If you're confused by your W's erratic actions .... imagine how it feels inside herhead! Like a blender stuck on "high". zzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

She feels unworthy ... she is confused about your loyalty and your lasting love. She may feel jealous that she does not feel this sort of loyal and faithful love toward you.

Pull all your integrity and inner strength into play .... she is one lost girl.

I really feel your kindness and your persistence will wear down her defenses ... if you have the stamina and the patience.

Know what .... have your daughters arrange to meet their Mom at some resort .... and YOU be there instead. Ambush her. Greet her with flowers, with open arms.

That's your Plan-A -Ace-in-the-hole.

Good luck!

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Wow, Pepper! LOL! That would certainly be an agressive move. Seems a bit risky, but I'll ask my Ds about it.
Went by my WW's work today to pick up a computer for my older D to take back to college. She is a junior this year, psychology major, dean's list last three quarters in spite of all we've been going through. Yes, I'm proud.
Anyway, told WW that Ds would not be able to go out of town with her this weekend because we will be getting things ready for my parent's wedding anniversary celebration party. Fifty years Saturday, is that great or what?
I suggested that maybe WW and Ds could do something closer to home Friday night. WW said that she hates driving the fifty miles back to her mother's house late at night. She may have been hinting at spending the night at our house. WW had mentioned this to my younger D last week but wanted me to spend the night somewhere else. I am going to ask the girls and see what our FC thinks about this tomorrow, but I don't want to spend Friday night anywhere except in my own bed.
WW then said she knows how difficult it is for me when she is around. I told her that this was not the case at all, that I was happy to be together whenever we got the chance. What I didn't say is that it is obvious how uncomfortable WW is when she is around the girls and I. I hope we can help her get past it soon.

Talked to my attourney today. He had called WW's attourney about the returned seperation papers I received last week and any divorce filing. WW's attourney said that no divorce has been filed for, or even mentioned. And the changes to the seperation papers had been made 6/3/03! WW did not give her attourney OK to send them until last week, two months later. What the hell is this woman thinking?

23:

don't try 2 figure it out! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Did your lawyer have any suggestions as 2 what 2 do? Can you stall?

-2long

My D's went to WW's workplace yesterday evening so that she could take them shopping for school clothes after work. As they are waiting in WW's office the receptionist pages to let her know that OM is on the phone. WW takes the call, then turns to the girls and asks if there is anything they need to talk about. Needless to say chaos ensued. Before it was over all were crying and screaming at each other and older D had thrown up. WW's co-workers heard much of this.
It now seems that WW contacted OM by phone well over a month ago (after NC of about five weeks) and has been in contact every day since. Though WW and OM have not seen each other in over four months he will be coming here to spend next weekend in a hotel with her and will even be attending her company's summer party.
Today I spoke to both OMW and OMD. OMW said that OM had moved out of their house about a week ago and had told her that he might be considering divorce, but she did not know that he was in contact with WW. OMD was aware of the contact. She said that OM had told her that he could not live the rest of his life without WW and she feels the same. Apparently both will be able to live without their spouses of 23 and 34 years. OM also told his D that he is going to divorce and is hoping to bring WW to Canada to be with him ASAP. OMD said that she is going to do whatever she can to stop this but believes OM is determined.
My Ds and I are badly hurt. We though that we were beginning to see some movement toward a family life in recent weeks. Ds have not spoken to WW today. She called me, but only to complain about my phone calls to OMW and OMD. She did confirm everything above, including next weekend. Everything considered I know it seems petty, but one of the things that bothers me is the party next weekend. I am close to many of her co-workers. I have been to their houses, gone to ballgames with them, and have attended all company functions. I considered many of them to be my friends. How can WW walk into the summer party, still my wife, with the husband of another woman and look anyone in the eye? The fog is a terrible thing.
Plan B or Plan D? I am ready to give up.

23Down,

I do think that plan B is the right way for you to go. WHy? You have done everything else, and the OM is still in the picture. Move to plan B. It has several advantages. One, it let's the OM meet ALL of WW's needs. Two, it preserves your love for you W for a bit longer. But, there is another factor that isn't often mentioned. IF this situation does lead to divorce, then you have already gone through withdrawal from your WW before this hits.

It is NOT really why plan B is implemented but, it is another factor in the implimentation of the plan. You start to really emotionall separate from W and that helps preserve love, but also starts your clock on withdrawal. These two things are NOT inconsistent.

