Welcome Marycat!

OK, T.T.H.O, Matilde, A.M.Martin, learnin, and Marycat:

Let's here it!

What's 'appening?

Are you controlling the LB's? Are you meeting any EN's (without expectinng your own to be met)?

We Need Updates!

Hey, and why are there no guys here (other than me)?

-AD

Day 1 report:
1. Still breathing, so that's good! WH called, nice calm conversation, I did not get sarcastic, angry or emotional. No R talk!
2. Didn't walk, raining at lunch, no time after work.
3. Enjoyed watching S's baseball game, read to D, did not retreat to room before all kids were in bed!
4. Worked on getting new vehicle.
5. Didn't cut down on MB visit while at work, definate addiction..
6. No news on the job front, waiting for a phone call regarding this. Will persue..
7. No new ideas on self-improvement, however feel I deserve and looking forward to meeting some friends tonight for a beverage & few laughs! That will surely improve my outlook on life!

Nothing earth-shattering, baby steps so far, but I am at least aware of what I need to do, and will keep you posted.

One other thing I need to address and I covered in my last post of my thread:
Finding ways to give positive verbal feedback to WH when he does something worthy of it. Sometimes hard for me, as I don't always recognize the positive or feel that it is worthy of recognition. (I don't get a pat on the back for all I do!) Will look for those small things...

Well, A.D., what can I say? H emailed yesterday to say he had deposited "settlement money" (though he's not calling it that) in my account. This was long expected...in fact, he had kind of been dragging his feet.

I prepared an email, polite, friendly, and also asking to "buy back" some of "his" furniture, as I had rescued it from the auction block when his parents died a couple years back. It has no sentimental meaning for him (to him it's just furniture), but I was terribly fond of them. I've sent it to a friend to review for kindness and appropriateness, no triggers.

I have to be pleasant, but cool, or he will retreat. I've done absolutely no LBs for a long while, but then, I have little opportunity.

We may be at the same social function tonight (we live in a small town) -- if so, I may smile and nod from across the room. Maybe even that's unwise...the Black Widow will undoubtedly be there too, with her daughter the Scorpion Lady. They will be guarding their prey, to take him back to the Jungle Kingdom.

Kind of a tepid Plan A, innit? Do you have any ideas?

<small>[ May 09, 2003, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

Hi everyone,
H is working 10 hour days-so he get's home a couple hours after I do - made him salmon - he really likes that and cleaned up some before he got home.
He came in and I gave him a hug - he didn't really return it - I said what's wrong and he said with what - I said nothing - and went about my business. Not a big deal you say - a month ago I would have been bugging him to find out what was wrong, what did I do etc. and it would have escalated into a full blown fight. He was working of fixing our bed - it's old and need some wood replaced and he needed some things at a store around 40 minutes away - came downstairs and said I have to go to Chase Pitkin - I said ok and was still cleaning up the house - right before he left he asked if I was going or what - now I really think I should have stayed home - just said I want to clean up you go ahead - especially with the mood he was in but decided since he asked me I would go. Well we didn't speak once on the way there - he got out to get something to drink - asked me if I wanted anything - I said no thanks I'm set - and then didn't speak on the way home. He came home and did some more things upstairs. I sat with my os and watched tv. I know there was a problem but didn't push - asked him again this am if he was upset and he asked why and I said you have been really quiet and he said can't I be quiet - I said sure and gave him a kiss on the cheek and left for work. Did I do ok????
TTHO

Well done, TTHO. I, too, was a master of the Twenty Questions game to find out what was "wrong." Drove my H nuts. Turns out stuff was "wrong" but he wouldn't tell me -- that's another story. But the pestering didn't help.

This was getting worked out in counseling, but by that time OW was well in the picture. And, of course, she has no problems at all...

A.M. Martin
I thought my h ow was the only one with no problems - at least according to wh - she is perfect you know. So positive etc. Makes me want to puke - know for a fact that she has done this once before and there are rumors of 2 other times - but of course my h says no way. Oh well!
Thanks for the well done - I did fell good about it last night - perstering wasn't the word for what I have done in the past.

WHOOPS! VENTING ABOUT OW! BROKE THE RULES! EDITED IT OUT!

<small>[ May 09, 2003, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

Update / Day 3 - begining of Day 4

Friday was day 3.

I did OK in the morning - getting to work at a good time - after spending most of the night in W's bed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I felt encouraged. It really is a boost when I get some of my EN's met - although I should not expect that or try to get it during Plan A. I felt more trusting of my W.

