TEW

What part of MB philosophy are you here to discuss?

Pep

PS .... I do like you, not what you have done. But, that's irrelevent.

Pepper,
Not here to discuss/debate MB philosphies. I was curious and asked a question. Trying to gage other BSs opinions to see if anger at X would outweigh desire to minimize ime his or her child/ren spends w/ OP. I thought it would. I guess not. tew

<small>[ May 22, 2003, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: tewjtm ]</small>

If 100 BS's tell you something, that does not make the response from YOUR BS different.

Would you ever consider trying the MB principles? Have you read them? Have you read any marriage books?

Pep

TEW .... Would you like to be happily married someday?

Pep

Pepper,
I will get back to you tonight after I get the kids to bed. I have to go pick up daughter, run to the paper, and stop by the pizza place - tomorrow is last day of school and the class is having a pizza party. Yes, I have read a lot of MB literatue. I even use bits and pieces in my relationship w/ FMM.

If 100 BS's tell you something, that does not make the response from YOUR BS different.

True. It is the same when a BS posts a question to an OW trying to gage her respone even though it is not "her" OW. tew

<small>[ May 22, 2003, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: tewjtm ]</small>

TEW,

What offends me about you is this .... you are not doing things that will develop YOU into a devoted wife and partner. You pick MM .... which shows YOUR lack of desire to be fully committed. You "live with" a man .... but do not committ.

You pretend.

Wake up TEW .... your life has meaning. Your life has value. You waste yourself while you devote your time to "fixing" dumb [censored] stupid MM's problematic lives.

I DO care about you TEW. I DO like you TEW. I think enough of you to say you are being idiotic with these "questions" on MB when YOU have REAL issues you need to address!!!!!

If you were my daughter, I'd "ground" you! LOL!

Pep

"My FMM enhances my life. However, I was 'whole' long before he came along. If we marry and he leaves me for another OW I will still be whole as I am me and am quite comfortable with myself."

Well, good for you. The comfort you feel with your 'wholeness' is not the problem.

All these children will learn what?

An 11-year-old boy is left with a part-time dad. He sees his that dad never married his mother. He sees that his dad left a pregnant wife to be with an OW. He sees his dad shacking up with the OW and her child. He has to share visitation time with his dad with an OW and her child. When this boy comes of age, how much will he respect women? Will he have any role model for monogamy? Fidelity? Fatherhood? Where will he learn the patience and hard work it takes to build a healthy long term relationship?

An infant girl is left with a part-time dad. She is left with an angry mom who has EMAs of her own. Does she develop an attachment to her mom's OM(s)? Does she develop an attachment to her dad's OW? Does she develop an attachment to her dad's OW's 9-year old daughter? Does she develop an attachment to her dad's 11-year-old illigitimate son? If her dad leaves his current live-in OW, will she need to develop an attachment to yet another OW? Although, you claim you will be 'comfortable' if this happends, there is a baby who will have to suffer yet another confusing abandonment.

A 9 year old girl is without a real father. She learns that men are not to be trusted. She learns that fathers are dispensable. She learns that marriage vows are not important. She knows that having babies with men you are not married to is OK. She shares her mother's time with .... MM, his 11 year old illigitimate son, his infant baby .... and perhaps she previously shared her mother's time with the previous MM's children as well. She becomes comfortable with revolving men.

But, you're comfortable with YOUR wholeness.

Pep

<small>[ May 22, 2003, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pepper,
Sorry it took so long to reply. Got caught up in a few things and then FMM took a long break. He just left to go back to work.

All these children will learn what?

An 11-year-old boy is left with a part-time dad. He sees his that dad never married his mother.

When MM got this woman pregnant he was young and stupid. He got her pregnant when he was on a leave at home from the army. He immediately signed the baby up for benefits and began paying CS from the date the child was born.

She was seeing him on the rebound. Shortly after the baby's birth she married the man that she was on the outs with. These 2 are still married. However, all is not roses. This man not only beats her, he has depleted her savings and gave to his OW, he also has 2 OC from 2 OW. Throughout the years FMM has always seen his son - as much as she would let him. When we moved in I was shocked at the number of times he would call and ask to take son somewhere and she would refuse - for no reason. Thus I helped him petition the courts to legitimate his son. We next filed for a visitation schedule. We have had to go back to court twice for contempt as she often will not abide by schedule.

