Bump

HI MM, I need some input, no responses last few days.
Sent letters a couple of weeks back(posted on your thread regarding WH's feedback)
I need to make the most of this weeks visit(If it indeed materializes)
Could use some suggestions and encouragement.
Thanks!

Hey Learnin...sorry to delay here, but things are always crazy in my life, it seems.

Well, if your husband shows up next week (and that is a BIG IF), I think you have an opportunity here. In my opinion, next week should be Plan A. Period. let husband get comfortable in his homelife, with the kids, with you, etc. No LBs...no relationship talk, unless he brings it up. If he does want to talk about D or anything like that, steer out of it ot something else. Make the week something that he will take back and miss.

I am sure the OW is going crazy that he is spending a week with you! the OM was constantly pissed off when my wife would come over to see the kids or would call and talk to me. So, this trip will be a MAJOR Lb on his part with her. and I am sure, her reaction to all of this wil not be very appealing to him. That is why you have to come out of this smelling like a rose. Stay clear of landmines. Dont kiss his butt! Just make the week about showing him what things would be like if he would just re-insert his brain.

After this week though, if something major does not happen (like him not going back to OW), then I would say go immediately to Plan B. Send the letter the day after he leaves, and then go dark. Re-read some of the stuff I have put on marathonman's thread (and some others there) concerning this. I am a firm believer that plan A cannot work without Plan B. Set him up this week with what he will be missing. Then, when he leaves, completely take it away from him. When he show back up with OW, and she starts being herself, he will want to talk to you. But guess what? He cant! He then gets the Plan B letter and now realizes "I am losing everything." And he looks across the room at OW and says "and this is what I am getting."

Plan B is not giving up. You are not at Plan D yet. But considering what I have read here, your husband has given you a great opportunity to make this issue start moving again. this is a VERY BIG mistake by OW. Unless she behaves herself and doesnt LB him, you will end up being the most appealing one in this mess. Remember, he has many years with you. I dare say many of them are fond memories. When he spends a week in memory lane, and then goes back to his unemployed life, with the OW mad for his visit and his wife now in Plan B, things will get very hot for him. As I have said before, during Plan B...it gets VERY quiet in the fog.

So, start getting your plan together for the week. Be ready for him to attack. You just let it bounce off and keep Plan Aing. Then, when he leaves, sit down, write your Plan B letter, put it on here to be vetted, and then send it. Then go dark.

I have a feeling that once that happens, within 4-6 weeks, you may see a tremendous change

In His arms.

Thank you so much for your reply!!
I know that you have your hands full with your own M & Recovery. I wish you the best with that.

I know that Plan B is the most logical next step and I have felt close to that for some time.

But it is very scary to take that next step, especially since I have had little opportunity to Plan A effictively, and have LB'd on many an occasion...

I still feel that WH is probably really enjoying his fun loving OW and bachelor life, and that Plan B is just what he's been asking for, and one step closer to the D that he wants. I can't help but feel that it is risky but then my head tells me that it makes sense.

I will try to get myself in the right frame of mind to follow through.

July 4th is our traditional trip to WH's hometown, lots of fun stuff, homecoming week, lots of old friends in town, the kids have a ball. I'm still going, his family have already told me I should still come with the kids and that we have a place to stay. I was hoping that he would end up going too. "Old friends" that we see there I can imagine giving him the cold shoulder, many already know and are upset with him. I wonder if it will be better to be in Plan
B at that time, or if I should use it as a last chance opportunity to Plan A?

Just things I think about and will continue to weigh pros and cons.

Learnin,

I know Plan B is scary. I know! But, as you weigh the pros and cons, ask yourself some questions. Is what you are doing working? Where is it things are headed now? Are you really going to have anymore opportunities to Plan A, or are you going to increasingly LB?

What's the worse thing that can happen in Plan B? That your spouse leaves you? Come on...that's already happened! You have a history with your WS. Trust that. For your own sanity, by what you have told us here, it appears that you are a prime candidate for Plan B. I cannot see anymore use for Plan A beyond what we discussed above.

