</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ALostSoul:
<strong>Thanks, STTSI! Always nice to hear from ya. Hope things are going better for you, I'll look in on your thread soon.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No need to check in, I have been swamped with work and my thread has stalled. Star and Space have given me some great info, which I bookmarked and am reading in my spare time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ALostSoul:
<strong>I'm gonna keep having fun and doing my best to smile. As for W noticing, I doubt that very much, as she probably will see me maybe one or two more times in person and that will be the last I see of her, maybe forever. At least that's the way I currently see things happening. That can change. Though lately we have no excuse to see each other,</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah but you do have a reason to see her, she still has items at the house. That can be another good time to show her how you have changed. Each interaction no matter how small does have an effect on the WS. The question has always been when will she pull her head out of her a$$, and where will you be at that time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ALostSoul:
<strong>One other thing, and I don't want to make this sound sad, because I don't mean it that way, but a few minutes ago I just really had the urge, the wish, to just have a girl I could hug and tell her that I loved her. I guess I just have a lot of repressed love waiting to get out. I look forward to having that in my life again someday.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> {{{{{{{ALS}}}}}}}

Big manly hugs for ya big fella! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I know what you mean about wanting a girl around to hug and to hold. I missed that too. That is why I got a cat, but that has already been discussed here as I recall.

Gotta run...

Howdy, folks, just thought I'd give myself a bump and check in with you all. Even though I don't have much to report, I still like to post some thoughts here in my thread from time to time.

I suppose Plan B has basically been going on for 2 and a half months now. If you count the day I sent the letter as the start date. Of course, since then I have had contact with W but only regarding the divorce-related stuff. I have not seen her in person in that time except for a few minutes to sign the car over to her.

That was three weeks ago. No contact at all since then. Strangely, she still owes me that money for the divorce filing costs and she hasn't sent it. I know she's getting paid at the end of this week, so I'm hoping to get a check from her sometime next week. If not, that will be two paychecks that she has received since telling me she'd pay me back (at the time, she said "probably" after her next paycheck).

Plan B overall has been good for me. I definitely do better when I don't see her or talk to her. It keeps my mind clearer, and helps me to forget all the hurt she caused. I am stronger and happier when I don't need to have contact with her. Just like a WS contacting an OP after recovery, when I see her, it reminds me of the hurt of the A again and I take steps backward.

On the downside though, I still have that urge to talk to her, ask her about her day, and I am curious about what she's up to. I wonder if she ever feels the same about me. During Plan A, we didn't have a lot of contact, but when we did, we did have the chance to sit down together as friends, and talk, and it was nice. I do miss that. But I realize this was what I had to do. The ball has been in her court for months now, but she doesn't ever pick it up and play. But so be it, that is her choice.

That leads me to one of the things STTSI said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ah but you do have a reason to see her, she still has items at the house. That can be another good time to show her how you have changed. Each interaction no matter how small does have an effect on the WS. The question has always been when will she pull her head out of her a$$, and where will you be at that time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, that is a confusing one...She must realize that she still has these items at the house. I'm not sure if she thinks I am trying to keep them from her or what. The day I sent the Plan B letter, her immediate response was that she wanted to come get ALL of her things from the house. So I left the house open for her, gave her all the time she needed there, alone, to take things. And what did she do? She left a bunch of stuff behind.

All this stuff is packed and could be fit into one trip, one carload. I keep waiting for the day she asks to come and get it. I know there are a few things she'll want. One is a rocking chair she loved so much she had her parents bring it all the way down for her. Yet here it sits.

I realized yesterday how lucky I am to have such a great group of friends and family to support me. I am thankful for that. I am thankful for the job I have and the home that I live in. And I'm thankful that I found this place and did all that I could to save the marriage. I will never look back in regret. I wish I'd found this place on D-Day or even sooner, but regardless, I don't feel like I could have done much more than I have already.

