a fog of my own though. My wife has all along told me since her affair started that our marriage was over, and she hasn't changed her tune on that in 8 months. I wonder if I just have been in denial by doing these plans, and if her new relationship isn't fog-based, but genuine. I have to consider that yes, maybe she truly is better off or happier with OM than with me. I'm biased, I like myself, and I think I am a good husband and provider, but that doesn't make me the ideal man for every woman out there. Perhaps that's just the case here. No fog. Just her making a better choice for herself.

So, I think I'm more the former, just separating from someone that doesn't want to be with me anymore. She's told me time and time again and I just needed to listen. She's fine with leaving me, she doesn't want me in her life. She finally had to be cruel and tell me she doesn't like me at all anymore. And what makes me sad is that I believe her, too. I don't think she cares about me or what happens to me at all.

HoFS, I wish you peace as well. I am sure you will do well, just listen to your advisors here, and remember that being calm in these situations is always the best for you and for everyone else involved, too. I regret each and every emotional blow-up I had after D-Day. I'm glad I was finally able to stay under control.

2long:

Ah, good ol 2long. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Indeed, 2day was a 2rning point in things. Interesting how W and I were able to be civil with one another after her big blow-up a few weeks ago when I sent those letters out. As we all suspected, she did calm down over time.

It's true, she has said to me from the start that she feels she could never have a long term relationship with OM, because of how it started. However I think part of that is fog talk, 2. She's not going 2 look at me and tell me she sees a future forever with the man she cheated on me with. We really have no way of knowing how she feels about OM. We know he's great for now, but will that change in the next few years? Who knows.

I think a lot will depend on if SHE can change. If she's the same W that left me, I don't put a lot of faith in their relationship going the distance. However, if she learns from this experience, and takes our relationship in2 consideration, she may apply that towards her new R and it may go far. I don't know. And I may never know what comes of it. Strange.

The one thing that struck me later 2day is that a couple boxes of her things are still here. Nothing really dire except her rocking chair is here, something she had growing up, sure I'm sure she will want that back. I have it put away now, and I dunno if she forgot it was here or not, but she didn't ask about it at all 2ay. I assume at some point she'll want to come get it. I can't help but wonder if she knows it's here and is just waiting or what. She knows she still has a few boxes of things here as well. I was surprised she didn't ask me about any of those things today. So here they sit.

I like what you're saying about her reactions to my behaviors. I think over time it will all make sense. I really hope she can look back on this some day and understand why I did and said the things I did. And maybe even appreciate what I was trying 2 do for her and for us.

I hope she saves the emails I've sent, the Plan B letter the other things I wrote her. I hope she saves all the cards I gave her over the years. I hope she saves our wedding photos that I burned onto a CD for her. I still wonder about her wedding band and engagement ring. Why did she want to keep it? Do wives who divorce normally give that back? I just hope she doesn't pawn it off. I have no problem with her keeping it so long as it's perhaps a reminder of how much I loved her.

I know I have grown and helped myself a lot since I've been here. I need to remember that I have come far. The bummer is I have nothing but a broken marriage to show for it, but I hope that someday these efforts and lessons will be rewarded. I hope for that for myself. And I do hope that W somehow gets something out of this, too. I hope she looks back one day and regrets that she didn't try, and understands why I wanted to save this marriage.

Thanks for caring, it means a lot to know that you all are still interested despite the fact things seem so grim lately. I promise 2 keep things as interesting as I can here.

ALS

you are a better man now than you were eight months ago. and that's an important measure of your success.

MTD:

No problem, I have trouble keeping up with myself sometimes. Happy belated Birthday to you as well! And congrats on the anniversary.

Thank you, you're very kind, both you and your wife. I think something that we need to consider when we look at my efforts is this: My W saw very little of them. Here, at the board, you can all see how much I care. How hard I tried. I wore my heart on my sleeve here and didn't hold back. With W, it was a much more careful process. And over the past 8 months, she heard very little from me, and saw even less of me. So, your wife, having read all this stuff can see just how sincere and deep the love for my W is. I'm not sure my W could or will ever understand.

At times, I wonder what her reactions would be to reading my posts here. I'm almost sure she wouldn't be able to resist reading them if I clued her in. However, I think she'd probably see it more as calculating rather than caring. As if I treated it more like a game than a serious relationship. But that's not really true at all. I simply loved my wife, and I wanted to know the best way I could go about showing her that love and devotion. So I turned to my jury here for suggestions, opinions, and the like.

