Maybe I should just save this over in Word and then I can copy and paste it over and over and over....

Focus on YOU! You cannot read H's mind or truly know what his thoughts or intentions are. The only thing you can do is be the best you can be and set up boundries to protect yourself. Boundries have to be spoken, clear, and practiced consitantly through your actions.

If a student of yours told you on numerous occassions that he was contemplating suicide (in his age appropriate words, of course)... how would you be required to respond? As a teacher, adult, role model, etc... what is your role in a situation like that???

Those are rhetorical questions to me (although you may want to answer them on here).

If your H is contemplating suicide... and has told you this... then it is YOUR responsibility to do something about it. Even if you don't think he's serious... it's a pretty damn serious thing for him to say. Is he bluffing? Only he knows. But you have to do something about it.

But what?

I would think you should talk to your principal first. You mentioned yesterday that you already spoke to him of the situation your M is in... this IMO is another step.

Jen... if your H is serious... you are NOT THE ONLY ONE that would be affected by this!!! If anything... just think about his students!!! From someone who has considered suicide for real (yes, I did)... I can assure you that this depressed and negative attitude spills over into every other aspect of life!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Besides... how would you feel, if you were to find out that he went through with it? And that you knew that he might, but did nothing about it?

One of the things I learned how to do from MB, was to live my life so that I did NOT have any regrets. I now always do my best to do things in such a way, so that they won't come and bite me in the butt in the future. And it's a GREAT way to live. Knowing for a FACT that you've done everything you could possibly do, truly aids in finding inner peace.

Karen

I'll also add this story:

When I was contemplating suicide, I was in my (false) recovery with my H. I turned to him, and told him of my thoughts. And you know how he responded? He told me, "Well, I've thought about killing myself too you know! You're not the only one!". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

How sad that was! I turned to him for help and support... and all he could do was throw it back in my face! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Knowing that I couldn't rely on him, I turned to professionals on my own, and got the help I needed (I was put on Celexa, and used numerous online counselling and information sites on depression).

Of course, I shared this situation on here. And the wise MB angels (as I always call them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ), told me that the next time he says anything like that... that it is my responsibility to pick up the phone, and dial 911 a.s.a.p. If he needs help... I should take it seriously!!!

In my case... H only said it that once. I believe that he still feels suicidal and I KNOW he's sufferring from major depression... but there is no longer anything I can do to help him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

In your case... your H is still confiding in you (in a strange, sick and twisted way... but it's still happening). Help him while you still can.

Karen

Hi Jen,

I read your threads thoroughly but do not respond because you are getting such good responses from others. Just know I am thinking about you.

Brit's Brat/BS-42
WH-43
DS-19 months old
Status: WH has moved out of the house.

Jen, I don't have much to say but that I am sorry that things turned out the way they have.

In response to your H commenting about suicide I'm in agreement that a comment like that should never be taken lightly. People don't say that for attention. They say because they truly are considering it. Perhaps mention it to someone who loves your H (brother?) that you are concerned about his mental health. But do it in a non-manipulating way - say it only because you care what happens to your H.

Take care.

Jen,
I haven't posted in a long time. Just haven't been coming here much. I do read your thread though.

First, if your husband does talk of suicide, you need to get him help. I have lost a sibling to suicide, and previous to his time of being successful I'd had him committed due to his threats. If the person has a 'plan' on how to do it, they are probably more serious about it. Please, do something and don't take it as simple attention getting behavior.

Just a 'side story' on the subject. A week before my sibling took his own life, he'd told a co-worker he was depressed. The co-worker had him call her hubby, who was a therapist. These people had no idea of my brother's background or previous struggles. The therapist said to my brother, "When are you going to stop acting depressed in order to get attention?" I guess he stopped it after he ended his own life.

One more thing, Jen. Coffeeman brought this up to , but I have to concur with him. You said,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"So many people lurk on my thread and so few post."
------ </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please, now, really! Your post always gets so many responses. It's a bit disappointing for me at times in the past when I've posted, and I haven't had a response at all. I have to bump it up to get any response from people. However, I've found much help here, and I appreciate all of it. I always see your threads, full of action and replies. You get 15 replies to my one. I'm not saying it out of envy, but to have you say 'so few post' is clearly a funny way for you to look at it, from my point of view.