And a final note: I am past the point of taking W back without a lot of conditions. I guess there were always conditions, but now more than ever, I feel like I would be strong enough to say "no" or walk away from a W that came back having learned nothing, unwilling to change, unwilling to agree to conditions. Cerri always says that before recovery starts, a recovery plan must be set, and that is very important. I don't have a lot of faith that I'll ever get the chance to implement one, but I know now that it would take a lot for my W to be welcomed back into my life. More than ever.

Feeling strong,

ALS

<small>[ July 15, 2003, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: ALostSoul ]</small>

ALS:

Some strange thoughts that came 2 my mind. Don't put 2 much stock in them, in fact none at all. Just observations on "the process" from a different perspective.

*If you weren't hurt by your stbxw's behavior, or even seeing or talking 2 her, there'd be no reason NOT 2 talk 2 her if you felt like it, because you're DVing anyway. There'd be no "manipulation" implied. At least not from your end. Depending on her reaction, she might interpret any such contact as manipulative, as you trying 2 interfere with her R.

*I think you need 2 drop the need for conditions of any kind, particularly since you are DVing because she couldn't meet them and so you won't have any "right" 2 have expectations of her. I don't mean 2 sound harsh. The opposite, in fact. If she perceives you as having no expectations of her whatsoever, don't you think she'd be more inclined 2 be your friend, even maybe able 2 have another relationship with you down the line (assuming you want one), than if you handed her a list of conditions she needs 2 meet in order 2 have a R with you? (At this point, again since you are DVing, I think this would be perhaps 2 high a barrier for her 2 surmount).

A lot of what I've said stems from my own recent experiences with radical forgiveness and unconditional love. Not necessarily an MB viewpoint, but not as different as it might seem.

Again, this wasn't meant 2 be taken as advice for action. Just some thoughts I had (perhaps induced by that 3rd cup of STRONG coffee I just injested! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

-ol' 2long

Some rather interesting ideas, there, 2long.

I think what you are basically saying is that, now that I'm getting divorced and the process is underway, there's really no need for Plan B anymore. I understand how that's probably true, it's pretty apparent that with my W, the threat of NC or having me out of her life didn't make a difference or change her mind about anything. If anything, my desire for NC may have even accelerated the divorce.

W made it clear to me, at least for a while, that in her perfect world, she could have me as a friend while she continued to date/sleep with/whatever OM. She wanted me as a friend. Frankly, and I'm not sure if this is the right way to feel, but I can't be her friend, DEFINITELY not while she continues her relationship with OM. They have had a steady relationship since this started and it is only solidifying in time.

W and I actually were on friendly, speaking terms until I sent the PB letter to OM and her family. At that point, she declared she no longer liked me at all and wanted me out of her life. So, at that point, the chance for even friendly conversation went out the window.

So I guess first off, W doesn't WANT to talk to me. Frankly, I don't really want to be a friend to her while she continues her affair (or her "new relationship" as she of course sees it, it was never an affair). Should her affair end, AND she wanted to talk to me, yes, I would leave Plan B for this. Even if it's not about reconcilation, I would think this would be something worth trying. But right now, at least the way I see it, she has no desire at all to talk to me, and, as much as I'd love to talk to her, I know it would hurt me more than help me as her affair is right back in my face then.

So getting to your second point, the conditions. Well, again, we have never even got CLOSE to any conditions aside from right after D-Day. At that point, I basically told her that she would have to quit her job to stay with me. She worked with OM all day closely and I could have it no other way. Obviously she didn't like that condition. That condition would still stand today. No way could she continue to work aside him if she wanted to come home. Other than that, everything else would be up to discussion. Aside from NC with OM (no longer working with him being key), as long as W agreed to address and work on the issues that led up to the A, that would be good enough for me to start.

