My only concern Gazz, and I'm sure it's yours too....is that the cousin is still so ill. But in his wife's shoes, I would want to know....because if your wife is somehow romantically involved with this cousin...it's a terrible sin to pass herself off as an angel of mercy. I'm worried about the wife's state of mind....and you can be sure, that this exposure will initially make your wife madder than heck. I think it will also force her to look at the havoc she has wreaked...and that is the purpose. It won't help at first, it will seem like a huge mistake, but it isn't.

Please be sure that the wife is as prepared as she can be for this double blow. She is the innocent here, and any worries I have revolve around her. What is the condition of the cousin? Is he out of ICU?.....does it look like he will recover fully? Has your wife ever admitted she has feelings for this man? That's my other worry. I want you to be sure about her involvement before you expose the A so that your wife can't lie her way out of it. She has no business comforting his wife though, if she is trying to steal her husband.

<small>[ June 21, 2003, 10:53 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Star! I have no real idea about the extent of invovlement here between my wife and her cousin, but i did get hold of her cousins wife and she has agreed to meet with me, I asked that she not tell my wife ( I hope that was a good idea.) and she agreed to that also. The only thing I can tell her is the facts as I know them and let her weigh what I have to say and see if it is of any value. The cousin as I know it is out of icu and is preparing for rehab, no one knows if he will recover 100% and it is probably unlikely, but should I let this hinder my grasp of the this ordeal? I don't know, I only hope GOD will guide me through this. If you think I should wait for a more opportune time I certainly will consider that. I'm unsure of what steps I should take and I don't know that a physical affair has taken place, what I do know is all her time and energy is directed at this man before and after the accident. Any other suggestions if I'm on the wrong path I would grateful.

Gazz,

You may have strong gut feelings about this, but without an admission or proof, it's a huge risk to take if you are incorrect. How certain do you feel about this? Why not confront your wife about it first? Ask her if it is really okay in the eyes of God for her to stand by the side of someone when she desires their husband? That's the confrontation I'd rather see you make right now until you have some kind of proof otherwise.

Star! If I ask my wife if she desires this guy can I expect an honest answer? I have no proof of any PA, she has told me there was none. I really do not know if approaching his wife is the prudent thing to do. I certainly will tell her that my wife has denied such and that I cannot and have no desire to prove otherwise, but none the less his appearence in my life has turned my marriage upside down, I will not lie or exaggerate any of the details to turn her against my wife. You said earlier on that you felt she needed to be aware of the situation, while I am making my own choices I am wondering if now you think I should reconsider? Do you believe I should approach this in some other way? I doubt I am likely to gain any more insight from my wife!

<small>[ June 21, 2003, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: Gazz12 ]</small>

Sorry, I'm not trying to confuse you....just talk this out with you. I had hoped you had more solid proof to go on....but I think if you are honest with his wife about your suspicions, and the problems it has caused in your marriage, that you are completely within your rights to do so. Let her know that you are uncomfortable with the amount of time they have spent together and that although you can't prove it, that you feel that their connection is unhealthy for both of your marriages. I would not want to be in the wife's place....I would want to know this and be able to protect my own marriage. She deserves that information. Your wife will only weaken her cousin's marriage and has no business being there if she has designs on this ladies husband.

Oh, and if you ask your wife....she may lie...and she may not. It depends on what her state of mind is. Many unfaithful spouses when confronted DO tell the truth...especially if they feel safe to do so and are not confronted by an angry spouse. I get the impression you don't think that will happen. It's still part of a Plan A...and a conversation you should also have.

Thanks Star! You clarified what you think, and I think what I am going to talk to Debra is her name, is pretty much under the guidelines which you have suggested, my uneasiness with their relationship and how it transpired to create the circumstances that it has. I hope not to skew the events in a way that portrays all invovled as guilty without any proof. I was and still am uneasy with the way my wife has attached herself to this man and now his wife. I can only hope that Debra is understanding to my point of view. As to how my wife will react, well I'll cross that bridge when the time comes. (If it does.) I really hope after our conversation that his wife will not relay that we had a conversation or any of it's content. I'm hoping that me and Debra can come to an appreciation of each other, that may be wishful thinking.

Gazz,

More likely than not, there is going to be a massive shock wave that moves through the whole congregation. It will more than likely end any affair, or even the possibility of an affair. You can expect your wife to be furious....that is unless Debra manages not to throw her out on her booty (which is what I'd do! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ). Tell her to just be aware and to pay attention...that you aren't leveling accusations, but you aren't paranoid either....you feel this for a reason. Be honest and see what she has to say. Your wife is acting very very foggy and has wormed her way into this woman's confidence. She may not believe you at first, but if she's smart...she'll open her eyes. Or she may have even already "felt" something a little bit unkosher already...and this may be a light bulb moment for her...there's no way to know. Please let me know what happens.

