2 pieces of news -

1)
I found a flat! Signed the lease yesterday, great place, great location. I'm really anxious and excited. Tomorrow I'll move. So I'm finally doing it. Can't believe it myself. The place is really, really
nice, a roomy one bed, modern but cozy, I can really imagine myself living there.

2)
Came home tonight from work.... to see that WW is gone!! She left me a brief note saying that she is “away for a few days”, that's it. From snooping I know she is with her male musician friend (OM #2?? WTF!!) in Switzerland. That guy is divorced, has a daughter and is about 10 years her senior. Never met him, but sounds yuk. It looks like she is beleaguering him and really pushing it - from what I can tell, the relationship is totally one-sided and initiated and driven by her. My lovely wife is again on a mission, with a capital M. Again, it’s all about “getting energized”, “feel being loved”, “feel being understood”. Certainly EA, if not PA. Whatever! Only a few days ago she wrote me a teary email saying that she needs more money (apart from living for free in our house, having the car and getting a grand per month tax free to blow plus ample child support plus me paying the school fees) and accusing me of bullying her financially and being mean. And the next day, Madame leaves the house to fly on vacation to see OM#2...... well – I'm speachless.
She can be so lovely, nice, supportive, understanding.... but then again, she can be so mean, hurting and obsessive.

Plan B letter is drafted in its umpteenth version – will post it soon.

Update to follow, once I've settled down in the new place.

<small>[ June 09, 2003, 04:28 AM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>

Sorry for the outrageously long post - but below is my plan B letter. Any feedback appreciated.

***

This is maybe the most difficult letter I’ve ever written. I know that I have contributed to the situation we are in, and that I made mistakes. Some things I certainly would do differently today, and I’m really ashamed of some things I did or said. That’s part of growing and learning I guess. I was (and still am) hard headed. Sometimes I’m so self-secure and self-assured and convinced of myself that I cannot imagine that someone else possibly can do something better than me. Sometimes I’m inpatient. Sometimes, I find it difficult the show emotions (maybe from fear, being hurt?). And sometimes, I avoid conflicts. Nobody is perfect. Every human has mistakes, makes mistakes. Forgive me.

You asked me a while ago why I still wanted to be together with you. You know, you were my first love and still my only love, now and ever. Nobody knows you as good as I do. Nobody knows me as well as you do. Together, we have a wonderful daughter and as parents we’re both doing a fine job. What you did is horrible, but I don’t think that a marriage necessarily has to break apart and be destroyed because of that. To the contrary – it could be a key moment to think about and re-evaluate everything, about life and to discover what really matters in one’s life. In this sense, I could forgive you your affair (but a decision, to destroy the family is much more difficult to forgive). I have no doubts at all that we belong together, as a family, as husband and wife. Please believe me if I say that I really still love you strongly. My heart flutters and hurts when I don’t see you for some time, or, when I see you sleeping in your bed in the morning – you always look fantastic.

But all this doesn’t help. You need to be two in a relationship. But for 4 years now we are three. You long for warmth, love, recognition, understanding…. I have given you that, tried to give you that, over the last four years over and over again (and hoped to receive likewise) – but you didn’t see it, you didn’t want to see it, didn’t want to give, or rather: you couldn’t see it and couldn’t give, because you were receiving all this from another one. How many times was I rejected? My idea of an ideal relationship and family is the same as your’s – it’s about warmth, love, recognition and understanding. You know, it isn’t like all people in the West, my family and myself in particular, are all cold egoistic individualists. I hope you have seen in the last 12 years that I have a big heart. There are two categories of people – those who enjoy giving presents, and those you enjoy receiving presents. I definitely am of the first kind.

The last 18 months, since I’ve learnt about your affair, haven’t been easy, neither for you nor for me. I always hoped that you could decide for me, for the family, and break up all contact with the other one. Because only if there are two in our relationship, we can start solving any problem we may have. We can’t do this whilst we are three people in the relationship. You mentioned ‘unconditional love’ – you know, my love to you is unconditional, but my actions vis-à-vis you are conditional – conditional upon only having you and me in our marriage, and not another one too. You cannot reasonably expect me to tolerate this any longer. I simply cannot live together with you like this anymore.

