Dear 2L,

I am sorry your M is in this state. All types of recovery not always possible. Personal recovery though is within the grasp of each person.

I wish you well on your continued personal recovery. May your W one day open her eyes and see the great man that you are. May she one day appreciate you and all you are to her.

I started to write the lyrics to a song by Celine Dion (Because U loved me) and for some reason it keeps playing in my mind but I can't type it all (maybe it is because I can't carry a tune???? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ). I would like to share the thought of that song with all of us here at MB who have gone through sooo much for those who they love.

Don't loose your sense of humor and know you still have the respect of all who know you.

take care,
L.

{{{{{{{{{{{2Long}}}}}}}}}}}

I'm so sorry it has come to this. I know how hard you've tried.

And I have to agree with Pepper---You should NOT be out in the garage on the cot. Don't hand her this fantasyland she has been wanting on a silver platter, inconveniencing yourself and allowing her no discomfort. She needs to get her feet on the ground and her head out of the clouds and FACE REALITY. Her choices and her decisions have consequences. ALLOW her to feel them.

And "talking to the OM?" Wait,, and then wait some more. Your problem isn't really with him right now. It's with your W. Oh yes, I know the seething anger you have towards him. I know that anger well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> But hold off until you find out what is going to happen. Til you see what action your W is going to take.

2Long,,take care of you,,and your kids. And get back in the house!! They need you right now and you need them.

2long,

I dunno... My 2 cents on the cot thing matches what others have said: live your life as *comfortably* as possible. I mean, why make things easy for her? In many ways, the WS would like the BS to believe it's "their choice" or "their misdeeds" or whatever other crap they can think of... Dignity, strength, pride - how about some 'ol ULove for 2long, from 2long??? Let her see you as a paragon of virtue - if it isn't to be, she needs to know what she's missing.

Dear 2:

Wish I had words of wisdom to comfort you, but all I could come up with are gentle thoughts for your gentle soul.

Please take care of you 2LOng.

Jack

gosh, 2L or Q, either way
so sorry that this is what it has come to...

you sound so strong though compared to a year or so ago. You sound calmer, more in control, less reactive. I feel like you have come to this decision in a very reasoned way. I think your W has to make her move, or truly commit to her M. And if she won't make a decision, then you have to make it for her! This limbo has dragged on far 2 long!!!

Q, you deserve a wife who not only say "I love you" back, but who says the "I love you" FIRST and throws in a few kisses for good measure!!!

WOW!

I get all goose-bumpy reading your loving words of support for me. No, for US.

Well, it's been a strange 24 hours!!!

Last night, we had the "great grandmother of an R talk". I think it was good, but it certainly didn't resolve our issues. It just let us make our boundaries clear. Throughout, I told her that I love her, am devoted to fixing our M, I respect her right to have choices, but I do not respect the choices she has made.

She wasn't so much angry with me for talking to our D as she was just plain angry. She had an awful week at work, with one of her field hands basically bringing her friend (co-supervisor) to tears last saturday night with what sounds like a harrassment phone call. Then he tried to call my W and tell her the same stuff. She woudln't talk to him. That was Monday, I think. the company ethics/personnel department folks were brought in and everyone from the field brought in and given a harrassmen/ethics training course, with a couple of key individuals talked to alone.

All throughout the conversation, my character was dragged all over by her. She can't trust me (meaning, I was withdrawn before, why would that change), and even though she acknowledged the changes I've been making, basically believes it's too little too late. (I actually found myself getting drawn into believing what an awful person I've been all this time, all the way back to "pressuring her to have sex when she wasn't ready" ...28 years ago!!!).

My W has called RM every day this week, and plans to keep calling him daily, bugging him to get the analysis done for this report. Then, when this one's done in a couple of months, there's another one she's going to have him work on.

Last night, we started right in with her frustrations with me and my desire to rebuild our M. I won't go into great detail, but note the key points. (though, looking back at this post as I write this, I see I DID go into detail - but there was a LOT more!)