Must go, but do think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Another often overlooked benefit of Plan B is that it paves the way to marital recovery. DO NOT underestimate the difficulty of marital recovery. The initial phases of marital recovery are very tough, and in many cases, tougher than the ongoing affair itself and without enough love left over your marriage will not make it. Start preparing yourself to implement Plan B before it becomes too little too late.

Tomorrow Ds and I are going away to my parent's to celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary. Sunday I will write my Plan B letter and give it to WW the next day. But for financial reasons I will also be going to my attourney and trying to put together a seperation paper that WW is willing to sign. I need to protect my Ds and myself. If WW wants to force me into an disillusion so be it.
We have tried so hard. We thought we had a chance. We believed that WW had been making a real effort to rebuild a relationship at least with her Ds over the last several weeks. But we are so tired of the lying and the deceiving.
WW has been with OM a total of seven times in nine months, and has not been in physical contact with him in over four months. Both she and OM are still married. Yet when older D answered call from WW tonight (she had blocked caller i.d.#), WW said that she may be quitting her job soon and moving 500 miles away to northern Canada to be with OM. Leaving her home and family. Leaving a D who starts her senior year of high school next week. Looking, she says, for happiness.
I still love WW for who she was and for all she has given me in the past, and I believe that in time I can forgive her for anything she's done, but I am not sure that I could ever love her enough again to restore our M.

23down, I doubt very seriously if WW and OM have not been physically together last 4 months. I believe they have and just got more sneaky and more deceitful about it! 500 miles is not that much to cover when you each drive half way. can be done and back in a day! In fact, I'm sure each could conduct truthful sounding stories of overnight business for work, or staying with a friend. Of course, air flight can be covered much quicker too if you meet half way!
How do I know? I used to drive almost that far and back in one day to gamble! I was addicted so I'd go, gamble and return home same day!
That was my addiction which I overcame, and thankfully I was not in an A. MY H had been and that put me into a depression that also put me into gambling addiction as escape.
As for Plan B. My understanding is not to have contact so you do not meet any EN's of WW.
That should have been done the day she moved out!
She still had her EN fed by coming to home anytime, playing mom and cooking dinner for all?
Many won't agree with me, but there is fog and then there is plain downright low, self centered, selfish, moral decay!
And your D's should never have had to be put in the middle. Let her go! NC at all other than for possibly girls needs. Keep it to business for them, nothing about you!
Separation is the first step and can be taken all the way to divorce under the same filing later on!
Protect you, girls and assets. She wants her OM, let her walk with the bare minimum. Ergo, clothes on back!
LBing is what everyone says don't do. But who is LBING? The betrayer and you're right, there will come a point where the love is killed to a point of not being able to ever recoup.
That said, I am A BW and My H and I have rebuilt our marriage to a very good relationship. But the love I once had is no way near that now.
And I'm one of the blessed ones in that the moment I found out, it ended then!
Honestly, I commend those here who do the plans and patiently wait. I'm not one of them.
I'm a "make your decision now and don't waste anymore of my life with floundering around"!
If there been ever moving out with OW, or continueing contact, he would be so far history it wouldn't even be recordable!
You love her? But for how long can you continue that without losing a part of it and yourself?
The B plan says NC or meeting her EN anymore. And I think OM is playing a game!
LouLou

P.S. will be praying for you. This type of pain is most horrible type to bear. No one should ever have to endure it either!
LouLou

23:

The sad part about cases like these is that your WW's behavior since she supposedly last spoke 2 the OM 4 months ago is now understandable - the A is ongoing. It didn't "end" na2rally, so it isn't surprising they broke NC. They "had 2." Soulmate crap and all that.

The "good news" if there is any, is that this kind of si2ation may be optimal for the MB plans. I think you did an admirable job of plan A up 2 this point (your Ds, 2!), and now might be an ideal time 2 go 2 plan B and force your W and OM 2 try 2 cope with reality without your support.

I always hate 2 see these things happen like this, but I do have 2 admit that when it's as clear-cut as this is, the plans have their best chance of working.

We're thinking of you and your family,
-2long

Thank you for all replies. Yes, reasons for WW's behavior over the last few months are now clear, though I don't think I can say understandable.
I do feel that my Plan A was solid and it is now time to go to Plan B, if not for my M then for my Ds and myself.
I am asking for any and all advice from members who are currently in or have been through Plan B. I will try posting on Mimi's new group thread for support as well as here. 2long, JL, Pepper, TMCM, and everyone else please stay with me. And if I could possibly hear from Mortarman the Plan B Master I would really appreciate it.

