Hi All,

Now that I've gotten ANGRY again, I've been thinking a lot about the healing process. Where am I in the grand scale?

It ocurred to me that prior to my A, I became so cut off I never realized how ANGRY I was. After much work, I let go of the ANGER and began to look for answers.

Well I've gone through the seeking (barganing?) stage now and I find that I am ANGRY again. It's not that WHITE HOT, I'm blaming you for everything kind of ANGER. Now it's more like "I don't want to hurt by being around you and I don't want to be near you so stay away from me" kind of anger. Is it all the same or is this a different stage of recovery? I know that I am at the point where I want to severe ALL ties to the man and never even SEE him again if it is possible. Why am I at this extreme again?

I've also been having nightmares for the last week. In them, X is constantly rejecting me, kicking me, hitting me, and eventually we get together again....the last one was VERY scary because it involved the custody of our DS. In this dream, X brought to court a list of documented bruises that DS received at school over a period of time and told the courts that I gave them to DS. In the dream, he also tried to convince the court that I was starving DS!!! I woke up panicking because of the terror that I felt.

Additionally, X has been traveling quite a bit over the last few weeks. He is seeking custodial rights to DS, but in the last 3 weeks he's been away from DS all but 3 days. Yesterday was the worst because he calls me at 4:45 and tells me that I need to get DS because he's traveling in the morning. Ds is 1/2 hour from me and has to be picked up by 6:00 p.m. DS has been asking where Daddy is and when he's coming home. I tell him Working and soon.

I am at the point where I don't even want to talk to him. I never acknowledged his call yesterday and I went to get DS. He called 8 times, but I didn't answer. He called again several times today and I didn't answer. Finally, I let DS call dad to say hello but dad didn't answer.

Am I wrong to ignore these calls? I'm wondering if PLAN-B is the mechanism that frees someone from the guilt of "NOT acknowledging" the other person's behavior. I could have picked up the phone, but I would have hammered X because he gave me 45 minutes notice about going out of town! I was sick in bed with a fever! It's a good thing I checked my voicemail. I don't want to do this anymore....where is the line between being rude, being spiteful, and simply being?

Kily

Sometimes I think we are comsic twins separated at birth <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I have the dreams too. I have the dreams that either we are getting on like a house on fire and back together, or H is hurling abuse at me, telling me how I let him down.

I don't know when you should go to Plan B. I know for me, it was H's constant refusal to address anything and his growing (very quickly) R with Shiney Head. I knew I could not cope with being BS in his face/life, and it made me angry that he would prefer to be with her than try and work on us.

Plan B brought me a huge sense of relief. I knew I didn't have to put up with his anger, denial, lying and blame. It continues to be that way, although of course, I do miss him (particularly last week if you saw my post).

Only you can decide what is right to do for you and DS.

Take care.
Lisa

Hi Lisa-

Yes I agree we are "soulmates" right now---quick duck before a BS throws something at us! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just kidding.

It's interesting because I found myself in a pi$$ing conte$t again with X on the phone. I realized that I was la$hing out at him becau$e I was hurting and I wanted him to hurt to. Just some reaction to show me that he cared. Once I saw this, I stopped.

We were again having the same old conversations and I became angry when he asked me to have his GF watch my son because he couldn't. I blew a gasket and told him that I NEVER intended to leave DS with her and if I found out that HE did that I would see him in court. We got into it, and basically the "You're the one that started this 2 years ago....yatta....yatta...yatta stuff came into play.

Instead of accepting this, I simply stated:
"Yes, I started this, and when I turned around you decided to walk away. I came around too late. We both screwed up so let's stop the madness". I told him then:
"Listen, when I came around, I was sincere. I really wanted to try to fix what was wrong. You decided that I wasn't worth it. You moved on. I can accept that. If you can't love me for who I am, then I can understand that."

He didn't know what to say. I disconnected the line.

X called me four more times trying to "resolve" the issue. I didn't bother to answer the phone and I haven't had words with him since.

Not because I wanted to punish him, but because I didn't want to participate any more.

I'm done. I'm ready to live again, with him, or without him. It doesn't matter anymore.

Kily,

This is actually great for you! You are now where I was back in December. six weeks later, my wife is starting a dialog that led her home at the end of March.