I still feel the ability to forgive her. I can understand why she did what she did, it was selfish, yes, but it's what she needed to do for HER. And I do want to be able to offer full forgiveness. If she had tried to work on the M, or still came to me and wanted to try, I could forgive that. But I am not sure I will ever be able to fully forgive her if this never happens. I there will never be any repenting or any attempt of reconciliation from her, I'm not sure I will be able to forgive. I know to forgive her unconditionally is the goal here, and I want to do that, I just think that right now it's tough, just because she never tried.

As for a relationship down the line, or post-Dv, I dunno...Life's funny and I can't say for sure what will come next. I put a very low probability on her ever coming home or wanting me back, soon or even later. She's a great girl and will always hold a special place in my heart, I know that we had such potential between us if we'd have put in the effort, and I'm sad that she may never get the chance to experience that with me, because I know it could have been wonderful.

So we'll see what the future brings. But for now, I think I'm doing pretty okay.

ALS

<small>[ July 15, 2003, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: ALostSoul ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Some rather interesting ideas, there, TMCM.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> what you talkin' 'bout willis?

Ooops, post edited. 2long I mean. I was reading another of your posts and I got my signals crossed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

ALS

ALS:

You're still talking about this as if the goal is 2 get your W back. You're DVing, so that's not the game plan at the moment. You have no need 2 offer conditions for her coming home. You do need 2 change gears here and prepare for life without her.

You say you want 2 be able 2 forgive her, and yet you insist that she'd have 2 be willing 2 meet your conditions 2 come home for you 2 do that. You're "resisting" and the A is "persisting."

If you truly want her 2 be happy, 2 learn from her experiences that you've just said she may have needed 2 go through, then you need 2 let go of the blaming, of the labeling of what she's doing as "wrong" or "bad." It doesn't look wrong 2 her right now. And if you never get back 2gether (which isn't your plan at the moment, because you are DVing), wouldn't you like for her 2 have the chance 2 figure out if this current R she's in might be one of the 3% or so that lasts?

Only by letting go of all this mental mas2rbation can you truly find peace.

Sorry 2 sound harsh, again. But I realized quite recently that it was my own similar thinking that kept myself and my W banging heads 2gether for 18 months! When I stopped doing that, everything changed in miraculous ways, and they're still evolving. Much better than the stalemate I created without being aware I was doing it.

regards,
-2long

2long,

First off, I think I may have even said this before but NEVER be afraid to sound harsh or tell it as you see it or be blunt with me. That goes for everyone who posts to me, actually. I'd rather hear it straight. And sometimes I need the 2x4 and other times it may just be a misunderstanding regarding how I said something.

This may sound callous as well...I DO want her to be happy but I don't want her to be happy with OM. I want that R to fail no matter what. Even if it means she never comes back. I still want that to fail. I want her to move back with her parents and be happy, or be single for a while and start a new R and be happy...I don't want her to be happy with the man she cheated on me with. I know that's a double standard as far as my feelings towards her happiness go. But I guess in a weird twisted way, if she has a lifetime or even long-tern happiness with this guy, then it just justifies to her that cheating on me was right, the right decision, and that she never did anything wrong. She'll be happy and she'll never learn that her happiness caused such grief to others. She'll have learned nothing other than that running away and lying and cheating WORKS.

I have this sort of sickness in where I play out scenarios in my head. I live things out in many ways before they even happen. For example, I've already played out how the divorce signing day will go if it goes through. Or how I think it will go. Different variations on that. I've also run a scenario through my head where sometime between now and then, she comes to me wanting to talk, or with regret, or wanting to work on things. I don't place any stock in that happening, but I play it through anyway. And what I realized where once in that scenario I hugged her and welcomed her back immediately, now when it plays, it results in a lot of confusion and questioning on my end. It's not unconditional anymore. So I guess all I was saying there, was IF that were ever to happen, I know now that there would be conditions, or else I wouldn't think it was worth the risk. I would be too afraid to be hurt again by her.

