It's been rough this past 24 hours. I really miss my wife.I am tired of projecting happiness all the time. I sure wish this would end. Caught myself looking at personel ads last night. Was just so lonely. I know I'll get over it but that is then and this is now.

I am to meet WW at power company at 1pm today. Getting everything over into my name.Hope she shows up on time so that the kids can see some of her before she goes to work. Hope I can see some of her before she goes to work.

I will sure be ready for plan B. Seeing her a few minutes every day is hard. I think it will be easier not to see her at all. At least then I won't be reminded about what is missing evey day.

WW just picked up kids. Told me she had to go because OM is sending someone by the house to see if she comes in. Now I know why she was in such a hurry at the power office.

I asked her how she puts up with that and she said it will just be for a little while. Yeah right.

I might as well go to "B" now as we will only have 30seconds of contact a day. Why put myself through that pain when I can't do any good anyhow? What do you guys think?

I can't understand that FEAR they have of the OP? Can you? It's like their being controlled by an alien force. YUK!!!

mimi,
I know what you mean. Her mom can't believe what shes doing and really can't believe she is putting up with this crap.

Looks like I'm supposed to drop the kids off at their hotel this weekend, OM going to see his kids. I offered to jst pick her up so they could spend a lot of time together bu she said no. Actually had a look of fear cross her face. I don't think it was for her safety, just that he would be checking up on her and would know she wasn't in room.

I would love to put some pressure on him but haven't figured out how to do it without LB'ing WW.

Hurting, I've been re-reading this thread to catch up a little more. I may have missed it, but how in the world did your W get hooked up with a loser like this? It simply doesn't make any sense that she would leave her family for someone whose just gotten out of rehab...but who said WS's make sense? Wasn't me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I think you can make a big impression on your W in 30 seconds or less. Just project the strength and confidence it seems you're gaining and protect the kids at all costs. She'll notice.

Been reading 180 Divorce Busting tactics. Maybe you could read up on that and throw a little of those in the mix. Do something unexpected, out of character (but nice now). Shake things up a bit!

Do things you enjoy with the kids. I'd forget about the personals for now. It ain't over yet. It's not gonna take too long for your W to do the comparison shopping when they're together 24/7. You know, the grass is always greener until you've dug your hole to the other side... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

h12,

This OM deserves a big [censored] punch in the nose. She really should be scared of this nut. He seems to have a very controlling personality. I am assuming she did not have that in you.

Is this something that she finds attractive in a man? Is this what she finds in OM that she did not find in you? Does she actually want her every move to be dictated, monitored and controlled...if not by OM then by his spies? Go figure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

OM has to remember that her/your children have "2" parents. She is the mom and you are the dad. That will never change. He cannot control that. He sure seems to be trying though. He is pressuring her to minimize all contact with you and next it may be her own children. After all, he has kids...hers would just get in the way, right?

I think you would do well to spend as much time with her as you can. Invite her in. Insist on it. Delay her departure with the kids. Don't have them ready when she comes to get them. Don't deliver them. Have her come to the house for them. Do anything you can to upset the balance with OM. Don't enable her decision to leave the marriage by making it convenient for her.

Plan B might not be such a good idea right now because it plays right into OM's hand. That's exactly what he wants. No contact. Give him just the opposite. Try and force as much contact as you can.

It's already evident that he does not trust her as he threatens her with spies and random phone calls to the hotel. They already have a rocky relationship. I would be trying to shake it up some more.

I have to say that I'm not a huge fan of your Plan A approach either however. Although this may be making a better man of you, plan A is a negotiation between two people to end the relationship with the OP and restore the M. She is doing nothing to end the relationship. She is only getting herself in deeper.

Plan A in my opinion often times breeds fear in the BS. The fear of LBing. The BS is constantly walking on eggshells. I tend to think that a WS would see that as a weakness and a turn-off and it becomes an LB that you are not even aware of.

I think there is a fine balance between committing yourself to be a better father, husband and man in general and enabling the A with through tolerance and fear of LBing. I hope you can find that balance.

jmho
ba109

<small>[ June 17, 2003, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: ba109 ]</small>

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TooOld4This:
[QB]Hurting, I've been re-reading this thread to catch up a little more. I may have missed it, but how in the world did your W get hooked up with a loser like this?

They work together on the same line so all breaks are together, then group coffee after work.

I think you can make a big impression on your W in 30 seconds or less. Just project the strength and confidence it seems you're gaining and protect the kids at all costs. She'll notice.