Persanally, I think the July 4th thing would be a great time to be in Plan B. Why? Okay...your husband comes home for a week next week and you Plan A him. He takes that back to his NEW life. Then, if he shows up at the July 4th deal and you are in Plan B, several things will happen. The people there will be wary of him as you said above. He will not have you to talk to or be with like in the past. AND...he will see you and the kids having a good time WITHOUT HIM! If he doesnt come, believe me when I say that he will hear that you went. That alone will cause him to feel pangs because he missed out on something that is a part of him (the July 4th deal). And some there will probably let him know how great you looked, and how much fun you had.

I think this is a golden opportunity to force him off the fence. But, as Steve Harley told me...there are no guarantees. You may push him off the fence, away from you forever. But, if that happens, it was probably going to happen anyway. You just saved yourself more time of pain and loneliness. But, as in the majority of cases (like mine!), after even a moderately good Plan A, a robust Plan B is usually followed with a WS who is in pain...andthen comes looking for answers.

In His arms.

Thanks MM!
I appreciate your support and encouragement!

4th of July in his sleepy little NE seacoast town, is a BIG deal. He will surely know he's missed out if he doesn't go and will definately hear that we were there anyways!
I have always had July(after the 4th) as my deadline for Plan A, in the back of my mind, but was afraid to verbalize & commit to it.
But I am going to seriously consider going to B sooner, as you make some good points.
Thanks, again!

It makes me cry when I realize how our little ones process what is happening to their lives.

At daycare yesterday, 4 yr. old D said to provider, "my daddy doesn't want to be married to my mommy anymore, he lives in Boston. He doesn't want a family anymore"

Obviously WH doesn't want "our" family anymore but that has never been verbalized to her. Children can be so perceptive and despite our attempts to assure them that the situation has nothing to do with our love for them, they still seem to feel it as a rejection.

And to think that WH thinks life will go on for our kids with little to no major effects. Such fog, such selfishness, such cruelty. I wonder if he will ever realize the extent to which he has hurt all of us.

Hi , wanted to stop in and say hi , thinking of you and see that the VETS here ahve kicked in to gear. MM gives some great advice .

I truely know that PLAN B must be very hard , but from past experiance , he is out and now the only thing is to stay as busy as possiable to not CALL HIM !!!!!!!!!

Every time you want to call some one else , In your situation everyone knows about A , so use these people for the HOT LINE .

Every time you reach for the phone call someone else to chat and NOT about him all the time .Listen to there life problems . stay on the phone as long as you can , get caller ID so if WS calls while your on the line , you don't pick up .

when you get pissed at him write a letter on the PC then delete it , weird but does wonders for me .

Think about your PLAN B , he is already out , thats half the battle . If he knows he can here your voice and get a riase out of you he will continue to still blame blame blame .

THIS OW is she D yet? Is she living with H?

Hi 3!
Don't know if OW's D is final yet. Don't want to ask because I don't want to seem like I care and I don't.
Been checking into your threads. Plan B is hard to implement, but I know it's just about time.
Anxious to see what WH's 1st visit in 6 weeks will be like. I'm sure no big changes so I just need to be ready for it.
I'm getting stronger every day and I know that I can do it. It's taking that 1st step that is always the hardest...

I am so worked up already over WH's expected visit tomorrow. He will be here for several days at least.
I have already made mistake #1 and got into relationship talk on the phone. And I know that he already knows how I feel, why do I think that this time he will get it!
I'm not sure I can do this visit without LBing and talking R.
I just wish he were coming because he missed me too, I miss him so much, I just want to be held and comforted and told everything will be ok! But that's not going to happen and probably never will.
Tonight he said that things were beyond the fixit stage, that he's been seeing someone for 8 mos. for god's sake, that we would only be miserable if we got back together.
I said it would take some time, but that we always got along before and that we could work at having a different and better marriage. He said we'd talk when he got here,but I know he just wanted to end the talk then.
I can't help myself, I always want to get into it. I think Plan B will be the only way for me to go after this visit. I have no control over my mouth and emotions when I am near him. I want it sooo bad!! I know I look desperate.
I have better control when there is less contact.

