</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hope4future:
<strong>I know it....I keep getting the urge to get a marshmallow and a stick...BURN BABY BURN!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh dear, and now I have a visual of a tatooed bare <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> jumping through a flaming hoop where someone is holding out a big stick with a marshmallow.... It's just not a pretty sight!! LOL

Shishka2long....NOT the other white meat! I think Spacecase has a good basting BBQ sauce recipe we could use with.... YECH!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Jen:

Well, it was always short for 2longhistory2quit, which is why I came up with it. However, so many people had 'other ideas" as to where '2long' came from, some of them I didn't feel the "need" to clarify <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , that I usually made something else up.

But no, it wasn't about the length of her A, though it could have been.

-2long

Well on that uhhhh.... happy(?) note.... I'm going to go start the grill. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I might just stick to veggies today though..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Later...

C

cerri:

"People's actions don't make sense to us when we don't have the whole story. When we do, it all makes sense. The tough part is getting there."

See? I'm dumb, but I'm not stupid. Now you having me experiencing some doubt about the latter. I have no idea how to do what you suggest, or whether it's useful. It sounds like "get right in the fog with her" or "it's not really fog, you just think it is." Am I just taking this stuff too personally?

"Like your sig line BTW, Tori Amos is a Goddess worshipper ya know ... "

She's also a favorite of my W's. She's also got some serious problems, in my humble opinion. But I like her music, ...at least when I don't feel like my W plays it to attack me personally.

-2long

Boy, that was weird. 2ble post from a page ago???

Bill Gates? Thanks a lot!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-2long

<small>[ May 07, 2003, 04:28 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

In all honesty H never did a Plan B per say. I filed for Dv because I decided I wasn't going back and hubby asked (some 6 months down the road) when I was going to do it. It's a logical next step, yet one I was trying to avoid somehow (that's that foggy, messed up, trying to avoid consequences WS thinking for ya). I know your situation is very complicated and so Plan B doesn't seem like a viable option. So technically speaking we went from fog to Plan D. I'm sure it can have the same effect.

A couple of big problems with Plan D is the expense (we basically paid for a DV, just didn't complete it) and the fact that if it goes through quickly there isn't the time for the wakeup. Since hubby left it all up to me and I drug my feet, we managed to remain married longer than necessary (thank goodness!!). It makes me sick to realize that had it all gone through...we probly wouldn't be married today.

But 2long...you have been in limbo a long long time. And your wifes ideas of marriage are certainly somewhat unique. If she truly TRULY feels that way...you could certainly suffer a long long time by allowing her to continue to drag you along this path...HER path. You certainly do deserve better and there's not going to be a pain free plan for your situation. But as it's been said...anything has to be better than limbo.

h4f:

Interesting! Reminds me of my coworker here, and his story.

30-yr M, 3 great kids. M was "heaven" for the first 10 years, pretty good for the next ten, and hell for the past 10. No A, she just got angrier at him with time (never mind why, it really doesn't matter, because I don't know her story). They hadn't shared the same bedroom for the past 10 years. They'd been going to counselors on and off for the past year or more, and had recently decided to give up and get a DV. But when he told her last weekend that she'd have to file, she changed her mind and wants to work on the M.

Go figure, is all I can think of to say.

I may do something like this, if I can handle the pain of her withdrawl happening again around me. I've already told her that I want a DV because she insists she doesn't want a M and can't give up her friendship, but it may be "useful" for me to tell her that filing for DV is up to her. I live in CA, a no-fault state. We'd have to agree on what to do with our assets, but I remember one of my C's saying that if we come to an amicable agreement on what to do with stuff, we could be DV'd in 6 months or a year.

-2long

Dear Mr. 2L,

Love with detachment. That's all I can say after I have read most of the postings here. I only recently found a new power and confidence in myself in my marital situation. Everyday I choose to stay married and enjoy our life as fully as we can. I no longer take the R for granted or assume that all is for forever. I approach each day anew and prepare for anything and everything with the wisdom of past experience and the newfound serenity of self-confidence I have gained over the last 14 months of pain, sadness, remorse, anger, regret, self-examination, intense introspection and soul searching, life review and assessment, forgiveness, loving again, caring again, becoming more aware, moving forward within myself and in my life, and for all intents and purposes, being reborn again.