Anyway, as psychotic as that all may sound, believe, these aren't the thoughts that rule my day. Just passing ideas that come to me from time to time. I spend very little of my day obsessing over the marriage like I used to. I know you don't get the picture here, as when I am here I am focused on these things, but I continue to detach more and more and prepare for life without her, and am doing better at that all the time.

ALS

ALS:

"This may sound callous as well...I DO want her to be happy but I don't want her to be happy with OM. I want that R to fail no matter what."

This is "okay", in that you're human, and you're hurting. But consider this, that by letting go of this "desire" of yours, letting her have everything she thinks she wants and YOU being OKAY with that decision, completely, it's more likely 2 fail sooner than later. You will have removed the resistance that's enabling the persistence! ;o) And believe me, I DO believe that our thoughts are expressed outwardly in ways that we don't understand but others can read. Even if we're not in regular contact (and maybe PARTICULARLY when the contact is infrequent).

"But I guess in a weird twisted way, if she has a lifetime or even long-tern happiness with this guy, then it just justifies to her that cheating on me was right, the right decision, and that she never did anything wrong."

She's already doing this. The difference is that YOU have a CHOICE 2 let go of these thoughts, because YOU are conscious of them. She is not.

"She'll be happy and she'll never learn that her happiness caused such grief to others. She'll have learned nothing other than that running away and lying and cheating WORKS."

It does work, whatever "work" means. If she lives happily ever after in this "knowledge" she won't really have learned the important lessons, though, will she? She might be happy, but she won't be the kind of partner that you (or anybody else, for that matter) would want 2 have a truly intimate relationship with, would she? I'm betting that she'll "learn the important lessons" someday, if she's half as intelligent as you have indicated over the months. It might happen soon. It might happen years down the line.

"I have this sort of sickness in where I play out scenarios in my head. I live things out in many ways before they even happen."

And so have I!!! And it's precisely this "sickness" that will keep YOU from growing 2 the point you're ready for another committed relationship. With someone else or with your stbxw.

"And what I realized where once in that scenario I hugged her and welcomed her back immediately, now when it plays, it results in a lot of confusion and questioning on my end. It's not unconditional anymore."

I'm surprised at how often unconditional love gets misconstrued on this 4um. It's entirely possible 2 love her unconditionally for the rest of your life but never be romantically in love with her again. Just accept her as she is, even if that's someone else's S. That's all there is 2 it.

"So I guess all I was saying there, was IF that were ever to happen, I know now that there would be conditions, or else I wouldn't think it was worth the risk. I would be too afraid to be hurt again by her."

Long before you ever got in2 a "risky" R with her again, I believe you'd have a much better understanding of each other. You can't do that now, because you're not communicating and you are DVing. You're *planning* for a fu2re apart. You've gone beyond plan B, though others have gone there and recovered still. Plan B was 2 protect your remaining romantic love for her and 2 protect you from the hurt you feel by her actions. Now you're in plan D, and it's entirely up 2 you whether you want 2 continue 2 harbor this self-destructive resentment or move on 2 healthier relationships.

"Anyway, as psychotic as that all may sound, believe, these aren't the thoughts that rule my day. Just passing ideas that come to me from time to time. I spend very little of my day obsessing over the marriage like I used to. I know you don't get the picture here, as when I am here I am focused on these things, but I continue to detach more and more and prepare for life without her, and am doing better at that all the time."

I understand this perfectly, because I've seen it in my own behavior and thinking over the past 18 months. I still run these kinds of scenarios over in my head from time 2 time, but less frequently with time. I suggest you "watch the thinker" here, as Tolle suggests in "The Power of Now". Observe your feelings when you go through these scenarios. Observe how your moods change, how your interactions change. ...how your thinking can so easily be poisoned by playing these "plans" over in your head. Even2ally, they'll lose any remaining power they have over you.