*She reiterated that the MB forum, the iloveulove forum, and my visit to the Peppers' was "stupid" and claims her IC said my participation in the forums is foolish as well. She thinks I should only talk to professionals, and yet she has no respect for the professionals.
*She said that my "requirement" for NC was just plain STUPID (yelled it, among other things) and there was no possible way she would do that for me. Her "A" and R with RM is "unique" and so it doesn't matter one bit to her that every professional therapist recommends NC before marital recovery can begin... ...and she wants no marital recovery anyway.
* told her several times that if she wants to have a friendship with this man she had a 12-year A with, I would not tell her that she couldn't, because I want her to be happy. But I would DV her. I won't impose any conditions on her if we DV, but I will if she doesn't want a DV. No friendships with former A partners.
*She claimed throughout that she has no personal contact with RM. When I pointed out that she herself said some of it was personal, she told me about the latest "personal" which was to tell RM that a mutual friend had died of cancer a couple weeks ago (a gal that she has not seen in several years). Only much later did she admit to me that she called him last Sunday to complain about me after our short argument then. That's personal AND completely inappropriate for our M.
*She believes we haven't been M'd for a "long time" now, and I said "12 years." I want to work to rebuild our M, and she doesn't want a M.
*She acknowledges that she's not "100%" committed to our R, because her affection is divided. She wants to keep RM as a friend, AND she cares "very much for him" beyond friendship and I "can't expect [her] to stop caring for him." She persists in insisting that I require her to stop caring about him, when I remind her every time that I expect her (if she wants to be M'd), to stop contacting him. She talked about this with RM - another inappropriate personal subject.

She said as we were going to bed (I actually tried to sleep on the couch, but it is too short for me, so I went back to bed) that she still thinks we should separate to find out what we want to do. I agreed that it was okay with me if she wants to do that, but that I would favor we stay together and communicate. When she said she may need to separate for herself, and asked me what I would do (regarding waiting for her to make a decision about our future), I said that I would not wait any longer, I would file for DV. I have waited and worked for 15 months, and it doesn't seem to me that she has done anything on her end, or has any desire to do so.
*she pointed out that she does love me and shows me that she does by the fact that she's still here. Well, that's a pretty powerful statement, but if you knew our situation at home, you would see that in many ways, it's actually easier to stay and deal with this than it is to leave and lose what we have together.
*her IC has been advising her about leaving me for some time now, which explains her distancing from me over the past month or more. Her IC also advised her not to just "leave everything to me" if she does leave. So, my W is talking to her IC about dividing our assets. Now, mind you, I do not believe that my W is planning anything underhanded. She's not a scheemer (other than to have a 12-yr A). She never spends money on RM (so far as I know anyway).
*she wants us to remain friends. I believe that I can do that. I want to have an amicable DV, if that's where we go with this.

Today, we woke up and she was friendly. We worked on our other house with my MIL and SIL. I worked on the walls in the upstairs bedroom and she and they worked on the kitchen flooring. She took my van about 2pm and went home to start the soup cooking. She gave me a very nice hug before she left. I got a ride home when I finished what I was doing at 5pm. When I changed and laid down on the bed to chat, she said "I actually missed you after I got back". Weird, huh?

-2long

I just thought of something ironic.

We were sitting watching the lobotomy box a couple hours ago, and "biography" or whatever the related show is called, was on. Guess what about? The Scott Peterson case. A lot of talk about his A and what may have happened.

It was almost as if my W couldn't see the relevance of what was said, but at one point she jokingly (I kid you not!) said "I just think I should have a big red 'A' tatooed on my forehead."

Sheez!
-ol 2long

Also, at one point last night I asked her why she would want me to see other people. She said "so I wouldn't feel guilty." I said "I have no desire to see anyone else. And I won't do that while we're still married, regardless of what you've done."

-2long

And not 2 worry about the cot idea. I'm not going 2 do that.

I'm getting my '2s' back!!!!

-ol' 2long.

I had this whacky idea 2day. Well, maybe it's not so whacky.

Get the laser printer out of storage, buy a couple spare toner cartridges and several reams of paper, and print out every last one of my threads from the past 15 months, put them in a shelfload of 3ring binders, and give them 2 her 2 read as she goes out the door (assuming she ever does).

Whadaya think? Should only be about 5000 posts al2gether by now. But that's not counting the replies!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ♥2long

2L,

Printing out your stuff, do it and then decide if she is worth giving it to. The excercise may be a bit of a stress reliver for you and an eye opener for both of you.

The fact that she said she wanted U to see others so she would not feel less guilty is a basic babble technique. U might think about letting her think her wacko ideas are worth entertaining. Then do not give any details.

WS' sure don't like being kept in the dark about anything. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

"and my visit to the Peppers' was "stupid" ...."