Thanks for the vote of confidence in my woman finding abilities. It's scary to me since my first long term relationship was with W. Other than her, I've never had one. So the thought of finding someone to replace that is quite daunting. And I've never been one to play the dating scene, play the field, whatever so I'm not even sure where I'm going to begin. I know that there's a void in my life right now, and I'd sure like to fill that void again, but I have no idea how or where to start.

But it's not the last thing on my mind. Sure, there's still some crazy part of me hoping for some miracle, that my W will "see the light" and take a step towards me over these next few months. Sadly, I have yet to see any indication of that, and definitely not today. In fact, I don't know if she's even aware I'd still be willing.

Oh, and as for that link, sorry it went bad. Cerri, this was PAGES ago, I saw a post in divorcing/divorced where they were discussing the state of society today and how it's becoming so tolerable of infideltiy and divorce. I guess the thread went bad though, it was good when it started. Oh well. Out of my hands. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

And Cerri -- I thought you were paying attention to my thread and you missed that?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

ALS

Whippit -

Hey, I'm posting a lot of replies now so don't miss the one on the last page. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for that. I guess I want to believe I am a better man than I was 8 months ago. I do. But the problem is, I have no way to prove that to myself. I mean, I think I'm a better man. I think I'm smarter and know more about relationships and about myself. Many of you here say you have seen progression from my early posts to a greater deal of peace and understanding.

But without an arena to test that in, how will I know? I guess I will learn this for myself in time. If not with my wife, as it looks to be, then I hope with a new relationship some day. I know one thing, even if some of this stuff becomes fuzzy, I'll be reading my new library of like 20 relationship books over and over again. I think that's one thing I'd need in my W or in a new partner: Someone willing to read those books with me, and talk about them, and learn together. I think if 2 people read and understand Harleys concepts as well as some of the other authors I've grown to like on the subject, it seems liek a sure-fire recipe for success.

But have I become a better man? I hope to be able to test that theory someday. I'd like to know for sure. I sure hope so.

ALS

als ... the principles learned here at mb are not exclusive to matters of the heart. yes, the emotional needs part is typically reserved for marital/roantic relationships. but the concepts aren't eally unique to those things. you are proving yourself every day in your relationships with others ... and that includes with us here. trust me, other people notice strong, principled, confident people. they also notice when others seem to have their [censored] together. and i think we would all agree that describes you.

also ... i wanted to say that finding a woman who will appreciate the man you are and one you're becoming is a two way street. sometimes you don't even have to look. she'll find you (see the last three sentences in the paragraph above). mark my words, bro.

ALS:

"but that doesn't make me the ideal man for every woman out there."

Read that a 2ple more times. I think when you do, maybe you'll get the belly laugh I got out of that!!!

I know I speak for many on here when I say that I'm GLAD that you're not the ideal man for every woman out there!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

Hmmm, I still fail to see the humor that you see. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Though I guess you mean that would be disaster if I were irresistable to every female on the planet, huh? Makes sense.

But there was a point I was trying to make amidst my silliness, too. Sometimes I think people might get married for the wrong reasons. Or get married not realizing the seriousness of the commitment. Not knowing what the vows really mean. And I'm suggesting that perhaps my W realized that she didn't like being married, and especially not to me, and that there's a better match for her out there. Unfortunately, she found him after she was married to me, but that doesn't mean he's not a better match for her than I was. I think a lot of times we make a mistake here assuming that every time that a woman leaves her husband for another man, or vice versa, that person is inferior. Maybe he's inferior to be morally, but as for what makes my wife happy, he may be superior.

Whippit, thanks buddy, I appreciate it. It'd be great if, once all is said and done, a great girl just finds me. I just find that the male species normally, even in this new age, has to work more than the females do when it comes to meeting potential partners. But hey, I hope I can be an exception to that rule, sure.

ALS

ALS:

Okay, it struck me funny, is all.

You're trying 2 make sense out of your W's behavior. You're trying 2 tell yourself that she didn't want 2 be married, and that she's happier now. Well, my friend, if that's true, you're definitely better off without her. But I don't think it's true. In the end it doesn't matter. What matters is you, and what you've learned.

Leave her learning up 2 her.

-2long

Yeah, you're right 2long, even after all this time has passed, I guess I am still searching for answers. I just feel like I don't know the real truth behind why this happened. Sure, we've all speculated here, and I've heard her reasons for it after D-Day and in the rare talks we've had since then, but I still feel like something's missing.