Wish me luck. I will try to make this a visit that will leave him missing all of us when he leaves.

Hi , and calm down , you know he spends long periods of time not seeing his kids then he comes and most of the time stays over .

NOT getting hopes up , but maybe just maybe that does have something to do with missing you to .

I mean if he is all ok with OW and is 100% in moving on then HE!! WHY not just pick kids up with OW ? why would he care about offending you ?
IF he is 100% for D then he would want his OW around his kids they are apart of his life they are his to , he don't need your permission .

DO you see what I am saying .?

You need to relax , and be just you , be ok , not needy , desparate to get him back .

STOP the R talk , if he wants a D he will get one , nothing anyone says would change that .

When my WS was gone , he says the thing with the kids was a way for him to know , and thought that I would always know in the back of my head that he would be back .

I never saw it like that , I figured It was about him not having them ruin his "FUN " time with OW .

BUT you know this made OW LB and still does . After awhile OW sits there and says why aren't your kids part of our life? and how come your not D?

YOU know the excuse of money for D only last so long for the WS to OW .And the wicked wife thing that they say gets played to cause the OW will start to say why does W still control what you do with kids or when and who they can be around .?

Leave him with a real good thought this visit . HE will not talk R talk , HE will wait for you to do it he will Avoid it to push your buttons .

AND I bet if you don't bring any of it up , he will at the end of the visit try to cause he wants that fight he knows you will give him .

DON"T give it to him this time . AVOID AVOID AVOID !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If they can AVOID so can BS ,

And if you are going to go to PLAN B after this visit then no R talk is the perfect thing , a good last visit to have on his mind , before you go N/C with him .

Oh HE!! get someone to call your cell anomaously (no # to show ) then talk brief in another room , things like oh tonight maybe I will get back to you later nows not a good time . then wait about an hour and say you need to go to store for milk or something and let him see ya put your phone in your bag .

If he asks who on the phone say sally new girl at work or something wanted to know if I want to go for drink .

If he acts like oh go , say I may I just don't know if I have anything to wear .

Anything , maybe not time to get him jealous I don't know just throwing things at you . Food for thought .

BUT what ever you do do not talk R , OW , or LB in any way , do not totaly serve him either .

LET us know what happens , and look good darling always look your best , smell the best and house taken care of .

I do look good, well the best I've looked in years anyways!
And my house always looks good, and the yard & gardens, at their best this time of year! It takes me almost 4 hrs. to mow with a push mower and it's freshly done. I've also been working on a large weedy,rocky area, to plant grass and it's looking great, part of it is new grass already!
I work hard around here, always have, just not appreciated!
Hey, did I mention that I'm taking a workshop for women next week on "intro to basic power tools"!!
I figure he!!, if I need something done around here I'm gonna have to do it myself and the power tool thing has been the only thing I've never tackled.(But I'm scared to death!)
Ok, I'm gonna get a good nights sleep so I'm fresh as a freakin daisy for you know who.
You know the [censored] doesn't deserve me!!
How's that for attitude!!?
UGGH! I can't believe that I'm six months into this nightmare and I'm still alive to tell the tale! And what a tale it is!!....

YOU go girl , and thats great about the work shop good for you , don't let him in on that yet , or maybe leave some paper work around about it .

THE power tool thing will , just pretend its the batiery operated one LOL

OK had to go there , OF corse your around to tell about it , BS are made of iron we will not be defeated we get stroner in time .

Ok so I am in a lol mood .

GOOD luck !