best regards,
-2long

2long, as always, you make a lot of sense.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is "okay", in that you're human, and you're hurting. But consider this, that by letting go of this "desire" of yours, letting her have everything she thinks she wants and YOU being OKAY with that decision, completely, it's more likely 2 fail sooner than later. You will have removed the resistance that's enabling the persistence! ;o) And believe me, I DO believe that our thoughts are expressed outwardly in ways that we don't understand but others can read. Even if we're not in regular contact (and maybe PARTICULARLY when the contact is infrequent).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, in a way I do feel I am doing this. At least, as far as she's concerned. I let go of the rope and took the gloves off a couple months ago when I filed. Since then I have put up no resistance. So, I think it's safe to say that right now, she is getting everything that she wants, all that she asked for. No contact from me, she got the old car signed over to her, and she is getting her divorce.

So at least now I can't be blamed for any problems, and she can't see me as a wall in her life anymore.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She's already doing this. The difference is that YOU have a CHOICE 2 let go of these thoughts, because YOU are conscious of them. She is not.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, and I am trying to let go of the thoughts about her infidelity. I'm getting better at it but sometimes you just can't control it, too. But time has been making it easier to cope with.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It does work, whatever "work" means. If she lives happily ever after in this "knowledge" she won't really have learned the important lessons, though, will she? She might be happy, but she won't be the kind of partner that you (or anybody else, for that matter) would want 2 have a truly intimate relationship with, would she? I'm betting that she'll "learn the important lessons" someday, if she's half as intelligent as you have indicated over the months. It might happen soon. It might happen years down the line. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, of that I'm still not sure. Maybe one day her relationship with OM will fizzle or hit some rough patches and she'll look back and wonder if she made the right decision in leaving. However, if her relationship with OM remains good, at least, better than her relationship with me, then I don't see how she will ever think that leaving me wasn't the right thing to do. Why would she? She'd look back and be happy with that decision. The big stumbling block is that her and OM just have a lot more in common as far as interests go. I don't want to feel this way, but it still hurts for me to think that he makes her happier than I could. Maybe that is just my own self esteem issue though.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And so have I!!! And it's precisely this "sickness" that will keep YOU from growing 2 the point you're ready for another committed relationship. With someone else or with your stbxw.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, this I realize. I've done it all my life though. I always play out scenarios in my head, and often, things look different when they actually come to pass. But sometimes it helps me mentally prepare for being in a situation, too. In this case though, I do realize that wondering about W isn't going to help me at all really. So I try to refrain from it. I do know it's important that I let go of any resentment or fear before I get back into a relationship with anyone.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm surprised at how often unconditional love gets misconstrued on this 4um. It's entirely possible 2 love her unconditionally for the rest of your life but never be romantically in love with her again. Just accept her as she is, even if that's someone else's S. That's all there is 2 it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's what worries me. I wonder if I even love her unconditionally because, even though I want to be able to look at her and wish her the best, I can't do that. I don't want the best for her with OM. Maybe if she left him and went off to explore life on her own, I could live with that. But as long as she is with the man she betrayed me with, I don't feel like I have any wel wishes for her. So maybe my love for her isn't as strong as it should be. I guess I want her to be unhappy with him so she might regret leaving. Even if she didn't come back.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Long before you ever got in2 a "risky" R with her again, I believe you'd have a much better understanding of each other. You can't do that now, because you're not communicating and you are DVing. You're *planning* for a fu2re apart. You've gone beyond plan B, though others have gone there and recovered still. Plan B was 2 protect your remaining romantic love for her and 2 protect you from the hurt you feel by her actions. Now you're in plan D, and it's entirely up 2 you whether you want 2 continue 2 harbor this self-destructive resentment or move on 2 healthier relationships.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, all good points here. I am letting go of my resentment more and more every day. There are still moments of it, where I get upset or angry because I am reminded of something, but they pass quickly. And they are lessening all the time. I realize harboring these thoughts won't solve anything, which is why I am hoping to prevent them from taking over. Thinking back to the past doesn't change it and it won't fix anything.

