kily:

LA. Staples Center. Of course, we were up in nosebleed territory! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Homey don't play football, so Lucy's no threat! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-Qfwfq

<small>[ April 24, 2003, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: Qfwfq ]</small>

Q-

LMAO-

Maybe it's time for a third cyber funeral? Perhaps tootieq will be surfacing soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

kily:

I've thought about reviving ol' 2long, because my desire to show my W my posts never materialized (her interest, that is, I did ask her if she wanted to). But I don't remember his password, and wouldn't know how to get it (because I closed the email account, 2).

Maybe he and I could be my Jeckyl and Hyde? But which should be which? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

-ol' 2... I mean, Qfwfq! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

What am I missing here...or am I just Spaced <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ?
Why is cerri going to kill you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

SC:

It's in reference to my last post on Alostsoul's thread, about unconditional love. I removed it. Too much of a distraction for ALS.

Apologies

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
-Qfwfq

<small>[ April 24, 2003, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Qfwfq ]</small>

Wow !
Looks like another big 2long thread.

One of the reasons I think you ought to call Steve again is to see if you can get some idea of how your time line is coming. I was going to say I believe your W will be showing outward signs by next fall, but I don' have any "reason" for saying that. I think you need a reality check that Steve could provide for you.

Oh, well, at least you are doing reasonable well for the shape you are in.

SS

SS:

I've been a bit reticent about calling SH back for a couple of reasons.

number a) So far as I can tell, my W still thinks little of MB methods.

letter 2) The Harleys have what I consider a misconception of just what unconditional love is. What it is NOT is a method of ending an A. What it IS is currently being demonstrated rather dramatically by SC.

I am cogitating about going to David Schnarch's website for a reference to a local counselor. edit update. I checked their website, and they seem to cater to "fly-in" therapy. A bit costly for me.

-2fwf2

<small>[ April 24, 2003, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: Qfwfq ]</small>

Dawg!

I haven't been this sick in a 2long time (no, it's not SARS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Not 2 worry!) A flu, and dag nabbit I've been going 2 get flu shots for years now, and have never had more than a mild one or 2 for a few hours since then. This one is NOT 2 FUN!

I'm getting so delerious, I'm having a hard time remembering just who I am?? Who do I answer 2?

And how do you spell the word 2? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

-2fwf2.

Oh, my!
Sorry you're under the SARS, (Don't those planes from China land there first...? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) er, I mean under the weather! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Just so we don't cause a "rukus" (sp?) I'd clarify your statement about MB and ULove by saying that the Harleys concentrate on the "romantic love" side of the picture, which is clearly necessary and clearly conditional, while others concentrate on the "unconditional" love side of things, which is clearly wonderful and desirable, and adds a much-needed dimension to relationships and life in general.

I think that today, having lived both, I am much more inclined towards the theory that it is a combination of both (in higher/lower proportions) which is the ideal. Take my case: I have developed (or re-discovered is probably more accurate) a fair degree of unconditional love for my W, which allows me to love her, treat her well, respect and support her, even under the present circumstances. In addition, this love which asks for nothing in return, allows me to be far more tolerant of NOT receiving "conditional love". However, and this is clearly the reason for the divorce, I too require some of that conditional love, and the reciprocity of my care, love, devotion, support, honesty, and commitment. Since I cannot get those from her, then it is clear that I must move on.

What unconditional love does is it helps me be a better person, and be happier and less dependent. It is not, by itself, a replacement for the romantic love one wishes for from a spouse, but rather a complement to any relationship.

SC:

I agree, but you've stated it so eloquently. And it's your case precisely that underscores the true value, and need, for a better understanding of unconditional love and it's role in our lives.

Too often, it seems to me here, couples end up DV'd at the end of a cookbook process that leaves them bitter toward each other, unable to accept their former spouses for who they've chosen to be.

Yes, marriages are based, in large part, on romantic, conditional love. But with unconditional love, better understood and applied in all facets of our lives, the chances of any marraige or any other kind of relationship ending with bitter resentment are greatly reduced (and fabulously so, in your own case).

I realize that the Harley methods aren't really exclusive of unconditional love, even though they focus on restoration of romantic love to save marriages. What I have my greatest trouble with, is the misrepresentation of unconditional love as a "fallacy" to be avoided. I have had my greatest successes in my own sitch by applying what I'm learning about unconditional love to my interactions with my W. And though we're getting along pretty well, better all the time, I would sincerely like to resume counseling, if for no other reason than to encourage BOTH of us to go to a good MC together. But because of their strong, misleading and confusing statements about unconditional love, I don't think the Harleys can fit the bill for me at this time.

-Qfwfq

I like to think that it is my loving, non-confrontational behavior that is allowing us to live in peace, and divorce in peace.

And regardless of what I may think of the things my W has done, and the pain they cause me, she is also behaving quite nice.

I suspect there's also a realization with her that this is the end of the road for me, and an acceptance of that. Perhaps even an understanding that this is the fair or just thing for me. Maybe even the first time throughout all of this that she accepts that I too have rights. Almost a degree of happiness for each other's choices and an acceptance of that.

I'm not quite sure how else to describe it.

It almost seems unreal that we're divorcing, and yet, even in the last few days of being together, we're enjoying each other's company, and laughing, hugging, being OK. Today I almost invited her to see my new apartment...chickened out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (that might be pushing the goodwill too far?)

I don't know, but I believe we'll continue to be good friends...who knows? Let's let things happen and see...

SC:

Your "loving, non-confrontational behavior" = unconditional love.

End of discussion.

-Qfwfq

<small>[ April 27, 2003, 12:41 AM: Message edited by: Qfwfq ]</small>