Of course he didnt know what to say. You were perfect. He is a cake eater. You have closed the bakery now. It will only be a matter of time before his discomfort level rises to a point where he will have to do something about it. He may not come back. He may just move one. But his reactions seem to keep telling me that he doesnt know what he wants. but he certainly doesnt want you moving on or not talking to him.

Go full bore Plan B now! what you just posted is a perfect plan B encounter with two people that have a child together. when he called back to patch things up, what he wanted was to return you to the status quo. by not answering the phone or engaging in that conversation, he is stuck in his world alone. Stay where you are. plan B him completely and see what happens. He will either wake up as my wife did. or he will stop stringing you along. Either way, you will be better off for it.

In His arms.

<small>[ May 01, 2003, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

MM-

I wish I could be as enthusiatic as you!

You're right though, I've changed so things HAVE to change....

Thanks for your support.

You handled the situation really well - better than I would have done.

No, it's not revenge or being cruel, it's being realistic, and it's being sick of being told you started something 2 years ago. H used to say that to me "You started it all off when you were off with OM in hotel rooms doing XYZ". Maybe, but can we then go back and say "Well, you started it when you slapped me 6 weeks before we got married"? NO, of course not. The line has to be drawn somewhere. We all make bad mistakes (even mistkaes) in our lives, but we are NOT bad people. You Kily made some bad choices, but boy oh boy, have you ever faced up to that.

I think MM is right. I think you should seriously consider Plan B now. You seem to be in that place where it could work for you. Your anger seems to be draining your love for XBF. I also think why an earth should his GF look after DS. Good call there. DS is meant to be visiting Dad. Of course, if they do get M this situation would have to be reviewed, but I believe you did the right thing.

Take care twinny <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Lisa

Kily,
From what I've seen, and been through lately, the anger and dreams are right on track. I was at the same point when I told my wife to G.T.F.O. a couple of weeks ago. Since then things have started to swing around a little more. We're still working the bugs out, but I'm hoping for the best.

I've been having extremely bad and graphic dreams lately too. I'm not sure if it's because we saw the OM the other day in a store, or if something's just running it's course. Either way, I've began keeping a dream log, and a daily activities log so I can see if my daily routine has any affect on my dreams.

I agree with the others; sounds like a good time to go to a full fledged Plan B. I'm sure it will be hard, but you have to do what you have to do to save yourself and your sanity.

God Bless

Winds of change.....

I happened to pick up my work telephone (at the wrong time) and guess who it was...

He was trying to get me to explain WHY I haven't been answering the telephone. Tried to lay a guilt trip on me ... I haven't talked to DS in a few days and all I wanted was to say hi"...yatta...yatta...yatta.

My response: "This is not my problem".
His response: "he knows"

My response. DS called you this morning. You didnt pick up your phone. Period. His response "I must have boarded the plane
yatta..yatta..yatta...

Then he gets into a schpiel(sp?):
"are you punishing me for something?"
(No)
"Are you mad about something"
(No)
Do you have his karate uniform
(NO)
He asks this question 15 TIMES!!!! I repeat my answer. Then I add, I never received it...

Guess what, I wasn't angry. I felt no need to account to him for my choices...NOTHING!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think you all are right. The tide is finally turning for KILY.

I still wish we had been given a chance, but it really is HIS loss in the end. I do FINALLY see that.

He will be the one traveling while I tuck DS in bed at night, He will be at the airport saying goodnight by phone, while I read a book to DS. His GF will be the one that has to sit alone and wait for him...Not me. He will be stressed and alone in a strange city, while I attend the little league games that DS will play someday. He will occasionally glance outside an airplane window while I feel the wind on my face as I sit and watch DS ride his new bike...

Yup, I'm going to be FINE.

K,
I don't have advice for you. All of the others here have said it so well.

I am thinking of you, and glad to hear that you are feeling so strong.

Keep up the great work,
H_p

Hi All-

Got another call this morning -8:00 a.m. from his job. (Can't call me from his house phone....hmmmmm......wonder WHY)

Didn't ask to talk to DS, only wanted to get an update on loose ends that I comitted to look into ...

Interesting. He wanted to talk to DS SO badly yesterday, he didn't even ASK how he was.

Funny how stepping back gives you perspective.

Yeah, darn funny. You're doing well Kily, you really are. Stand back to see the whole picture. I too agree you will be fine.