Everything I was becoming and am today was &#8220;born&#8221; on this day (see my post
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=023360

Something happened when I blew my gasket and put my foot down and it has made a profound difference in my life and in my married life. I can love my wife for all the world but still have limits to what I am willing to accept in our home and our lives as H & W. I realized that life is full of choices and each decision we make shapes not only the present day but the future as well. In this I realized that it is very possible (as you well know) to love someone deeply but decide not to stay with them because of the life choices that they are making that adversely effect you as an individual and the two of together as a married couple. The detachment came to mind this way: I know who I am and what I want out of my life for myself and for us together. I am willing to work with my spouse towards mutually fulfilling goals, but I am not willing to be all sacrificing and all forgiving and all understanding in an effort to preserve the marriage at all costs. I will gain no special prominence on earth or in the afterlife for purposely suffering and accepting abuse, disrespect, and callous disregard for our life together. My marriage is important to me but not to the point that I ignore or relinquish my core beliefs and principles to the point where I almost no longer have any semblance of my true self. So, a part of me cares that we survive as H & W and another part of me doesn&#8217;t. The part that doesn&#8217;t care is willing to walk-away or let her walk-away if situations come to pass that lead us to that.

My wife has a long history of screaming and threatening to DV (she&#8217;s done it from year 1 to present) and it has been a showstopper, until now. Now, I am willing to &#8220;call her bluff&#8221; if she ever threatens it again. Why stay in a marriage under the duress of constant threat of divorce? That&#8217;s no marriage I want to be in and in my mind it&#8217;s an immature and highly emotional knee-jerk reaction to situations when the going gets really tough. I have a calmness and centeredness about me that I think she can sense and she now avoids pushing my buttons. Actually, I have taken away the &#8220;buttons&#8221;. That&#8217;s where the detachment comes in. I have read here so many times that love is not solely an emotion, that mature love is the constant growth of two people who care for and respect each other. I feel like I have moved from &#8220;I need you&#8221; to &#8220;I want you&#8221;. Therein lies the power of choosing. I don&#8217;t &#8220;need&#8221; my W to live my life fully and successfully, I can do that on my own or with another if I so desire, but because I love my W I &#8220;want&#8221; to be with her and share life&#8217;s many experiences. I choose to stay daily.

Many times I found that I relax more and more if I decide not to decide. Whenever I pressure myself into making any kind of life-altering decision (such as, if things aren&#8217;t so and so by such and such a date, I&#8217;m outta here) I completely lose my balance. I can&#8217;t set firm dated expectations and feel good about taking actions based on that alone. I may get pissed-off and start to think like I want out of everything but I know that feeling will pass. I now have to look at progress, however incremental it may be, and as long as I see that positive changes are taking place and we are advancing and improving our life together, I accept that. Yes, there will be little setbacks here and there, but as long as we get back on track, I&#8217;m okay with that. In otherwords, we don't have to be on the same page all the time just as long as I know that we are at least working off the same book!

2L, it sounds like you and are similar. I &#8220;take it&#8221; and she &#8220;dishes it out&#8221; most of the time. It is a rare moment when I get riled-up to the point that I make firm and very vocal stand. My wife is/was a &#8220;rage-aholic&#8221;, though she has mellowed out over the years. It seemed as though she couldn&#8217;t deal with anything without losing her temper, no matter how minor the issue or incident was. I thought I had married a maniac! But, she can be so damn sweet and loving too!

Anyway, only 2L knows for sure what feels best inside of himself and what the proper course of action is at any given moment in time. I can only say this to you from my own observations and experiences and realizations in my own life. You must take care of yourself first and foremost. Don&#8217;t lose respect for yourself. Honor yourself and who you are as a person apart from your spouse. If you feel that allowing your WW all the time and space she needs to figure this out while you remain married still allows you to respect yourself and in turn gains respect from her to you, than by all means stay the course. In the analogy of drawing lines in the sand that I have used with you before, what respect will be gained, or how serious will you be taken, if the line is constantly redrawn? And is it at the point now where you are slowly getting steamrollered but in your continued pain you are still drawing lines, but now they are lines on your own person, not in the sand. &#8220;Okay, so you crushed me up to my knees, but don&#8217;t you dare crush me any further!&#8221; Response: &#8220;Whatever!&#8221; Am I making any kind of a good point here?

