Okay I really need to vent it is 4:00am and I just packed WH things in two trash bags..that is all he deserves. I have been plan A'ing and have felt incredibly strong this week. I think telling my parents last week has helped me immensely. I knew he was not coming home tonight and seeing OW for a fact. I acted normal this afternoon when he left for work. Even gave him the benefit of the doubt..WH talked to me about three times tonight and was still able to lie to me like it was nothing. Well I have had it. Tomorrow will be 4 months since D-day and I am not going to be treated like this anymore. I just dont understand him at all and very tired trying to figure him out. He is still going to IC and has for the past 3 months and we have started MC together. But he still sees no need to even try to NC with OW. I still dont know if this is the right step, but I do feel as though I can handle this. I havent cried in over a week about our situation, when I use to cry 2,3,4 times a day. I guess I have become numb. If anybody is on right now I need help!!!

L

just uggh ugghhh ughhh...

poor you....

I can only and always say that it is up to you to decide when you have had enough. That it is your line and limit and if you feel it is time then so be it...you get all the support you need.

I guess the question is...can you do it plan B style and send him off with a letter that speaks rationaly about this being his choice based on his actions.

Are you able to do this without a lot of emotional turmoil that will railroad the real issues of his continued betrayel...And I'm not even saying that you have to want to continue with him down the road...just hoping you have your ducks lined up enough face him so that any blame sent your way holds little to no value...

strength to you...
I think the one of hardest things in WS apparant attemtp to make the most irrational of things rational. the unacceptable acceptable...and that just messes with everyones head...

Godspeed in doing what you must do...
ARK

Ark,

Thanks for repling. Like I said I feel very strong right now and have a wonderful family. I basically wrote him a Plan B letter back on May 9, 2003. I simply stated that I was sorry for anything I had done in our marrige that created an environment that led to him having an A. I also want on to say I was fully committed to him and our M together. Then I went on to tell him I need to preserve the love I still feel for him and felt I could not do that while he was living here and still in contact with OW. It was the hardest letter I have ever written and came from the deepest part of my heart. He read it in the afternoon and hugged after he read it. But he never really responded to it. Well wait I take that back..that night he went away with OW for the weekend to attend a wedding. So you see I feel this is the next logical step. Correct me if I am wrong.

not me buddy...can't correct you and tell you you're wrong...

ha ha wouldn't it be ironic to be wrong (or even told you were wrong) in the face of his continualed deceptions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You sound strong...and you know inside when you have had enough...and when living with out being witness to all this chaos and pain out weighs continually having it in your face...

Any sardines to put somewhere in the middle of one of those garbage bag??
or spilling somethings sticky on them...

oh crap this is the type of stuff that just feeds the self serving victimized "i don't know what kind of women and men" over at those other woman boards..isn't it...??

but one can always FANTASIZE about using that toothbrush of his just once to clean something that was never meant to be cleaned by a toothbrush <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

blessings lisa...i'm on my way to work but will catch up with you in an hour or so...
be strong
seek peace.
ARK

Thanks Ark

Talk to you soon!!! I am getting that toothbrush right now!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

{{{{{{{{LISA}}}}}}}}}}}}]
Personally I think you did the right thing. Obviously you have reached a level now where you are strong enough to go to plan b and will no longer tolerate his treatment of you. Good on you!! My wishes and prayers will be with you and also with your H that he will relise what he is losing...........

From What Are Plan A and Plan B? by Dr Willard Harley:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"While I have seen remarkable success by people using plan A and plan B, success is by no means guaranteed. The problem with Plan B is that the unfaithful spouse may not return, nor agree to the plan for recovery, even after the affair has ended. Separation in marriage is always risky because, "out of sight, out of mind." Unless plan A leaves the wayward s pouse with the impression that returning home is an attractive choice, separation can become permanent. So before implementing plan B, you want to be sure that the last thing your spouse remembers about you is the care and thoughtfulness you offered in plan A. That way, the separation can help create, "absence makes the heart grow fonder."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kicking him out and putting all his belongings in a trash bag is not my idea of making the last thing he remembers is your care and thoughtfulness. Sorry, I don't mean to be mean but if the goal is to save your M, then why on Earth would he want to come back to you after that? It will only reinforce his beleif that you were being a phony while you were in Plan A, and that your true colors have finally come out. But if you don't beleive me, go check out ALostSoul's thread The Continuing Saga Of ALS... to see for yourself how well this same strategy worked for him with his WW.

