I am trying to understand something and I would like to ask respectfully if I may.

A wife has been betrayed, has undeniable evidence in front of her and a confrontation that her husband has been in a EMR for well over two years and is told by her husband that he loved the woman. She also knows several expensive gifts were given, trips were made, they were in your house.

My question is this.....does she really believe that he will just stop seeing this other woman and just overnight stop loving her and seeing her just because he says so? Can she tell herself that and how does she do that?

He never stopped calling or seeing me from day one after the blow-out yet she seems to be just fine now, believing that he will never see me again and all is well.

I am trying to understand all of us and that includes her. Can anyone answer this?

Why don't you do the respectful thing and stop seeing a married man? That would help a lot in my opinion.

Hope and Prayers to you and yours,

H

I don't know what the Wife actually believes but here are some thoughts....

Amazingly enough, there are people who have the willpower to control their actions. If they really want to stop something, they can stop something like seeing someone.

Feelings and actions can be completely different. In most cases the feelings don't change so readily, but they should be considered separately from actions. Most "cold-turkey" references refer to situations where the change in actions preceed the change in feelings. Basically, I'm saying that people who still care about OWs can choose successfully to stop seeing/contacting the OW. It's the principle of NC applied to recover the marriage.

A good number of people believe what they want to believe. Especially if someone they want to trust is lying through their teeth to them to believe that their is no contact. The alternative is to face further betrayal and pain of the A. It probably isn't the healthiest response, but people can be genuinely scared of taking the hard road. The evidence you mention seems to be just "past" evidence. I'm sure that the W would quickly change her mind if she had evidence of new contact.

I hope this is somewhat helpful to your questions. May I ask why you asked? Does the H want the marriage?

<small>[ March 18, 2003, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: est ]</small>

Is it just me or is there an ironic tinge to Honey's heavy-handed advice giving?

I am sincerely trying to understand all of us. Maybe the bottom line is we both just love the man and choose to believe what makes us more comfortable with the choices we make. Why we all do what we do. He knows current evidence would change things again but still it does not seem to stop him. And I am responsible for my actions as well.

There are no children involved, I could not handle knowing that, for what it is worth.

MS. RED

Sounds like you know my H. I have been with my H for 11 years. I am currently trying my best to catch him in action. is am working for my marriage. But at some point I will let him face the consequences of his actions. In my case, he will lose it all because he simply can not afford the life style he has without me. Spouses stay for different reasons, one of which is love. However most of us realize that love isn't a feeling, its an action. However most of us work on our marriage becasue it is the right thing to do. But it does have its limits.
My husband thinks i will put up with it forever, What he doesn't know is i have a plan. I am waiting for the right time. I am going to tell his girlfriends boyfriend. I am going to leave him with all of the bills and responsibilities that are his. I will not bail him out. If he loses, he loses. And he already lost the most important thing, his integrity and character as well as his family.

I don't blame you for taking the time to get your ducks in a row. You have every right to do that and go with YOUR time frame, not someone else's and with your own agenda, not his.

Has he been one that had more than one EMR, or just one? Anyone with children needs to do what will benefit them first. Forget consideration for anyone else.

Maybe he's an incredibly good liar. Maybe his wife NEEDS to believe that he's worthy of another chance (obviously he wasn't.) Maybe his wife is acting from a heart of mercy.

I'm a FBS...but I'm also a FWS, so the answer to one of your questions is "yes". It IS possible to completely stop seeing the OP and to stop loving and respecting them. I did it. I saw that my selfishness was killing me from the inside out - literally. God did not create me to live in a world of chaos, confusion and pain.

My H and I are a success story <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , and we both consider our relationship an incredible gift.

As for Honey's response, I don't think it was heavy-handed at all...merely blunt.

Lori

I think Honey was asking an honest question. Blunt but honest. Maybe the truth is the man does not deserve either of us yet we both choose to believe him for our own reasons. And it could be she is just trying to do that.

And he made a statement in the beginning that she is not sure she can ever trust him. My reply was "Well you are here talking to me again, so she can't, right?" This is a day to day process for me and doing a lot of thinking.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My question is this.....does she really believe that he will just stop seeing this other woman and just overnight stop loving her and seeing her just because he says so? Can she tell herself that and how does she do that? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is no way to answer this question in general terms, each person is different.

I didn't believe he would stop loving her. Frankly, if he could have turned the emotions off that fast he wouldn't be the kind of man I want to be married to.
But I did believe he would be true to his word with regards to the no contact. I was wrong.