You are right about the type of input and response you receive from MB because we are made up mostly of victims and come from that point of view, but really, we are all here to support each other, so when you set the tone of the topic with an &#8220;I&#8217;ve had it!&#8221; attitude, and taking into consideration the length of time you have put into this and the pain and disappointment you have suffered over and over again, is it really hard to understand most of us jumping on that &#8220;Off with her head!&#8221; bandwagon? How about this as a lead-in for your posts: &#8220;WARNING: This is only a vent. If it had been an actual emergency you would have been instructed to tune-in to your local Divorcing BB for further information and instructions.&#8221; ;-)

Bottom line. If the M is salvageable in your mind then go for it and best of luck to you. Just don&#8217;t lose all dignity, self-respect, and sense of self in the process. She&#8217;s not looking out for your best interests or your emotional well being, so you have to. In my own mind, until there are clear and present boundaries with clear and present consequences, no real end is in sight. Do not make idle threats. You should be clear within yourself what your ultimate level of unacceptable behaviors is and stick to that. Don&#8217;t Talk the Talk if you know that you are not actually going to Walk the Walk along with it. I told my wife years ago I would never threaten divorce. I told her that the day I actually speak of divorce is the day when I know I am damn well good and ready to actually go through with it. Do the same. Only set limits that you are willing to enforce. Yes, you will seem like a callous assh*le for actually enforcing the limits, but no more than how an irrational and rebellious teenager would see you when you exercise your parental controls upon them. It&#8217;s not only for own good, it&#8217;s for her own good too. I guess I&#8217;m only trying to tell you not to throw yourself into the shredder while you are trying to save a marriage that obviously only you seem to care so much about or see the worth in.

Hope to see you once again in a fruitful and active recovery.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ May 09, 2003, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: Blind Sided ]</small>

Blind-sided

THAT was gorgeous!

What an impressive writer you are.

Pep

2long,

I did not read all of the updates, but I just read something about the strong desire to 'Do Something'!!! at times, and the issue of letting go.

I have this issue, totally.

I have 8 yrs of college and may be going back for more, very probable. A masters and a yr towards law, and a double major undergrad.... good schools too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My wh has 4-5 yrs of undergrad with no degree, although he has worked in professional fields and achieved fairly high levels of professionalism... problem with him sometimes, WH loses focus and does not perservere.

I found perserverence, an interesting concept this week as I applied again to a law school... the ability to finish, follow through, and press on, were mentioned on the app. as highly desired by applicants.

Anyway- in talks, counseling, etc.- my WH is tired of me asking what he plans to do, and what he wants, or is going to do etc. His words,
I do not want to talk about life plans.

WHy doesn't he want to talk? I dunno. Part of it is, he doesn't have a life plan with or without me. He is spontaneous. He is a musician, artistic - and sees order, plans, etc. as holding him back. When we married, I was very attracted to his wild spur of the moment-ness, and we had loads of fun.

Now, we have difference. I want a plan. I consider it a simple thing. Decide what you want, identify what you have to do to get there. Do the steps required to achieve end goal.

WS, doesn't know what he wants.

Anyway, it is interesting that you too, as a high achiever, find it compelling to do something about your life! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I don't really know about your wife, sounds like she too is pretty smart. My wh has brains too, I just wonder if they are alien infected?

Anyway, food for thought. I noticed it as a real difference of opinion btwn ws and me.

I am trying my best to focus the energy I have spent obsessing on the marriage and him/the relationship, etc.- to more positive achievments and areas of neglect in my life... due to this very unbalanced focus.

I am making baby steps, and it looks like you are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have started to focus so much better at work and on my life. I do get off focus when I come home for me time, and veg too much, etc.... but I am able to regain concentration and Decide to take courses of action best suited for me in this situation.

Hugs, and Hope to you. I believe that you and your W have a strong chance of making it.

Honey

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hope4future:
<strong>Shishka2long....NOT the other white meat! I think Spacecase has a good basting BBQ sauce recipe we could use with.... YECH!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, you guys are getting pretty gross here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , there's NO way we're putting PeTe's Gourmet-Exclusive-Ultimate BBQ sauce on a 2L's flaming, tatooed, rear-end! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> and g-d forbid it should be used on a marshmallow!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

On a serious note, 2L; read, re-read, and re-re-re-read Blind-Sided's post. Now go back and read it again.
No, no, no....you can't move forward yet, it's not your turn again until you read Blind-Sided's post again.

Ready?

Cool! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I believe you have heard every thought and almost every word spoken there from me before, right? (close enough, ok?)

Blind-Sided's absolutely right, and he has the sequence perfectly. Now in my case, you know the next few steps...nothing changed, no semblance of change, or even an expressed desire for working towards it, right? So I'm divorcing. But that's me and my circumstances.

Regardless of that, it is from exactly that position, (and this is not a position intellectually, it's a REAL, felt, internalized and calm position), that one can make rational and healthy decisions about the relationship and one's life. THAT is exactly the position I made my divorce decision from; no more, no less. And it is from that exact position that you should make ANY and ALL decisions related to your life, and your marriage. That was the meaning of my relax, breathe, wait, message.