Lisa, a BS that doesn't have children with the WS (I'm assuming this is also your case) has a greater chance of her/his M's ending in divorce because the WS does not have another compeling reason to come back and work on rebuilding the M. It may not be too late to salvage your Plan A efforts before you go to Plan B if you calmly talk with your H and apologize for your behavior (even though morally he does deserves it). Here's another quote from Dr Harley:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ June 14, 2003, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

LISA , I am so sorry for what is happpening , and I am glad you posted right away . Week ends are so slow , glad to see ARK was on to jump in .

I know about being in that position and needing someone right away .

I agree with that you had enough , I explained that some point it will hit you between the eyes .

I hear what TMCM is saying , and although he has a point according to MB princeapals , it does not always go down like that when you have left ongiong contact for to long .

I feel it is alittle different living through it . PLEASE still have hope that your M can be saved and that your PLAN A is not ruined .

I did the same thing the first time through him out just like that . A bit risky yes , but he did come home I PLAN A while he was out , then went to PLAN B in full .

A bit back ward but there are plenty here whos WS , moved out and PLAN A before going FULL PLAN B .

READ the posts , I know your exact feeling last night all the anger of the disrespect and the lies right to your face I know looking at that clock and thinking HOW dare he do this . If he wants her then get out and have her . BUT don't think your sleeping here !!!!

I am not saying you did the right or wrong thing I am saying you are doing it for YOU .

The only thing if he is OUT , do not let him back with out a PLAN for recovery and bounderies .

AND of course N/C from OW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DO not except any CONTACT with terms of coming home NONE !!!!!! IT will lead to more PAIN . THAT is where my biggest screw up was .

I did not know MB then . WHEN he begged I took him back and he told me there maybe some CONTACT and that is what lead me down the road I was on for MONTHS now .

OK got to go post an update and never threaten unless you are going to DO IT > he will see it as a sign of weekness .

((((((((((hugs))))))))) BE STRONG , YOU are WORTH IT .

ARK SAID: I think that one of hardest things is WS apparant attempt to make the most irrational of things rational. the unacceptable acceptable...and that just messes with everyones head...

