<small>[ July 28, 2003, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: AD. ]</small>

<small>[ July 25, 2003, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

OK, back to real life for a for a real update....

I pretty much gave up on whatever I was calling "Plan A". It seemed to be way off track.

What I've been doing lately is kindof an anti-plan-A. Maybe that qualifies as a 180. I'm not intentially LBing, but on the other hand, I'm doing & saying a lot of things that my W doesn't like. It's weird. It seems to pull her closer. I've often said that she's wired backwards.

Friday, she had an exam at the U, and I stayed home to handle our little one - and take care of some stuff I have to do. W went to the U, looked at the exam and refused to take it - said she would accept a zero. Then, she knew that I would be gone with little one, so she didn't want to come home to an empty house and, naturally, went and had her hair cut.

When I got home, I didn't react to either the haircut or the zero exam. I just felt like I am living with a spacelady.

Saturday, she was sitting on the kitchen floor crying (apparently, because I said something insensitive about a health concern of hers), and I just walked out to the garage, mixed some insecticide and started spraying the roses. It felt weird to just walk away from her in that state, but honestly, I was frustrated to the max. I felt that I had tried everything in this kind of situation before and nothing ever had helped. Usually, if W is upset and I try to comfort her, she just becomes more upset. So, I decided that I wasn't going to try. That made her angry, but seemed to get some communication going. I've just been trying to stay away from her lately - and have told her as much (when she asked "are you trying to stay away from me?"). I'm not trying to manipulate her. I just gave up. I figured that we would just let things wind down, sell both houses (old and new) and divorce in a year or so. All I have to do is not get caught up in her "spells", "fits", "episodes", "crises" or whatever you call them. I think she finally heard me. I told her (at least twice) plainly "I don't know what you want and whatever it is, I don't think I have it." That was the plain truth. I simply don't know. I think she understands that she's got to find a less negative approach to me because whatever she's doing is not going to get what she wants out of me (which I don't know what it is), but only drive me away.

But... I sometimes slip and let her control me and then feel foolish, and she starts back into her demands and angry outbursts again.

Sunday, I was working on some papers all day, and in the afternoon, she said she felt abandoned. She was going to the pool. I didn't move to go with her. That seemed to soften her mood toward me. Strange. I didn't do anything with her all weekend (except for unexpected Fri. night SF <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ).

I don't want to be one of those jerko H's who bosses his wife around and does nothing for her - a power freak, but as an alternative to what we have been doing, I would even accept that role. I'm so tired of the way things have been.

I hope we can find a middle ground.

I told W a week or so ago that I didn't want to go on vacation with her - that I didn't think it would be any fun because she would be hostile to me the entire time. This weekend, she suggested a day-trip next Sat. Maybe she's trying to prove that she can be pleasant and reasonable so that she can persuade me to go on a longer trip later. I hope so. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-AD

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm not intentially LBing, but on the other hand, I'm doing & saying a lot of things that my W doesn't like. It's weird. It seems to pull her closer. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is Honesty in her top five needs? Are you controlling love busters? Even if she doesn't like what you say, if you're honest without LB you should earn points.

<small>[ July 29, 2003, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

AD,

Can't please her no matter what right? Driving you crazy?

Try reverse babble. Starts out by agreeing, then make your point. No agrument. Don't be specific nor committed. In fact, push her the other way.

example:

WS: "are you trying to stay away from me?"

BS: yes

WS: why?

BS: it isn't safe.

WS: you think I am not safe?

BS: not sure, are you?

WS: U don't love me?

BS: no sure, do you?

example 2:
AD: I told W a week or so ago that I didn't want to go on vacation with her - that I didn't think it would be any fun because she would be hostile to me the entire time. This weekend, she suggested a day-trip next Sat. Maybe she's trying to prove that she can be pleasant and reasonable so that she can persuade me to go on a longer trip later. I hope so.

Orchid: If you don't feel comfortable, don't go. She needs to realize that your comfort level is important. She is not going to be comfortable no matter what you do so don't do anything. She is going to be mad at you anyway so why waste time, energy and money????

Now, when you pull back, she may become the agressor. Let her.

L.

Orchid,

Thanks for posting.

I have taken note of your "reverse babble" prescription. Actually, it's not babble. It's the truth.

The example dialog you gave is almost exactly to the word what has passed between us. When she asks (amazing that she asks) if I love her (she always makes sure in advance to tell me that she doesn't love me and never did and never will), I just hesitate and say "well...". Truth is, I don't know. I have compassion for her, pity for her, but I don't like her. Sorry. Wish I did.

I think whenever I come to the conclusion that I'm willing to "lose", (and might actually win by losing), she senses it immediately and starts closing the gap. She fears abandonment. I don't want to play on that fear, but when I start to give up, her fear wakes her up.