I'm very teary this morning but not because it's a bad thing. It went VERY well yesterday although nothing earth shattering. This has been the first time in a long time that WH seems like H. No attitude, no smugness, no
anger, although just some frustration and nervousness about finances. He's
gonna make some calls to lawyers about bankruptcy today, we talked about that some yesterday. He came with me to get D at daycare, she was
thrilled to see him.
He gave me some money to pick up something for supper(fridge is literally empty, except for eggs, milk, butter & lettuce!). He grilled while I planted some seeds, he played catch with youngest S, very personable and talkative. Later, he watched games on tv with the boys, I read, he helped D set up her dollhouse and then we all went to bed except for him. I laid awake for almost an hour and then went downstairs, he was laying on the couch. I said this is killing me, having you here like this and I can't be
near you. Anyways, it ended up, I sat next to him on the couch and we talked for a long while, he said things like, I don't know why you'd want
me, I'm a balding fat guy on the verge of bankruptcy(good point!!) and I've got to work this out myself, it had nothing to do with anything you did, and that he didn't think it could really work out for us because of what he's
done, and what's the success rate for couples getting back together,do I know from all those books I've read?, and then he mentioned OW & the fact that he's met most of her family, etc.
Anyways I cried some, tried to put the move on him,(I know pretty lame) but he resisted (kept his hands up under his head while he was laying down) and said it would only make things worse, told me to get some sleep,but I think he wanted to. I of course went upstairs feeling rejected (even though I knew the risk) and balled my eyes out for a little while. I went back downstairs and said I'm sorry, I didn't want this visit to be about pressuring you, and he was being
nice, said, come on don't be so hard on yourself, we weren't fighting and that's a good thing. I said, yeah but I humiliated myself and he said, no
you didn't Learnin, you love me and that's where your're coming from and then he put his arms out and said come here and hug me. And he hugged me and held me real tight for a few minutes, it felt sooo good, I could have stayed like that forever and then insisted I get some sleep or I'd have
a miserable day at work.
So I did finally get some sleep. He & D drove me to work this morning so he could have the car, and again I apologized and he said we're not
fighting so it's ok.
Overall, things are going real well, I'm gonna try to back off the rest of the visit. And prepare myself to write the Plan B letter when he leaves, and just go dark on him like Mortarman advised. I can't go on like this forever, he needs to make a decision and if I cut off contact after such a good visit, maybe it'll
have more impact than if I did it while we were fighting.
Right now I'm just happy to see the old H and know that he's still capable of being himself. I have a better chance with that.
I feel good but sad, hopeful but realistic.

Bump, looking for feedback, cuz it's one of those days!!

WH called me at work to tell me that he has made an appt. w/ Bankruptcy lawyer for us next tues.
He will leave tomorrow afternoon, and return tues for the appt. and stay till thurs. to return his leased car.
I wonder if his being so recognizable as a human being again is just a ploy so that I will be agreeeable to the Bankruptcy(which I see as our only option at this point)
I'm pretty worked up. Last night was the first time he has touched(the hug) me in months! I want more!!!
I need to back off!
I need to look long term goals!
Help!
I'm a mess.

Learnin,

Sorry I havent posted...been out for a few days. Sounds like things are going well. Keep up the Plan A! I warned you that it would hurt for awhile, and when he leaves, it will hurt even more. But this is the last time, right?

After this, should he go back to his new life, then you go dark...Plan B. He will remember and miss what he got this week...what he is losing. He will be the one that will have increased pain with the OW. You will have couple of weeks of missing him and hurting, but then it will calm down.

Finish out this week, let him know that you two do have a future if he will just commit back to the marriage. And then let him go, if he wants. Once he goes, write your Plan B letter, post it here for everyone to review, and then send it to him. Then, no more unnecessary contact! It will only help him, and hurt you.

Many of the thingsh e just said to you were things my wife said prior to coming home. "Why do you want me?" "We cant get past the things we have done." Blah, blah, blah. Now, we are working on it.

By doing a good Plan A this week, you are showing him one last time what he could have. Then, starting next week, he loses it all until he decides to give up his new life.

In His arms.