Lisa

Thanks Lisa-

How ARE you?

Good thank you. Check my post - I'm on an upward spiral at the mo - being really proactive and busy, not dwelling on what H may or may not do, and making the most of this positive situation, because I know the bad days can (and probably will!) jump up and bite me on the bum <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think a "new and improved" Kily Mark II is emerging - I even saw it in your post to Jen. You go girl!!

Lisa

<small>[ May 02, 2003, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Just received an email from X reiterating the message left this morning. This time he added details about awful turbulance and how for the first time ever he was afraid during a flight.

Gee...I wonder if he thought of me, or her while his life flashed before his eyes...Guess what. I was in a NICE comfy bed, sound asleep, with DS in the next room.

I miss him, but I will no longer tell him.

It sucks, but NC is making life a lot easier.

WOW, this NC thing reslly works...

This weekend, I continued the NC of X. It certainly is affecting him because we really got beyond the "You atrted this two years ago - attituide."

Sunday I called to make arrangements to pick up DS. X pleaded with me to have more time with him because of his traveling. I told him that it wasn't my choice for his traveling and that because he made his choices, it doesn't mean that it's okay to just blow our custody arrangement by the wayside because it suits his needs. X was a bit suprised...(My intent here is to start setting BOUNDARIES because the last time he traveled, I was only given 45 minutes notice to pick up DS).

Somehow we got onto a discussion about everything that is in LIMBO. I told him that I just wanted it settled already. I told him that enough is enough and it's time to sit down and face what has to be done. I explained to him what I had learned on the inet, and told him that I would settle for 50%.

I then went on to say that I wasn't interested in his house or money. I told him that all I ever wanted is the same thing that I want now, his time, his friendship, and his love...From there I explained to him WHY I was ANGRY and Hateful towards him.

I told him to think about his DS. I pointed out how the best that either of us will get is another 7 years apiece of his life. I told him that I WANTED all 14 years. He asked me then:
Does that mean you are looking for SOLE custody. My response was: "NO, I want to share that 14 Years with his father."

I continued after that by telling him that right now all of this can stop. He asked: "HOW". I told him that he already knew the answer to that...

Then I told him that if he was willing to go to therapy with me, figure it out, and committ to working towards a solution, I was willing to offere him EVERYTHING that I've learned. I told him that it would be different becaus ewe both have tools that we didn't know about before. I basically painted a picture for him of how it "could be"...

He seemed VERY recpetive and at some points even stated certain "conditions" that would have to happen if this were EVER to come about... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I was VERY suprised because "NEVER" turned into something else.

All of this was done in a VERY matter of FACT..non demanding way.

Then I started my closing....

"In your heart YOU know that I am sincere." His response was: "I really don't know the truth." My respnse again was: "If your curious, you know where to find those answers...it's all up to you to seek them out."

Then I simply said:

"Unless we decide to work on recovery, I don't want your friendship. I want NC instead. It hurts me too much to be around you while AM is living there. I care, I want this, but I am willing to let go. I have an empty place in my heart just like yours. I need to fill it in. If you decide you can't do this, I respect that...just please respect my wishes too."

There are many things I left out - some of which were a sarcastic acknowledgement by him that he was sleeping with both of us at the same time. Another was that I have gone out of my way to make him happy at my own expense...this was key because he was insisting that "it is all about KILY" and when he acknowledged this...he saw that it WASN'T the case...

I didn't have any nightmares last night...

Kily,

You have been so helpful to me that I wanted to check out your latest thread and see how you were doing as well.

And I can see that with your last post, you are doing wonderfully. The trend I saw was that you were starting to do great with NC, and it really brought your X around, the amount of time he spent attempting to get in touch with you said just that.

I also want to commend you for your strength during that last phone call. The lack of nightmares tells me that you are at peace with the way it went. Sounds like you gave him basically a live Plan B letter. You stood up for yourself and he listened. You told him everything you have been feeling in a very fair, open, honest way. I commend you. I know how hard it is to go into NC, but it seems like it is getting you results almost immediately.

I'll keep an eye on you just like you've been doing for me. I'm not sure how helpful I can be, as I have problems of my own...But I can at least be here to support you and cheer you on. I know you have worked so hard and deserve happiness.