Has anyone on the MB forum also included their adult children in the Plan-B black out?

I think your Plan-B would be sooooo much more effective on your WW if she was also blacked-out by her children ...... but I have to wonder if it would be "good" for the children?

In theory, doesn't the love the girls have for their mother also suffer from her lying cheating ways?

This is very unusual, I realize.

Just wondering if anyone else has ever tried this adult children Plan B and what effect it may have had?

Of course, it would only work if each individual adult child wrote their own Plan B letter as well .... otherwise the WW would 100% blame YOU for the kid's Plan B black out.

sheesh .... your W is going to be soooo messed up by her decision.

I suppose the OM's adult children could be doing their own Plan B as well..... the affair "glow" will suffer mightily if the cost of the A is super, super high .... pretty much isolation from their entire past lives and loved ones.

What a concept! ..... rather drastic .....

Bash my head at will.....

Pep (wearing my helmet)

<small>[ August 16, 2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pepper:

I don't think there's anything fundamentally "wrong" with that idea. In fact, get the OMW and HER adult children in on it, 2! Get them on board with MB, maybe even get everybody talking 2 one of the Harleys, and really formulate a plan of action here.

Now, that may be pushing the enveolope a bit, but at least the heat will be off you, Pepper! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2long

Took Ds to my parent's anniversary party yesterday and had a great time. So many old friends showed up. My father gave a beautiful speech about my mother and their marriage. Fifty years together and they are obviously still very much in love. It is wonderful to see.
On the way there I noticed that I had a missed call on my cell phone, a message from WW. Friday I had spoken to OMW and OMD and WW had found out about the calls. Each time I speak to OMW, it seems, she calls OM who then whines to WW. The message was vicious. WW said that since we are in contact with OM's family again she is stopping all deposits into our joint checking account, and stated "Your keeping the house is dependent on me, and I'm going to see that you loose the f**king house if I can now." My Ds heard the message and didn't even seemed surprised, just hurt. Older D said it had just been a matter of time before WW tried to use the house to manipulate us. WW sounds so angry and desperate. I believe that she is afraid that OM is going to find her to be "not worth the trouble", the exact words he said about her to my D four months ago. Even in the fog WW may be thinking of this and she is trying to take actions, like taking him to the company party and threatening our security, to prove herself to him; burning every bridge behind her this time. And she is leaving herself no way back home.
The idea of including my adult Ds in a Plan B black out is very intriquing. I also would like to hear from any MB members on the idea. My older D said that she may refuse to speak to her mother until WW puts money in our account, a type of reverse blackmail I suppose. Very sad. The girls may well be willing to join me in Plan B, but I am afraid it will be more for the withdrawl aspects of the plan at this point than for restoring the M and our family. They still love their mother of course, as do I, but she is giving us very little to hope for.

I think this is an interesting topic and am bumping in hopes of getting more replys.
Ds have not spoken to WW since D-day II Thursday. WW has been calling house and cell phones repeatedly but we are not answering yet, though I think Ds will soon. We are all depressed thinking about her walking into the company party this weekend with OM. How can she, my W, be going to introduce him, another womans H, to co-workers and friends? The woman has no shame.

23 Down-

I haven't posted to you before, but I am in Plan B 7+ months, and I have adult children, so my story may be of some use to you. D-day for me was more than a year ago. Then, on Labor Day 02 weekend, WH sat down with S(25) and D(23) and told them that he was "in love with another woman" and expected them to be happy for him. I think he was genuinely surprised that they were anything BUT happy.

Over the next 5 months WH talked frequently with S, who is a case worker for mentally ill adults, about his confusion, unhappiness in the M, etc, each time vowing to end contact w/OW and try to work it out with me. Each time WH would invariably re-initiate contact. D was also asked by WH for her advice. Our children, like yours, were involved in the drama of the A and became confidantes of WH, getting to know firsthand what fog looks like. To this day S and D are disgusted by the lies WH told them.