I guess after I went to bed last night my wife came home. ( I certainly wasn't expecting that.) So this morning she wakes me up and asks me why I hadn't gone away for the weekend. I left for the day and came back late, so I told her that my plans just didn't pan out. when I finally got up she then told me about her cousins condition, he is now out of icu and in rehab. He has not recovered all of his facalties, but that was expected. He is expected to go through 6 weeks of rehab and then I think he may return home. I'm sure there will be more rehab when he arrives home. After we talked she left for the hospital.

After a night's sleep I am still wondering about talking to Debra, I still plan on it but am still a little unsure as I do not wish to worsen things and have this completely backfire on me. I am questioning my motives constantly, and am trying to convince myself this is the right thing to do. I still lean towards talking to Debra as the right thing but am not 100% conviced. The knots in my stomach constantly keep me aware of this.
Thanks Star and everyone else, coming to MB'ers has helped me cope better with all of this.

Gazz,

I'm still kinda thinking there must be a way to approach this subject with your wife, so that you can have a clearer idea of where you stand and even whether you should talk to Debra. Without being accusatory, or LBing....could you say something along the lines of "XXXX, I'm not accusing you of anything, but it seems to me like your feelings for your cousin are all mixed up and you may have some romantic feelings for him. Can you talk to me about it?" I think if you make this non-threatening, she could break down or show some real signs that your suspicions are correct. I've been thinking about this situation too, and this accident is going to change the dynamics of stuff alot. With him being injured...it may even affect the way your wife feels about him....which could be good or bad.

I am talking to Debra just to tell her about the events and how they transpired. In no way do I plan on pointing an accusing finger at anyone. I am going to do everything within my power to be as gentle and act as a gentleman as I possibly can. I also hope that she may be able to shed a little light on this and voice her thought's.
I have no idea what Debra knows, but I have to believe that she is aware of what has been the end result. What she has been told and her view of everyone invovled is certainly unknown to me, maybe if I do a good enough job talking to her she will feel some confidence in opening up to me.

As for my wife, I lack the confidence that she would tell me if she is attracted to this man only because all her spare time is devoted to spending time at the hospital near him... and she may be afraid I would get in the way of that. or she may think it would give me an advantage. We do talk but nothing of any depth. It seems to me that she is unwilling to talk to me on any deep level at all, and she certainly hasn't given me any indication that the thought has crossed her mind. Infact my instinct tells me she is not ready for such conversation at least with me.

Gazz,

Perhaps Debra has seen enough of the interaction between your wife and her husband to be suspicious as well. I agree that she could be a good source of information for you since she has been there all of this time and has lots of the time to speak to your wife. She may even be able to give you some insight into what your wife is feeling about you. Tell her how hard you are trying to get your marriage back together. You must be on pins and needles. When is your meeting with Debra?

Debra asked me to call her when I leave work tomorrow, she led me to think that maybe then or tuesday. My wife goes back to work tomorrow and I leave an hr and a half to 2 hrs before my wife does so I hope that I get enough time to speak with Debra before my wife shows up. Maybe Debra will discourage my wife from visiting for the time she feels neeeds to be set aside for us to talk. And yes Star I am on pins and needles!

<small>[ June 22, 2003, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Gazz12 ]</small>

ya know Gazz,

I was thinking about how you can approach this subject with Debra....so that it can't come back to bite you in the @ss <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I think that if you just ask her if she has noticed anything unusual about the way WW and cousing are relating to eachother. If she says "No" or "why"...you could say..."Well, maybe I'm crazy, but this is what's been happening........and I just have this deep feeling in my gut that somethings not right. Wife and I have been having some problems, and I really want to work it out, so maybe she is clinging to cousin more than she should." Something like that. Show some vulnerability and uncertainty....because you are vulnerable and uncertain. Let her see that you just need someone who's been around them to help you feel more comfortable because you're trying to understand.

Thanks again Star!
That suggestion I may try to incorperate in my conversation with Debra. Since she has agreed to meet I have been constantly mulling over the things I should say to her. I really want to get this right so that she does not view me as anything but a man who is trying to do the decent thing for all invovled. It is easy to have the conversation on your own, but my credibility has to show itself when the real thing happens. I pray GOD will help me do this the way it should be done.

I think I need a little more advice, I tried calling Debra a few times today with no luck. But finally she called me and we made arrangements fo wednesday to talk. When we talked she asked me to meet her in the cafateria at the hospital, I told her that this conversation may be over in a half hour or it could possibly take 2 or 3 depending on how much she might want to contribute to this. She told me that she could not spare that much as she wanted to be present for Alan's rehab. I asked if Alan was up for any visitors and she replied no, my wife has told me that she thinks he is and so I am wondering if Debra has been influenced to the point that she does not believe my presence is benificial.
Before Alan showed his face in my life my wife went home to be present at her step fathers funeral and there was the first time she ran into Alan for the first time in 31 yrs. After that meeting is when I became aware of Alan as he started calling our house soon after, sometime staying on the phone for hrs. Their relationship grew over the phone before he came out. I could go into depth about his visit here but that would take too much time. But to make it all short when he arrived all of a sudden I became invisible in my own home. Now I am about to paste an e-mail on here that my wife wrote to Alan about a month before he came out here, I have been wondering if this letter should be presentd to Debra, I may be reading to much into this letter so I need an objective opinion!! This letter gives a little more info than I was willing to put forward about my wife, but maybe it will help in you assessing this mess.......................................