Take care,
and please like I said...get your husband the help he needs. Talk to his family about his threats, and get him help, as a group. A group of us had my sibling committed one time. Almost all people who commit suicide do threaten it in advance, and in this country 30,000 do it each year. I never thought my own brother would do it. He left behind a family. I think even if a suicide threat is just for 'attention', it is clearly an indication that he needs mental health services. I would certainly never threaten suicide, nor would anyone else who was in control of their emotions and sense of well-being. Your husband is not. His abuse of alcohol is, in fact, a form of slow suicide, isn't it? Just something to think about.

Take care,

H_P

Dear Jen:

I have followed what you are going through. You were looking for people who can understand your H. I can understand him to a certain degree.

I think you have realized long time ago that all this destructive behavior from his side is a result of your hurting him with the A with his friend. It seems to me that he is pushing you away only to test you, to have you come back to him begging for his love. Your talk about divorce is showing him now that you are not willing to try to prove your love to him any longer. He has his guard up, walls around him. He does not want to put himself in a position to be hurt by you again. At the same time by separating from you he is punishing you for your A. He is refusing to forgive you. He is ambivalent in his feelings towards you.

He needs to realize these reasons for his feelings. He needs help to overcome these intense feelings of hurt and anger, and then strengthen the feelings of the bond with you and his love for you. His talking about suicide shows that he is suffering so much from this ambivalence.

Jen, I can understand him. But I don't know how to help him. For me it worked to discuss these feelings here in the recovery forum and also with my H.

My H has sometimes asked me why I want to hear from him again and again and again that he loves me and wants to be with me. I told him that I had to hear it so many times to just start believing it again...

I wish you all the best, Jen. I hope your H can get out of this cycle of pain and anger and find his love and peace again.

I don't know what to do. Some say focus on me. Some say don't take his suicidal remarks lightly. I'm mad at myself for being so shocked or blase or whatever that I didn't give him my usual teacher who knows what suicide is response.

I kind of understand him, but don't know what to do for him, actually, I know I can't really do anything for him, he needs to make changes himself.

But I doubt he'll really ever come around.

But I've waited for so long.

But so many of my family and friends are urging me to move on, I'm so miserable whenever I interact with him.

Now I am worried that divorcing him, just filing for divorce against him, could push him over some sort of edge. Or does he just want me to think that so I won't file???

I'm confused. I care about him, but I feel hopeless about helping him or saving our marriage.

I don't know how to approach my meeting with my lawyer on Friday. For $250/hr I'd better figure it out fast.

So much for knowing what I want to do. Well, I want to divorce him and move on , but I don't want to hurt him any further.....

Jen

So much for knowing what I want to do. Well, I want to divorce him and move on , but I don't want to hurt him any further.....

I think that is the same answer twice. You put the word "but" in there but I don't think it is necessary. You know what you want and after a year, he hasn't expressed that he wants any differently.

Well whack me with a 2x4 if you like.

He called tonight and I answered. His intent was to invite me over for the night. I said no. We talked quite a bit though. Where we're at is the only way he's comfortable building this relationship is through me coming over when he wants to spend the night, so he can "reconnect" to me as he said. The only way I 'm comfortable building this relationship is if we can spend some quiet time together in a non-sexual way. So we're both stuck. We both acknowledged that we care about each other and would like to try making this work, but neither of us is comfortable with the other person's conditions.

I got to talk to him about the suicide remarks and he brushed it off like he wasn't contemplating it really. I got to tell him my understanding of why he is afraid to get close to people for fear of abandonment. He tried to say so then why don't I keep that in mind when he invites me over and be nice enough to go over there when he gets the nerve to reach out to me.

Again he said, as he so often does, someone whoever is giving you advice is giving you the wrong advice. That if I keep following it I'll end up divorced.

I also told him that I had tried the sleepovers thing for a couple of months and things didn't exactly progress, they stayed the same, so why go back to that? He thought it had only been a couple of weeks.

He said he won't be calling me many more times to ask me to come over. He asked me if I thought he would just keep calling and I told him I realized I guess he wouldn't.

I tried to ask him what he was doing Friday, thinking we could hang out, but he's going camping for the 4th weekend in a row, and he wants to (and feels he deserves to) call all the shots.

By the end of our conversation tonight, he was remarking that I cared more about him and I told him I thought he was wrong, that we cared for each other about the same and he got mad and hung up.