I like to hope that one day I will be thankful for all of this happening because it will have not only made me a better person but helped me in my next relationship. I look forward to the day where I can post here and proclaim that. This is the tough part to be at right now.

Yesterday a co-worker who has been concerned about my situation asked me what was going on. I said that I am in the divorce process, and their response was "Oh, so are you dating anyone yet?" Like it's all so simple, just get a divorce and start dating someone new. They obviously have no idea how it feels or what it's like to go through this.

Yep, I've learned a lot of things. And I really hope I can use that somewhere than just here in this forum sometime soon. I do wonder what W has learned, if anything. Does she regret hurting me still? Or does she smile when she goes to sleep at night, thankful that she is finally getting me out of her life? Does she know I still hurt? So many questions that may never go answered, so much that she may never know about me. Maybe someday, I'll have the answers.

ALS

ALS,

I remember when I first read your post about your situation and replied to you how right on the money it was with mine. The paths have gotten farther apart over time, but I still looked for your posts.

I am not sure what is worse, the fact that you seem to have gotten off the roller coaster, even if unwilling or for me to still be on the ride.

My torture is that my W and I live together, talk on the phone, joke, laugh, go hiking, movies, park, etc. together, but no loving relationship.
I even sleep in the same bed, because I was getting tired of sleeping on the couch.
My W works with OM and is friends with OM, so contact remains. So as she tries to figure stuff out, I have a constant feeling of being runner up, second place.

So I ask myself, do I want your situation, or do I want to continue down the path I am on, feeling unhappy most of the time, but keeping a smile on to show her things could be nice if she put in some effort to the M. I don't know.

All I have to say to you is, no matter how bad you feel, when you look yourself in the mirror, you can know you did all that you could do. Pushing her into what you wanted if she didn't want it, wasn't what you really wanted anyway. Don't be surprised that when you are in a new loving relationship, you get something from her, because her past will eventually catch up with her emotions.

take it easy...
K

Hey, thanks for posting again, I do remember your reply and the similarities we had. Thanks for sticking with me to see how things turn out.

I am sorry that I don't have a better story to tell with a happier ending for you all. Sorry for myself as well, of course, and sorry for W as well. I beleive that today, maybe even for years, she'll think that this was without question, the right thing for her to do. I only hope that someday, she might see it otherwise. That she might wonder what he life could have been like if she'd have just remembered why we got married and realized our potential.

As for the rollercoaster, I really haven't yet gotten off, I just think we're on different rides. Maybe yours has loops and mine has corkscrews. I dunno. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But I still do have some emotional highs and lows these days, sometimes without rhyme or reason. I find that at times I can miss my wife and love her, and remember something funny she said or wonderful she did. And then other times I feel almost thankful that she left, when I remember all the depression and a lot of the ways she didn't meet my needs. It varies from day to day.

I feel for you in that you do have your W with you but that you are not receiving any love from her. I am sure that many have already advised you that you can't go on like that forever, and at some point it will be Plan B time. Hopefully you will know when that is if your wife doesn't come to her senses sooner.

I will tell you this -- I was unhappy all of the time when my W was here and her affair continued. I couldn't stand it. Once we separated, I still felt unhappy a lot, and it's lessened but I still feel it, yet there were also times where I could forget the situation, put that aside, and just have some fun, doing things I want to do on my own, with friends, family, etc.

You are correct in the fact that when I look myself in the mirror, I see a winner. I see someone who loves his wife and just did what he thought was right. At first, maybe I did this because I was selfish and scared and didn't want to be alone. But now I know I did this because I not only wanted my wife back in my life, but I wanted to make her life better, too. I wanted to show her the love I hava always had for her. Help us put right what went wrong and give us the marriage we have always been meant to have.

I am saddened that she didn't consider this. It may have seemed like an insurmountable obstacle for her, or at least, not worth losing her OM over trying. That does make me sad. Had she even given counseling a try, I'd at least feel better that she could perhaps leave in peace as well. I can't help but think that this may hang over her head forever. I don't see why it wouldn't. If I were in her shoes, I don't think I'd ever forgive myself for it. Unless I went home and tried.

Perhaps my story is not yet over. Like you say, time will tell. I always have a lot on my mind, so I'll always be here. And when my thread gets boring, I'm going to try and help some others as so many of you have helped me.

And yes, I won't be surprised if I hear from W again someday. I think I'd kind of like that. I would like to know what comes of her. Plus, I think if I do hear from her, that would mean it's over with OM. And that's all I really want. Not for her to be unhappy. Just for her to realize that an affair with OM wasn't the way to it.

ALS