Mimi

I am so sorry you are struggling today. I think you are right, your H can be gracious for any number of reasons, not least his poor behaviour, and of course it will make him feel better. He will be able to tell OW and anyone else that he did the right thing by you.

But Mimi, this isn't the right thing for you. This is very painful for you and understandably so. I think if you are aiming towards behaving in a Plan B way, a Plan B letter may well help you focus your mind. For me, I too didn't want to give up or accept that my H wouldn't even try. But let's look at your situation.

You have had a certain amount of success in Plan A - in fact perhaps that is why your H is being so nice, you were sure nice to him, he probably hopes this can continue on, because he is fence sitting/cake eating to a certain point. Plan B is because you can't take it anymore, you love is running out, you're going to start LBing, you need to work solely on you. Sometimes (I think in my case), it was also the adamant nature of my H that he did not want to work with me. It was too painful to me just being "friends", knowing his A was developing, but he wanted to keep me in the loop. That was another reason for me to go to Plan B.

I would suggest you write a Plan B letter - whether you send it or not is a different matter. It will clarify how you stand with your H - you love him very much and will happily work on your M once there is NC and he is ready to do that. However, until that time it is too painful to you to be in contact other than practicalities, (do you have children, but you know). I honestly believe that sometimes writing things down can be a great help.

Take care.

Lisa

Ooops double post!

<small>[ May 14, 2003, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Lisa in London ]</small>

Wow so much of your post is ditto for me! I can't describe it!

Something that especially hit home was the part about him getting mad at you. I so want to be at the point where I don't give a hoot if he's mad or not! Your right, thats how they still control us and it really bugs me.

Don't rush your process. (You'll just end up going backwards)This is like when a smoker gets nagged by everyone that smoking is bad and they should quit. The smoker knows but nothing is going to work untill he is READY to quit.

Take one day at a time! Somedays you will feel really strong, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> others will be downright terrible <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ! But little by little you will find that you have more of the good ones and you are moving on! Live your life, hopefully someday he will want to catch up if you let him!

Go out and have fun. Movies, dinner with friends helps a lot, it gives you a new perpective. Warning though the first time will be strange, expect that. Second avoid places that will bring back fond memories.

Little by little, life will be easier! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Thanks for responding LISA and CRUNCHIE!

I feel weird today because I know I'm in a different place than I have been before. It's hard to describe.

I feel like I did when my father died. However, the person that I am grieving for is still alive and breathing. I just can't get to him;can't reach him. Maybe I should express this in a letter to my WS. He knows how life-changing my father's death was to me.

I am actively grieving the loss of my H. I am acknowledging for the first time that he is no longer who he once was. I am acknowledging that he has shared and is sharing himself with someone else, an alien, a stranger, a woman who is foreign to me and the world that I live in. He seems drawn by that world and that part is scary. I may seem moralistic. I don't mean to be. I am trying to paint the picture here. She curses, drinks a lot, is not a Christian. I am the GOOD GIRL and she is the BAD GIRL. He has knowingly chosen the BAD GIRL and would probably admit this to you if you asked him. I cannot understand this. It seems irrational.

He continues to want to keep this secret. He does not want the banker or the car dealer to know that he is SEPARATED from me. He wants to continue to portray himself as an upstanding citizen. Should i spill the beans although he is HELPING ME get my finances in order, playacting like the dutiful spouse? This is crazy-making! I want to become financially independent from him.

Crunchie, you are right. I am not ready to give him up although it's what I need to do. I will take it one hr. at a time, remembering to ACCEPT THIS REALITY .

Lisa, at the same time, I will be working on my letter and focusing in on myself. I'm clear now, as you may can tell, that she and I are not comparable. I can never be anything like her or she like me.

I LIKE WHO I AM A LOT BETTER TODAY THAN I DID YESTERDAY BUT I AM HURTING MORE!!

Any comments are welcomed.

Mimi

Just a quick note because I am off to bed.

Oh dear, would you think badly of me because I swear a bit, drink and am not Christian <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm sure not, and you should not focus on me anymore that you should on OW. She is not worth your energy or attention.

It is interesting about whether to spill the beans or not. I think WAT did a series of threads on whether or not your should inform other people - including OP's spouse, family, work colleagues etc. I actually think that at this moment in time do what is best for you. So, if that means you make use of H to get your finances and stuff sorted out, well so be it. There is plenty of time for making other decisions when you have to. Take care of you right now by whatever means you have to.