Hats off to Blind-Sided for the very eloquent description. This should be required reading for all BSs.

<small>[ May 07, 2003, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
cerri:

"People's actions don't make sense to us when we don't have the whole story. When we do, it all makes sense. The tough part is getting there."

See? I'm dumb, but I'm not stupid. Now you having me experiencing some doubt about the latter. I have no idea how to do what you suggest, or whether it's useful. It sounds like "get right in the fog with her" or "it's not really fog, you just think it is." Am I just taking this stuff too personally?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Mmmmm...... I'm sorry... it really has been a communicationally challenged week for me. The statement wasn't meant as a directive for you to do anything. But as a statement that although her actions, choices, confusion etc. make no sense to you at times.... they do to her in the moment that she experiences them.

I think you said something about bashing her confusion.... which I took as a statement of really not understanding how or what she could be confused about. And I wanted to say that although it doesn't make sense to you that she would be confused.... it makes all the sense to her. Because only she has all the information about what goes on in her heart and head.

Hm. Probably just exponentially increased the confusion factor myself. I think I'm having a low biorhythm week... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Sorry for the Confusion....

C

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 08:14 AM: Message edited by: cerri ]</small>

cerri:

No confusion. That made perfect sense.

-2long

Blind:

You know? Your post really hit home this time. I say "this time" because though you've been very eloquent with me in the past, I always carried this "knowledge" inside that our sitches are SO different, that at some level your advice wouldn't seem applicable to my situation. Well, then there's now. So much of the realization that it IS applicable, and so were all the previous such posts, couldn't come until last night, as I was "calming down" from yesteray's events (which included a venomous attack from my W after I got home and before we went to dinner to celebrate mothers' day!!).

I had started to realize as I was heading home yesterday, that so long as I hold onto this "gotta do something" or "gotta react and call bull$hit" to something she's saying or doing, I'm going to make myself crazy. Instead of being able to focus on work and be more productive there, as well as be LESS contributive to the destructiveness at home, I was very much headed in the opposite direction. "What you resist, persists!" SC, you know how I hate generalizations? Well, I really hate generalizations that are right! Damn, I hate them!!! LOL!

My ability to calm myself improved dramatically as I started reading Ekhart Tolle's "The Power of Now" as my W was falling asleep. What a fascinating book! What I found interesting is that I have unknowingly done many of the things he describes in the first chapter, but probably not recently. I've talked about these "events" with you before. Most were when I was little - an ability to tune out my racing thoughts and just experience the world around me. I think the first time I did that must have been when I was very young, like 4 or 5 years old. Probably one of my earliest memories. And, while reading the chapter, I tried to remember other similar instances, particularly in the not-so-distant past. And there are a few, but the increased pace of life and the overburden of worries has made me tend to forget them or trivialize them.

One I remember well, in spite of all the worries of the years mounting between then and now, I experienced probably during the summer of 1966 or 67. We were on a family vacation in Yosemite, and had taken a day picnic drive to Hetch Hetchy reservoir. Nothing particularly special about the day, though it was a beautiful sunny and warm day. I think we were walking along the lakeshore, and I had let the rest of the family get ahead of me for a few minutes while we were walking. The sun felt good, there was a gentle breeze blowing, I could hear the distant sound of an airplane flying over. I remember an intense sense of peace, and feeling acutely aware of everything going on around me - birds chirping, sunlight reflecting off the water. It was so beautiful. So amazing. I didn't realize that I was "turning off" my thoughts, and just experiencing the moment. I do remember feeling the sensation drifting away after a few minutes, and wishing I could hold onto it. Little did I realize at the time (and similar times since) that my "thinking" returning was what ended the experience. Looking back, it was exactly like Tolle describes:

"It is not a trancelike state. Not at all. There is no loss of consciousness here. The opposite is the case. If the price of peace were a lowering of your consciousness, and the price of stillness a lack of vitality and alertness, then they would not be worth having. In this state of inner connectedness, you are much more alert, more awake than in the mind-identified state. You are fully present...
...As you go more deeply into this realm of no-mind, as it is sometimes called in the East, you realize the state of pure consciousness. In that state, you feel your own presence with such intensity and such joy that all thinking, all emotions, your physical body, as well as the whole external world become relatively insignificant in comparison to it."

Hm... Am I getting off-topic here? Good! The original topic "pulled a good vaccuum" anyway!