Thanks for the post. The key I think now during this Plan B/Plan D I am in, is to just let go of the past, let go of the marriage, of her, and move on as if she will never be in my life again. Thinking of all that went wrong and remembering D-Day aren't going to solve anything. I still have those memories and feelings, and I can't keep them out completely, but I do think I am doing better with time. But I still have a ways to go.

ALS

ALS:

"I guess I want her to be unhappy with him so she might regret leaving. Even if she didn't come back. "

I wonder if it might be more accurate 2 say that you want her 2 learn the lessons she needs 2 learn while in this relationship. But I don't want 2 put words in2 your mouth, or thoughts in2 your head.

I think they say pretty much the same thing, but the latter says you do wish her well, whereas the former sounds spiteful. 2 me, at least.

You're one of my favorites, ALS.
-2long

Hi ALS, Remember me?

I had posted on some of your earlier posts this spring, but haven't been on the site for a couple months as I was off for maternity leave.

I now have a beautiful 2 month old baby daughter!

As for my situation with my H, well I can say that reading your posts is like reading my own mind.

My H filed for divorce soon after the baby was born and so I have an attorney as well and am trying to process through this.

I never did do a plan b as I was hoping the baby would maybe help change his mind....well, I was way wrong on that...

I have the same thoughts about wanting him to be happy, but not with OW....anyone but her! I have this real fear that eventually when we are divorced he will still be seeing OW (they still live 6 hours apart from each other) and my little girl will be exposed to her, but I'll deal with that when I have to.

I also feel like I need to be moving on, letting go and just getting on with my life in this plan D.....but it's easier I guess to say that than to actually do it. I guess I feel like I want to just wipe him out of my mind right now. But it's like my heart won't let go and still remembers the good times that we had. I do still love him, but the old him that I knew before, not this person who has hurt me so terribly. I think I am also still holding out some hope although I don't know why. I guess I tend to be a positive person and so try to not see the negative, but I don't think that's doing much good for me in terms of letting go of my love for him.

Don't know if you have some of these same feelings too, but I sure felt like I was reading my own mind when I was reading your recent posts on this thread.

I've also played out the scenario of what conditions would have to be met if he came back, and imagined how we could be a family with this new baby, but I really should be beyond that point of placing conditions on him as 2long said to you.

I need to accept that he is going to do what he wants, as he has been doing for awhile now. I also need to think that if he by some chance was to come back....could I really forgive and forget after all this time.

It's like I have only imagined that first step, of him coming to me and saying that the OW is gone and he wants to be with me....but haven't considered what would happen next. How I would trust, forgive, forget, etc. I know I'd use this site and a counselor for help, but at what point have they just done too much....

It's been one year July 1 that I found out about the affair, which started 4/13/02. That's a long time when I think about it....a very long time for him to be involved with someone else and being so hurtful to me.

It's like I need to try and think about the hurtful things, cheating, lying, etc. that he's done to make me realize I don't want to be with him. Instead I tend to remember how it was and think aobut how it could be, but in plan D, I don't think thats the right thing to do.

I have followed you since you started on MB although haven't posted a lot....I guess it's made me feel better to read your posts with some of the same thoughts/feelings that I have had. Although I don't have any good words of wisdom to help you through this part as I'm in the same spot, it is somehow comforting for me to know I'm not alone with the thoughts and feelings I have.
All I can say is that people always say that it is time that will make things better...don't know how much time, but eventually the hurt will fade further and further away as our new lives go on.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wonder if it might be more accurate 2 say that you want her 2 learn the lessons she needs 2 learn while in this relationship. But I don't want 2 put words in2 your mouth, or thoughts in2 your head.

I think they say pretty much the same thing, but the latter says you do wish her well, whereas the former sounds spiteful. 2 me, at least. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well yes, that is basically saying the same thing in a nicer way. It never was about me not wanting her to be happy. But if she IS happy, then she hasn't learned a lesson, she's only learned that running away works, that it's okay to hurt the ones that love you the most, and that she didn't make any mistakes. That concerns me more than anything else.