BTW. She told me recently that OM moved and she doesn't know where he is. She is essentially at NC with OM, but he is still in her thoughts. She checks his email accounts almost every day. I check too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , but the email trail has gone cold. He must have a new email that W & I don't know about. That's a good thing.

-AD

<small>[ July 29, 2003, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: AD. ]</small>

Day whatever-we-are. Feeling bad. Last night I was in a setting where H's name was constantly in the air -- how well he is doing, how brilliant he is, etc. Expressed my grave concerns to a friend -- which was a mistake. One glass of wine was one glass of wine too much. This kind of talk can easily flip against me.

Oh well, I must remember "silence is golden."

H has taken off with OW on a prolonged "vacation," but not before sending me an email to separate our insurance policies, and let me know that college-bound son won't be covered. This is crazy, though I won't say so. That will be my Plan A for today. I'll just quietly pay for him.

A.M,

I'm sorry your H is treating his son badly just because of ??? I dont' know. This is not your son, right? His from a previous marriage? Sorry, I'm confused about that. In any case, since I pay medical insurance for one college student, I know that it's about the cheapest med insurance around and shouldn't be more than $700/year for standard student coverage.

When I was unemployed, medical insurance was over $600/month for the three of us.

It must be very painful to hear how wonderful your WH is - for two reasons, first part of you really things he is wonderful and misses him and 2nd, you know that in some very important respects, he most certainly is not wonderful, and you must occationally your to straiten these folks out about a thing or two.

Sorry for your pain.
It must get better.

-AD

So, I just sent a very sweet email to H, which he probably won't get for a week, saying "Don't worry! I'll make sure son is insured!" Knowing that H couldn't care less. Some chatty family news. More friendly than anything I've sent in months, but nothing OW could read anything into, unless she's working at it.

This is true Plan A, because I'm not feeling friendly or chatty at all. More like an actress, playing a part.

So, I just sent a very sweet email to H, which he probably won't get for a week, saying "Don't worry! I'll make sure son is insured!" Knowing that H couldn't care less. Some chatty family news. More friendly than anything I've sent in months, but nothing OW could read anything into, unless she's working at it.

This is true Plan A, because I'm not feeling friendly or chatty at all. More like an actress, playing a part.

Gloriosky! I kissed my H! In the driveway!

He came over to get some stuff before he left on another trip with OW. First time he came over in months.

I asked if I could help him carry things from the shed. We chatted about household repairs.

As we said goodbye, he lingered awkwardly and I turned to go away. Then, on a second thought, I turned and put my arms around him, and kissed him goodbye. He seemed happy about this -- it was a nice kiss! But nothing that could not have happened between friends.

As I went back into the house, he seemed to want to prolong thing (could be my imagination) we continued conversing as I was walking away.

Well, I guess this is kind of a 180, since I haven't kissed him in 5 months. But did I make a mistake, given this is kind of a B+/A- situation?

He's off for over a month now with OW. It would be an ambitious itinerary for a healthy man, and he's not a healthy man. OW is not a healthy woman, I understand. The whole thing seems like a poor idea, but no one asked for my opinion.

Might send him a cheery email on his travels, as matters come up.

A.M.M,

You continue to amaze me!

Well done! Wow!

-AD

I'm probably making too big a deal of this. Maybe he's just feeling happy with OW, and therefore easier around me, too...

Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe...

All,

The 100 days have passed.

How did I do?

Poorly!

Midway through, the "plan A" just fizzled. I knew it then. I still haven't understood exactly why.

Or maybe it did'nt fizzle. It depends on how you define success.

She now sleeps in the MBR with me every night.

She regularly reaffirms that she doesn't want a divorce.

OM seems to be fading from the picture. W and OM certainly are not in any regular contact.

So, since Plan A(tm) is about separating your spouse from the OP, maybe it has been a success and not fizzled.

But...

I didn't do what I intended to do.

1) I didn't lose weight.
2) I didn't become a better worker.
3) I was unable to faithfully serve her every need without any expectation that my needs would be filled.
4) I LB'ed (some).

On the negative side, she regularly reaffirms that she hates me. (but always follows by saying "I don't really hate you. I just don't love you.")

I define success in Plan A by arriving at the point where the WS falls in love with the BS.

This definitely has not happened.

But there are a few good moments. Today at lunch, W was very warm and pleasant - and looked really great too. When I came in, she was on the phone with her Mom. She came over and kindof patted me on the head to acknowledge me. I started cleaning the kitchen and "fixing" lunch. After she got off the phone, she came over and gave me a big hug - not for me, but because she needed it. She was talking to her Mom about her bro's drinking.

Anybody have an analysis?

Is there any hope that she will actually fall in love with me? (Man, that sounds ridiculous!)