I'll try that. I did convince her when she got back to come to my moms to see the kids so I will get an hr or 2 with her

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ba109:
[QB]h12,

This OM deserves a big [censored] punch in the nose.

True true

She really should be scared of this nut. He seems to have a very controlling personality. I am assuming she did not have that in you.

Accused me of being controling. I honestly could not hold a candle to this guy on my worst day if I was trying to.

Is this something that she finds attractive in a man? Is this what she finds in OM that she did not find in you? Does she actually want her every move to be dictated, monitored and controlled...if not by OM then by his spies? Go figure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

What she got was conversation. We were on oposite shift and she needs that bad.

He is pressuring her to minimize all contact with you and next it may be her own children. After all, he has kids...hers would just get in the way, right?

His live 3hrs away. Mine would be in the way though and I figure that will be next. Pressure to minimize contact with our kids that is.

I think you would do well to spend as much time with her as you can. Invite her in. Insist on it. Delay her departure with the kids. Don't have them ready when she comes to get them. Don't deliver them. Have her come to the house for them. Do anything you can to upset the balance with OM. Don't enable her decision to leave the marriage by making it convenient for her.

Thats what I did today. They will never be ready when she gets here.

Plan B might not be such a good idea right now because it plays right into OM's hand. That's exactly what he wants. No contact. Give him just the opposite. Try and force as much contact as you can.

Ok that sounds right to me too.

I have to say that I'm not a huge fan of your Plan A approach either however.

I will do some thinking on that tonight.

Kind of a crappy visit today. WW was tired and irritable due to PMS. (She said it not me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). She did stay 1 1/2 hr.

Only oldest D spent much time with her, the other 3 spent about 10 minutes in the room. WW wondered if she should change visits to every other day. I told her maybe they are just trying to protect themselves. She agreed and will be back tomorrow.

Talked to kids afterwards. We just were not talking about anything they wanted to hear so they went to play. Remember over the last 4 months they have only seen their mom 10 minutes a day due to work schedule, so they are used to it.

Maybe I need to leave tomorrow so they can spend time together instead of WW telling me about work. I'm really not interested in that anyhow and if we get in recovery NC will require her to quit anyways.

Hurting, Don't leave when your wife visits the kids. Use this time to do things together as a family--play a board game, cards, ball, whatever the kids like to do. The kids will enjoy it having Mom and Dad together to play with and you all will have good memories of the fun you had.
(Plan A?) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

If your wife is not agreeable with that, then just busy yourself a little then come back in and offer to fix wife and kids a coke (make your presence known). No relationship or OM talk.

It's just a suggestion, you know what might work. But you can make this time together dual-duty...Visitation AND Plan A. - So DON'T leave. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

OK I'm doing the combo A and visit. I think I talked her into going to airshow with me and kids Saturday. She is continueing to come to my moms for visitation. Stays about 90 minutes so I do have time to A.

Wish she could come to my house though as one of the problems she had was me not making the kids do their chores. Now she doesn't see that they are still being done. Between me and the kids the house is cleaner than it ever was in the 16 years she was SAHM. And it's a habit now , I don't hardly even have to remind them anymore to do their parts.

Had a pretty good visit today. WS laughed a few times. She or I always seem to bring up OM for 1 reason or another though. Not fighting just will he let her do this or that. I have to work on that. We really don't need to talk about him.

How about when she says no to an offer to do something if I said "Ok, if thats the way you want it." or "Ok if you don't want to thats fine." Would that be better than the usual "He's still not comfortable with that?" or "He won't let you do that either?" ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"How about when she says no to an offer to do something if I said "Ok, if thats the way you want it." or "Ok if you don't want to thats fine." Would that be better than the usual "He's still not comfortable with that?" or "He won't let you do that either?" ? "</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh most definitely since the last two are undoubtably love busters. Can you say disrespectful judgement?

<small>[ June 19, 2003, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

Airshow with you and the kids...GREAT! I hope she does.

When she says no to something you suggest doing together say something like "OK that's fine. Do you have something in mind that you'd really like to do? Don't bring OM into your conversations at all, you're not dealing with him, just her. And if she brings him up, about what he will allow or not, just listen but don't comment on what a bum he is. Just listen, and maybe she will hear what she is saying too.

Good luck! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WS came a little late today, had been looking at houses. Spent no time with kids wanted to sit with me and talk some. She looked like crap. Said she was getting no sleep. I asked what is causing that and she said worried about money and how she would pay this or that.