Unless she's done a full 180 and changed her ways in this new R, which I have no idea about at all, it's just a ticking time bomb waiting to implode again. Probably not for a couple of years, but it will happen. There is always the chance, though, that this experience woke her up to what she was doing wrong and she's going to make this one work. After all, if I can wake up and learn, so can she. She just might be happier where she is now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're one of my favorites, ALS.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks 2long, I'm most flattered!

ALS

HMB,

It's great to hear from you again! Of course I remember you, I remember everyone that's ever posted to me.

Congrats on your new daughter! What a wonderful gift for you, I'm sure she will be a great help with your recovery.

I am sorry to hear that you are going through a similar process as me. I know first-hand that it's still not easy to let go of the ones that we still love. We know it's the right thing to do, both for us and for them, so we can heal, but that doesn't make it any simpler. As much as we may try to forget them, sometimes we just can't. After all, we still love them.

With his OW living so far away, hopefully that won't mean that D will have to be exposed to her. The courts probably can't stop it, but if you and H are on speaking terms perhaps you can at least make it known you'd prefer she not be exposed to her, at least at first.

I am with you very much on all your other thoughts. I can relate because I have done all of the same things. I have played out the scenario of her coming home but never wondered what I would do next, or how I would feel. I have wondered if I would get what I wanted all along and then be afraid or even worse, miserable because of how hard it will be to look her in the eye and get over.

With all the MB tools here though, I know I could do it, if I could look my W in the eye and trust her. If it's any consolation, I think that if she swallowed enough pride to come to me and say those things, that would be a GREAT step towards recovery. Of course, I am divorcing now so I have pretty much given up hope on that and let her go. I don't anticipate her being a part of my life at all anymore in a couple months.

As of today, it's been a full month of total NC, the longest ever. Not even a single email. She still owes me money for the divorce filing which I am waiting for, she promised that weeks ago when I saw her. She still has a few things at the house. Other than that, we have no reason for contact until September when the 90 days are up, at that point we sign the next round of papers. I'm not looking forward to it but will go ahead as planned.

I found out something interesting, I was told that at the time of the judge granting the divorce, in this state, he will ask us if either of us want to force the other to come to marriage counseling before divorcing. In other words, if I said yes, she'd have no choice but to go. Of course, we're so far gone now that my answer would be no, there's no reason for it as she is in a serious 9 month relationship with OM now. It would just cause further resentment. If I felt I needed counseling, I'd just go to IC.

HMB, I know time will make things better for us but I also think it will take more than some say. It's been a year for you and close to that for me, and I know I am BETTER than I was many months ago. I'm sure you are too. It will just take more of this slow healing for us to be totally over it. But it will happen. Until then, I don't think it's necessary we force ourselves to think badly of our spouses.

I still cherish the good memories I have with W, and I still love her very much, she was a wonderful influence in my life. I know she has the potential to be such a wonderful person and for that I will miss her dearly. I know we both could have been happy together if we learned how to communicate better. But she has made her choices and I won't try to influence that anymore. I'm sure you feel the same way about your H.

Keep in touch!

ALS

Wow, I just realized this morning for the first time since D-Day, I think I didn't actually associate a monthly D-Day anniversary when it happened this month. A few days ago would have been 9 months since then, but that didn't cross my mind. So I guess that's another small step in my own recovery. Not that I didn't think of the A that day, I'm sure I did, but at least I'm not looking at the milestones anymore.

So 9 months later, where am I? I feel like I've stalled a little bit lately. I still am unsure of some things. Some days I am very surprised to think that the affair has lasted this long, and other days I'm not at all. I'm still not sure if I want to believe that it won't last more than a couple years, but who's to even say that? I have no idea at all how W and OM get along or how they are doing right now and in the day to day.