-AD

<small>[ August 15, 2003, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: AD. ]</small>

Yes, AD, I think there is hope she will fall in love with you. Keep posting and learning.

I sounds like it WAS a success. I think we keep hoping to come to a point where we are hoping to FEEL like a success, and it's not going to happen.

Ever see Kenneth Branagh's "Henry V"? Remember what the soldiers looked like after they had "won"? Remember how they didn't even know that they had "won" till they were told by the emissary? More military metaphors from me...but I think it's apt. This feels more like war than romance. You keep having to keep pressing on despite defeats, keep your attitude up, disregard the disappearing soldiers on your side, defections, etc.

I am writing this when I am feeling defeated, too. But it looks like the A is heading for the rocks -- just as all you MBers predicted. And the family is intact, though it is a daily battle to keep it together. I still don't know what's going to "happen" -- but if there is any rapprochement in the future, I'm going to have a lot of anger to deal with, and my caustic tongue.

Anyway, I've gotten to know you better -- and I think you sound GREAT!

Thanks AM.

I suppose the tide has turned in my favor, although it doesn't feel like it. I hope the tide turns in your favor also.

W and I are going to attempt a road trip next week, so I probably won't be around for awhile.

W is extremely sensitive to whining from our almost-3-year-old. So, if our darling little one starts to tire from the long ride, I'm afraid W will be trapped in a small space with the most irritating thing on earth for her... and when W gets wound up, so will I. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I'm going to buy a portably DVD player this evening. We'll stop along the way and buy more disks if we need 'em. I think we may find that no price is too high if it keeps the little one content.

Our trip begins with a wedding tomorrow afternoon. Weddings are full of triggers for us - since W regards our wedding as some kind of mideaval (sp?) forced-march. She stood at the back of the church and said to her Dad "Papa, I can't." - her last plea for a reprieve - and he replied "Go, like a soldier."

Thanks, FIL, Thanks a lot! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

If she had balked at the wedding, it would have been embarassing for all, but I think I at least would have recovered by now.

-AD

AD,

I think to some extent you have to drop history. Whether at the wedding or last week, she has chosen you -- and it's time for her, IMVHO, to accept her own decision and work with it. And you have to stop letting her beat you with that history. If she feels that way still -- she can get a divorce. But she hasn't. You can't keep using history as a dodge to refuse present responsibilities and commitments. Throughout history, lots of women have been even forced, rather than nudged, into marriage. But the question is always: what are you going to do now? She has chosen to continue -- so she might as well do it with a full heart, rather than half of one.

My own M began in the aftermath of a divorce H didn't want, but at some point, you have to pull up your socks and say, this is my destiny.

Kids can be programmed out of whining. Lots of ways. Imitate a whining, snivelling sound back to them so it sounds funny. Refuse to respond to a whine and make it clear to them that you won't in future. Wouldn't have put up with it from my kid. It drives everyone nuts. Won't let my dogs do it, either.

You say you don't feel like you've won. I bet OM feels like you have!

The tide has turned -- now it remains to find out what "in my favor" is. Like you, I wonder...

How did I do?

Poorly!
Many times, you can see almost zero results and have a very, very successful Plan A. What you do (and how you do it) in Plan A sets up everything for later, whether it's complete reconciliation and restoring of the marriage, PLan B, separation, divrce, whatever.

I define success in Plan A by arriving at the point where the WS falls in love with the BS.
But that not even close to what a successful Plan A is nor is it the description according to MB principles.

From What are Plan A and Plan B?

"Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands."

A.M,

Thanks for your comments.

One thing I think I have done correctly is to acknowledge W view of our wedding. It took about 6 months after our marriage for W to tell me that she felt forced to marry me. Before that I endured 6 months of her smashing dishes and other non-verbal "cues". I had no idea why she was doing those things and would ask her repeatedly. I felt like she had simply gone insane. I even took her against her will to a mental health center one time.

I don't have to agree with her view, but I accept as a fact, that from her perspective, she was forced to marry me. I acknowledge her view and do not try to disuade her of it. I even make the point myself in discussions with her. Once or twice she has taken a different line - that she married to me try to please her parents - which I think is closer to the mark.

But lately, she herself has said that since we are married and have a child, we might as well try to make it as pleasant as possible. She herself suggested that we avoid "relationship" talks. I think we're singing from the same song sheet now. It's not the song I wanted to sing, but it's not the worst one either.

As for the wedding tomorrow. The last time we went to a wedding (only wedding we've been to since we married), she kissed me while walking down the sidewalk outside the church. In public! I don't know what that was about, but I think there is a great deal of confusion within her. I think part of her wants to create some kind of romantic view of the past, because she wants to have that. Another part of her is bitter. So, it may be OK, if the bitter part stays dormant tomorrow.

I gotta go now.

Hope Ya'll have a good week.

-AD