This is why I think your story sounds a lot like mine, so I don't know what to say to help you- because TMCM is right when it comes to the plans, but I think you and I have both had WH who have absolutely no remorse (GUILT, but not remorse or repentance)and who lie and lie and lie. I know this is common for a WS to do, but I have seen some WS who at least do something right. I don't think my WH ever did, and I am not sure yours has. I mean, I was nice but firm, and he kept lying anyway. I bought him gifts, called him just to chat, served him in different ways, and he just kept lying and cheating. I cried with him over past secrets and he just ran back to OW. I wrote him letters on how I was seeking help with my issues, how I know I messed up some, the lovebusters I committed, and he still ran back to OW. This is a OW that he doesn't even claim to like much anymore (at first it was true love you know). On the other hand, I caused 2 scenes in his work parking lot (one in Aug right after I found out, one in November), I screamed on the phone with him when I found out about more lies, and more betrayals, and he still ran back to OW. Nothing I did made a difference- I could have been Mother Teresa and he would have gone to OW. I could have been the monster of all monsters and he would have gone to OW. IT just didn't matter. Now for me it mattered. I am so embarrassed (well, sometimes I laugh) at the work scenes. And at some of the screaming fights- because I was fighting with someone who wasn't all there, and I looked like an idiot in the process. I wish I had kept my cool, and I am actually taking classes on letting go of anger and just trying to chill.
Back to what Ark said. Sorry, I digress. I think that the biggest hurdle for me, was realizing that I had to keep my head at all times because his was gone. I had to realize that it was not rational to have a marriage with a girlfriend on the side, it was not rational for him to say he wanted to be a good father to OC when the OW had just left her son for my WH and he didn't care about that, it was not rational for him to tell me that the damage was done before the affair because I would get mad at him sometimes, it was not rational to say that he only lied to not hurt me because he thought it was best (hmmm...what is best is just not doing what you are lying about), it was not rational to say that we blew our whole relationship because we had sex with each other (and only each other) before marriage, so God wasn't in our marriage, so therefore it was ok for him to go to OW who was married and who he slept with in the back seat of his car.....ok enough examples. My point is, none of this stuff is rational, but sometimes the WS is so convincing that you actually consider it. You actually wonder if maybe YOU are the foggy one, if you have had an unrealistic sense of what marriage is this whole time and your WS has opened your eyes. At this point, I think it is time to walk away. I know that it was dangerous for me to have any thoughts like these in my mind. I now laugh at the insanity. But I wasn't laughing when I was in it, because I almost got sucked into it. While I am not advocating throwing him out, I AM saying, keep your head, keep your cool, and if it is time for him to go, maybe you could just hand him the trash bags and say "I packed your stuff dear, and I wish you well, and please let me know if you want to work on this marriage because I do still love you." Firmly, nicely, rationally......Just my thoughts- thinking of you. Please let us know what you did.

<small>[ June 14, 2003, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: adgirl48 ]</small>

Lisa you are here, I assume, because you want to save your M, and unless you get a grip on your emotions, they will only end up sabotaging all your hard earned Plan A efforts. Reacting instead of acting usually comes back to bite us in the [censored].

I would hope you had time to read some of this before you give him the trash bags .

ADGIRL 48 , says it nicely , you can hand him his bags nice and firm .

you do not have to sabatoge all tyour PLAN A but you can ask him to leave firm and nice and still show that you love him , but can't allow the disrespect .

ALSO I have been meaning to ask you are you sure he is going to IC , ??? or is he telling you that is where he is ??? YOU said, yourself your family is supportive of you I assume you mean to help you and support the fact that you still intend to save your M .

IF so this is one of the greatest assets , having the love and support of family to vent to , and know that even if they do not agree to save your M they support it cause they love you .

YOU need no one negitive .

WELL I wish you could post to say if you are ok , I will try to check in as much as possiable .

BE prepared for him to act as though you are abandoning him , that would be normal in his abnormal world . YOU are not , you are preserving your love for him and your sanity .

IF IF IF your M should not recover you must rember you still need to recover and you will.

YOU have life , a good one family , children , freinds and inner strength that you may not even know of yet ..

BE strong and healthy . I am checking over the other post to me in a minute .

Lisa, I think you are doing the right thing. Sometimes it takes just being done, for them to see what they are losing.

I plan A'd for about 4m(not knowing it, or that the a was still on) and when I found out the TRUTH, I threw all his stuff out at the doorstep of his work. he had humiliated me publicly for 7m and you know what? I was done with it. I was done with his treatment and I was done with everything. There comes a time that sitting back and taking it *doesn't* work and it *doesn't* earn their respect or love. At that point, you do what you think is most appropriate.

TMCM, I had a handle on my outward emotions. I did what was best. My actions were a figurative cold water in his face. He never really thought he would lose me. He CERTAINLY didn't think I was capable of that. I earned his respect that day. I had already earned his love.

I didn't bother with trash bags, I just piled all his stuff in the back of my car along with suitcases(not in the suitcases, but I did bring them) He was pretty upset when his $$$ custom suits were laying on the ground, when all his coworkers saw what I did. He got over it in a matter of hours because he KNEW he deserved it.