In my case, I knew it would be difficult for my WH, but since I didn't have any feelings of longing for the OW I grossly underestimated exactly HOW hard it was going to be for him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ms. Red
Junior Member
Member # 26437

posted March 18, 2003 08:49 AM
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I am trying to understand all of us and that includes her. Can anyone answer this? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why are you even bothering trying to understand what the BW's actions or reactions are?

She has nothing to do with your relationship with your MM does she?

It's not as if you really care about her right?
You just really want to know how on earth she could stay with him after finding out.....and why she didn't boot him out the door and make him run to you.

IF on the other hand you DID care about her and her feelings then you would be the bigger person and let this relationship with HER husband go and never speak to him again....after all.....he really is cheating on both of you....if you want to get technical about it.

His wife WANTS to believe that he has stopped and that his feelings will go away overnight.....and until she has proof that nothing is going on she will go on believing it.

You can bet though that after a couple of times of finding out.......she may act like she belives him.....but underneath...she will be watching his every move and learning how to play the game just as well as he does.....she may even be doing it now.

Now....what I'm trying to understand is why you even bother making the wife any of your business. She has absolutely nothing to do with your relationship with HER husband does she?

It's good that you're re-thinking this situation. It's really very serious; lives and futures hang in the balance. That sounds dramatic, I know, but it's so true. Fantasy has a way of blowing up and shattering lives when we least expect it. It ALWAYS does, eventually.

You do realize that you deserve better than this, don't you? Would you really WANT to spend the rest of your life trying to trust a man who would cheat on his wife and lie every single day?

Please think long and hard. Do what's right. In the end you'll want to know you did the right thing because it was the right thing to do. You WILL be glad you got the chaos out of your life, believe me. Cutting it off - completely - will cause temporary pain and loss, yes, but it won't be nearly as tragic a loss as you might think. It'll open up a whole new life for you -- go for it.

Lori

Hi Ms. Red,

I would like to offer that even though you may think you know what is going on in the married man's home and marriage, based on what he's telling you, you really don't. Most likely he is filtering and conjoling the truth and what he is allowing you to know.

Have you ever considered this?

Jo

Ms Red...how do you know that you know the whole story? He's lying to you just as he's lying to her.

If you've read all that is presented on this site, you'd understand that she may be in Plan A. You would also understand that many people have several "d-days" and that coming out of the fog of an adulterous relationship more than not, takes time.

It took my husband 3 d-days to see the xow for what she is. The thought of her and what he did disgusts him now. All this from a man who swore she was the most wonderful person that had ever walked the earth.

It is not your place to understand her. You have invaded her life without her permission and you have no rights there. I wonder if you were so confident of your relationship would you feel the need to post here.

Ms Red

Your married BF is manipulating the both of you, and you seem to know it. For the security of having someone to love you and to love, you and the wife live with it. But what is the cost in the long run, your selfesteem, integrity, sense of selfworth for being part of a life of secrets?

My WW is addicted tothe OM, it is very painful for her to imagine life without him. She hasto live through much more pain to realize she can live again without the deceit and lies. But for now, as in your situation, things are just moving along, with the three of us here, me supporting the family and house, her, taking all of my support and giving her love and affection to OM. Room for resentment, you bet. When your lover's wife wakes up enoght to become angry, then it could get ugly.

Since he can't break it off with you, you really should break it off with him. I know, easier said than done. You are addicted also, to him. His wife to him, he to having the both you. (as a guy, if I had two women I could be with I'd feel pretty good about myself, in a very selfish sort of way)

You seem to be a good person in a wrongful situation, not a preditor or someone willfully breaking up a household, but that's how you will look with it all crashes down.

It's good you are here to try to understand affairs and what really happens when the fantasy wears off.

Good luck, I hope the pain for the three of you will be as little as possible.

DRS

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Miss Priss:
[QB][QUOTE]Ms. Red
Junior Member
Member # 26437

posted March 18, 2003 08:49 AM
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She has nothing to do with your relationship with your MM does she?

See, I'm not sure if I think that. I think as maybe bad as it sounds, we are all entangled with each other. I'm not saying that in a boasting kind of way, I just always saw it that way. I am probably not making sense with that one.

Red,

First off, I agree with honey!

Second, the fact that he is still with his wife says that he doesn't really want to leave her or he would have.

You are the fool here. How do you know he told his wife he loved you? Because he said so? The same man who is lying to his wife, what makes you think he is telling YOU the truth? This is a case of two liars trying to make the other believe (you and him). Of course he tells you he loves you and buys you gifts, you are giving him sex right? It is a small price to pay for the man. I think there is a name for that too!!