Well .... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I guess that means she's not going to take me up that offer to call me on my cell! TELL HER THAT OFFER STANDS! I am, as a matter of fact, a professional in her HMO !

Your talking to me is "stupid" and her talking to RM is "unique". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> uh-huh .... I see.

You are making her nervous 2-Long... once you become strong in her eyes, some sparks will fly .... and some of it may be born of desire, some may be regret, and some may be the fiendess.

As Schnarch says: "Hold on to yourself" ..... cuz you are about to enter the crucible.

Take your principles and employ them.

Pep

PS ..... I don't see the point of printing out all those posts. If you were on the receiving end of such a tome, what would you think?

"This person's nutz, I ain't reading all of this!"

I would suggest you conduct yourself with more authority and conviction in your demeanor, and leave it at that.

You told me you don't want to "punish" her. This reading assignment seems like "homework" to me, and a tad like punishment.

But, as always, you do what's best for you.

Pep

<small>[ May 04, 2003, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Wow 2long,

Sounds as if she is really in and out of the fog. I guess it is just so hard to really know what to do with these ws's.

I am sure she does love you, but can she control her contact with RM?

I am so sorry still, I am sure you have said this before- but are ther consequences for RM or her, ws, starting to happen. I know you can't give RM a consequence, but he is married right?

Hope to you, H

Pepper said:
I would suggest you conduct yourself with more authority and conviction in your demeanor, and leave it at that.

I agree, because she will want something to blame this on. If you don't let your self get sucked into fighting, if you continue to meet needs, if you don't LB, what can she say?

Often, when their world begins to crumble they lash out. Don't take the bait.

My main concern today is your emotional state. You seem do be doing well. Knowing you, I'll take that as a positive and let you go for now.

SS

Hi 2long and all: checking in to see how my lilbro is doing--this forum reveals deeper thoughts than my quiet bro shows. In the past weeks I've shared a major quandry with my bro, while he makes not a peep about the turmoil he's going through, and he was kind and supportive--referred me to a co-worker for questions, and she commented on what a sweet brother I have! So true!
I am so sorry things have come to this point. I am here for you bro, supporting whatever you need to do. Love you!
For the record, our dad married 18 months after our mom died. I think it was Pepper who commented that often that just means a man who had a happy marriage would naturally want this to continue, and that it's not a slight on his deceased wife. His current wife is weird and not someone we relate to, but she meets his needs somehow, so I've come to the conclusion, unlike my SIL, that he made the right step. Timing was bad--worse that he married weeks after my BIL died--but knowing this woman, now, I think she put the major pressure on...
That's neither here nor there as far as your sitch goes, bro.
Words fail me. Love you!
Bigsis <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Me again: had to repost just for a correction...and just my weird need to have the record straight: our dad remarried 1 year and 8 months after our mom died. That's a long way from 6 mos.to a year.
Anyway...bigsis

>silly grin< <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Please tell your wife, "You're welcome", from me. (thin mints are best frozen)

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

2long said: "All throughout the conversation, my character was dragged all over by her. She can't trust me (meaning, I was withdrawn before, why would that change), and even though she acknowledged the changes I've been making, basically believes it's too little too late."

Hmm... This is only me... Only my most recent (very ambivalent) attitude... If it were me responding to this myself, I'd be saying, "Well honey, if I'm so bad, why are you still hanging on, still here, still willing to argue, fight your fight, and so on? You know what's possible, you know what I'm capable of, I've spent my time in hell for all the wrongs, and that's over now. If you feel a need to leave, then you're free to - but I will never compromise myself, never 'share' my mate, never play 'second-best' ever. If you want to define yourself through your choices, that's fine by me... If you're satisfied with where you're heading, the so be it - I wish you well - but understand why I can't be a part of the life of someone I can't respect - which makes me very sad because I did respect you and believe it's possible again, with the right conditions."

Ooh.. Okay, I might paraphrase it to be a little less harsh, but you get my gist - this is the direction I'm slowly heading with my MLC W. Again, just me. BTW, it's making me feel very empowered.

"All throughout the conversation, my character was dragged all over by her. She can't trust me (meaning, I was withdrawn before, why would that change), and even though she acknowledged the changes I've been making, basically believes it's too little too late."

Definetely fog-speak. If truth be told, it's like the pot calling the kettle black.