I think you sometimes have to be at the end for them to believe you. If he doesn't come back, and end it with ow, you aren't in any worse shape than you are now. Think of it like that. If he does come back and help to fix the marriage, then you will be in a better place.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"I threw all his stuff out at the doorstep of his work.

TMCM, I had a handle on my outward emotions."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry but your actions proved otherwise, and actions speak louder than words.

Lisa:...it is 4:00am and I just packed WH things in two trash bags..that is all he deserves. I have been plan A'ing and have felt incredibly strong this week. I think telling my parents last week has helped me immensely. I knew he was not coming home tonight and seeing OW for a fact. I acted normal this afternoon when he left for work. Even gave him the benefit of the doubt..WH talked to me about three times tonight and was still able to lie to me like it was nothing. Well I have had it.

Orchid: I did that also, not once but about 5 times. Was able to get it down to a science (under 2 hours). The WS tried to control it by telling me he needed 'weeks' to get out. He didn't. Seeing his stuff in our closet (he mostly took clothes) hurt way tooo much.

1st I packed them nicely in boxes. Next time trash bags (offered to deliver it to OWs - we didn't know where he lived), 2nd time trash bags
out in the garage, 3rd time combo w/trash bags (for underwear) with suits and other clothes on the front porch, 4th time forget the bags sent the stuff straight to his truck (no bags) to the lawn (police came that time), 5th time .....on the lawn in plastic bags.

Why did I do this? Was it an LB? It could have been any letter of the alphabet. The reason why this was done was because I was at my wits end and knew it. This was done for my safety and santity. No thought was being given about how I was feeling and the personal torture our family was going through.

Do I advocate this? Not in all cases but if the BS needs to get the WS stuff out of their home because it hurts to much and has done it as best they can, then yes.

The relief was immense. I didn't realize how tense those items where making me. The WS grumbled to the police about my throwing stuff out. I told the officers why. The officers said that the WS ought to be glad that was all I was doing. Then they arrested him for pushing me.

See it was all a control thing. The WS does not like it when the BS gets control of their lives. This A disease makes the WS think it is allowed (not ok but allowed, there is a difference) allowed to push the BS and family around, control the BS and family and come and go as they please.

Putting the stuff out on the lawn for the neighbors to see was necessary in my case. The WS didn't want the neighbors to know. Know what? They already knew he had moved out, they figured out why, they had heard my crying (while going to the garage - sometimes). I really couldn't hide those red swollen eyes I had for weeks on end. Neighbors are not blind. Neither are children or pets.

Just be careful.

TMCM: Kicking him out and putting all his belongings in a trash bag is not my idea of making the last thing he remembers is your care and thoughtfulness. Sorry, I don't mean to be mean but if the goal is to save your M, then why on Earth would he want to come back to you after that? It will only reinforce his beleif that you were being a phony while you were in Plan A, and that your true colors have finally come out. But if you don't beleive me, go check out ALostSoul's thread The Continuing Saga Of ALS... to see for yourself how well this same strategy worked for him with his WW.

Orchid: Maybe this tactic doesn't work good for WS wives. But if the BS H's need is the same, I understand why it needed to be done. I don't believe it would make the BS a phony in plan A. Why? Because by that time the WS should be in plan B.

JMHO,
L.

Plan B letter was already written and sent...

Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover."

I think that plan A is all about reaching that point of boundary setting that having a WS spouse still in the home while in the face of blatant lies and disrepect that gives the BS the ability to say enough is enough...

Almost all boudaries set are PERCEIVED by the WS as demands...even the WS that states they 'want to reconcile" and keeps such blatant contact ie spending the night with the OW may make the WS cry unfair and mean and controlling if the WS says anything......but the reality is it is the WS who has made the choice NOT the BS.

If the BS gives in to seeing limit setting and boundaries being a LB if the WS calls it one, then the BS will have no choice but to resign themselves to a cake-eater to the point of destructive and in my opinion blatant disrepect of another human being. (abuse to me if you really push me on it...and I am not one to play the abuse card lightly...)...BUT we are only victims of abuse when we allow it in our lives.