Lunch time was OK - I brought home some carry out. W appreciated that, but said it was too oily. I'll have to refine the menu when I bring something home.

When I came home, W was not there, so I began to work on the flower beds. I realized that I needed some more peat-moss and set out for HomeDepot at about 7pm. I was beginning to wonder where W was. She usually is home when I arrive and a couple of days in the last week she wasn't. As I drove to the store, I saw her car.

OM was in the car with her - with our 2-year-old in the back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> !!!

W was trying to turn left somewhere so I turned around and drove by her again - followed them into a fast-food parking lot. She pulled into a slot, I stopped behind her car - blocking her in. OM suddenly got out of the car (she says she told him to). I told him "Take a hike, man!" I didn't realize his car was there. So, I caught her dropping him off back at his car. He walked away without a word - stood by his car looking at us - like a dog slinking away from the kitchen after stealing the sausage from the counter.

I didn't touch her. I don't remember what I said - probably asked "why?". Anyway, she said "Please don't hit me" - as if I ever did. Strange. She's still afraid of her Mom - who did hit her - and she projects that fear onto me also. I told her I wasn't going to hit anybody. I looked in the back seat at our child - who was sleeping in the car seat. W told me to move my car. I was blocking the flow of traffic. I got back in my car, backed up to let her out. She drove home. I followed partway - but stopped at the store. I thought it would be better if she had a few minutes at home to collect herself - and maybe to wonder what I was going to do.

When I got home, she was nervously eating something in the kitchen. She is not a big eater - skinny thing, but every once in a while she will eat nervously when she is upset.

I told her that I was sorry that I frightened her - that I didn't want to scare her. I didn't yell at her. I didn't call her names. I didn't say anything sarcastic. I didn't LB!!!

Hurrah for me!

I told her I was on the way to buy something when I saw her car, and asked if she minded if I went back to the store to get it. It was OK. I went. When I got home, W was sort-of withdrawn. I had indended to work on the flower bed in the dark, but decided to spend the time with the 2-y-o instead. We read together, etc. About 9:30 I started giving her her bath. W came in halfway through. I let her take over.

After D was in bed, W came and sat near where I was. She talked a little about the situation. I didn't ask any questions. She said that my response surprised her - and actually made it more painful for her. I asked if she prefered that I yell at her, and she said "no". I let the subject drop. We talked about child-care, discipline, schools etc. W started looking at something on-line. I fell asleep on the floor nearby about midnight. At 2am W, woke me and suggested we go to bed. I went to my bed (alone) and slept.

This morning, she brought D to me at 9am - told me she was up til 4 or 5am - obviously wanted me to take charge of D while she slept more. For a little while, W lay down beside me in my bed - cuddled up. D was on the other side.

It is a strange thing - but I have never been in the center of my marriage. Just that moment, I realized that. Either W or D was in the center. Physically and symbolicly in those few minutes with both of the laying in my bed - my arms around both of them - D on the right - W on the left. It was a nice feeling - and I realized that it would be a wondeful feeling to be the actual center - the leader of my family. Just a thought.

W is still sleeping now - at noon.

I've been up with our child - changed and dressed her, played with her a little.

I want to work outside, but I have to stay in because I don't want to leave the 2-y-o alone while W is sleeping.

Altogether yesterday was disappointing - I myself did OK. That is all I can control.

I want to know at the end of the summer that I have done my best. If W doesn't recommit to the marriage at that time, I will have to decide on my next step. If we divorse after that - OM will have a high standard to meet. I don't think OM has any idea how "high maintenance" my W is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I love her though - and I think she is a very troubled and confused person. She is still adjusting to coming out from under the control of her Mom. It may take her a long time to complete that process. In part OM is a kind of defiance of her Mom - because her Mom wanted her to marry me and ignore him.

I think I am able to cope right now - because a week ago I was ready to divorce - and now I feel a kind of peace and empowerment to choose my path in life. I don't want my daughter to suffer the divorce of her parents. But I know that if it comes to that, I will do my best to be a good Dad - not to sabotage my W's efforts at parenting - and I will be OK. In a way, it seems now that either way I win. If W turns toward me, I win big. If she doesn't, then when the time comes, I will leave with dignity - knowing that I did all I could - and that I am a better man for the experience.

-AD

<small>[ May 10, 2003, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Congratulations AD. You were splendid. Truly.

No contact with H yesterday or today, though I did send two emails yesterday that were friendly, chatty -- nothing that could not have been sent by a neighbor. No response; not expecting any.

Since I'm not in regular contact with H, and only with email -- I might as well work on myself. Have fewer defensive thoughts about H; fewer thoughts still about the Black Widow.