So although many of you here would have me never answer his calls, I think we made some important realizations tonight.

Thing is, I don't know what to do if I'm not up for secret sexual rendez-vous, and he's not up for non-sexual social time together.

I have this rediculous little demon on one should that keeps telling me to go ask his mom what she thinks b/c she spends so much time with him, but the angel on my other shoulder is screaming "BAD IDEA."

Oh, he also said in there somewhere if I write up the divorce papers he will sign them.

This is nuts. We both acknowledge that we both care about each other and would like to try at this (a major step forward) and yet we still can't get much further than that so he cries divorce again.

I guess what I'm wondering is:

a) am I not right that it's major progress that we both acknowledged we want to work at this? (he's never said that before) AND
b)what do we do, if what he wants is sex and sleepovers, and I want to spend time together doing other things, and neither of us is comfortable with the other's request??

If you're sick of me and think I'm still just acting in a habitual cycle, I am sorry. I for one am glad we talked about all that we talked about tonight. It's one more night of doing all that I (we) can do to save this M.

Jen

<small>[ June 05, 2003, 01:38 AM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

Jen Brown: Well whack me with a 2x4 if you like.

He called tonight and I answered. His intent was to invite me over for the night. I said no. We talked quite a bit though. Where we're at is the only way he's comfortable building this relationship is through me coming over when he wants to spend the night, so he can "reconnect" to me as he said. The only way I 'm comfortable building this relationship is if we can spend some quiet time together in a non-sexual way. So we're both stuck. We both acknowledged that we care about each other and would like to try making this work, but neither of us is comfortable with the other person's conditions.

Orchid: Those are your observations & conclusions and you are probably correct. Now telling him this stuff may not be helpful....right now. Just file this info away for use at a better time.

Jen: I got to talk to him about the suicide remarks and he brushed it off like he wasn't contemplating it really. I got to tell him my understanding of why he is afraid to get close to people for fear of abandonment. He tried to say so then why don't I keep that in mind when he invites me over and be nice enough to go over there when he gets the nerve to reach out to me.


Orchid: See how he counters what you say and twists it back to what he wants?

Jen: Again he said, as he so often does, someone whoever is giving you advice is giving you the wrong advice. That if I keep following it I'll end up divorced.

Orchid: Babble. Setting you up so that no matter what you or he does, it will be your fault and MB's fault. Figure out how to retort and give him back his babble.

Jen: I also told him that I had tried the sleepovers thing for a couple of months and things didn't exactly progress, they stayed the same, so why go back to that? He thought it had only been a couple of weeks.

Orchid: Ok, he appeared to be able to process that piece of info.

Jen: He said he won't be calling me many more times to ask me to come over. He asked me if I thought he would just keep calling and I told him I realized I guess he wouldn't.

Orchid: He is baiting you with guilt.

Jen: I tried to ask him what he was doing Friday, thinking we could hang out, but he's going camping for the 4th weekend in a row, and he wants to (and feels he deserves to) call all the shots.

Orchid: He knows you would ask like you did and so he is now showing he is in control by NOT taking you up on that invitation. Why not learn how to ask without directly asking? Lead him to ask. Remember you want to have social time he wants bed time...... It is hard but I think you can do it.

Jen: By the end of our conversation tonight, he was remarking that I cared more about him and I told him I thought he was wrong, that we cared for each other about the same and he got mad and hung up.

Orchid: This is the time NOT to teach him or set him straight......remember his logic span is short.....very short. Don't try to reason with him or correct every word or statement.

Jen: So although many of you here would have me never answer his calls, I think we made some important realizations tonight.

Orchid: Ok Jen, I am going to be blunt here, so if you don't like this....close your ears and eyes.... I don't think you progressed any more than before. The steps forward were accompanied by more backwards. See he is very sensative to your push for commitment at any level and on anything. He is just not able to do so....yet.
You need to create a vision of distance. Illusion of wonderment. Helps keep his mind busy and less time for him to come up with those wacky statements.

Jen: Thing is, I don't know what to do if I'm not up for secret sexual rendez-vous, and he's not up for non-sexual social time together.

Orchid: Don't think tooo hard..... briefly let him know your observation but don't offer a reason..... ask him if he can think of one. Even if it means you don't find out for 2 weeks..... some WS just need time.