But: I do believe in us. I want to live together with you like husband and wife, to share all the good things and bad. I want to be able to trust you, to share with you, to be loved by you, to be admired by you. I want to continue to travel the world with you, to watch movies and discuss about them, to eat hot curries and garlic with you, to organise invitations, to be jointly proud about our daughter, to pamper together our sweetheart….
But all this we cannot do as long as we are the three of us. I was afraid of this moment and told you many times – we can’t live together like this, our relationship will simply not have any chance at all. You know, I already tried to move out twice this year, and couldn’t as I suffered emotionally so much. Maybe because I know what it means if a family breaks up; maybe because I’m afraid to lose you forever; maybe because I was scared of what is to come. But this time it’s final - I move out and leave….

Please understand that I don’t want to see you or speak with you for the time being. Not in order to play silly games, but because of three specific reasons – one, there isn’t anything more to say as long as you can’t commit yourself to your family. Everything is said, you have decided for him. Two, because I’m only feeling hurt and rejected when I see you. I need to protect myself. And three, because I want to safeguard and protect my good, positive feelings I still have for you, not that they are destroyed and tainted further by arguing, blaming and yelling (by both of us!). Please respect my wish not to see and speak for the time being. Organisational things regarding Daugther (who picks her up when etc) we can sort out by short emails or SMS, or, through a neutral third person.

In case of an emergency regarding D, you can call me anytime of course.

I know you got a hard head. But trust me – my hand is outstretched and my heart is not closed. There is a way forward with me, with our family. If and when you decide for me, for our family, stop the contact with him for good and ask for my forgiveness, then we can see each other again.

In any case I want you to know that you are under no pressure at all, and that no one has the right to put you under pressure. If you want to move away, fine. If you want a divorce, then I will agree. I don’t want to repeat the mistakes of my parents, OK? For all money matters we shall respect the neutral law, without any negative emotions. In any case you will get enough to cover the basics (that’s what the law demands), so don’t be afraid.

From the bottom of my heart,

Nick123, your husband, your man.

Nick

my (as a newbie, so please allow for that!) thoughts would be:

1) Probably too long
2) Too accusatory/condemnatory in places

Have you looked at the sample plan B letters on this board?

S.

I like it, have you planned a time to give it to her? Are you planning to discuss it? Do you have a third person already picked out?

I have attempted a Plan B recently and found I was the weak one, I couldn't stand no contact. i should have spelled out how to proceed with no contact better (the mechanics) if not for her, then for me. Have a set of rules for myself.

I am trying to write down everthing I want to say to him, but know would be an LB. I don't give those to him. Have you thought about buying a stock of notebooks, or paper and start writing "The letters never to be sent"?

thanks salerio - you know, I really wanted to make it come from my heart, that's why it got a bit long. re-reading it I wouldnt know where to shorten it.... condemnatory? maybe. but you know, my WW never, ever said sorry what she did. actually, she never ever said sorry for anything she did. well, maybe once. OK, I'll re-read it and watch that.

StillMakingIt - she'll see the letter when she comes back and finds me gone. no, I wont discuss it- everything which needs to be said is said. Havent got the third person sorted yet. Your idea of a book of 'letter never sent' is great - you know, I use this forum a lot for that, ie to vent and share my thoughts! it really helps. At a certain point you realise that plan B is the only option, the only hope left. by being 'weak' as you wrote, you just keep on feeding their addiction and you're bound to be rejected & dissappointed over and over again. I understand you perfectly - I tried to leave twice, but at the end couldnt. this time I'm ready though.

Dear Nick,

I think it is a little too long and needs to be tightened and a little less repetitive. I think overall it is good.

I think you must set up the third person before you give her this letter. Are you emotionally ready for no contact? Think out HOW this is going to work before you give her the letter... so you don't backslide.... so you don't appear weak.

Congratulations on finding a flat that you like and can imagine living in! That sounds exciting! Keep yourself busy during the first few weeks after the move. It will be hard at first but you will be okay. Have you worked out visitation with your wife? That is VERY important! What specific arrangements have you made?

Your wife may be hurting financially- don't bail her out. That is a consequence of divorce- life may not be as cozy and comfy without her H, the major breadwinner at her side. How is she paying for her trip to see OM#2 anyway? Have you set up separate bank accounts yet?

If you haven't given her the Plan B letter yet, post here and I will give you specific editing suggestions.