AD, You did wonderfully!
I liked what you said about "OM will have a high standard to meet"!1

That hit a nerve for me. I will remember that. I feel I have been a good wife and mother(not perfect, but pretty darn good!) and OW will have to be awfully good to fill my shoes!!

And you know what, WH is high maintenance also. I did alot of the important stuff for him, he never made the phone calls or did the paper work necessary for things like, loans, insurance, cars, etc. I realize now just how much I do.

OW is used to her H being "controlling" so I imagine he did all that in thier M. How will WH & OW cope now? Time will tell.

Keep up the great work!

Learnin,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by learnin:
<strong>Day 1 report:
1. Still breathing, so that's good! WH called, nice calm conversation, I did not get sarcastic, angry or emotional. No R talk!
5. Didn't cut down on MB visit while at work, definate addiction..
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry to reply now several days later.

I'm glad you were able to keep a bright spirit in your communications with your H. How did it work out over Mothers Day? Do your kids see their Dad on weekends still?

I too have slipped quite a bit about my internet usage - even on MB during work time. I've got to break the internet habit while at work. Maybe I have to think in terms of "Plan-A"ing my boss <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
One other thing I need to address and I covered in my last post of my thread:
Finding ways to give positive verbal feedback to WH when he does something worthy of it. Sometimes hard for me, as I don't always recognize the positive or feel that it is worthy of recognition. (I don't get a pat on the back for all I do!) Will look for those small things...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How's it going with this effort?

Thanks for your kind words on how I handled the situation Friday. I could have done better, and I could easily have done far, far worse. Do you think I should have simply ignored them? Maybe just drive by and wave?

-AD

<small>[ May 12, 2003, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Marykat,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by marykat:
<strong>My husband is military and we're trying to recover our marriage. The next month or two are going to be difficult since he will be away for much of it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is he "over there?"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>It's VERY (sorry for the screaming) hard for me when he's away.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What aspects of it are the most difficult? I'm sorry, I don't know your situation. Do you have kids?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
Lately, I've been doing a lot of whining (okay well deserved but not constructive) now I need to see what putting someone else first can do. I only hope I can see it through and not go back to feeling sorry for myself.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know the feeling. I have found that having a plan (especially a semi-secret plan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) gives me some kind of energy - helps to do what I need to do.

How was your Mothers' Day?

-AD

WH is leaving today - no more Plan A for me on to Plan B - ow showed up yesterday to take herself out of the picture(14 months too late). M h decided to tell her in front of me that he didn't want to be here and nothing I did is going to change his mind - he would give me the summer but not one day more. So I'm thinking it's Plan B time - I'm not making a mistake am I?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by T. T. H. O.:
<strong>I do think it's harder for woman to Plan A - i have always done a lot for my husband.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that some husbands take their wife's daily contributions for granted. When it comes time for Plan B, he'll find out about that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>There are some changes he wants me to make and I tried but the this whole e/a thing came up and the things he asked me to change have seemed impossible - so now for the real challenge - lets see if I can do it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If it's not too personal to ask. What kind of changes?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
I will have fun with it - I have been asking no questions about work - wh still works with ow -I used to ask questions almost everyday.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Great! He'll notice that change - and wonder about it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Have only cried once a little since Sunday - a record for me - </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's good. We've got to get out of the "pity party" mode. Concentrate on other things than what our spouses think about us.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>...have really been trying hard to read his moods and not get hysterical if I think he is ignoring me. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The second part, I agree with, but I don't know if the first is a good idea. Maybe you shouldn't try to read his moods. If we don't want to be affected by our spouse's moods (don't we have enough of our own?), it's just was well that we don't even know what their moods are. Maybe? I don't really know - but I believe it is a good think to not just hang our moods on theirs. I should be able to be happy even at times when my W is not. Otherwise, we are in some kind of death-spiral. What do you think?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> H wants to do something with finances now - I initially thought it was a good idea - don't want to wait in case it gets nasty - not sure now but have told him to do what he needs too. I hope I'm not doing it wrong but have tried to stay calm and rational. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What kind of thing does he want to do with the finances?

I've wondered about this myself in "Plan-A". Do I pull out the stops and do things which are financially irresponsible just to please my W? - when I know we're going to have to pay for it later?