Dear Alan, It was really good to talk to you today. I really enjoy our talks. There is so much we have missed out on over these years by not being close like we are now finally. As i look back over my child hood I wish you could have been there for me. There were so many times I needed someone to talk to and there was no one there for me. If there is anything about me you want to know all you have to do is ask. You are so easy to talk to, that I feel I can tell you anything and you won't judge me. I have done a lot of things that I'm not proud of and even some that I'm ashamed of like being married 5 times. Hope this doesn't affect our friendship any and hope that you don't think any less of me. I guess that I just wasn't matured enough to be married and that they all cheated on me didn't help the situation any either. I can't have any children because I have a fibroid tumor on my uterus. The doctor said that it's nothing to worry about. He also said that because of my age he wouldn't recommend me having any. I was pregnant once but I had a miscarriage and the thought of trying again was just to painful for me. I hope our relationship grows from here. I am really looking forward to seeing you and just sitting down and talking to you face to face. I love hearing your voice over the phone and your laugh makes me smile. The one thing I really want from you is a big ole kiss! If that offends you I apologize for it. But please don't let that keep you from coming out here. I really want to spend some time with you and catch up on all the years that we missed. Love Wanda

One side note, not all cheated on her!!!! I have never cheated on her and if I remember her words right I don't believe her first husband did. I don't think my wife knows very much about computers so she probably doesn't know this mail stayed on.
I hope I am not revealing to much here but now I am unsure of myself and Debra's possible preconcieved ideas. I do not want to appear as someone who is less than honest.
It is also possible thad Debra may have read this letter before Alan's visit!

<small>[ June 23, 2003, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Gazz12 ]</small>

Gazz,

This letter, just like the rest of your story...has no HARD proof. Sure she's lying, and she's flirting too....not good signs...but not damning either. The letter sends up red flags...but it isn't damning enough to do much good.

If you want to meet Debra and go on a fishing expedition, then do so. Ask her if she's feeling the same way you are....but don't accuse anybody of anything. If she isn't feeling anything....try and just laugh it off as your own jealousy or something. No matter what....I promise you that it will plant the seed....and she will start paying closer attention. Just tread lightly.

Now Gazz!!! 5 TIMES!!!!! Your wife has been married 5 times? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> My Goodness friend, what makes you think she's learned anything about interpersonal relationships....she's alread proven 4 times already....that when things get tough...she leaves!!!!

Again, thanks Star!
Everything that has happened has left me up and down....not knowing what I should think or feel.
In one of our arguments lately I pointed out her innability to show any fortitude in taking and fighting for a marriage. "When the going get's tough, gotta go!" attitude that she has developed. And that this is the most likely the path that she will follow!!
Does revealing the amount of times she has been married play a part in how seriously I should fight? It is certainly a question that has sit before me numerous times lately. Wearing my thought's on my sleeve only to see her dismiss them as irrelavent is something I am trying hard to guard against! (maybe to hard.)
I am unsure of where and how much responsibilty I should take in saving this. I love her, but I am not blind either. I wonder how much responsability I have to save this marriage regardless of my emotions!!!

<small>[ June 23, 2003, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Gazz12 ]</small>

Finally had the meeting with Debra, it went pleasant enough but learned absolutely nothing. Told her everything that I was aware of and how I felt about my wife's conduct towards Alan, and I think she was a little sympathetic but she also told me that she knows Alan and felt confident no PA took place. I did get the feeling she was a little suprised at what I told her about my wife, but nothing concrete about what she thought.

So now at the moment it seems like I'm back to square one and just sit this one out and try to show the Mrs that I'm still not going to loose it over this situation. Carry on at least untill my patience wears out at this non existant partnership, hopefully that will last long enough for her to have a change of mind. Considering her track record though I'm not holding my breath.

<small>[ June 25, 2003, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: Gazz12 ]</small>

Now it seems like I'm stating to feel cold to all that has gone on. The civility between us is still there but there is no mistaking the distance.
Last night my wife kept prodding me about the insurance money for my motorbike and she knew more than I was telling her. I was fairly quick on my toes about explaining what I wanted her to know but the idea that she cares so little about more important issues started to stick in my craw!! The bike is 16 yrs old so I will not be getting very much from the ins, and the money I was planning on keeping as a little back up for obligations as I see this all going nowhere. Her distance and do as I want attitude is starting to turn me against all of this..... sleeping in seperate rooms what little time she is here, very little talking, and what little is very distant on her part. I am running out of desire to keep trying and living under these conditions. Some may think I should wait longer but when all you see is a blank look staring back at you, I have no stomach for such.