Someone up above made such a great point in this thread, they said that we ALL make mistakes but we can attone for them and move on, learning from them, becoming better people. There's just no reason to dwell on what we've done in the past, who started what, who caused what...The most important thing is that we live for today, and that we move on from this point, not dwell on everything from the past. Learn from it, but don't let it spoil the future. I know you're there, I hope your X can get there, too.

ALS

Oh, I remember what else I wanted to say. About the anger thing.

Anger is a strong human emotion that really is hard to control and sometimes comes out of nowhere. Even 6 months past D-Day, I sometimes think back on what my W did and I get moments of anger. It tries to take me over, and then I get scared and wonder why I am even trying to save the M if I am still so angry.

Then I realize that I am only human, and I'm not feeling anger so much as I am just feeling hurt. And I use anger to try and counter-act that hurt.

But the bottom line is this -- It's natural to feel angry, but the best way to overcome it is to try and not focus on what happened in the past, but what you can do now and for your future. If we all could just learn that the past is in the past, and we absolutely can never change it, I think we'd get angry a lot less, too, and focus more on what we can do NOW.

Again, easier said than done, but I find those thoughts comfort me when the anger starts to try and take over.

ALS

ALS-

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

You're right, it's not an easy decision. For me, it was the right time.

Spiritually, I feel changes in the wind.

Sometimes I have visions, and sometimes I hear a female voice in my head telling me things that DO happen (NO I'M NOT Schizoid...) Last week during one of my nightmare dream cycles, I heard this voice again telling me that "You will be okay but YOU WILL GO BANKRUPT...now wake up your child is crying" When I woke up DS was crying because he was afraid. We had just moved into a new condo and the strangeness scared him. I'm not in bad financial shape at all...

Would I like to pretend that this was just a dream...of course. I know in my heart that this was just another message about my path. For some reason, this situation is NOT done with me. I will lose, but there is a lesson in store because that voice was there NOT to scare me, but to offer me peace through a difficult situation.

The same "type" of experience is going on with X. I feel things and "know" instinctually that this is how things are supposed to be. I am at peace because God is in the driver's seat. I AM where I need to be, and I sense that X is just about at the place where HE needs to be...

Regardless of where the path leads us, I am okay with it...I'm just watching my pocketbook a WHOLE lot closer! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Kily,

Bankrupt has more meanings that just financial. You could invest in someone and lose it all in other ways. I am glad you are coming to some resolutions, but I caution you that your relationship with him the past was one were you both struggled for control of the situation, and where the one that did not get it left to seek someone else.

I don't think it is was a very healthy one, and it won't be a healthy one unless big changes are made. You seem to have made them. Your exBF has not. I have my doubts about him being the one for you, for this reason. I surely cannot recommend a course of action except the one you have taken, but I worry about your tenacious fight to maintain this relationship.

Only you and your exBF can tell or know. But, I would really like to see your growth rewarded. So go carefully here, I think the backruptcy you were warned about may not be financial.

God Bless,

JL

JL!!!

So nice to hear from you.

Your spin on my warning is very interesting. I think that I've already gone bankrupt once based on your observations. I sincerely heed the warning and intend on NEVER doing that again. I'll spend time on this.

Your concern for me is heartening. Thank You for caring...it means the world to me.

I want to reassure you that I will NEVER allow myself to fall into THAT type of "R" with anyone EVER again. This PLAN-B type action is more for MY healing than anything else...and X's too. He needs to know that he's free and that I forgive him and will not hurt him any longer.

You're right, it WAS about power...I don't want POWER, I want a partnership with a person that values me as much as I do them.

I believe in my heart that he is FINALLY starting to get to the point where he is willing to look a little deeper. I am happy that this stage has started for him. He is NOW starting the healing journey...it will take him time though. His issue. I also am convinced, for no reason whatsoever, that in time he will see what I tried to do. He got a very small glimpse of that yesterday...

All I want is for him to get to clarity, forgive me, and himself. Then I'd like for us to work on being the best PARENTING team that we can be for DS's sake. This will take time and patience...

I'm getting to acceptance, FINALLY...and it feels great because I am burdened less and less by the choices that I made. There is STILL occasionally some guilt, but that is more about DS than anything. In time, that will change too.

I can visualize the type of "R" that I want woth someone...I never did that before. I know what is a respectful way of doing things, and I know what isn't...

Thanks for your thoughts...