Jen: I have this rediculous little demon on one should that keeps telling me to go ask his mom what she thinks b/c she spends so much time with him, but the angel on my other shoulder is screaming "BAD IDEA."

Orchid: right now???? bad idea.

Jen: Oh, he also said in there somewhere if I write up the divorce papers he will sign them.

Orchid: He is baiting you again. If you can, let him know 'casually the status of the D.

Jen: This is nuts. We both acknowledge that we both care about each other and would like to try at this (a major step forward) and yet we still can't get much further than that so he cries divorce again.

Orchid: Encourage him to find a project to finish and finish it.

Jen: I guess what I'm wondering is:

a) am I not right that it's major progress that we both acknowledged we want to work at this? (he's never said that before) AND
b)what do we do, if what he wants is sex and sleepovers, and I want to spend time together doing other things, and neither of us is comfortable with the other's request??

Orchid: a). Too much backsliding to make the progress noticeable.
b). You 2 have to come to a compromise.
1st he needs to pove he can
contribute to the family stability
by working.


JMHO,
L.

<small>[ June 05, 2003, 02:11 AM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Jen,

I took a long time to reply last night, and I told you of my horrible experience with my sibling's suicide. It isn't an easy thing to sit and write about, but I did it out of concern for you and your husband--whom you still love. You didn't comment on any of what I said, but that's okay. I don't think you wanted to hear what I had to say. Maybe, on the other hand, you missed reading the post.

Isn't it much more interesting to focus on the drama of your 'love', and all the phone calls back and forth, etc, instead of on the thought that he needs mental health help? I'm saying this not to be hurtful, but to be as honest with you as I need to be.

You now tell us that your husband wasn't 'seriously' contemplating suicide. BTW, my brother said the same thing. To me, anyone who threatens that sort of thing needs SERIOUS help. Perhaps he WASN't serious, but as I said before, the issue still needs addressing. People who make suicide threats for attention or shock value need mental health help. You can't help him with that, only a professional can.

I'm not saying these things to upset you, or be cruel. It's just the truth as I see it. You've mentioned his drinking problem over and over. That only heightens the chance that he could harm himself. And, as I said before- alchohol abuse is a form of slow suicide and at the least you certainly recognize it as self-destructive. He's already showed you that, and threats on top of it? You seemed ready to brush off the threats, like he'd not even said them, and they meant nothing. He needs help, bottom line.

Finally, I agree with Orchid who said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Ok Jen, I am going to be blunt here, so if you don't like this....close your ears and eyes.... I don't think you progressed any more than before. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orchid is right. You haven't made progress. And in the case of my last post, you did close your eyes and ears--from my point of view. We all do that from time to time, but maybe you're doing it a bit too much now? Just a thought. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care Jen. Please, think about what I've said.
It's all said in the spirit of caring and concern.

H_P

<small>[ June 05, 2003, 08:28 AM: Message edited by: hopeful_person ]</small>

Jen-

Listen to H_P she's been there. Guess what, so have I. Do not dismiss his comments.

If you do nothing more than sit with his mother and discuss your concerns for him with her, then you've done your part. You can explain your position, you fears, and ask HER to help decide what to do.

Maybe she can talk with him, and not bring you into it at all...

My biggest pain through this whole mess was that I cried for help several times and not ONE single person bothered to lift a finger. Instead, I was forgotten about. Everyone went into denial. I was told that I was too sensititve and that everything was in my head....Jen, I was 30 seconds from driving into the river one day when my phone rang. It was a friend checking to see how I was....that friend saved my life. I will always cherish the fact that a call was made at the right time.

As far as being "STUCK" and in a tug-of-war....drop the rope. Ask your H to go to counseling one more time....if not... then let go.

JMHO

hopeful_person,

I did read your post. It hit home with me. I apologize for not directly responding to it when I last posted. I was fixated on the content of our phone conversation.

Your post was on my mind all day yesterday, and I was struggling to figure out what to do. It will pi$$ him off big time if I go to his family, but I see how it's likely needed. The last time he was a big mess, drinking and phoning me, and acting very depressed and I phoned his brother to go check on him b/c he seemed to be drinking himself to oblivion, he acted completely normal when his brother called and so his brother thought I was off my rocker.