Thinking of you and wishing you well from London.

Lisa

I think what makes it so difficult for us BS is that we do remember how close we once were. How intimate, the being ONE kind of thing and its that place of specialness that they've given to someone else.

I was telling my daughter what a special day it was when she was born. How nervous daddy was. And that got me to thinking-- we've shared the most special bond that any two human being can share "we created life together" and yet he can walk away! That hurst soooo much.

But I guess its like any loss we suffer, it gets easier to endure with each passing day!

You know whats scaring me? I'm not sure I want him back anymore!!!!I don't know? I mean its really not my decision right now but if he were to come back, I not sure that I'd be extatic!

Sorry! This is your post! But I guess sharing with each helps us to cope!

I really goofed!! I drove by his condo and her house and they both saw me.

This was supposed to happen. Too much of a coincidence.

I reached my bottom. This is it!!!

I must be loosing it.

Don't beat yourself up over it!

Just laugh at your "awesome" spying techniques <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
and move on!

And remember what you've been told, forget them. Worry about yourself! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mimi1254:
<strong>I really goofed!! I drove by his condo and her house and they both saw me.

This was supposed to happen. Too much of a coincidence.

I reached my bottom. This is it!!!

I must be loosing it.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No you are not loosing it...... be Wonder Woman.... let them wonder why ths woman is driving past those places (note I say places not homes or even houses). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Now they have to keep watching out if you will be driving by again. Now how cozy do you think that will make them? Hm..... got some stories to share with you on that subject but that is also how I got them to LB each other for days to weeks on end without lifting a finger. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

L.

Hi Mimi,
I am just getting back from vacation and am catching up on your thread. I am so sorry it has come to this, but it is still not hopeless. I would immediately move to Plan B and send him a Plan B letter THIS WEEK.

Seperate your finances, or make plans to, and include those details in your letter. Make arrangements in the letter for him to pick up his clothes and the condo furniture. I think Plan B has to be executed now because you have Plan Aed long enough for him to see your changes. Plan A has not, however, brought him out of this and has only enabled him to get his needs met by TWO women. He needs to see that the majority of his needs are met by you and he won't see that unless you stop doing it.

Also, your feelings for him are quickly going south right now, which will threaten any future chance of reconciliation. It will only get worse if you continue contact. The pressure of daily contact is taking a high toll on your nerves and your self esteem. It's time to detach and protect yourself, in my opinion, and start taking back control of your life. Please start working on your Plan B letter TODAY. Spacecase posted some wonderful examples so look for his thread on Plan B letters. Just please don't make it a sappy, romance novel and make us all gag, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hi Mimi,
I am just getting back from vacation and am catching up on your thread. I am so sorry it has come to this, but it is still not hopeless. I would immediately move to Plan B and send him a Plan B letter THIS WEEK.

Seperate your finances, or make plans to, and include those details in your letter. Make arrangements in the letter for him to pick up his clothes and the condo furniture. I think Plan B has to be executed now because you have Plan Aed long enough for him to see your changes. Plan A has not, however, brought him out of this and has only enabled him to get his needs met by TWO women. He needs to see that the majority of his needs are met by you and he won't see that unless you stop doing it.

Also, your feelings for him are quickly going south right now, which will threaten any future chance of reconciliation. It will only get worse if you continue contact. The pressure of daily contact is taking a high toll on your nerves and your self esteem. It's time to detach and protect yourself, in my opinion, and start taking back control of your life. Please start working on your Plan B letter TODAY. Spacecase posted some wonderful examples so look for his thread on Plan B letters. Just please don't make it a sappy, romance novel and make us all gag, ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hello to ALL and Melody it was so great to hear from you.

I wrote and delivered a LETTER last night. I'm not sure that it was a PLAN B letter, per se. I basically told my WS that I was going to have minimal contact with him until July 2nd. On that day he has agreed to take me for some cosmetic surgery which I'm sure he's eager for me to have. After losing 60 plus pounds, parts of my body are deformed. I'm doing this for me, not for him and was not planning to cancel it because of his plan to separate.