WH is leaving today when I get home, he has D again today because daycare is closed. He's taking his car back from S and coming back on monday to see youngest S's rescheduled game from rainout last night, going to Bankruptcy lawyer on tues. and staying I guess till thurs.
I'm planning to go down to his area Sunday, to take the kids to Zoo and he said to call him.
I invited him along June 20th for an overnight hiking trip to w/S & friend & friends parents. S goes every year, big trip. He said this morning, it sounds like fun, but I don't know, I'll let you know.
We went out last night to the mall to get D sneakers and then for an ice cream.
There was a half colored coloring book on the counter when I got in from work. I said (knowing all along that it prob. came from OW's D), where did this come from? Oh, he says, D's "friend" sent it for her, but you can just throw it out if you want. Which I did!! I'm just surprised that he said that and didn't say something more like "what's the big deal".
I'm persistent in the intimacy attempts, enjoy rejection I guess. Early evening I tried just to get close, we ended up talking and then I got a
little pissy. He said, see, why do you this, and I said well it does hurt alot to want you so much and then know that you don't want me.
Around 4am I heard him go to bed in D's room(she sleeps with me), he fell asleep on couch. I went in. He was Definately responding "physically" anyways, but still resisted(oh, so know he knows how to resist temptation now, idiot), but he started to respond and then he backed off.
He claims I just want it so I can e-mail OW or her H or write or call OW and tell her. I got pissed. He still insists that i'm intouch w/ OW's H. Says OW' H always knows when he's up visiting. Well it's not me!!
I said why is it that I'm portrayed as the bittter ***** lunatic when I'm "suspected" of trying to break up your "relationship" but she broke up my marriage & family and she's "a nice person". How bent is that logic? I know FOG.
He did say "sleeping together wouldn't change anything",(I know that) "but that's not to
say it never will change."(HUH?) "that it won't make me happy" I said, no, I'd be happy if you told me you were coming home and pulled up with a u-haul. He laughed and said you'll know when the CD's start reappearing on the shelf. (HUH??)
He talked about missing the kids alot, wishing he could take D with him! IN YOUR DREAMS, i said, you got all the things that were so important
to you at the time, your CD's, your lover, go play with her kids! We didn't really fight but i did get sarcastic at times.
Anyways, despite the physical rejection(and I know I shouldn't have even gone there), I'm not too discouraged. He called me sugar and honey at times, which of course could just be habit. But it's been a long time and I think it definately showed he had his guard down. I even told him that this was the first time in 6 mos. that he seemed more like himself and that I liked it.
I'm still considering Plan B, probably the best time for it.
But I'll see what next week brings, hopefully these visits are making OW "uncomfortable", as WH said!! And get this Bankruptcy crap out of the way.

I expected it but it still hurts.
WH left as soon as I got home from work. And he seemed back to the Fog state, attitude, smug, couldn't get out of here fast enough.
I asked him if he still wanted me to call if I go to the zoo and he said "uh yeah, maybe you can drop kids off for a quick visit but I don't want to go to the zoo." Not how he sounded yesterday.
I'm sure he's probably talked to OW. I'm sure he's probably worried that I'll contact her and tell her that we had some intimate contact no matter that it was minimal.
I can only hope that she is worried and LB's over these visits.
I wonder if he'll lie to her if she asks? He's probably worried that she will ask and how he will answer?
I wonder if he's confused about his feelings about the visit? He seemed to enjoy himself.
Was his attitude change as he was leaving, a frightened, confused,escape?
Should I still be hopefull?
All of these questions and never any answers.
If he would just give me some sign. Or was there anything in this visit that should or shouldn't be considered a sign?
It will take the next few days to level off again and then he'll be back.
Have much to think about and decisions about Plan B to make. So hard to take that step.

WH called today, wasn't expecting him to at all after the way he left so hurriedly yesterday..He had said he'd call monday before he left to come back...
He really didn't have anything important to talk about...I wonder why the call?
I went out tonight with a few friends for a drink and bite to eat...good time.
If weather is good I want to take two youngest to the zoo, which is near where WH lives.
I will call in the morning before I leave to invite him along. I am prepared for a no answer.
His loss.