I've gone through the suicide of a student, albeit one I had barely gotten to know, but it still affected me. Whenever a student approaches me with remarks about suicide, I take them very seriously, and immediately refer the student for counselling. I feel really rotten about how I responded (or rather didn't respond) when my H mentioned that, especially considering my usual professional response.

Early on in our separation when I was a depressed basket case, crying all the time, he kept asking me, "You're not going to off yourself are you? Because that's the last thing I need." (Gee, what a nice guy, eh?) I told him no I wouldn't do that, that it was the most selfish thing in the world anyone could do, and didn't solve much of anything, it just created a lot more pain for everyone else around you. I honestly feel that way.

Last night he brushed it off like he didn't really mean it when he said it, and also did his usual "I don't want to think about that, I just don't like thinking," remark when I tried to press the issue. He also changed the subject, Mr. Master Manipulator.

I do see how his drinking could be a form of slow suicide. To an extent now I wonder if he does drink every day, or just whenever he has to interact with me, but I still think it's a problem overall for him, it is to excess.

And about Orchid's comment: Too much backsliding to make the progress noticeable. Well, that saddens me. I guess I still don't know how to see the trees for the forest.

kily, yes, I do think I'll just have to go and chat with his mom this weekend, or I won't be able to live with myself. Thank God your friend called you when they did Kily. You are such a valuable person.

Last night I almost asked him actually, look, are you willing to go for counselling or not? Because I think it's the only chance we have for saving this marriage. But I guess I chickened out and didn't ask because I figured he would laugh and say no way, and repeat how perfect he thinks he is etc.

My only fear with going to see his mom is that I'll be tempted to tell her EXACTLY how things are going (he wants sex or no contact), not just about how worried I am about him. It's wrong to make a man look bad in his mother's eyes, she should be fully supportive of him I figure. The last couple of times I spoke with her, she was on my side (thought my requests for contact etc were reasonable), and kind of told him that too. Boy did it make him mad.

Sigh, time to go to work.

Thanks for your help ladies.

Jen

I don't think that there was no progress. I see him giving you lots of information. He's being honest with you about where he's at with all of this. He's becoming more and more indifferent,(see his example in the comment about signing papers if you had them for him to sign)and if you're even the least bit unsure about a divorce, that's one important piece of info, even though you don't want to hear it or don't like the other options right at the moment, you really need to hear what he's saying about feeling indifferent, especially IF you have any desire left to salvage things. I hear him saying he would like that but he doesn't know how to do it. It might help if you two had some more talks and made some attempt to use POJA to come up with a solution/plan for rebuilding that is comfortable for you both. Realistically, that will require give and take on both parts. I think that if you can bring that point up for his consideration in a non LB way then maybe you might see some more forward progress. If you can get him to see that if the marriage is to succeed in anything there has to be give and take. Get him to the point where he can admit that in any successful marriage there has to be negotiation. Baby steps, baby steps.

Why is a year so long? Why do you feel like you've waited sooo long? If your H had an A with your best friend and your mom died would you want him to give up on you in 12 months? Would you not want him to be flexible with you over what you could and could not handle at any given time. You would think he was cold and uncaring if he wasn't. In the lifetime of a marriage, a year is nothing! If my own WS had given up on my recovery in 12 months, we wouldn't have all that we have now...the marriage we both wanted all along. It takes a long time to get over a betrayal and your H experienced 2 because he lost his best friend too and then lost his dad. You want him to pull it all together because your think you've waited sooo long. It's not long at all. Why are you willing to give up on him, after he's been through so much after only 12 months? If he and the marriage are as important as I sense they are to you, have patience Jen. Patience and some talks where H can talk about how he feels and have you just listen to him and not argue or try to "correct" his point of view. You can offer him your perception of things and then you both can agree to disagree. The advantage of just having the discussion is huge even if you can't immediately come to an agreement. The discussion at least gives him something to think when you are gone and the reassurance "shows" him and reinforces your willingness. But you have to get to the point where he really sees you are wanting to hear him no matter how unpleasant it is, or no matter how much you disagree with him. Don't argue or defend just listen and reassure him of your desire for things to be better. He's let you know loud and clear that he needs you to "show" him that you still want the marriage. It's your job to show him in a way he can "see" it while at the same time maintaining your integrity. You could ask him how you both could compromise on a plan to move closer together where it's win/win for both of you, this would be an important step first and foremost. You can do this. Negotiation..give and take. You might want to do it in a letter if you think a conversation could go sour. It won't be easy but you can do it! This marriage is not a lost cause.