Thus, I hope the 11-year-old learns that his daddy loves him. That if you create a child you need to be responsible for the child financially as well as stay active in child's life. That even if 2 people are not married and have a child that they both can be a part of the child's life.

He sees that his dad left a pregnant wife to be with an OW. He sees his dad shacking up with the OW and her child.

No. He never met FMM's W. In fact, he never even met his sister till 3 weeks ago. I told you until we went to Court 2/25 of this year he had a hard time seeing this child. We only had him about 3 times prior to this and they were not on days when we had his daughter. As we do not share adult business w/ him he has no idea I am an OW.

He has to share visitation time with his dad with an OW and her child.

If FMM was still w/ W he would have had to do the same thing. And when we marry it will be the same. I always encourage them to spend time one on one. His son often requests me and my daughter and son go also.

When this boy comes of age, how much will he respect women? Will he have any role model for monogamy? Fidelity? Fatherhood? Where will he learn the patience and hard work it takes to build a healthy long term relationship?

I know he should have a huge respect for fatherhood. He has seen over the years the number of times his father was denied visitation. He also sees his father kept trying. He also saw his daddy cared enough about him to go to court to get his rights. He sees his daddy drive almost 2 hours (1 way) to check his progress at school. He sees love with his daddy. That I do know.

Do you believe that FMM should have came home and married this girl who was in love with someone else because he got her pregnant? Should they have stayed together and tried to make it work for his sake?

My mom is an ob/gyn and she put her career and life on hold and stayed in a marriage where she and her H were miserable. They did it for my sister. When my mom drove my sis to college dorm 2 years ago she came home and found my step-father GONE. He had done his duty. He stayed until Nicole was of age and on her own. A lot to put on a young girl My sister is still pained because of this.

So, what did my sister learn? She has told me a million times she wishes they would have gotten divorced long ago.

An infant girl is left with a part-time dad. She is left with an angry mom who has EMAs of her own. Does she develop an attachment to her mom's OM(s)?

I have no clue. And many married fathers that are in the home pay far less attention to their child than he does.

Does she develop an attachment to her dad's OW?
Yes, she has.

Does she develop an attachment to her dad's OW's 9-year old daughter?
Yes, she has.

Does she develop an attachment to her dad's 11-year-old illigitimate son?

Not yet, they just met. His son is LEGITIMATE. Even though they were never married he legitimated the child through court. And she should as he is her only brother.

If her dad leaves his current live-in OW, will she need to develop an attachment to yet another OW? Although, you claim you will be 'comfortable' if this happends, there is a baby who will have to suffer yet another confusing abandonment.

True. However, if he divorced W and met someone who was not an OW the same thing could happen. They could stay married 4 years and then D and then he may marry again.

A 9 year old girl is without a real father. She learns that men are not to be trusted. She learns that fathers are dispensable. She learns that marriage vows are not important. She knows that having babies with men you are not married to is OK. She shares her mother's time with .... MM, his 11 year old illigitimate son, his infant baby .... and perhaps she previously shared her mother's time with the previous MM's children as well. She becomes comfortable with revolving men.

I really do regret my D's father is an @sshole. For the last 3 years FMM is the only father she has known. He has been a huge help. He even played the Easter Bunny at school for an outing once. I NEVER let theother MM around the kids at all. They never even met him. That was one of his major complaints.

Being married does not automatically give a child a sense of trust etc. Nor, does it protect them from issues of trust. Often children of marriage are introduced to their daddies OC and vice versa - just look at the pregnancy board. So what does a child learn when they see his or her daddy repeatedly cheat on the mother/W and create OC that take away the family income. Then daddy comes home and promises not to do it again - and then does. Then mommy is crying, raging, out of control. I am sure this breeds trust.

Look at kily. She is married. What are her kids learning? Where is daddy? What are they learning aboiut fatherhood - he hasn't seen them in a month. (kily this is not meant as an attack on you I am just using this as an example).

Pepper,
Marriages are not always perfect. The same lessons my kids are learning other kids in marriages do too.