I'm feeling alot stronger after the letter. He called and THANKED me for it (ON VOICEMAIL). He also asked me to PRAY for him and suggested that he will eventually be able to do NC with OW after he "goes through this window" ?????? I'm feeling a lot stronger but he continues ,as indicated ,to try to reel me back in. I'm wondering what in the world he means.

I blew it today already. I had a flat tire and ended up calling him. I was just so pissed to have to deal with this crap all alone after depending on him my whole life to help me. He again graciously wanted to play the "husband" role and called the car dealership to get them to assist me.

I did GOOD though. I arranged to get my car serviced and picked it up before WS even called back to check on how things went. I guess he had to do whatever he had to do with OW in the middle of the day. He seemed confused (on the Voice Mail) about me not calling him back to let him know how things went with the car. I was a BIG GIRL and proceeded to take care of it all myself. He definitely does not believe that I will limit my contact with him.

I have yet to do anything about the condo furniture which he has not asked for again today. I like it that they do not have furniture over there.

<small>[ May 15, 2003, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

Hi Mimi,

I am not real familiar with Plan B so I am hoping some of the others will chime in here about the best way to proceed. But my understanding is that it's important to cut off ALL contact until his affair has ended. Did you tell him that in your letter? Here is an excerpt from Harley's article about Plan A and B [please go read the entire article, it's really good!] Do you have Surviving an Affair?

"Plan B is for the betrayed spouse to avoid all contact with the wayward spouse until the affair has completely ended and the wayward spouse has agreed to my plan for recovery. In many cases, once an affair has ended, a betrayed spouse makes the mistake of taking the wayward spouse back before an agreement is made regarding marital recovery. This leads to a return to all the conditions that made the affair possible -- love is not restored, resentment is not overcome, and there is a very great risk for another affair. Without agreement and subsequent implementation of a plan for recovery, the betrayed spouse is better off continuing with plan B. "

entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html

Mimi, since you are going to do an agreement on separation, do have your own bank acct!
If he is going to give you alimony and child support as you said, large sum, it should be in your name only! NO way do you put that in a joint acct.
As for the joint one, keep it but you do not add any monies to it that he gives you separately.
I think he will want to take you off his acct soon.
No matter, any monies agreed on for support is separate and should not be where he can access it!
Why did you agree to give him half equity in house? As for that, you should have it totally for you and the children. Then if you do divorce, you should get it and see for all the equity to you!
That's what my daughter did and just paid cash for her new home! NO payments.
Now, yes, you should sit and talk this out, but with a lawyer, to protect you! You're own lawyer he pays for though.
Do not trust a man who is sweet talking you, being nice while screwing around on you at the same time. NEVER Trust him!
What he has proven so far is he was lying to you all along about going NC.
Now he's trying to scam you to guard his assets and as-!
Take it from one old enough to have seen it all.
Let him pay and let him give up home entirely!
In most any court in the land, the wife with children gets the home as her separate proptery!
Plus alimony and child support. Plus, in some states if you've been married long enough, such as I have here, you get alimony for life even if you remarried. TEE HEE!
Don't his patsy. As for your confidence?
You got it, just dig in there and bring it out.
Get your cosmetic surgery, get a whole new look that will wow men on the street! Exercise to look your very best.
Toss out the old look and go chic! Sexy class. LOL
Get an update hairstyle if you don't now, learn the makeup tricks, and go for it!
You can make him drool every time he sees you, but don't give in!
Most men want what they can't have! it's the old chase and conquer!
When little miss dumb [censored] is avialable all the time and you aren't, I'd not be surprised to find him trying to sneak over to be with you. Dont allow!
Be mysterious about your new life and what you're doing. Don't be available everytime he calls. Get caller id and do not answer if it's him. OR have a teenager over to answer and say you're out for evening and she's babysitting. LOL
Oh, I forgot to see ages of your children.
So maybe you don't need babysitter. Just do not be around all the time.
Pretty soon, he'll be driving by our house to see where you are!
Never Grovel. Makes them feel so superior and in control. He now needs to know he's not in control of you anymore. He gave up that right.
God bless, LouLou

Lady Lou:
What am I missing in regards to him scamming me?

We already signed the legal separation agreement, using my lawyer. WS agreed to the ALIMONY FOR LIFE. There's not much equity in my house, huge home equity loan that I don't want responsibility for. My lawyer didn't push for me to get sole ownership of the house for some reason.