<small>[ June 05, 2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: mthrrhbard ]</small>

Jen ~

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> was fixated on the content of our phone conversation.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Couple of thoughts after reading this thread.

You are not evne close to ready for divorce. Your motivation, as much as you protest, is simply manipulation. Otherwise, you wouldn't be so darn fixated on him, and fixated on the drama, and fixated on how to get control of the situation.

You certainly wouldn't be invitig him to hang out.

I notice that you didn't actually hire a lawyer (right?). You consulted with an attorney that encouraged you to wokr out an agreement together, and you grabbed that idea really fast, and went runnign to him - you couldn't wait to clobber him with your new tactic!

None of your recent actions are consistent with a woman who truely is ready to divorce and is taking care of herself.

And really, you ignore almost all of the good advice you are ever given by numerous experienced MBers, unless you can twist it into more manipulation and control.

Jen...YOU need help. Go to Al-Anon!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We are already legally separated. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmm makes me wonder. Different laws aside are you legally seperated in terms of finances? By does your laws specify that debts and liabilities are not shared unless you are both under the same roof? I would think it would require some formal paper for that after all how would creditors deal with married debtors if not?

I think something formal and legally filed is way past due.

Jen I ponder this from personal experience. I watched my sister in law and her ex go thru alot of what you are going thru (don't know about the affair part). They both "threatened" each other with a divorce neither wanted at the time and wound up having to call each other's bluff. Now they REALLY hate each other and their young son is caught in the middle of it.

Have no clue as how to advise you. I think a legal seperation posted at the courthouse would be prudent.

You have to make the final call as to whether he truly hates you at this point or is still raging over the affair. Without a willingness on his part to seek professional help for the marriage and his clearly abusive behavior I would hold out little hope...but a therapist my see just the opposite perhaps based on the fine line between love and hate.

Well, I found it interesting that mthrhbrd agreed with me on something (that there was some progress), but I do still tend to think this marriage is a lost cause.

Bramblerose, I am sorry that you feel I tend to ignore most of the good advice, and that I really have my own issues with control and manipulation. I do appreciate the time people take to try to give me advice even if it seems like I don't know how to take it.

s_d: I hold out little hope too. Talked to him again tonight, asked him about going for counselling either together or just for himself, he still refuses.

A good friend of his brother's was in a bad accident today and is in critical condition in the hospital. My H's reaction to it was one that just amazed me, a great deal of anger, because that guy was so selfish as to get himself into this mess so now my H's mom will likely get all wrapped up in worrying about this young man, as she's almost like a second mom to him. He also went off on a bunch of other things about this guy that he doesn't like, etc. An odd reaction I thought and I told him so. He went right back to asking me about sex and if I'd come over, etc. after we discussed this friend. I said no. He tried calling again and again, I didn't answer. If he's not willing to go for counselling, this isn't going to work. If he can't have care and concern for someone who is in hospital and lucky to be alive without having selfish and angry thoughts, I don't want to be with him.

I also got confirmation tonight that he's been taking bimbo #2 camping with him the past few weekends, no wonder he flipped out when I asked if he'd been with another woman.

He's just hoping to play me for a few final sexual flings before we divorce, as I figured.

Tomorrow when I meet with my lawyer (who incidentally is officially hired when I see her tomorrow, that's when I start paying), I am going to weigh out my options for how and when to file for divorce. I just need to decide if I stick to what my H and I originally agreed to in our homemade separation agreement (cut my losses and get out basically), or if it's worth it to start a legal war to get my fair share of things. If it's just a few thousand more, it's not worth it b/c the legal fees will catch up quick to it.

Sorry that perhaps I seem to not heed your valuable, thoughtful and well-meaning advice folks. Sometimes I guess people just need to learn things the hard way.

Jen

Jen:

Dont't beat yourself up. We ALL need 2 learn our own lessons. This site can give us ideas, but we have 2 choose which 2 implement.

take care,
-2long

Jen, I thought for a change I'd leave my opinions and thoughts out of it and just give you some support. I know you're frustrated, confused and tired of the whole mess. Just hang in there and do what you have to do. Things will get better, no matter what the outcome. Take care!