I do want to be married. I am committed to FMM. When we first moved in I was not sure. I had to end and receive closure from other relationship. I have. I also wanted to be sure of him. When I got married before I had the storybook idea of forever. My mom and my real dad really were poor examples of the institution. I vowed not to make the same mistakes. My H seemed great UNTIL we married. Then the man who was so tender turned abusive. Yet, for a while I hung in there (knowing it would never work) because I never wanted to be divorced.

I have the other MM out of my system. I am now 100% sure of my love for FMM. We have now lived together almost 16 months. I will marry him. We are looking at the first weekend in September. I just wanted it to be right.

But, you're comfortable with YOUR wholeness.

Yes. tew

I mean this sincerely TEW, good luck.

If and when you marry FMM, you "take on" all his baggage, along with yours. The BS you have issues with, will forever be in your life. You will be family with her at graduations, proms, weddings, baby showers. You will enjoy the company of her OP. Her parents. Her friends. Enjoy her, and, if you can't do that, then, make peace with her. If you take on all that is FMM, you forfeit the right to complain about the backwash years down the road. (Just as I have, when I made the decision to rebuild my marriage)

In other words, TEW, it may never get any better than it is right now. Is this family dynamic what you want? If "yes", get married. if "no" move on, because it is what it is. Can you live with it "as is"? And, it could get much worse. You choose this life. You must accept it. Just as the BS's and the FBS's choose to stay after an A, and they must accept that reality and those risks. A BS generally does not "choose" a partner that has cheated. They receive that choice after already building a life and making babies. TEW, on the other hand, chooses a cheating man before becoming a family. See the difference.
Love (between you and FMM) has very little to do with how well your family will function. How well you can accept all this baggage DOES matter.

Accept the BS, and all her craziness. She is now a part of your life, and she is likely to become more burdensome as time goes on, not less.

Do what you can to form an alliance with her. You chose her, she didn't choose you.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

"I file all my FMM's motions. I also have his Power of Attorney. This allows me to be more proficient in dealing w/his kids' doctors and son's school teachers etc."

Years from now, when you are married, say 10 years to FMM, and you wish he was strong and less ineffective in dealing with his own problems, when you are wishing you didn't have to handle all his "problematic stuff" .... remember how empowered you felt as you took on things FMM was too weak to do himself. You are going to be yolked to a man who may not be capable of effecient problem solving. If he is this weak, that's who he is. Remember you said "He jumped the gun" when he married his XW. What does that say about his ppersonality? I am not knocking HIM. I am sure he is a nice guy. Fun. Sweet, and all that. But, he will not be the strong decision maker in your relationship, so don't complain about this characteristic of his later in life.

This little baby girl being raised by two households .... she will be a teenager one day. She is being raised part-time by a nutty, probably sometimes unstable woman. (See TEW, I do believe you when you say something is not right about her .... now, take that fact and project it into YOUR future) Then you will have one very confused, acting out young woman on your hands. She may very well have some of her mother's genetic weaknesses in her personality complex. She may very well have major issues with all the adults involved in creating the fact that she did not grow up in a house with a mommy and a daddy under one roof. She is VERY likely to become sexualized at a very early age. YOU are not to complain. You volunteered for this.

You are walking into a very complicated situation, one where most things of value have already been compromised. Your power over the outcome is very limited.

Good luck TEW. I just wish you had the power to change all these pitiful adults you are bringing into your daughter's life. But, you don't. Your choices will affect your daughter's life forever. Your daughter's economic future will be entwined with all these other childrens' problems. You get married, there will be an economic responsibility that has profound far-reaching effect on your 9 year old.

If you want all of this, you are either very short-sighted, or very very gutsy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Just, remember, don't complain about the flavor of the icecream, if that's the flavor you ordered!

You take care!

Pep

<small>[ May 23, 2003, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

TEST

Pepper,
I lost my post. I will respond in a.m. as I need sleep and want to give your post some thought. Had little sleep last night, FSS had grad this a.m., and I am now going to lay w/ the baby as she is sleeping. TGIF - 3 days off!!! tew

TEW .... No need to respond. You are not on the hot seat or anything. I've got a big mouth and I like to shoot it off sometimes. But, you're a "kid" in my book, and my natural instinct is to nag.

Sorry~~~~~~