When he ends it with you, he will still be with his wife, and if he needs to, he unfortionately will find someone else to have A with, and tell her how much he loves her too.

So again, I say what Honey said, give up the married man and find a single one of your own. The wives are not usually the cold, heartless, fat, ugly women they are made out to be, women who don't "understand" their husbands or fail to meet their needs. (and don't buy that "I'm not having sex with my wife" BS either, another lie!).

So why does the wife stick around? Because she has morals and character, because she believes in the vows and the committment she made to her H. Because she knows H better than anyone. But probably most of all because she truly loves him, total, unconditional love, and not just cheap sex while sneeking around and lying, and hurting others with no remorse and no cares except for ones self.

So does that answer your question RED? Think about who is lying to whom!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jph:
<strong>Ms Red...how do you know that you know the whole story? He's lying to you just as he's lying to her.

I wonder if you were so confident of your relationship would you feel the need to post here.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not confident about anything, that is why all the questions regarding all three of us. I'm trying to understand. I have absolutely no idea what he tells her anymore than she does of what he tells me. I know that much. I think he is trying to stuff everything back in and have what he did before without scrutiny from her or questions from me. Thanks for your input.

Ms. Red,

I just wanted to give in my 2cents.

If a husband is doing and saying these kinda things, what kind of man is he????
When he got married, he promised to keep his wife safe and he promised her "heaven".

If he was a man with "character" why is he playing these kinda games???
If he was so honest with OW why doesn't he just get divorced??
Why do OW think that a man that betrays his wife is truely being honest with them?

If OW would open her eyes and her ears, she would be able to see between the lines.
The WS is showing himself from the worse side and also from his best side. (hope this makes sence)

The only thing that is honest is him displaying how sneaky he is and how good he is being a lier.

I believe that the OW when she really would think about this very seriously, she would "RUN"!
A man that will do this to the woman he promised "heaven" to, will do it to her too, unless he becomes aware of how much of a "coward" he actually is.

He has a choice to put in all this effort to make his marriage work and not to just "run" away with some OW.
He could stop "avoiding conflict" and face it.
There are so many things that a WS could do, but they just try to choose the easy way and they think everything will be better.
It usually just gets worse.

I believe WS that are still in an affair are "perfect" liers and his wife probably doesn't have a clue.

He is the man that she married and he is the man that she adored. As she has never been the OW in their relationship, she isn't aware that he can lie so greatly.
The OW gets to hear his lies. She gets to hear his honest opinion about his wife.
He's absolutely a "coward"!! It's so easy to talk bad about someone behind their back!!!!
It probably even feels better when the OW agrees and tells him what a great guy he is.
Again, if OW would think seriously, I think she should be scared!!!!

If he is able to do this to the woman he promised the world to, he is surely capable to do it to any OW!!!! Maybe not right away but as soon as "reality" hits their life, he will show his true face!!!!

So, Ms.Red, if you are saying :
My question is this.....does she really believe that he will just stop seeing this other woman and just overnight stop loving her and seeing her just because he says so? Can she tell herself that and how does she do that?

How can OW believe what he is saying???? Can OW just tell herself that she is so special and that the married man is being honest with her??? Can OW really just say this??? I honestly don't think so.

I just think your MM is very convincing and you too are believing everything he is saying.
You are being "used" and you feel so special about this! Yuck!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

take care
bb

Since you seemed to allude to the following question....

The reason why the H is continuing to lie to W and see you is likely because his feelings for you are affecting his intellectual side. His selfish desire for short-term feelings is clouding his judgement regarding his own character and long-term consequences. I think H knows that eventually W will find out but it doesn't play into his decision making as much as it realtistically should.

I might suggest that the same "fogging" might be in play in your mind. Perhaps not to the same extent as the H since it's kind of neat how you're in this processing mode rather than choosing not to think about it. I hope that you are able to come to some conclusion and not just run around in circles.

Most people do what they do "for their own reasons". There's nothing inherently wrong with that. Heck, I'm posting this reply "for my own reasons". So the fact that W is doing what she is doing for her own reasons is a not-so-meaningful truism unless you go into the specific reasons.

I think it's sort of the same thing for "comfortable" also. It could be comfortable short-term or comfortable long-term with both options being completely different. So it's sort of vague without going into more specifics.

Any good luck and I hope you continue to ask questions and post comments.

RE: Heavy-handed v. blunt v. honest. That's not really the point. Call it whatever people want. My point was the irony. (Which is only apparent from reading other threads, so can be ignored for the purposes of this discussion)