Well, if I set my boundaries firmly in the sand, and tell him "Decide you want me and want to work on this wholeheartedly, or forget intimacy buddy. He'll have to live with just conversations, and if he wants more, he'll have to ask me out on dates...", then keepmvn4wrds's principle of "men are like puppies.. chase them they run away... walk away from them, they come back...." will hopefully apply and work.

It sort of did already. Last month when I told him that he was probably right, that we should just both give up and move on, and get divorced, and made it clear that I felt at the time like there was no hope for us, he went berzerk. He started calling me repeatedly on a few occasions, etc. It was a little like he was pursuing me.

The thing is, that's not how I want to be pursued, phoned numerous times, and yelled at and being told I'm condascending and high-fallooting because I've had enough. He never changed his behaviour really. He still was only willing to be with me secretly and in private, for sex.

BUT I guess I allowed it to continue that way, so I got what I settled for. No settling this time!

Dates, not at my apt. or his house. Dates, or no seeing each other. Period.

Jen

quote:
This is equally true for women. Just read what happened with other FWW like imready2try, Morticia, butterfly emerging, srswiger, etc, when their H's said to them "we're thru".

TMCM,

Yes, you are correct, it is equally true for women. The whole point is that even if you do not FEEL like letting go, the other person must SENSE it. That is why it is so important to fake it if you have to. You can see by the number of people you mentioned that REALITY shows us this is how and when they want to come back. Reality also shows us that pursuing them, even with the smallest pressure just does not work. Yet, people keep trying and trying and trying. NO PRESSURE at all is the key.

Jen, I may be way off here but you seem to be letting your guilt of your ONS's (consciously or subconsciously) and posible fear of losing your H, sabotage your efforts to stick to your boundaries. Remember that even though you are a FWS your H is an active WS who's reacted to your limited request for NC in the fashion of all cakewalking spouses react when their BS's tell them they can't bear to be part of the triangle and that they want no further contact with them until they end their A and commit to a marital recovery plan. As you so well stated:

<strong>"The thing is, that's not how I want to be pursued, phoned numerous times, and yelled at and being told I'm condascending and high-fallooting because I've had enough. He never changed his behaviour really. He still was only willing to be with me secretly and in private, for sex.

BUT I guess I allowed it to continue that way, so I got what I settled for. No settling this time!"</strong>

That's right, and you deserve to be treated with love and respect. Otherwise his emotional abuse will kill whatever love you have for him and it will be you that will be hellbent in seeking a divorce.

So should I be dishonest with him the next time we interact and let him think I have completely given up on him, and have moved on?

Or should I stick to my plan to tell him to decide if he really wants to be with me and work on this wholeheartedly, or just forget seeing me (but not end all contact)?

I can hear him now, I leave him after he has a woman over for some drinks, and I want him to take me back after sleeping with his BF....

Jen

Hi Jen,

Coffeeman said it wisely, but if I may inject my thoughts too, please...

You said, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So should I be dishonest with him the next time we interact and let him think I have completely given up on him, and have moved on?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is it dishonest? You have given up on him , the way he is acting now, right?

Let him know again that you want to work on your relationship wholeheartedly , and not just be an 'intimacy-buddy', as we call it here on MB. (we all know what we call it in 'real' life!)

He needs to know that YOU have to come first, and not his co-workers. Has he EVER been able to put you first?

You then said,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I can hear him now, I leave him after he has a woman over for some drinks, and I want him to take me back after sleeping with his BF....

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, if you already know what you're going to hear, then you should at least not be surprised. Can't you respond with a simple,

"I love you, and I've told you how sorry I am for what I did. I don't want a life without you, but I don't want a life with you UNLESS you put me first, and quit alligning yourself with co-workers and having drinks with other women. I have to be FIRST, or else I don't want you at all."

End the conversation there, and let him think a while. Perhaps the more you pull back, the more he'll see what he's missing.

Keep all conversations short, until he's willing to work on the R 'for real'. Otherwise, isn't it just a wicked game?(Thinking of that song by Chris Isaak)

Just my take,
H_P

I suppose I have given up on him the way he is acting now.

Intimacy-buddy, lol, such a polite term for a F_ _ _ - Friend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I have said over and over again to myself and in some of my posts on here that I need to come first in his life. Several people have told me that's an unrealistic expectation for some reason. It is good to hear someone agree that it is what I deserve. Thank-you hopeful_person.

Indeed, keeping any and all conversations short seems wise. Otherwise he'll just go on ad nauseum trying to bait me and argue with me, and say unkind things to me.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong>So should I be dishonest with him the next time we interact and let him think I have completely given up on him, and have moved on?

Or should I stick to my plan to tell him to decide if he really wants to be with me and work on this wholeheartedly, or just forget seeing me (but not end all contact)?

I can hear him now, I leave him after he has a woman over for some drinks, and I want him to take me back after sleeping with his BF....

Jen</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Please explain to me how what I said in my previous post is encouraging you to be dishonest?

You look at your H and you remember the warm, kind, loving man you fell in love with. Is the guy that looks like your H and calls on you at all God forsaken hours of the night only to emotionally abuse you, is he the same man?

Am I telling you to give up and file for divorce? NO. But as long as you let yourself get disrespected and abused by this present personality inhabiting your H's body, the chances of your real H ever returning to his body and rebuilding the M, are slim at best.

Boundaries may be the only way to exorcise this demon from your H's body.