I will proceed with the separate checking account.

Thanks for your continued support.

You guys, I feel like I'm getting stronger and stronger each day and more and more pissed off!!

Mimi,
It sounds like you are on top of things and I do have to say that you sound so much calmer now. Now, if we can just get you to stop the drive bys! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> If I am not here, you can email me if you want at dana100@cablelynx.com.

What did you say in your Plan B letter? Hopefully, it left a good taste in his mouth but ended all contact.

Sorry Mimi, I haven't been checking in on the board so much.

I agree that there is no point to a Plan B letter if you will go back on it. If it boxes you in.

It sounds like you have protected yourself with the separation agreement. Put all the checks in an account in your name.

Do not discuss the furniture with him. IGNORE IT. Do not bring it up. IT IS HIS PROBLEM. However, if any of his stuff is in your way, put it in the basement until he picks it up.

WORK ON YOUR OWN INTERESTS, go out and do stuff. Make a point of being out on Saturday night. MAKE IT A RESOLUTION!

Limit your interactions with your H as much as possible. Stop talking to him. Leave him alone with his OW.

Either- they are soulmates and he is going to live happily ever after with her in which case you have to adapt and be strong and get over him in which case you might as well start the process now.

OR- he's gonna live with this OW for a couple of months and start to see her flaws and get sick of her. This will only happen if you ignore him and force him to rely on her completely.

Great job with the Plan A. As for the Plan B letter- actions speak louder than words. He knows you love him, he knows you are in pain and he knows that for your marriage to recover he has to break it off with OW.

Espoir:

You are MY soulmate. You seem to really understand me. I really appreciate your posts!

Oh Mimi - I've been off of MB for the last couple of days and just caught up on you. I wrote you a long message and then my %&*%*& connection cut off and I lost it all. So I'm going to try and briefly recommunicate some of it.

First I think Espoir in the last post was so clear. I am going to try and follow those words myself.

Secondly, my WH sounds so similar to yours at this point. He is willing to do anything for me except for GIVE UP THE OW! In some ways I feel like maybe he has met his "soul mate" and cannot give her up yet is trying to do the "right thing" in all other respects. Some people say - "well, let him cut the grass, wash your car, watch the kids, etc." but in some ways I feel like that would be letting him have his cake (be a family man) and eat it too (have OW). Plus it was too confusing to me. He would be at my house a lot and i would think - maybe he's given up OW - he hadn't.

I've been pushing, pushing, pushing my WH away and it feels wrong but the other way wasn't working either. In fact, I think I waited too long - I still long to save our family but cannot really see us being able to work this out in the long run now.

Similar to your, my WH didn't want anyone to know we had separated and would say things to the effect of "when this is over (meaning the affair)". He just recently removed his wedding band (at my request).

This is a very difficult position to be in because there is so much doubt and mixed messages. On one hand I see so many signs that my Wh wants to be home with us yet he still has OW. I've given up. Before you get to this point - go into a full-scale Plan B.

Espoir says,
Great job with the Plan A. As for the Plan B letter- actions speak louder than words. He knows you love him, he knows you are in pain and he knows that for your marriage to recover he has to break it off with OW.

This is true - he knows whhat it takes.

DIJ

Due Injan:

I do not know a lot about your situation. However, I would say DON'T GIVE UP. I read LOVE MUST BE TOUGH by Dobson again last night. You might want to read it. It is basically a PLAN B approach. My WH responded to it whenever I was able to uphold it.

I really see my WS' affair as being an addiction as suggested by the Harleys. Steve H. calls his OW a drug dealer. My WS has even said that he is "addicted" to her. I was told that when we let them cake-eat we are enabling the addiction, allowing them to continue without feeling the full negative effect. The goal is to detach from the triangle.

Plus, if my WS' OW is his soulmate, then I don't need to be with him. I'm convinced their relationship is unhealthy as much as I know about it. I think that's why he keeps coming back for a dose of reality.

I've done well today though. No Contact at all.
I still can't understand why he's not trying to get his clothes and the condo furniture. It's bizarre. I wonder if he bought another set of clothes.

Everyone says for me to focus on myself. It's become obvious to me now that I don't know how to do that. That's a major goal that I need to work towards.

Thanks to you all.