WH moved in w/OW on New Year's Eve. He had promised S on Christmas that he would end contact w/OW and try again with me, so another lie. D saw WH every 2 weeks or so (she was a student at the college where he works), though not much to say. WH finally called S in May, knowing that there might be some interaction due to D's graduation. WH kept up his fog talk, saying, "you'd do the same thing if you were married to your mother", and that, "this kind of thing happens every day, get over it". S was appalled, angry, told his father not to contact him again until he had come to his senses. D continued short conversations with her father on an infrequent basis. An incident involving WH bringing OW to a family gathering in late June had S calling his father to say he had disrespected his family, there would be no contact between them, maybe never.

Because D still talks to her father, though limited, and S has NO contact it seems my family is in a half Plan B blackout. WH has seen, however, that he has wrecked the family we once had, and that trying to get his kids on board with his new life will not be easy, at best. WH called me last week, wanting to know if there was any chance of reconciling, and I think the behavior of his children toward him contributed to this call.

Both of my children have handled this situation in their own ways. S is probably protecting me to some degree, but he is a law and order type guy, and not afraid to do the right thing. D is a conflict avoider, and has several close girlfriends whose father's have not been a part of their lives, so she has been reluctant to cut all ties to her father, though she hates what he has done.

If you do go to Plan B, and suggest it to your D's, please make sure that it is their decision to do so. In my case I think that my kids keeping away from their father's new life has caused him to take a peek out of the fog. Maybe it will work that way with your WW, too. My thoughts are with you.

Lablady

Me BS 48
WH 48
M 25 yrs
S 25, D 23
OW 45 widow/co-worker

lablady, thank you for your post. It was good to hear that your H called and asked about reconciling (after a Plan B of nearly eight months, if I remember correctly) but I don't remember your reply to him. Have you had any further contact with him, and have you decided which way to proceed?
I am definitely going to Plan B, probably tomorrow. Younger D spoke briefly to WW today, older D has not spoken to WW since last Thursday/D-day II. Both of them are aware of how PB is designed to work, but it would be hard on them to do a full NC. I think that they are more likely to have limited contact with WW while I do the PB, and that may work well. Ds can make certain WW understands that PB is about protecting my feelings for her. Hopefully WW will see what NC is about by my PB and be forced into action by the idea that Ds may follow if she remains in A.

23 Down -

It's a shame you have to go to Plan B, but it seems to be the best choice for you right now. It will be difficult at first, but you will get stronger as time goes by. For me there was no other option, I couldn't take the waffling and broken promises any more, or the total lack of respect. A person can only take so much. As you know, there are no guarantees with Plan B, but in my case, and maybe in yours, the WS has to see for themselves what life with the OP is really like, and the BS has to prepare for the possibility that the WS won't come back. Hopefully, your WW will come to her senses soon.

I agree with you about your Ds having a hard time doing NC with their mother. I caution you, though, about your Ds being a conduit for information between you and your WW, as it will defeat the purpose of Plan B. If you can keep the information about you blocked from your WW she will learn what life is like w/o you much sooner than if she knows what you're doing in your daily life. For your own sanity, too, don't ask your Ds about WW, it will take you longer to detach from her. It was only after I stopped contacting MIL, a huge source of info about WH, and stopped asking D about her contact with her father, that I really started to feel better. I'm curious, have your Ds met OM? Meeting OW was the last straw for my kids, it's what prompted S to call his father one last time in June.

Thanks for asking about my WH contacting me. It was 10 days ago and I haven't heard from him since. I wasn't really counting on it. I have to admit to a certain amount of satisfaction knowing that all is not well in paradise. At the end of our conversation I told WH that he had to end his A before we could sit down and talk, and to call me again when he was ready. I should have told him that I wouldn't wait forever.

23 Down many people have posted their Plan B letters here for some advice, I did. I know this is hard, but I can't think of anything better to do!

Lablady

23 down. I think the idea of D's involved in plan B is excellent. But it has to be by their agreement so they feel comfortable with it.
I also think D's should write mom a letter asking why she would harm them, putting them out of a home for her lover? The blackmail is way out of line.
And how is your law there about wife having to pay child support? Isn't it until the children are out of college or 21?
I do not understand any mother who would do this to her own children for some other man. But it takes all types today!
And it's time you got a lawyer if you haven't already to settle this support issue.
One last statement. If she can do this to her own children, I couldn't give her the time of day ever again.
She's not sounding worth the effort!
After all her actions, she cannot rebuild the love with her children they once had. There may be love, but it's guranteed they can never turst her, or respect her again.
She's digging her own grave! And it wouldn't surprise me if the kids wanted to slip a banana peel under her feet now.
LouLou