The downside to all this reading is that SC and others keep pointing out fascinating books like this for me to read!!! I need to suspend time in oder to get through them all! ...but maybe that's what I'll learn how to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-2long

<small>[ May 08, 2003, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

This morning, one of our local TV news stations had a guest Playboy Bunny, outfit and all, give the weather report! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It was titilating, but I don't remember what the forcast was! I hope it don't rain, because I left my bumbershoot in the car!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> 2long

2L

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I remember an intense sense of peace, and feeling acutely aware of everything going on around me - birds chirping, sunlight reflecting off the water. It was so beautiful. So amazing. I didn't realize that I was "turning off" my thoughts, and just experiencing the moment.

"It is not a trancelike state. Not at all. There is no loss of consciousness here. The opposite is the case. If the price of peace were a lowering of your consciousness, and the price of stillness a lack of vitality and alertness, then they would not be worth having. In this state of inner connectedness, you are much more alert, more awake than in the mind-identified state. You are fully present...
...As you go more deeply into this realm of no-mind, as it is sometimes called in the East, you realize the state of pure consciousness. In that state, you feel your own presence with such intensity and such joy that all thinking, all emotions, your physical body, as well as the whole external world become relatively insignificant in comparison to it."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sounds like you got a hold of the same great hash I did!!

Just kidding! (Not) No, really, I understand that frame of mind completely. The more and more you live in and experience the ever present "now" the more fully you will be aware of all that is both within you and around you, which will lead you to more fully enjoy all that life has to offer.

Actually, you are describing a more advanced and highly attuned form of "compartmentalization" which is the ability to keep things separate in your mind and emotions. In much the same way that a really cheap radio tuner allows adjacent channels to bleed though and overlap each other, our undisciplined minds do the same thing with all of our thoughts, feelings and experiences, which ultimately ruins the fullest enjoyment we could extract from each and every day, and each and every moment within those days. It is a unique state of mind. By Selective Fine Tuning you will intensify your awareness and experience in life.

You probably could tell from my postings of the past that I am a very philosophical person. I have been a "thinker" from childhood. I have explored psychology, philosophy, and theology all of my life, hence it gives me a certain bent in my approach to everything in life.

There are many paths to the top of the mountain and each of us walks our own in our own good time. I honor where you are in your path to the top of the mountain of your own personal growth. As always, my thoughts and support are with you. Your friend, Blind Sided
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hm...
I'm looking back at the past few days of this thread and realizing... ...I opened this thread with this subject precisely because I felt the way Blind Sided describes in his post above.

I was calm, until I felt that my friends were giving me off-the-mark advice. It was radical honesty from their point of view, which was good. But it hit me wrong. I reacted to it, rather than reponding to it.

But that's not my point here. When I look at what's transpired recently, how long this has all taken, the fact that I tend NOT to express my feelings enough to my W (don't like rocking the boat), and what the prospects are depending on the choices we both make... ...and I still believe that plan B or DV are on my horizon. I don't know how many times I should have to state my limits before the point is taken, versus I'm perceived as "bluffing." I'm not bluffing. This "arrangement" is unacceptable.

Blind: It seems to me that the difference between yours, and SC's and my sitches is that your W is no longer in contact with her OM? If that were the case over here, I can tell you absolutely certainly that I would have a "relatively easy time" living a day at a time. The biggest threat, or rather obstacle to our being able to live a day at a time would be completely gone.

It's hard for both of us to be radically honest about our feelings all the time, when a third party is involved at the same level of intimacy. See? My W can tell me everything that's said between her and RM (she seldom does, though) and even THAT doesn't honestly convey the depth of FEELING they have for each other. Knowing that she will always care for him like she does for me (her words) does little to help me overcome the elephant.

And so, MB and many (most?) marriage oriented professionals insist that rebuiling is impossible until NC is achieved.

In my case, it's actually even clearer than that, in a way. My W continues to tell me that she doesn't want to be M'd, never wanted to get M'd, and NC is "non-negotiable". Which is why, last friday, I clearly told her that both of those things are beyond my boundaries. I want to be M'd, to her if possible, without a third party involved. If she wants that life, then I want her to be happy with it. But I won't play this stupid game anymore. I'm sure what she's telling me when she says she's still here so that means she loves me is that she'd like to have us both, and that it should be okay with me because she's not sleeping with RM anymore - they're just friends.

I don't need to push her off the fence, but I shouldn't have to wait for it to rot out from under her either. She does need to choose, and grieve the lost alternatives.

Am I still unclear??
-2long.

2L,

IKWUM.

-AD