Even key words of plan A..are the betrayed spouse NEGOTIATING with the WS to totally seperate.

spending the night with the OW is not a sign or action of negotiation... and when the BS decides to no longer be part of that triangle it has to be OK for them to decide so as well.

THIS (the removal of the WS) does not mean the end of a marriage as in the WS has already completey engaged in activity that pretty much undermines marriage to the core.

THIS does not mean the end of marriage as in 'well you kicked me out'....
It means the end of one persons participation in the whole mess.

Lisa in my opinion sounds in great control...
not over the edge.
I apologize for my lack of tact in my suggestions (OK the toothbrush reference) though meant to only lighten a really hard decision they were just a small stab at humor.

If the issue is the garbage bags...then put it in matching Samsonite luggage...

But Plan A is the exact thing that can bring a person to say enough is enough...have your rollar coaster ride without me...

She has sent the Plan B letter and told him...
the choice is his as to what he does...in some ways it always has been...
but Lisa has choices also....
and if her choices are viewed negatively...well that is the epitomy of irony is it not...

I'm not saying call him names, yell, or anything...I am saying their is no dis-honor in saying,,,
look your actions speak of who you have become and define what you believe in.
and i for one can no longer sit here and watch you do these things...

setting limits is not necessarily just reacting...it can be just acting....

ark <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

THATS the other post I wanted you to read NAIVE "S

I agree with that also , I agree with MB ,,, BUT I do think evey one knows there WS the best and evey situation is very different because of that reason .

WHEN it is time for PLAN B , I think thats where it all gets sticky ,

BY the book works for some and cold slap of reality works for others .

I have to disagree that after doing a good long PLAN A will not be recognized by a ws in time .

AFTER all, even PLAN B by the book , they get hosstile cause there still in FOG !

I also think NAIVE could have been in control of her emtions and still do what she did .

SHE controled the fact that , she had enough and was in control of what and how she wanted to do it .

BACK to LISA , JUST take it a step at a time , if you trough him out , ok now know your next step .

THINK things through and go on your mission to save your M .
Do not get discouraged if you cry and have a melt down that is normal , you are taking control of your life setting BOUNDERIES of what is exceptable and healthy .

In turn you are human , it is depresseing and it is sad and it is a life changing decision.

LET him run to her if thats what he wants , let them have it 24 hrs, a day . REAL life will set in .

He will see the difference , coming and going is fun right now he is sorry when he wants to be when he sees your face after being with OW .

NOW well she ain't part time and she will demand more and expect more . SO let him try it on for size .

I know it hurts , but you will see that with out it in your face you will become stronger .

Although it hurts to know they can be with eachother when ever they want now , it is relief in away knowing you do not have to sit up all night long wondering when or if he is coming home .

As much as we'd like to candy coat the issue, throwing the WS's belongings out on the lawn, or in front of his/her place of work, is NOT acting out of reason but reacting out of anger (even though outwardly you may not have been showing any signs of it), and an angry outburst IS a love buster. And it definitely is NOT part of Plan B.

It may work in some cases (especially when children are involved) but I beleive that the vast majority of cases it tends to backfire on the BS who purportedly is trying to save the M.

Just as we acknowledge that a WS has to live with the consequences of his/her actions, so does the BS also has to live with the consequences of his/her actions and unless s/he is willing to do that, it may be wiser to restrain him/herself from carrying them out.

<small>[ June 14, 2003, 12:17 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>

I acted out of anger AND hurt, betrayal, lies ect; and so on. I WAS in control of my emotions. I did not scream at him, call him names, confront her, or even say anything beyond "You want to publicly humiliate ME!" and it wasn't even in a raised voice.

I am not sure what you consider controlling your emotions. I had a lot I could have done to embarrass me and make me look like a loon. I do have to say that his employees found my actions to be what he deserved. They are glad we are together, but he was a real [censored] for awhile.