I have been doing my best to move on with my life, and to every extent possible, I have been. I do not sit in a cocoon of misery or loneliness. There are brief moments, sure, but for the most part I am living a full, fun life, doing the things I want to do, enjoying more time with my family, friends, and my hobbies.

What I still struggle with at times is the past. It's not that I want to be tortured by the memories of these past 9 months, but my mind still does wander back to D-Day and the events that followed and I get angry or sad again. I wish I could make these memories go away. I hope they will in time. It's ironic, though, W told me the reason she could never come home was because of things that happened between us years ago, that she could never let go of. If she can't overcome her own anger about those things, it makes it easier to understand why she never wanted the marraige (though the fact she married me after many of the things she claims are still upsetting her DOES confuse me).

I guess the big difference is that I have come to realize that the two of us could overcome these problems and the ghosts of the past and work through them together. With OM in her life, she has no motivation for this, her needs are met elsewhere. As long as he's there, I don't see it happening. If I had a new girl in my life, maybe I'd feel the same way. I refuse to take such a step until I am officially divorced, though. I just wouldn't feel right about it. Morals and all.

I know that W and I could have been happy if she could have resisted the OM and come home. But the addiction was too strong. She is a person who needs someone in her life to get her through the tough times. Were he to leave her early on in the A, I think she would have come back. After this long, chances are she'd move on to the next guy rather than face her demons with me. I still want her to be happy, and if it's not with me I can accept that. But I still don't want her with OM. As nice of a guy as I had to hear he was, the bottom line is that he's scum for helping destroy a marriage, and for getting involved with a married woman.

Some days I wonder if I've come as far as I should have. I have learned a lot but I'm not sure it's enough yet. I want to learn more, but I also don't know where to go from here. I'm moving on with my life in every regard except romantically. But I still have trouble letting go of the past. I remain hopeful that time will bring me greater peace and understanding.

ALS

you've already achieved greater peace and understanding, my friend. trust me on that. and it will get better still if that's the path you choose. i often thought of my own path through this as a grand journey. i look forward and i see no clear landmarks that help me see where i'm going, but i know i'm on the right road. i look back and i see where i've been and the distance looks just as great as the one before me. but i know that i don't want to go back that way.

i know you know you're on the right road, too.

ALS-

As I've said before...you're right where you need to be.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks whippit, thanks kily.

I guess I just feel like I should be feeling BETTER. I shouldn't want W back anymore, I shouldn't love her anymore, I should want to walk down the road and not look back at all. Yet every once in a while I find myself glancing back over my shoulder and wondering what could have been.

I realize that this is a defeatist attitude, but it's hard to control. I know that you are both saying I am where I need to be, and I appreciate that. That being said, though, I think I felt like 9 months later, I'd be further along than this, too.

ALS

ALS-

You can't beat yourself up because you love.

Love isn't about logic. It takes a long time for the wounds to heal. It helps that you want them too, but it still catches you in the a$$ when your pants are down around your ankles.....

snap...woosh...

Yeah, I realize, I just kind of feel disappointed in myself because I think some of the reasons I have trouble letting go isn't all from love, but also from my own insecurities and esteem issues due to being rejected.

It's an amazing power that having someone in our life that loves us like that gives to us, and I think we sometimes take it for granted when we've got it. I know I did. Sometimes it takes losing that to realize how precious it is.

I realize it's possible to live a life without a partner, some people do just that or even prefer it. But what I've learned from this whole experience isn't so much that I NEED someone to spend my life with, but that I desire that greatly.

I think that's where a lot of the open wounds still come from, just remembering when W and I were happy, and wishing that it hadn't gotten squandered away. But the ironic thing is that it took losing her and this whole experience to truly open my eyes to how precious it is, too. If she didn't have the A or leave, I wouldn't have learned these lessons. Yet if she would have come back, it would be worlds better than before. That's why recovery has such a great chance of working for those couples that both try, I guess!

ALS