-AD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by A.M.Martin:
<strong>H emailed yesterday to say he had deposited "settlement money" (though he's not calling it that) in my account. This was long expected...in fact, he had kind of been dragging his feet.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What kind of financial arrangements do you have with your H? Are you legally separated?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>
I prepared an email, polite, friendly, and also asking to "buy back" some of "his" furniture...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By this, I suppose you're in OK financial shape. Is the furniture still with you? How did he respond to this? Is he trying to sell all his stuff and start over with new (new W too)?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I've done absolutely no LBs for a long while...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For most people, that's more than half the battle.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>We may be at the same social function tonight (we live in a small town) -- </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How did that go?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>Kind of a tepid Plan A, innit? Do you have any ideas?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmm. It's so hard when you are apart.
Just be available in case he wants to talk - and being patient and understanding when he does.

Does he need anything from you? Does he ask for anything?

-AD

AD
As you can see my marriage is over but I will answer your questions anyway.

The changes he wants me - he says I'm too emotional and use volume to get my point across. Weight is an issue too - but I don't know how to not be emotional about all of this - I could have done better I know and am kicking myself because of it.

He went to the bank and opened his own checking account and move 1/2 of our savings to that. We are sound financially but that will change with this. I am supposed to be getting the other 1/2 today.

Hopefully he will miss what I do for him but right now I don't see that happening.
TTHO

WOW T.T.H.O.!

I'm sorry you had such a shock!

Try to take a little time to let your head clear from this shock before you do anything rash.

Talk to a lawyer about the financial changes. If it's a lot of money, it may be important to act quickly to safegard your future.

If OW is telling him she's done, things are definitely in a mixed up state - and any outcome is possible. <strong>What you do now can have a huge impact.</strong> I don't know what to recommend. It may be time for some professional advice - legal, financial and relational (i.e. marriage counselor).

As for the other issues. I would advise setting aside the weight issue for now. It's a very difficult problem for most people and I think the other issues are more pressing. If your H has complained about you shouting at him etc., that is something you absolutely must fix if you are going to save your marriage. A man will divorce even a great beauty if she is inclined to rage at him. I think this is your #1 issue to deal with. Right now is a great time to show your new colors. If you can deal with the immediate crisis calmly - without rage - it will be noticed. You can be sure of that! Since right now OW is telling him that she's finished with him - your suddenly calm reasonable voice will make not only a strong contrast with your past voice - but with OW's voice. I encourage you to get some specific help with this problem.

Again, I'm sorry for your situation.

-AD

<small>[ May 12, 2003, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

AD,
My emotions reak havoc all the time. Yesterday I was calm the beserk and then calm again - of course h said see that's why I'm not going to miss this. I haven't never done this before and it is terribly hard to keep my emotions under control. I have tried but I guess not hard enough. He'll say nasty things and then expect me to stay calm through all of this. The lst few months I was totally calm - didn't yell or scream - did cry alot and tried to understand why this happened and then when nothing changed I got angry - He told me yesterday in front of the ow that nothing is going to change his mind - nothing. I believe him - he has always been one of the most stubborn people I know. Thanks for the advice though - I will try and stay calm tonight when he gets home. He is supposed to be leaving tonight though and I'm not sure how I will handle that.

TTHO

Oh AD!

I blew it! I blew it! After not even seeing H for ten days, I blew it!

At a social gathering, a friend of mine, visiting from out of town, came up and hugged me very warmly and affectionately. What should happen? Suddenly, within seconds, I hear H's booming voice greeting him ("our" friend really, but mostly mine) with undue enthusiasm. He came over and effectively broke up our interaction. I was flustered, and spoke with someone on the other side of me while H spoke with him.

It was an opportunity, I suppose! I have so few! I could have done something! I'm kicking myself. I did nod and smile briefly when I saw him earlier, but nothing more.

In answer to your question, I'm financially in a serious situation, but not dire. However, his family's stuff means something to me. There's not a whole lot of it, but they were very dear.

No, we are not legally separated. But he seemed anxious to separate money. I saw no point in resisting, especially since his decision-making has not exactly been solomonic and I don't want to be fiscally responsible for whatever weirdness he comes up with. He may have set up a joint account with OW, for all I know.

TTHO,

Here are a couple ideas, but they require discipline.

First, every time you see H you might try to imagine he is a psychiatric patient, which, in an A, he might as well be. You wouldn't scream and shout and cry at a psychiatric patient, would you? You'd EXPECT them to act crazy. You'd be patient, and listen, and be helpful.

Second, if your H is stubborn, it's extremely ill-advised to oppose him in any way. You'll just entrench him in his point of view. Why not agree with everything he says? Agree emphatically! He says you are a b**ch. Say, "Oh, I couldn't agree more!" Etc., etc. Then there is nothing for him to insist on. It makes him look silly to keep hammering at certain things, and gives him space to back down.