I'm a planner, so if I had my Plan B to do over again I would have planned out almost everyminute the first few days or week. I falter the first week and started snooping. I fell back when I found him doing something with her. I confronted them both...maybe not a bad thing, we are talking again, but still keeping our distance.

What are your terms for reconciliation? Maybe add specifics. No more contacts with XOWs and current ones. Willingness to reconcile. Committment to the M. Those are the terms Harley says we should ask for...but how do you ask?
And does it open the situation up for the WS to manipulate the situation and pretend they're going along? Pardon the cynicism, this is my second recovery this year...

Hello Nick,

Please, please just tell her you don't want to be hurt, you don't want to talk to her and she has to make a decision. That's it.

You remind me of myself, when I drafted my first plan B letter. I was still afraid to hurt her feelings. I had changed it 5 times to fit into a half page before handing it. Today I wish it was even shorter.

This IS putting pressure on her. This IS an effort to show that you are strong and CAN go on without her. Your letter doesn't sound convincing IMO. From reading it I sence that you are not ready for her to say no. She has to get the message that any answer will satisfy you. Be it Yes or No.

I am not an expert in plan B letters, don't listen to me if you don't want to, but wait for "seniors" on this board and get their opinion before sending it.

BigStar

P.S.

My wife called me after 47 days in plan B to discuss our separation agreement. I was as calm as a rock, joked, ended the conversation first. Did not LB, was cheerful. She said she will get me the forms this week. Still waiting. She was as sweet as honey. Did not try to hurt me as before, did not act like she "knows it all". Asked if I could find someone to repair a dent in her car. I refused. Slept well.
This is what awaits you - peace and balance. Just don't give in. NC no matter what!!! It really helps.

Zhelaju udachi,

BigStar

<strong> Espoir </strong> – The logistics are nailed pretty much: The third person is set up (she’s my wife’s niece who is staying with us for the time being and who looks after our daughter). When my wife will come back from her vacation with OM#2 she’ll see my things are moved and she’ll see the letter. Yes, I am emotionally ready for no contact, no doubt about it this time. I’ll have daughter for the weekends typically. Yes, we got separate bank accounts now.
Financially, it’s not yet in a formal ‘deed of separation’ but we have written down an agreement to which she has (verbally) agreed. But even if it was a formal deed of separation, she could back-track anytime. The only sure-fire way is a divorce, which I don’t want yet. Anyway, the deal is that I’ll pay her 1k£ per month and she can stay for free at the house (but she has to pay the utilities). Also, I’ll pay £650 or so for child maintenance plus I pay for the private school on top of that. My wife’s maintenance will end in 2 years time (when she’s supposed to have a job). She still accuses me of being mean and blackmailing her financially, but, I think she got enough now. She paid for the trip to OM#2 herself (that is, I paid for it through the maintenance I pay her).

<strong> StillHereMakingIt </strong> Thanks for the suggestions - yes, will make a detailed plan over the coming month or so. Chances are that I’ll be quite busy anyway on my job and then I’d really like to have a weekend get away with an old mate of mine. That will help. My terms of reconciliation are stated in the letter: a) no contact with OMs b) a commitment to our marriage and c) asking forgiveness. The last point may sound silly, but you know what? My wife *never* *ever* apologised and continues to say she is right. I admit that I contributed but what she did is still wrong. I can and will forgive her, but first there needs to be an admission of fault on her part, no?

<strong> BigStar </strong> OK OK, the letter was too long, but so what. It came straight from the heart. It contains (maybe repeatedly!) my thoughts. And on one point you are wrong. You wrote “From reading it I sense that you are not ready for her to say no. She has to get the message that any answer will satisfy you. Be it Yes or No.”. Wrong. I AM READY TO MOVE ON. I don’t expect a “yes” or a “no” straight away, but the letter is to say that we are on a very slippery slope now where the next stage is DIVORCE unless she throws the hooks back in. Cant say anything on timelines, but if I am certain that I will be in a relationship in 6-12 months time – either the old one or a new one.