Don't you think maybe her H needs to see what little he deserves from her? Maybe for a wake up call?? Truthfully, playing nice and being walked all over doesn't always work. Sometimes you have to get serious.

My recovery is going very well now. No one has to agree with any of my actions. All that matters is that we are getting along well, there is honesty in the relationship and he has RESPECT for me. He told me flat out that he would not have respected me had I gone along with his affair(aka doing nothing).

Sometimes they have to see that the bs is serious. Sometimes that calls for me than just I love you honey and when you have had your fill of fun and sex with someone else, I am here to fufill your needs, lovingly with forgiveness.

Some people need to see they are REALLY going to lose. I have very good control of my emotions, but I do express them when I feel it is appropriate.

Yes, I was willing to live with the consequences of my actions. I was going to divorce him. I was done with being cheated on. I guess you have to get to the point that you believe you are worth more that what you are receiving. My marriage is working NOW because I am receiving love and respect from him. Take either of those out of the equation and I am gone. He ever has another affair of any kind and I am out of here. He can pick up his belongings however he likes because there will be no more talking, discussing, counselling ect;. To me, that is beyond repair and he is aware of it.

11/02- find out that he is having only an EA, he swears to end it, that he was missing something in the marriage. I change, all looks good
3/28/03-I find out everything, Always a PA, been going on since first of sept, I throw him out, get a lawyer. We do alot of soul searching. He gives her up this time for real and recovery starts in April. Things going well so far, major changes on his part,lots of counseling and time together

<small>[ June 14, 2003, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: naive' ]</small>

THIS IS NOT A MISSION TO DETERMINE , witch way PLAN A PLAN B or any other thing is right or wrong .

THIS is about a fellow MB , in a horriable situation , one in witch she needs support and advice for . NOT MORE CONFUSION .

LISA is farely new to MB , unfortunately not new to the PAIN that A's bring .

She knows abou PLAN A and PALN B as do most of us here . THERE is one goal to save the M .

WHAT works for one and not for the other has nothing to do with the GENDER of the person .

I am sure most of us at one point have had contact in our face , some found out and WS just stoped cold turkey .

THATS wonderful , but speaking from experiance , yes PLAN A is hard very hard and I don't think its cuase I am a women .

BUT IN THIS situation , contact is out of control disrespectful .

Doing PLAN A is not to enable to or let them become a cake-eater .

SO she is setting the bounderies and how she does it does not matter JMVHO as long as she does it .

If the M or any M is going to recover IT will .

LETS face it , there are some who have done it by the books to the letter and are D .

THATS it .

I do not think setting bounderies any way you do them is a LB .

I do not want to offend anyone here , I am saying LISA needs guidence and support and understanding .

I found that sometimes people posting to me no matter how nice they put it where bashing me . (I know that you are open to all here but some are more sensitive then others . )

It mad me not want to post at times , I am not saying everyone should just say what we want to here , but the last thing is to be judged that what you did is wrong .

OK she did it I think , she hasn't responded yet with up date , so lets take it from there .

IF she did then lets help her from that point . JMVHO

ORCHID and ARK I am glad you jumped in I have been posting to LISA and encouraged her to reach out some more to others like you guys .

I am only supporting her and she reached out to me reading that our situation are/where VERY VERY simalar .

I am still in early stages and wet behind the ears and I did not do all the "right" things .

I am encourageing her not to ENABLE or to allow ws to be a cake-eater .

I am not TELLING her what to do .

WELL if you know my stroy you know what I mean by all this .

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"Don't you think maybe her H needs to see what little he deserves from her? Maybe for a wake up call?? Truthfully, playing nice and being walked all over doesn't always work. Sometimes you have to get serious. "</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh I agree but then why not serve the WS with separation papers and a Plan B letter instead? It would accomplish the same as kicking him/her out of the house while still retaining control of ones emotions.

<small>[ June 14, 2003, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]</small>