She asked for a reduction in support. Since she is paying 230/wk and guidelines are 173/wk I agreed.

Out of blue she said she feels like she is being pulled in 100 different directions. I asked her to explain. She said everyone wants something and she can't do it all, she is just too tired.
I told her I'm not asking for anything, response "The airshow, rummage sales and stuff." I calmly replied "I'm just asking if you want to do those things, just offering. You can decide if you want to or not, it's up to you I'm not making any demands." Then I reminded her that I have given her every conssesion she has asked for. I'm not fighting her in any way. Whatever she wants is fine with me.

She agreed that it is that way. I asked her if she wanted to rummage sale tomorrow and she said she did. We have to hide her car though. I slipped up here and asked if he had not given her permission and she replied she hadn't asked.
Note: no sarcasm here from either of us ,just a question and answer.

So she can get more sleep she is changing visitation to Mon,Wed,Fri, Sunday, and Sun will be later in the day. She had originally said either Sat or Sun depending on work and I suggested Sun because she never works then.(Plus I know she wants to rummage sale with me so I get to see her 5 days/week instead of 4.)

Kids are going to spend the night with her tomorrow as OM is going to see his kids 3 hrs away.He won't be back until Sun afternoon late, so we might still do airshow on Sunday. I told her to ask what time he will be back so she can have our kids gone before he gets back. That also lets us know when to have her back home. (Gee I hope we don't have a flat and show up late <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

All in all a good day. She's feeling some pressure about the whole situation. $60/wk won't help her much. Not blaming the problems on me or trying to pick a fight just to make me a bad guy. Still lying to OM to spend time with me. Yep all in all a pretty good day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TMCM, I just noticed you changed your sig. Now I got to copy and print those too. I love them and so does WW. Sorry but I don't give you credit for them just tell her found them on internet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

TMCM 2old, Thanks for the suggestions I will try to do it that way.

Went rumaging on Sat. Had a pretty good time but none of it alone. Brother and both DD's came along. We had to go in WS car(that was a tight fit)When I asked why she said because she hadn't told OM she was going with me and he would check the milage.

Dropped off kids Sat night, I checked the room and didn't see anything that the kids would know was his so I let them stay. I caution WS to be carefull what she says during any phonecalls with OM. She promises to be carefull.

Sun I'm supposed to pick them up at noon to go to airshow. WS shows up at 10am at my house. OM has came back early. He called from a resturaunt so she could get the kids out of the room. WS can't go to airshow now, I ask if there were any conversations with the kids I need to know about, WS says no, so I take the kids and we have a great time.

Sun 7PM I'm walking alone with oldest D (12)when she asks me "Dad, did you know mom is cheating on you and having an affair with Donald." I admit I do and ask how she knows. Seems there was a stuffed animal in the room that said "OM loves WS" and she found it Sat night. WS has her put it up and tells her not to tell others. Then Sun AM when OM called DD heard her tell him she loved him too.

DD put it all together and informed me about the whole thing including... that OM was the 1 who had called all those times, that OM was why mommy had left us all, that if DD was me she would not take WS back, her mom had been lying to all of us for a long time.

We talked a long time and she seems ok, just mad at her mom.

Mon. DD refuses to go to visitation. I tell WS why and she seems shook up but who knows. DD says she might go Wed. WS and I agree that I will not make her if she doesn't want to go.

Maybe the fog will clear a little now. I hope so I just wish DD didn't have to find out though.

That post got so long I forgot I had a question. During the visit today WS said she would prob need help moving. I am in "A" and want to help, told her I would. But, if OM is there should I refuse? I really don't want to see them together and I sure don't want to help him move. What can I do to make that known without it becoming a huge MB?

Hurting one of the moral values I hold myself and my loved ones to observe is to always keep the promises that we make to ourselves and to others. So if I was in your shoes I'd keep my promise to help her EVEN if the OM shows up. In fact if he does show up it can work in your favor because your presence may have an irritating effect on him in that your WW had to ask you and rely on you for help instead of him. So your unselfish act may have the effect of stirring a hornets nest with your WW and OM (can you say love buster?).

<small>[ June 24, 2003, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: hurting12 ]</small>

hurting,

I just have to say that I am very impressed with you and how you are handling your situation....much respect. Others will learn a lot from you. I don't have much to add, I just wanted to let you know that.

God Bless