Moved all my stuff into my new flat over the weekend; couldn’t find a van, so had to do something like 5 trips with my (now: her) car, each time the car was fully loaded with books (I have a rather large library!). But on Sunday morning at about 4 o’clock it was done. Sunday afternoon, my daughter and I went shopping to stock up my place and I showed her the flat - she helped me to make the place looking nice.... such a sweet little girl. She takes it quite well but clearly stated several times that she doesn’t want me to move out (she told me that WW already told her that we’re separating “as we don’t like each other anymore”. I corrected her that I still liked WW). But she is looking forward to the ‘sleep-overs’ at my place. She said “it’s unfair that I, mum and my cousin can live together and you have to be alone”...
On Friday I told it all to my wife’s niece who is staying with us as an au-pair. I had to, because she is living with us and probably wondering why I am moving all my stuff. Also, I wanted to, because I she is grown up and deserves to know the truth. She was completely blown away – apparently, WW told her that I was looking for an apartment “closer to work, as we are living too far away”. Bollocks. I told her exactly why I am moving out. I’m not going to lie for WW just to keep up appearances. She has to accept responsibility for her actions. My family knows, many of my colleagues know, and soon her family will know too.

Yesterday night I spent my last (for the time being) night at “home”; this morning I brought D to school. This evening I’ll be returning to my new place. Later on today, WW will come home from her trip to OM#2 and find my things are gone, and the letter.

<small>[ June 09, 2003, 05:14 AM: Message edited by: Nick123 ]</small>

Nick-

It's good to see that you've found a place you feel comfortable with. You sound good so stay the course! Up until now, you've sheltered your W from the consequences of her A IMO. It'll be interesting to see how she deals with her new reality as things are bound to be alot different that she's imagined. Good luck to your family and I hope this turns out as you're hoping.

Well done Nick. I know how hard this is for you, but I hope you find a sense of peace now that has been missing from your life for a long time.

I agree with Litchfield, your W will now have to live with her actions and you shouldn't protect her anymore. Make sure everyone knows why you have moved out.

Take care of yourself and I wish you well in your new place.

Lisa

Litchfield, Lisa, thanks for the feeback.

You wrote: “It'll be interesting to see how she deals with her new reality as things are bound to be a lot different that she's imagined”.
I think things will not be too different for her, you know. She still lives in the same house. She still has our daughter (most of the time). She still doesn’t get any emotional support from me (before, she didn’t accept any, now I’m not giving any). She still doesn’t give any emotional support to me (before, she didn’t give any, not I’m not around). She still will call OM#1 everyday. She still will go and see OM#2 whenever she likes it. She will still give a damn about what I am thinking about it and do whatever, whenever she wants. She is still financially secure (a touch worse off, but pretty secure). So what’s the big deal? If you have been following my posts you see that she has gradually shut herself off. OK, thinking back the last couple of months, we DID have a few good moments together (like, watching a good film together, having a good meal, being with friends), and she’ll be missing these, but in the larger scheme of things I’m not sure if they’ll make such a big difference.

The only BIG difference is that I’m refusing now to keep it a secret and that gradually, everybody will know. And whilst I will admit responsibility for having contributed to the situation, I will not shy away from telling everybody who wants to know that she was fooling around since 1999 already. And that I’ve tried, tried and tried the last 15 months (and before!), and that I simply couldn’t take it anymore to live with a wife who doesn’t want to commit to our marriage.

Maybe I have been sticking it out for too long? Ideally, plan B should come in cold and hard after a nice and warm plan A. In our case I fear that instead to turn from black to white we were gradually going down the greyscales, each day slightly worse, so that the current state (no contact) will not come in as a bit shocker and eye-opener.

But anyhow. This is not about trying to influence her behaviour towards me anymore. This is about me deciding that I have quite enough and that I quit. This is about me saying that in this triangle I’m just not getting anything but hurt. This is about me who deserves to move on and find happiness.

And hey Lisa/Litchfield/Porsche, I forgot how nice the north of London feels like! (I pitched my tent in NW8).

Nick,

Just a question....but why did you wait until Plan B to let everyone know? That's the kind of exposure that really would have helped during Plan A to end the affair while the two of you were still together. No matter though....since it didn't play out that way. The problem now of course is that exposing during Plan B seems more like vengence. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't let others know...but I think that a for instance sending the email out to OM's address book might seem more vindictive now that you are leaving...not a reason for reconcilling but a way of getting back her. So use more caution and discretion I think about how you expose this. Make it natural. When people ask...by all means, tell them. It will get around quite nicely that way and you won't look like you're being ugly.

You're right of course. Why I waited? You know, in a sense I was ashamed of the whole thing too. Also, I thought that exposing it would rock the boat so much that it would actually decrease chances of recovery, not increase. Then finally, I already got used to it so much that I frankly didnt thought about it anymore, whether to tell everyone or not. Now, I simply stopped caring and also people will want to know why I am moving out.
But you're spot on that it doesnt help to appear vengeful. Whilst revenge would give me a certain amount of satisfaction, in the end it's not helpful

BTW - how come you got notched up > 5000 posts having the same join date as I do?? did you hack the counter or what.

Nick,

LOL well I'm not usually on this part of the board but am a regular fixture on the EN board. My kids say "I live here". I'm a fast typist??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm a bit ashamed to say the the counter is correct. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> Also alot of people ask for my advice and I try hard to give it....and of course some of those numbers are merely wise cracks!

Seriously though....the point of exposure during Plan A....and it is an important part...is logically as you can see that while you are in the midst of being a kind and loving husband, no one can blame you for wanting to do all possible to end the affair and exposure is quite justified. There isn't the confusion that exists in B for people to think "Well, now that he's leaving he wants to 'stick it to her'".

As I said, that doesn't mean you can't tell others....you should. I can imagine that it was a source of embarassment for you before, but it means that now you should probably handle it with a bit more care. Of course people will ask....and if they do...be honest. I would caution you about talking ugly about your wife...simply state the facts, with as much class as possible. Remember you still want to be the an attractive alternative to these affairs because the goal I'm assuming is still to get your wife back. Good luck to you nick.

Nick

I remember thinking that H had not been meeting many of my ENs - sure he had been round about, always at the end of the phone, but one of the problems that had started us down the slippery slope was that he really wasn't here, physically or emotionally. I thought I could cope without him easily.

The reality of the first few months was very different believe me, and your W will find it very different too. You are however right about this being about you know, taking care of you and your D.

Wishing you luck for your first night tonight, and yes, north London ain't all bad mate!

Lisa

Hi Nick,

Welcome to separation. WH and I are now separated 7 days. I would post more about my situation and my thoughts with regard to yours, but WH has threatened to use everything I have posted on MB over the last year to fuel a libel and slander lawsuit against me. Obviously, as a lawyer, I realize there are very good procedural and substantive defenses to such an action, but I don't need any more headaches from him.

Know that I am thinking about you and hoping for the best - for both of us.

Regards,

BB

<small>[ June 09, 2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Brit's Brat ]</small>

Respect, respect <strong> Starfish </strong> ! No need to be ashamed, in the contrary! Looks like you’re giving lots of people advice, and in my case it has been spot on so far. Thanks! Dont have broadband internet access in the new place (yet?), so my contributions will go back a bit and only limit themselves to “working” hours. Having said that, I always do MB at “work”, and at home I mostly did/do other things anyway. Thanks god for the internet, possibly the greatest employee time wasting tool, he he!
<strong> I thought I could cope without him easily </strong>: I’m sure that’s what my wife is thinking now. And that’s what I am thinking too now, Lisa....
Maybe my WW is reading (again) on MB here, if she does, I don’t mind, however, I possibly would have to review my contributions in the light of not being in contact with her (I mean, posting & reading is also a form of communication, is it not?) Libel etc? I think there isn’t any ground, <strong> brit brat </strong> as it’s all anonymous, is it not. PS – could always email if you want. Still got mine? How did your separation happen? How did you arrange for visitation rights for your daughter, the finances etc?

WW just called (twice) – sounded stressed. Gave me a kicking why I didn’t tell daughter’s teachers, that I should have told them this morning, why I didn’t waited to tell daughter together (Duh! She already told daughter that we are separating before me!), etc why etc etc. The usual spiel of blame using our daughter as a vehicle. Answered her questions mono-syllabically and wished her a nice evening, and hung up.
WW is probably very worried of what daughter may have told at school – she is a big chatterbox!! I mean, if daughter goes around and tells everybody that I moved out and have my own place, that mommy doesn’t love daddy anymore, hey, she can, no worries. I’d only be concerned if my daughter would take it really badly – which she doesn’t. She’s upbeat and happy as ever – I’m definitely not falling for the old manipulation-through-daughter trick.